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  #391  
Old 04-04-17, 08:47 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Not something umpires get involved with, however, below is what is prescribed in the NFHS Rule Book.



If a game ends for whatever reason, having gone less than seven innings,
then the starting pitcher shall have pitched three or more consecutive innings to be declared the winning pitcher. If the starting pitcher cannot be declared the winning pitcher, and more than one relief pitcher is used, the winning pitcher shall be determined using the following criteria:

1. If the score is tied, it results in the game becoming a new contest so far as judging who is the winning and losing pitcher.

2. If the starting pitcher is removed before having pitched four or more
innings and his team is ahead, the official scorer shall determine the
winning pitcher to be the relief pitcher who has been the most effective.

3. If the opposition goes ahead, pitchers up to that time in the game cannot be credited with the win. However, if the pitcher pitching subsequently takes and maintains a lead the remainder of the game, said pitcher is credited with the win.

4. Generally the relief pitcher credited with the win is the pitcher when his
team takes the lead and holds it for the rest of the game. However, if the relief pitcher pitches only a short while or not effectively and a succeeding relief pitcher replaces him and does better work in keeping the lead, the latter shall be granted the win.
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  #392  
Old 04-04-17, 12:43 PM
serpico serpico is online now
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Batter (right handed) hits a chopper in front of the plate and kicks the ball while running to first. I assume if he's in the batter's box it's a foul ball while if he's out of the box it's an out.

If that assumption is correct, how is it determined whether or not he's in the box? Or is it where the ball is located when it is touched?
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  #393  
Old 04-04-17, 08:58 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Batter (right handed) hits a chopper in front of the plate and kicks the ball while running to first. I assume if he's in the batter's box it's a foul ball while if he's out of the box it's an out.

If that assumption is correct, how is it determined whether or not he's in the box? Or is it where the ball is located when it is touched?
If any part of the batter-runner is touching the batter's box, he's considered to be still in the box. (provided he did not leave the box first)
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  #394  
Old 04-08-17, 12:35 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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57:15 Right call?

Please disregard the horribly annoying student broadcasting.
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  #395  
Old 04-08-17, 07:32 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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At first look, I agree with the out call.

No way to tell for sure from this angle if #4 from the defense obstructed the runner.
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  #396  
Old 04-18-17, 12:36 PM
AnUnbiasedOpinion AnUnbiasedOpinion is offline
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Unless you have malicious contact (which was not indicated - the base umpire waited until the catcher tagged the runner to make the call), then it should've been ruled obstruction.

I don't see enough for malicious contact either and the fielder definitely hinders the runner. Obstruction. Runner is awarded home.

That said, that play is very difficult in real time without the aid of video replay...
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  #397  
Old 04-18-17, 09:22 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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So an inning begins, fly out, single, pop out, short single to right. Runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 out.

The fifth batter of the inning strikes out swinging, but the ball is dropped. It is then picked up by the catcher and launched over the 1st baseman's head. The runner from 2nd scores, the runner from 1st makes 3rd, and the 5th batter is safe at 1st.

The 6th batter doubles and clears the bases.

7th batter has a little infield single. 1st and 3rd again.

8th batter reaches on an infield error, runner from 3rd scores. Runners on 1st and 2nd.

9th batter grounds into FC, force at 2nd. Inning mercifully over. 4 runs in total.


How many of those 4 runs were earned ?
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  #398  
Old 04-19-17, 05:03 AM
fortfan fortfan is offline
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I would say zero.

5th batter would have been 3rd out if not for error on catcher.
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  #399  
Old 04-19-17, 05:31 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I guess that was more a "question for the Official Scorer".

Quote:
Originally Posted by fortfan View Post
I would say zero.

5th batter would have been 3rd out if not for error on catcher.
That was my thought as well.

I've seen the distinction made for a "battery error", and subsequently a dropped 3rd strike as a simple passed ball did not go toward the team error total. Due to that, I was uncertain about earned/unearned status. The inning certainly would have been over, though. No doubts there.

In this particular case, there was also an errant throw to 1st. That throw was likely responsible for the scoring by the runner from second - even with a two out lead-off. That particular pitcher always covers the plate, and the ball did not get that far anyway.
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  #400  
Old 04-19-17, 08:28 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I guess that was more a "question for the Official Scorer".



That was my thought as well.

I've seen the distinction made for a "battery error", and subsequently a dropped 3rd strike as a simple passed ball did not go toward the team error total. Due to that, I was uncertain about earned/unearned status. The inning certainly would have been over, though. No doubts there.

In this particular case, there was also an errant throw to 1st. That throw was likely responsible for the scoring by the runner from second - even with a two out lead-off. That particular pitcher always covers the plate, and the ball did not get that far anyway.
Not something that umpires get involved with or even get tested on, but if a run is scored due to a passed ball, it is an unearned run. If the run scored due to a wild pitch, then the run is earned.

In the case above since you have a PB followed by an E2 on the throw, all the runs are recorded as unearned.
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  #401  
Old 04-19-17, 09:01 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Not something that umpires get involved with or even get tested on, but if a run is scored due to a passed ball, it is an unearned run. If the run scored due to a wild pitch, then the run is earned.

In the case above since you have a PB followed by an E2 on the throw, all the runs are recorded as unearned.
This was a curve in the dirt that would likely have been a called strike anyway, but is it even possible by rule to score a third strike as a wild pitch if the batter swings at it ? Say a high "chase" FB gets above the catcher's mitt and misses the umpire ?
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  #402  
Old 04-19-17, 09:26 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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The swing is irrelevant.

Where the pitch is will determine whether or not it is a PB or WP. Typically, if it's down, it's going to be a wild pitch. If the catcher has to jump up for it, it's going to be a WP.
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  #403  
Old 05-01-17, 06:46 PM
ratterbox ratterbox is offline
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Runner on 2nd base 1 out Blooper hit to RF Runner takes off, outfielder dives and catchers the ball Runner rounds third sees fielder on the ground he continues on home fielder then throws home and ball goes out of play. They talked to the ump but did not appeal . What should have happened.
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  #404  
Old 05-01-17, 07:55 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratterbox View Post
Runner on 2nd base 1 out Blooper hit to RF Runner takes off, outfielder dives and catchers the ball Runner rounds third sees fielder on the ground he continues on home fielder then throws home and ball goes out of play. They talked to the ump but did not appeal . What should have happened.
If they didn't appeal, then you have two outs and a run scored.
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  #405  
Old 05-03-17, 08:21 AM
serpico serpico is online now
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This is a play that happened in a softball game, but what if it had happened in a baseball game: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/...home-run-video

Did the umpire get the call right?
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  #406  
Old 05-03-17, 09:42 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
This is a play that happened in a softball game, but what if it had happened in a baseball game: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/...home-run-video

Did the umpire get the call right?
Under HS Rules there can be a dead ball appeal, made verbally by the defense. The ball, (anther one given to pitcher or catcher) has nothing to do with the appeal.
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  #407  
Old 05-03-17, 10:02 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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A friendly reminder to all those who are posting in this forum......

This is a serious discussion about the rules and mechanics of Baseball. Anything other than questions fitting that description will be deleted.

You are free and encouraged to take your rants about umpires to the main portion of the Baseball Forum.

Thanks.....

AS12
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  #408  
Old 05-03-17, 10:06 AM
serpico serpico is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Under HS Rules there can be a dead ball appeal, made verbally by the defense. The ball, (anther one given to pitcher or catcher) has nothing to do with the appeal.
How soon can the appeal take place? The girl wasn't quite back to the dugout when she turned around to touch home.
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  #409  
Old 05-04-17, 01:38 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
How soon can the appeal take place? The girl wasn't quite back to the dugout when she turned around to touch home.
I do believe it can happen when the umpire deems the ball live for play once again.

As for heading to the dugout and such..there is a misconception that many think that since the batter/runner is 'out of baseline' (which isn't really out of baseline unless runner trying to avoid a tag) that it is over but that is not the case. Until the batter/runner reaches the dugout/dead ball area they can head back. I do believe though the umpire can/will rule the play over before that if the batter/runner takes off the headgear essentially ending the play ane once the ball is put back into play by the umpire an appeal can be made.

Not 100% sure when it can happen when it is a walk-off hit/hr but presuming it is as soon as the play is deemed over/in a dead ball area etc.

So in this case, and why is the batter celebrating a 3rd inning HR like a WS winning HR (likely cause it's a girl ha)?
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  #410  
Old 05-04-17, 06:38 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Rule 8-2-5 states.....


"If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out
upon proper and successful appeal."
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  #411  
Old 05-04-17, 10:15 AM
serpico serpico is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Rule 8-2-5 states.....


"If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out
upon proper and successful appeal."
I'm really not trying to be a pain here, but 'immediately' after what? Just curious if 'in the dugout' is the standard or 'after removing the headgear' is? And if it's the umpire's judgment call that's fine (and totally understandable).
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  #412  
Old 05-04-17, 01:55 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I'm really not trying to be a pain here, but 'immediately' after what? Just curious if 'in the dugout' is the standard or 'after removing the headgear' is? And if it's the umpire's judgment call that's fine (and totally understandable).
This, like most other decisions made out there, is subject to the judgment of the calling umpire.

I'm not sure where the "must enter the dugout" discussion originated, but that only applies to the batter-runner and his ability to advance to first base. It does not apply here.

As far as "immediately"..... Most I know will watch what the runner does after they cross the plate. If they begin to go to the dugout, "immediately" has gone out the window.

Just another reason why we get the big bucks to call these games.
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  #413  
Old 05-04-17, 06:57 PM
firewatch firewatch is offline
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I have seen this 3 times this year. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, base umpire is in position 3 or C. Between pitcher and shortstop. A pitch is thrown and the batter check swings. Catcher requests appeal on check swing to base umpire, Twice the base umpire changed call to a strike. Once he upheld plate umpire call of a ball. Can the base umpire make this ruling from that position on the field?
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  #414  
Old 05-04-17, 07:38 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewatch View Post
I have seen this 3 times this year. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, base umpire is in position 3 or C. Between pitcher and shortstop. A pitch is thrown and the batter check swings. Catcher requests appeal on check swing to base umpire, Twice the base umpire changed call to a strike. Once he upheld plate umpire call of a ball. Can the base umpire make this ruling from that position on the field?
As a plate umpire, I will usually tell my partner before the game that I will probably not grant a request to judge an appeal when in B or C position. It's not a great position to judge that and puts him in an unfair position. If I do grant the appeal, my partner will usually agree with me. There are times when he will give me a subtle signal right after the check swing that he has something and if the appeal is asked for, I grant it.
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  #415  
Old 05-05-17, 09:04 AM
Talimite Talimite is offline
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I have a question on a play that occurred a few years ago and I finally remembered to ask.

The play in question was on a field that had a out of play line paralleling the foul line with the lines being about 25 feet apart.

The first baseman caught a foul pop in play but his momentum caused him to step over the out of play line.

The umpires ruled the batter out but then gave the runners on base two bases due to the ball being out of play.

Is this the correct ruling?
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  #416  
Old 05-05-17, 09:54 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
As a plate umpire, I will usually tell my partner before the game that I will probably not grant a request to judge an appeal when in B or C position. It's not a great position to judge that and puts him in an unfair position. If I do grant the appeal, my partner will usually agree with me. There are times when he will give me a subtle signal right after the check swing that he has something and if the appeal is asked for, I grant it.
I'm struggling with leaving this on here or deleting it.

This type of mechanic, which is not approved or taught under any code, class, clinic, camp or school, is what gets umpires that do things the right way a TON of grief.

It is an absolute myth that you cannot see an offer from the B or C position. All you have to do is give your partner what you saw.

It's what you get paid to do.
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  #417  
Old 05-05-17, 07:31 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talimite View Post
I have a question on a play that occurred a few years ago and I finally remembered to ask.

The play in question was on a field that had a out of play line paralleling the foul line with the lines being about 25 feet apart.

The first baseman caught a foul pop in play but his momentum caused him to step over the out of play line.

The umpires ruled the batter out but then gave the runners on base two bases due to the ball being out of play.

Is this the correct ruling?
If his momentum took him out of play, it is a one base award. If he went out of play intentionally, then it is a two base award.
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  #418  
Old 05-11-17, 12:03 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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One thing that I am surprised to come across are the number of coaches that want bases awarded based on the time a ball went out of play and not when the ball was thrown.
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  #419  
Old 05-13-17, 06:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
One thing that I am surprised to come across are the number of coaches that want bases awarded based on the time a ball went out of play and not when the ball was thrown.
I don't permit fans or coaches bashing umpires on here, so let's not have umpires bashing coaches or fans.
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  #420  
Old 05-16-17, 08:44 AM
SinPista SinPista is offline
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This was a new one to me I heard last night. I guess it is termed the "Gorilla Arm Balk". Where a pitcher has the ball in his pitching hand and it dangles. Any movement in the arm is considered a balk, even if it is before he is in the set position? The ump was great, did not call the balk, but told both coaches in between innings as both pitchers were doing it.

A) is this the correct interpretation and B) what can we tell our pitcher to fix it. Just let the arm hang and not move the ball? or rest his arm behind his back?
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