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  #61  
Old 10-23-13, 05:40 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
Sometimes when scouting it's hilarious to hear fans yelling at officials calls when they don't even understand HS rules to begin with.
This kicking down rule has been around for a while, it's not new.
I agree. But in my scenario, does team B get the ball at the 20 or 35?
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  #62  
Old 10-23-13, 06:41 AM
justme1 justme1 is offline
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I go to a lot of games and you always hear it from people. I had a friend that was an official and I picked his brain a lot but you can't explain things to some people and I try not to blame the refs for everything. You have to respect them for being there. Not enough money to get me out there. Thanks for the help.
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  #63  
Old 10-23-13, 08:20 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Not quite....

It is first touching when the kicking team touches the ball beyond the neutral zone before the receiving team touches the ball.

If the receiving team touches the ball, it is considered a muff and the ball is free to be recovered by either team.
Where this one gets crazy is that the receiving team always has the option of taking the ball at the spot of first touching by the kicking team.

Example:

A punt goes downfield and hits a player from the kicking team at the 10 yard line. The receiving team picks up the ball and starts running with it. He then fumbles the ball and the kicking team recovers the fumble.

The receiving team may elect to take the ball at the spot of first touching, in this case it is their ball at the 10 yard line.
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  #64  
Old 10-23-13, 10:49 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
I agree. But in my scenario, does team B get the ball at the 20 or 35?
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad
Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.

A field goal attempt is a scrimmage kick. (commonly referred to a a punt)

Under High School (Federation) rules, anytime a kick (scrimmage or free) crosses the plane of the goal line it is a touch back and by rule the ball is placed at the 20 yard-line.

Question was answered here-

http://goodofficials.files.wordpress...all-rules2.pdf Rule 4.2 -d, dead ball out to 20 unless the initial momentum of the ball did not cause it to cross the goal lin plan.

Rule 4.2
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  #65  
Old 10-23-13, 10:58 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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bb9

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Where this one gets crazy is that the receiving team always has the option of taking the ball at the spot of first touching by the kicking team.

Example:

A punt goes downfield and hits a player from the kicking team at the 10 yard line. The receiving team picks up the ball and starts running with it. He then fumbles the ball and the kicking team recovers the fumble.

The receiving team may elect to take the ball at the spot of first touching, in this case it is their ball at the 10 yard line.
rule 4.2-d, the momentum of the ball is taken into cinsideration even if it's touched ?

His original question has nothing to do with touching, just were the ball is spotted if a FG is missed and the ball crosses the goal line plan?


Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.
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  #66  
Old 10-23-13, 11:03 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
rule 4.2-d, the momentum of the ball is taken into cinsideration even if it's touched ?
These are unrelated. Momentum only applies in regards to the endzone. It is not applicable in the situation I described.
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  #67  
Old 10-23-13, 11:04 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Shortcut

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut View Post
you can view 2013 changes and interpretations here. http://www.nfhs.org/Football/
you can download the 2012 rulebook here. http://goodofficials.files.wordpress...all-rules2.pdf

you have to be an official to download the 2013 version or buy it
THANKS!!
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  #68  
Old 10-23-13, 11:05 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
rule 4.2-d, the momentum of the ball is taken into cinsideration even if it's touched ?

His original question has nothing to do with touching, just were the ball is spotted if a FG is missed and the ball crosses the goal line plan?


Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.
In this scenario it is a touchback. A field goal or a punt that crosses the goal line is a touchback.
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  #69  
Old 10-23-13, 11:05 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Bb(

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
These are unrelated. Momentum only applies in regards to the endzone. It is not applicable in the situation I described.
Yes, agree. He did not imply that the ball was in the field of play or not though, same page as you!
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  #70  
Old 10-23-13, 11:06 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post

His original question has nothing to do with touching, just were the ball is spotted if a FG is missed and the ball crosses the goal line plan?
My answer was not to that question. It was a piggy back on the first touching answer.
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  #71  
Old 10-23-13, 11:08 AM
hoodrat hoodrat is offline
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Is there a specific rule, or a rule in general, that covers the defense calling the offensive signals or making quick gestures in order to draw the offense into a false start?
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  #72  
Old 10-23-13, 11:09 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Unsportsmanlike conduct on defense calling offense's signals. Quick gestures, not really, unless they cross the neutral zone.
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  #73  
Old 10-23-13, 11:18 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Couple quickies:

Does the tackle need to be covered in high school football by a TE or WR?

Is there still a 5 and 15 yard facemask in high school, or is it just 15?

Finally, can someone from the defense stand back by the FG post and knock down a long field goal attempt? I know this is possible in the pros.

thanks!
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  #74  
Old 10-23-13, 11:25 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Couple quickies:

Does the tackle need to be covered in high school football by a TE or WR?

Is there still a 5 and 15 yard facemask in high school, or is it just 15?

Finally, can someone from the defense stand back by the FG post and knock down a long field goal attempt? I know this is possible in the pros.

thanks!
Tackle does not need to be covered. To go out for a pass he needs an eligible number though.

Yes, still 5 and 15 yd facemasks.

As long as he's still in bounds, I am pretty sure that is legal.
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  #75  
Old 10-23-13, 11:37 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Tackle does not need to be covered. To go out for a pass he needs an eligible number though.
this was the one i was most confused over.

One more.

Play action pass play. Running back gets tackled going into the line. Ref blows whistle as QB releases ball, not realizing the handoff was a fake. Pass complete for touchdown after the whistle.

TD? Do over from the original line of scrimmage?
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  #76  
Old 10-23-13, 11:43 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Offense can either take the ball at the spot where they possessed the ball when the whistle blew and it would be the next down or they can replay the previous down.

If the ball was already released, that changes the situation. I believe it would just be a replay of the down in that case.

Anything that happens after the whistle means nothing.
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  #77  
Old 10-23-13, 12:13 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Finally, can someone from the defense stand back by the FG post and knock down a long field goal attempt?
Yes they can.

If the ball caroms off the player and passes through the uprights, the field goal is good.
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  #78  
Old 10-23-13, 12:26 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Have you ever seen that actually happen? I've never even seen someone think about attempting it.
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  #79  
Old 10-23-13, 12:36 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Have you ever seen that actually happen? I've never even seen someone think about attempting it.
At the Mooney/Canisius game last week, Canisius was down 9-7 and tried a 51 yard FG at the end for the win. My dad was screaming they should get somone back there just in case. The kid was hitting FG's from 45+ yards during warmups and halftime. I figured it would have been perfectly legal to put someone back there, but wasn't sure. It's basically a punt, so it seemed to make sense.


Fortunately for Mooney, it was JUST short.
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  #80  
Old 10-23-13, 07:49 PM
buckeyehoops buckeyehoops is offline
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You have a thankless job...I attend the local high school games and Ohio State games. I had NFL season tickets for 33 years, dropped them when I retired from my school, keeping just the Buckeye tickets.

Officiating this year has been the worst I have ever seen. A couple weeks ago the officials gave the visiting school a time out at 6:37 to go in the third quarter; second time out at 01:39 in the fourth quarter; at 00:52 to play the third and final time out. Yet at 00:09 to play, a fourth time out was granted and they put 09 seconds back on the clock and announced again that it was the third and final time out. I realize mistakes can happen. But I have found myself leaving games this year mumbling to myself at the number of screw ups that I have seen this year.

If I wanted to followup constructively with someone on the state level, is there a web link I can go too? I am sure that officials are evaluated or graded as I have some friends that have been high school refs. But some of the older refs don't seem to be able to keep up with the game.

I have coached basketball but not football but have been going to high school, NCAA, and NFL games for years.
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  #81  
Old 10-23-13, 08:09 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyehoops View Post

If I wanted to followup constructively with someone on the state level, is there a web link I can go too?
With all due respect, leave this up to the coaches and the AD's.

The folks in Columbus simply do not have the time to address comments and criticisms from the general public.
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  #82  
Old 10-23-13, 08:37 PM
buckeyehoops buckeyehoops is offline
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OHSAA Contact link

There is a web link with a lot of contact information should I elect to go there.

http://www.ohsaa.org/general/about/contact.htm

Ignoring an issue does not make it better. I've seen officials losing control of the games because of very poor officiating. I will elect to do a letter, I am guessing I will get a polite reply and it will go into their file 13 shredder.

With arthritis there would be no way I could keep up with today's athletes. What I have seen there have been a couple refs that can no longer keep up with the athletes. Ignoring this is not going to make it better. Coming from an education background I know of several avenues to take. I saw this post and thought I would see how best to address it. Ignoring it is not in my DNA.
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  #83  
Old 10-23-13, 09:21 PM
slainte slainte is offline
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I meant to ask this two weeks ago.

Thurgood Marshall was flagged for "aiding the runner". I havn't seen this called in eons. If it is a penalty, why isn't it called more? It seems to happen quite a bit on the goal line.
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  #84  
Old 10-24-13, 09:49 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyehoops View Post
There is a web link with a lot of contact information should I elect to go there.

http://www.ohsaa.org/general/about/contact.htm

Ignoring an issue does not make it better. I've seen officials losing control of the games because of very poor officiating. I will elect to do a letter, I am guessing I will get a polite reply and it will go into their file 13 shredder.

With arthritis there would be no way I could keep up with today's athletes. What I have seen there have been a couple refs that can no longer keep up with the athletes. Ignoring this is not going to make it better. Coming from an education background I know of several avenues to take. I saw this post and thought I would see how best to address it. Ignoring it is not in my DNA.

Your letter will be just another of the hundreds that they receive. Most of them are classic gripes from uninformed biased fans. The others are gripes from fans about rules that are unfounded. (as proved by many assumptions in this thread)

In this day of mass communication, if a problem is that serious with a crew, Columbus has a video clip in hand on Saturday morning via Hudl or some other avenue. The coaches an AD's are continuously providing feedback to the powers that be regarding officiating (as they should).

While your letter may be ignored, the situation isn't being ignored.
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  #85  
Old 10-24-13, 09:53 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slainte View Post
I meant to ask this two weeks ago.

Thurgood Marshall was flagged for "aiding the runner". I havn't seen this called in eons. If it is a penalty, why isn't it called more? It seems to happen quite a bit on the goal line.
Pushing the pile is legal.

This is a classic example of a rule and an interpretation that is given to officials during their ongoing training and rules meetings. This subject comes up every year, and every year you will have people claiming that pushing the pile is illegal.

It all comes down to the judgment of the covering officials. Just like any other foul.
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  #86  
Old 10-24-13, 10:12 AM
Tippy Canoe Tippy Canoe is offline
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Why is it that there is 2 speeds for getting the ball set and ready to play?

It seems that the crew goes into hyper drive when less than 2 minutes in either half.

Just sayin....
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  #87  
Old 10-24-13, 10:31 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy Canoe View Post
Why is it that there is 2 speeds for getting the ball set and ready to play?

It seems that the crew goes into hyper drive when less than 2 minutes in either half.

Just sayin....
Are you saying you'd be ok with a crew taking it's time when your team is trying to run the 2 minute drill?

Crews are expected within reason to adjust to the pace of play.
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  #88  
Old 10-24-13, 11:11 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Question. Fitch in killing clock mode with Massillon needing the ball back. Fitch player gets injured on 3rd down. Clock stops. Player is tended to and leaves the field. Fitch lines up to punt, ref re-starts clock and allows 20 more seconds to run off.

So I assume the rule is an injury does not stop the "game clock", but just want to confirm that because I thought it did - at least for the offensive team. Obviously "fake" injuries should not help the defensive team.
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  #89  
Old 10-24-13, 11:22 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Question. Fitch in killing clock mode with Massillon needing the ball back. Fitch player gets injured on 3rd down. Clock stops. Player is tended to and leaves the field. Fitch lines up to punt, ref re-starts clock and allows 20 more seconds to run off.

So I assume the rule is an injury does not stop the "game clock", but just want to confirm that because I thought it did - at least for the offensive team. Obviously "fake" injuries should not help the defensive team.
Fake or not, the Referee in this situation has the discretion to and should withold the starting of the clock until the snap.
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  #90  
Old 10-24-13, 11:42 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Interesting. Sigh. A minute to go and during a furious comeback, so I would agree. Ultimately time expired on 3rd and goal. But, key word "discretion" so thems the breaks I guess.

Thank you.
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