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  #31  
Old 10-22-13, 08:45 AM
GRPride86 GRPride86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Roughing the passer and roughing the kicker are the only two automatic first downs. Pass interference was until this year but now is changed to 15 yards only.
What about roughing the snapper or holder?
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  #32  
Old 10-22-13, 11:16 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Roughing the passer and roughing the kicker are the only two automatic first downs. Pass interference was until this year but now is changed to 15 yards only.
Roughing the snapper and the holder result in automatic first downs as well.

Edit.... oops !! sorry GR, didn't see your post.

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-22-13 at 11:27 AM.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-13, 11:27 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
. Would be nice for the OHSAA to give a definite answer to this. I think right now the common thought (at least in the northeast part of the state), it's more of an administrative issue rather than a game issue. Interesting to hear what the rest of the state is doing.
Four years ago, the Assistant Commissioner in charge of football officiating sent out an e-mail to all the officials in the state. He advised that teams are not to be penalized for bands playing during a live ball or when the ball is about to be live.

The officials were instructed, when the opportunity arises, to seek help from the game administrators with regards to bands playing. Games were not to be stopped or delayed for this.

If the problem was not corrected, then the Referee or crew chief was instructed to contact Columbus by a game report or e-mail to advise on the situation.

Columbus would take the matter up from there.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-13, 11:38 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Four years ago, the Assistant Commissioner in charge of football officiating sent out an e-mail to all the officials in the state. He advised that teams are not to be penalized for bands playing during a live ball or when the ball is about to be live.

The officials were instructed, when the opportunity arises, to seek help from the game administrators with regards to bands playing. Games were not to be stopped or delayed for this.

If the problem was not corrected, then the Referee or crew chief was instructed to contact Columbus by a game report or e-mail to advise on the situation.

Columbus would take the matter up from there.


I will take a noise make to football game.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-13, 11:44 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Again another example of OHSAA not thinking this through, and taking the easy way out

OHSSA does not let general public from bring in a noise make or Vuvuzela

What if a high school does not have a band..
Could I create band and bring in 20 noise make or Vuvuzela ??
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  #36  
Old 10-22-13, 11:45 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Yes, the horse collar rule is very specific. The runner actually has to be tackled and he has to come down backward. The tell tale sign of a horse collar is seeing the knees buckle. Remember, it has to be a tackle. Just grabbing it doesn't mean it's a horse collar. Also, it has to be by the equipment, not the jersey.


It's not limited to grabbing the equipment from behind.

If the shoulder pads or jersey is grabbed from the "inside back or side collar" of the runner and he is pulled (backwards or sidewards) to the ground, a Horse-collar foul has been committed.

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-22-13 at 11:55 AM.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-13, 11:46 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
I will take a noise make to football game.
and if the official is doing his/her job, they will not penalize your team.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-13, 12:08 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerman1616 View Post
Its a touchback if the kick crosses the goal line. But this isnt a new rule. BTW that goes for all field goal attempts, not just ones inside the 20.
Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-13, 12:14 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.
A field goal attempt is a scrimmage kick. (commonly referred to a a punt)

Under High School (Federation) rules, anytime a kick (scrimmage or free) crosses the plane of the goal line it is a touch back and by rule the ball is placed at the 20 yard-line.
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  #40  
Old 10-22-13, 12:16 PM
BALLBOY1968 BALLBOY1968 is offline
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Here is the play:

Team A has ball up 21-20 4th and 5 from own 20, 4th quarter clock running
:34 play clock at :02 Team A false starts. Team B is out of time outs. So now there is :33 on clock. So after marking off the penalty and setting play clock to :25 you are going to wind the clock? Seems like a bad rule to me to wind the clock.
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  #41  
Old 10-22-13, 12:19 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BALLBOY1968 View Post
Here is the play:

Team A has ball up 21-20 4th and 5 from own 20, 4th quarter clock running
:34 play clock at :02 Team A false starts. Team B is out of time outs. So now there is :33 on clock. So after marking off the penalty and setting play clock to :25 you are going to wind the clock? Seems like a bad rule to me to wind the clock.
As someone stated prior, the Referee has the discretion to, and should start the clock on the snap. This avoids the A gaining an advantage from fouling.

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-22-13 at 01:31 PM.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-13, 01:43 PM
BALLBOY1968 BALLBOY1968 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
As someone stated prior, the Referee has the discretion to, and should start the clock on the snap. This avoids the A gaining an advantage from fouling.
But shouldn't it just be a rule that if the offense commits a penalty the clocks stops until the snap at all times? At the lower levels the refs run the clock on everything, even seen a ref wind the clock in a fresh game after an incomplete pass. Make it a rule so everyone knows when the clock will start not jsut on the refs decision. What if that was the first penalty of the game for Team A. How does ef know if it was intentional or not? Just throwing it out there.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-13, 03:57 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BALLBOY1968 View Post
But shouldn't it just be a rule that if the offense commits a penalty the clocks stops until the snap at all times? At the lower levels the refs run the clock on everything, even seen a ref wind the clock in a fresh game after an incomplete pass. Make it a rule so everyone knows when the clock will start not jsut on the refs decision. What if that was the first penalty of the game for Team A. How does ef know if it was intentional or not? Just throwing it out there.
The rules provide that the status of the clock prior to any dead ball foul is the barometer for what the officials do to the clock after the penalty is enforced. It works well and keeps the game moving. The rules makers do not want the game to become one where the clock is stagnant. The game has evolved over the years that now we have a pass/run game versus a run/pass game. Pass/run gives you the potential for more incomplete passes and more clock stoppages. Killing the clock till the snap after all fouls on A is not what the game needs. (Heck, even the NFL changed their rules so that the clock continues to run on plays that end up out of bounds in the last 2 minutes in the first half and the last 5 minutes of the second half)

For the games you see at lower levels where the refs are winding the clock incorrectly, you are either looking at a blowout situation or an official who is there to get a check and get out.

For the situation where the first foul of the game on A is under 30 seconds remaining while they have the ball and the lead........

Bad timing on their part

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-22-13 at 04:07 PM.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-13, 05:01 PM
THUNDER7 THUNDER7 is offline
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Kick offs

Ref, I always thought if a kick off return man touches (or backs into) the end-zone with the ball on a kick-off in Ohio High School it is a touch back. Found out this year it does not matter if return man is in the end zone, what matters is the ball has to break the plane of the end zone. Is this correct? Is this new this year or changed recently?
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  #45  
Old 10-22-13, 05:19 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDER7 View Post
Ref, I always thought if a kick off return man touches (or backs into) the end-zone with the ball on a kick-off in Ohio High School it is a touch back. Found out this year it does not matter if return man is in the end zone, what matters is the ball has to break the plane of the end zone. Is this correct? Is this new this year or changed recently?
It's always been the position of the ball in relation to the plane of the goal line, not the feet.
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  #46  
Old 10-22-13, 05:28 PM
Lynus24 Lynus24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDER7 View Post
Ref, I always thought if a kick off return man touches (or backs into) the end-zone with the ball on a kick-off in Ohio High School it is a touch back. Found out this year it does not matter if return man is in the end zone, what matters is the ball has to break the plane of the end zone. Is this correct? Is this new this year or changed recently?
i've got one to add to this....

Why....if a punt/kick returner attempts to catch a ball in the field of play, and the ball bounces off his hands or shoulder pads, then crosses the goal line...is that still a touch back?

One would think this is a "live" ball....I've seen it happen to my team twice in the last 5 years. Both times we recovered in the end zone. Both times the opposing team got possession on the 20.

Goofy rule that needs changed.
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  #47  
Old 10-22-13, 06:39 PM
justme1 justme1 is offline
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If you loose your helmet I know you must leave for one play but is there more to the rule? I thought I read where you have to stop and not participate in the rest of the play.
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  #48  
Old 10-22-13, 07:00 PM
Tom.OH Tom.OH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
A field goal attempt is a scrimmage kick. (commonly referred to a a punt)

Under High School (Federation) rules, anytime a kick (scrimmage or free) crosses the plane of the goal line it is a touch back and by rule the ball is placed at the 20 yard-line.
Also if the FG is downed on the 1 yard line it is the receivers ball at that spot.
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  #49  
Old 10-22-13, 07:29 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynus24 View Post
i've got one to add to this....

Why....if a punt/kick returner attempts to catch a ball in the field of play, and the ball bounces off his hands or shoulder pads, then crosses the goal line...is that still a touch back?

One would think this is a "live" ball....I've seen it happen to my team twice in the last 5 years. Both times we recovered in the end zone. Both times the opposing team got possession on the 20.

Goofy rule that needs changed.
A kick ends when a player gains possession of the ball. Therefore a ball crossing the goal line that was not possessed is still by definition a kick. The rule states any kick that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback.
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  #50  
Old 10-22-13, 07:30 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme1 View Post
If you loose your helmet I know you must leave for one play but is there more to the rule? I thought I read where you have to stop and not participate in the rest of the play.
That is correct. And nobody is allowed to hit/block a player whose helmet came off. If the ball carrier's helmet comes off the ball is dead at that spot.
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  #51  
Old 10-22-13, 07:31 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Four years ago, the Assistant Commissioner in charge of football officiating sent out an e-mail to all the officials in the state. He advised that teams are not to be penalized for bands playing during a live ball or when the ball is about to be live.

The officials were instructed, when the opportunity arises, to seek help from the game administrators with regards to bands playing. Games were not to be stopped or delayed for this.

If the problem was not corrected, then the Referee or crew chief was instructed to contact Columbus by a game report or e-mail to advise on the situation.

Columbus would take the matter up from there.
I vaguely remember that now that you mention it.
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  #52  
Old 10-22-13, 07:32 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
It's not limited to grabbing the equipment from behind.

If the shoulder pads or jersey is grabbed from the "inside back or side collar" of the runner and he is pulled (backwards or sidewards) to the ground, a Horse-collar foul has been committed.
That is correct, I forgot the specifics before posting.
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  #53  
Old 10-22-13, 07:39 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.OH View Post
Also if the FG is downed on the 1 yard line it is the receivers ball at that spot.
If you use the scrimmage kick terminology you don't muddy the waters when trying to explain that the "FGA/FGM" and a "punt" are scrimmage kicks.
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  #54  
Old 10-22-13, 07:41 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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Here's one that gets to the crux of many of these biscuits: where can one find a downloadable copy of the NFHS rulebook?
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  #55  
Old 10-22-13, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Filter View Post
Here's one that gets to the crux of many of these biscuits: where can one find a downloadable copy of the NFHS rulebook?
you can view 2013 changes and interpretations here. http://www.nfhs.org/Football/
you can download the 2012 rulebook here. http://goodofficials.files.wordpress...all-rules2.pdf

you have to be an official to download the 2013 version or buy it

Last edited by shortcut; 10-22-13 at 08:23 PM.
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  #56  
Old 10-22-13, 09:16 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Funny I guess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Wait a minute. So if team A attempts a FG from the 35 yard line and misses it, but the ball crosses the goal line, Team B gets the ball at the 20 instead of the 35??? I have never heard of such a thing. In college and NFL, if a FG is missed, the other team gets the ball from the spot of the kick.
Sometimes when scouting it's hilarious to hear fans yelling at officials calls when they don't even understand HS rules to begin with.
This kicking down rule has been around for a while, it's not new.
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  #57  
Old 10-22-13, 09:17 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
If he's standing it's hurdling, if not it's not hurdling. Head position doesn't matter.
Thanks for the reminder~!
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  #58  
Old 10-22-13, 09:25 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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If the motion of the ball results in the end zone still dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynus24 View Post
i've got one to add to this....

Why....if a punt/kick returner attempts to catch a ball in the field of play, and the ball bounces off his hands or shoulder pads, then crosses the goal line...is that still a touch back?

One would think this is a "live" ball....I've seen it happen to my team twice in the last 5 years. Both times we recovered in the end zone. Both times the opposing team got possession on the 20.

Goofy rule that needs changed.
Where it was touched is :first touching" and could it recoverable by the other team as a muffed in the field of play ball
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  #59  
Old 10-22-13, 10:01 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
That is correct. And nobody is allowed to hit/block a player whose helmet came off. If the ball carrier's helmet comes off the ball is dead at that spot.
Seen this happen in a Mooney/Harding game a few years ago. Braylon Heard lost his helmet on his way to a long touchdown run. Play was called dead at the spot where his helmet came off. Crowd wasn't happy, but its for the safety of the ball carrier.
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  #60  
Old 10-22-13, 10:48 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
Where it was touched is :first touching" and could it recoverable by the other team as a muffed in the field of play ball
Not quite....

It is first touching when the kicking team touches the ball beyond the neutral zone before the receiving team touches the ball.

If the receiving team touches the ball, it is considered a muff and the ball is free to be recovered by either team.
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