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  #1  
Old 04-07-17, 10:45 AM
OEBNorthGM OEBNorthGM is online now
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OHSAA Vote

What is everyone's thoughts on the impending vote to push the high school baseball season two weeks further into June?

I've gotten mixed reviews from the handful of HS coaches I have talked to but it sounds like it's got some serious support.

I know many don't care about summer ball, but this will really impact the summer season for high school aged kids. We already get pressured to end as early as possible in July due to football. Typically we have 8-9 weekends to work with it. If this passes, looking at most 7 weekends next summer, with the more likely scenario of 6 due to football.

I am sure tournament directors will hate to hear this.
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  #2  
Old 04-07-17, 10:55 AM
MERKLE MERKLE is offline
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It would always be nice to play in better weather, but this might put baseball in the same place high school soccer is. Many of the high level club teams don't let their kids play for their high school teams. Better players will be forced to choose their year round travel programs vs local hs team.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-17, 10:56 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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My initial reaction is that I'd almost rather see HS baseball in the fall.


I think that we just need to accept that Ohio weather stinks for baseball. Maybe find ways to build and share turf fields between schools up here.
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  #4  
Old 04-07-17, 11:00 AM
Baseballfan20 Baseballfan20 is offline
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I like 1 extra week, 2 might be to much. I also think the tournament could be completed faster then it is. I know they want rain dates built in but sectionals is Monday Wednesday then a full week off till the next Wednesday. Baseball is not a 2 games a week matter.
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  #5  
Old 04-07-17, 11:01 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKLE View Post
It would always be nice to play in better weather, but this might put baseball in the same place high school soccer is. Many of the high level club teams don't let their kids play for their high school teams. Better players will be forced to choose their year round travel programs vs local hs team.
My kids are third generation students at the school they represent, but I'd have to consider the same.

They'll be seen by coaches and scouts many times a summer. They'll be lucky to be seen before the playoffs by anyone other than the active local PBR guy in school ball.
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  #6  
Old 04-07-17, 11:03 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Baseballfan20 View Post
I like 1 extra week, 2 might be to much. I also think the tournament could be completed faster then it is. I know they want rain dates built in but sectionals is Monday Wednesday then a full week off till the next Wednesday. Baseball is not a 2 games a week matter.
More than 2 games a week will surely change playoff outcomes, especially for smaller schools. Is that what we want ? We don't want to back off of pitch limits, right ?

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 04-07-17 at 11:24 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-17, 11:19 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I would like to see baseball played in warm weather but I think this is a mistake.
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  #8  
Old 04-07-17, 11:28 AM
OEBNorthGM OEBNorthGM is online now
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Is there a way to make football not begin until say August 1st? Or does it simply become a domino affect where it drags into basketball season? From a summer ball perspective, it would be a nice compromise to allow HS to go into June as this vote proposes, and then let summer ball go until end of July. If that did occur, I'd feel for the multi-sport athletes who never get a break. I think in those situations you will see fewer kids doing several sports and they will pick one or two. I'm not sure there is a good solution other than how it's currently set up.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-17, 12:30 PM
Baseballfan20 Baseballfan20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
More than 2 games a week will surely change playoff outcomes, especially for smaller schools. Is that what we want ? We don't want to back off of pitch limits, right ?
Yes, this is exactly what we want. Who has the best TEAM not the best 2 arms in the tournament. The pitch count could make a difference in the outcome of the tournament this year. No more throw 7 complete on Wednesday and then close out the the last 3 of the District on friday.

This would also make the bye something that you actually could get an advantage for. I know teams that dont take the bye just to play those two games knowing most likely they will be playing a very low seed twice the first week.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-17, 12:37 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEBNorthGM View Post
Is there a way to make football not begin until say August 1st? Or does it simply become a domino affect where it drags into basketball season? From a summer ball perspective, it would be a nice compromise to allow HS to go into June as this vote proposes, and then let summer ball go until end of July. If that did occur, I'd feel for the multi-sport athletes who never get a break. I think in those situations you will see fewer kids doing several sports and they will pick one or two. I'm not sure there is a good solution other than how it's currently set up.
A good thought, but HS football coaches are jealous masters. There is no club equivalent, so the playing time that they control is the key to a much larger pool of college money available to boys. Football generates far more revenue than anything else, for schools and the OHSAA both. The football coaches have done much to expand their season in recent years, and I don't see them changing that approach.
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  #11  
Old 04-07-17, 12:42 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Baseballfan20 View Post
Yes, this is exactly what we want. Who has the best TEAM not the best 2 arms in the tournament. The pitch count could make a difference in the outcome of the tournament this year. No more throw 7 complete on Wednesday and then close out the the last 3 of the District on friday.

This would also make the bye something that you actually could get an advantage for. I know teams that dont take the bye just to play those two games knowing most likely they will be playing a very low seed twice the first week.
Well, I get it, but I think that for every one like you, there will be another that wants to see the emphasis on a few strong pitchers.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-17, 12:47 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Football season is actually starting earlier this year. It will start on Monday, July 31st this year.
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  #13  
Old 04-07-17, 01:08 PM
bsb1817 bsb1817 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEBNorthGM View Post
What is everyone's thoughts on the impending vote to push the high school baseball season two weeks further into June?

I've gotten mixed reviews from the handful of HS coaches I have talked to but it sounds like it's got some serious support.

I know many don't care about summer ball, but this will really impact the summer season for high school aged kids. We already get pressured to end as early as possible in July due to football. Typically we have 8-9 weekends to work with it. If this passes, looking at most 7 weekends next summer, with the more likely scenario of 6 due to football.

I am sure tournament directors will hate to hear this.
Mark my words, if this gets passed, you will see a significant number of players not play high school baseball. The majority of high school programs already do very, very little in regards to getting eyes on their players for colleges and train and develop players. You will see many kids that would rather take April to get big and strong, and start their travel seasons in mid may rather than waste away in high school ball and miss a couple VALUABLE weeks of exposure.
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  #14  
Old 04-07-17, 01:09 PM
Baseballfan20 Baseballfan20 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Well, I get it, but I think that for every one like you, there will be another that wants to see the emphasis on a few strong pitchers.
They only want to see that because that is what they have.
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  #15  
Old 04-07-17, 01:26 PM
Baseballfan20 Baseballfan20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsb1817 View Post
Mark my words, if this gets passed, you will see a significant number of players not play high school baseball. The majority of high school programs already do very, very little in regards to getting eyes on their players for colleges and train and develop players. You will see many kids that would rather take April to get big and strong, and start their travel seasons in mid may rather than waste away in high school ball and miss a couple VALUABLE weeks of exposure.
What if those valuable weeks of exposure were in the state tournament rather than a typical summer ball tournament. Sure coaches see more talent in one spot in a summer tournament, but pitching or hitting on a random Thursday or Friday in the summer is different then playing in a regional or state final. Im sure coaches would love to see the guys they are going after perform under that kind of pressure.

College conference tournaments are around the last weekend in May. So most coaches are still with their teams till then. That means that district final teams might miss one tournament, Regional teams 2, and State teams 3. I think if you asked the players they would take the opportunity to play for a title over playing a summer ball tournament.

If a player is that worried about exposure, I would assume that him and his parents have hit the showcases and put their name out there. I don't see a college coach having the convo with the kid. "Really wish you weren't playing for a state title so I could watch you play in XYZ tournament this weekend."
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  #16  
Old 04-07-17, 01:39 PM
bsb1817 bsb1817 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseballfan20 View Post
What if those valuable weeks of exposure were in the state tournament rather than a typical summer ball tournament. Sure coaches see more talent in one spot in a summer tournament, but pitching or hitting on a random Thursday or Friday in the summer is different then playing in a regional or state final. Im sure coaches would love to see the guys they are going after perform under that kind of pressure.

College conference tournaments are around the last weekend in May. So most coaches are still with their teams till then. That means that district final teams might miss one tournament, Regional teams 2, and State teams 3. I think if you asked the players they would take the opportunity to play for a title over playing a summer ball tournament.

If a player is that worried about exposure, I would assume that him and his parents have hit the showcases and put their name out there. I don't see a college coach having the convo with the kid. "Really wish you weren't playing for a state title so I could watch you play in XYZ tournament this weekend."
If colleges wanted to see the state tournament, they would already go...The fact is, they could go to the Cincy Flames TOC and see 40 uncommitted arms throwing 85+ in 1 weekend. If you go to the state tournament, you MIGHT see 5-6 uncommitted guys throwing that hard, and the lineups from top to bottom do not compare to high level summer ball teams.

The fact is what we have right now is working. Weather in Ohio will never be better than what it is.
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  #17  
Old 04-07-17, 02:02 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Baseballfan20 View Post
They only want to see that because that is what they have.
Oh, no doubt.

The timing in the playoff week of when teams meet will have more to do with outcomes in the smaller schools if they play 3. Even in D1, we faced a team one year that had faced a terrible team in their first game of the week and that game had a softball score. They saved their ace for the second game against us, and knocked us out with our #2 in a 4-3 game. Their ace won the third game in the following week, and the got clobbered in their fourth game.

Maybe it's more fair to start a "losers' bracket" for teams with sub-.500 regular season records right from the beginning if we play 3 games a week and start with all teams in the OHSAA tourney ?
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  #18  
Old 04-07-17, 02:09 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by bsb1817 View Post
If colleges wanted to see the state tournament, they would already go...The fact is, they could go to the Cincy Flames TOC and see 40 uncommitted arms throwing 85+ in 1 weekend. If you go to the state tournament, you MIGHT see 5-6 uncommitted guys throwing that hard, and the lineups from top to bottom do not compare to high level summer ball teams.

The fact is what we have right now is working. Weather in Ohio will never be better than what it is.
Yeah, given the fact that one can't have everything here in Ohio, I can't imagine a scenario in which playing a complete HS schedule will EVER be the top priority for the top players. The wins can be just as gratifying in the moment, or even more so, when playing with the kids you've gone to school with for years, but the top priority for those that hope to play seriously beyond HS is always going to be summer ball. It just has to be that way.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-17, 02:30 PM
OEBNorthGM OEBNorthGM is online now
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Start game play as early as the weather allows in March. We know we get an early spring sometimes so take advantage of that. Would like to see more teams play on Sunday's as well.
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  #20  
Old 04-07-17, 03:34 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Personally, I enjoy HS games much more than Summer team games. I've always gone to a handful of HS games every year, whether I knew someone on the team or not. For travel ball, it's simply the team that my son plays on.

With that said, I want the OHSAA to do whatever they can to improve HS baseball and it's participation. IMO, this is not going to help. We have a good dividing line between HS baseball and Summer baseball right now. Unfortunately, if that line is blurred, more kids are going to choose their Summer team over their HS team.

Talking to someone earlier today, maybe it's time to create more HS sized baseball fields with turf to get more games in during those wet days in the Spring. These fields would not require large seating areas. Put a complex near a Highway and rent them out during the Spring season to HS teams first and to the younger kids that are just starting to play 60/90. After reading what it costs to rent out Kent State's field, someone could generate a nice little profit and help get our HS teams get a few more games in during the season.
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  #21  
Old 04-07-17, 07:50 PM
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Have a nephew that didn't play travel ball untill junior year of high school. Went to a couple of showcases before his senior year, his high school coach recommended him to a few college coaches, they came and watched his school games, liked what they saw. He is now choosing among three colleges that all offered him some scholarship money. His high school coach helped him, travel ball coach only tried to help his son.
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  #22  
Old 04-07-17, 11:44 PM
bsb1817 bsb1817 is offline
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Originally Posted by cone View Post
Have a nephew that didn't play travel ball untill junior year of high school. Went to a couple of showcases before his senior year, his high school coach recommended him to a few college coaches, they came and watched his school games, liked what they saw. He is now choosing among three colleges that all offered him some scholarship money. His high school coach helped him, travel ball coach only tried to help his son.
Sure, but this is an unlikely situation. Also, what if your nephew was a potential division 1 caliber player but is choosing between division 2, 3, juco, or naia level schools simply because he wasn't in the right situation for summer ball. The fact is, and every single college coach in this country will agree with me, that there are more college coaches out at summer games than HS games, therefore that is where the top players will pick if they are forced to pick between the two.

Your nephew may have received a couple of offers, but who is to say he couldnt ahve gotten more money to those schools, more offers at higher levels, or bettered him game even more if he played for a legitimate summer organization like Bo Jackson, Brownlee, Warhawks, OEB, CBC, Midland, Classics etc...Those organizations, as well as others, constantly churn out players who get significantly better year to year and receive a number of offers. for 98% of high school programs, most coaches tell their kids to swing down, funnel the ball, and come to a balance point. Sure wouldn't be where I want my son to be playing if he had to choose between summer or high school. Fact is you can choose what summer team you play for, but unless you shell out the money to move or pay for private school, you cannot pick your high school.
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  #23  
Old 04-08-17, 08:47 AM
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A good showcase can help get you evaluated and save alot of money. There are alot of good high school coaches out there that help their players and teach them how to play the game. To many summer ball coaches don't know what their doing. I saw one coach call for a suicide squeeze on four straight pitches to the same batter.
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  #24  
Old 04-08-17, 09:15 AM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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I can remember when my son made the high school varsity team as a freshman. He was so excited. Playing the first time for your school, new team mates, school pride, getting the opportunity to contribute to the team at such a young age. Now that he's a senior, so much has changed. He still loves to compete, but refers to high school baseball as spring training for summer travel baseball. Much of that has to do with the fact that seasons of higher level travel baseball have proven to be a much more challenging experience, garnering tangible results. College offers came from his summer tournament/showcase efforts, rather than anything high school offered. Sure the weather is better during travel baseball, but so is the level of competition, tournament facilities and fields, and opportunities for the serious ball player to be seen. I can honestly say that the high school experience literally did nothing to promote the 3-4 kids who ultimately have moved on to play college baseball the past season. Sadly, one of the long time assistant coaches literally couldn't remember which colleges two of the graduated senior captains on last year's squad currently played. But we have found, a least at our high school that is the norm, not the exception. If you want to see your kid get the opportunity to be evaluated properly by college recruiters, you as a parent need to become more pro active, and assuming your son/daughter has the talent, hook them up with the right travel baseball organization who can facilitate that process. At this rate, considering how many games high schools lose to spring weather, I can see the possibility of baseball fading away as we currently know it. Interest declining, too many cancellations, coaches not interested in making up games, just to name a few. It's sad, but ultimately possibly true.
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  #25  
Old 04-08-17, 09:36 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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not sure why anyone would waste their time debating with someone that seems to form his opinion based upon a few anecdotal events and tales of outlier-type situations.....but I'll put this out there...

With the possible exception of a few private high schools that are able to gather talent to the extreme, there is no way that a high school can consistently field a team that will have the majority of it's players capable and worthy of playing at the next level(s). Several travel clubs around each large city in Ohio do this consistently, just as in the surrounding states. The rosters of these private teams at 17u, top to bottom, are laughably better than all but a few HS teams.

When the college season is in full swing and their coaches are busy 6 days a week, the pro scouts are at their games watching them, and the HS season is being played as well. When the summer tourneys are being played - great, average, and awful ones - then the college coaches and the scouts have time to check out young players.....and also be with their families. Where do we think that these coaches and scouts want to go to make the best use of limited time........?

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 04-08-17 at 10:21 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-11-17, 12:26 AM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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I am torn by this vote. If you are an elite multi sport athlete is already very difficult to finish your winter season and start your spring season in baseball or softball for that matter. The weather is horrible for baseball in the spring in Ohio and the further north you go, the worse it is. So moving the season into June would be a good thing for those reasons. However, summer club season is effectively over by the third or fourth week in July whether you have football players or not. The showcases and elite tourneys are a big deal. I think Indiana is already like this. Does anyone know how our neighbors to the west deal with it?
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  #27  
Old 04-12-17, 02:01 PM
ksu315 ksu315 is online now
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How about this. We all can agree football drives the OHSAA. Baseball is a $$ drag and weather stinks. OHSAA drop baseball all together. Don't sponsor it. Travel teams can take it over start games, leagues, tourneys mid April or May1st to mid end July. Gives travel teams 8-12 weeks before football. Speaking of football OHSAA should allow 2 weeks of spring football Mid march to mid-April. This would also allow basketball/baseball guys to play spring AAU in April live periods. High school baseball is a joke due to weather, poor fields, spend half the time practicing inside plus, no colleges even sniff high school recruiting unless you are fortunate to make it to regionals.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:03 AM
bsb1817 bsb1817 is offline
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How about this. We all can agree football drives the OHSAA. Baseball is a $$ drag and weather stinks. OHSAA drop baseball all together. Don't sponsor it. Travel teams can take it over start games, leagues, tourneys mid April or May1st to mid end July. Gives travel teams 8-12 weeks before football. Speaking of football OHSAA should allow 2 weeks of spring football Mid march to mid-April. This would also allow basketball/baseball guys to play spring AAU in April live periods. High school baseball is a joke due to weather, poor fields, spend half the time practicing inside plus, no colleges even sniff high school recruiting unless you are fortunate to make it to regionals.
This is the best recommendation yet.
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  #29  
Old 04-13-17, 06:53 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Let's blow up the sport so we can accommodate 3% of the participants.....

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  #30  
Old 04-13-17, 07:25 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Let's blow up the sport so we can accommodate 3% of the participants.....

They are either trolling or stupid. It's probably best to ignore them, either way
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