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  #1471  
Old 09-11-18, 10:31 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
How about if their legs get crossed up? Would it have to be obviously intentional by one party to get called PI?
If side by side and running in the same direction their legs get tangled, it would probably be incidental contact and you would have nothing..... However, once a player changes route that prevents his opponent from moving towards the opportunity to catch or bat the pass.... he has committed a foul.
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  #1472  
Old 09-12-18, 06:02 AM
KramericaIndustries KramericaIndustries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If side by side and running in the same direction their legs get tangled, it would probably be incidental contact and you would have nothing..... However, once a player changes route that prevents his opponent from moving towards the opportunity to catch or bat the pass.... he has committed a foul.
Just to further clarify, this only applies if the ball is in the air. If the QB is still holding the ball, most contact is allowed (including shoving a player out of bounds) at any place in the field, it's not like the pros where you cant touch after 5 yards. Common misunderstood rule of high school
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  #1473  
Old 09-15-18, 08:59 AM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is online now
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Punting team has kid running into the field as the ball is snapped and punted. Since that is a dead ball foul can it be assessed after the kick. Or does it have to be a re-kick?


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  #1474  
Old 09-15-18, 09:21 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
Punting team has kid running into the field as the ball is snapped and punted. Since that is a dead ball foul can it be assessed after the kick. Or does it have to be a re-kick?


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Need some more information as a player running onto the field during a down is not a dead ball foul.
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  #1475  
Old 09-15-18, 11:31 AM
DHS1 DHS1 is offline
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Visiting player gets his second personal foul on last play of first half with them in possession. Home team coach declines the penalty to end the half. If he would except the penalty, does visitors get another play, and is player ejected for 2 personal fouls. Thanks
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  #1476  
Old 09-15-18, 11:32 AM
bb9 bb9 is online now
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There is no rule that disqualifies a player for a certain number of personal fouls. Two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties would result in an ejection, whether accepted or declined.
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  #1477  
Old 09-15-18, 11:50 AM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Need some more information as a player running onto the field during a down is not a dead ball foul.


Not sure what they called as they did not clearly signal illegal procedure and it looked like they may have signaled off sides which he may have been at the snap. They just marked off where the receiving team down the ball.

They called a foul and the signal was not clear. And the flag was thrown at the snap they just did not blow the play dead. It was in material as the kicking team was ahead with running clock under 2 minutes. It was odd as i thought there would be a rekick or they declined the penalty then they marked off the penalty.


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  #1478  
Old 09-15-18, 12:28 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS1 View Post
Visiting player gets his second personal foul on last play of first half with them in possession. Home team coach declines the penalty to end the half. If he would except the penalty, does visitors get another play, and is player ejected for 2 personal fouls. Thanks
If a foul occurs during the last timed down of a quarter and the penalty is accepted, you extend the quarter by one untimed down.

In this situation the opponent wisely declined the penalty..... Any good official would look at the head coach and say, "you want the half to end, correct?"
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  #1479  
Old 09-15-18, 01:05 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
Not sure what they called as they did not clearly signal illegal procedure and it looked like they may have signaled off sides which he may have been at the snap. They just marked off where the receiving team down the ball.

They called a foul and the signal was not clear. And the flag was thrown at the snap they just did not blow the play dead. It was in material as the kicking team was ahead with running clock under 2 minutes. It was odd as i thought there would be a rekick or they declined the penalty then they marked off the penalty.
First, there is no "offside" when playing under NFHS rules. When a player is illegally in the neutral zone during the time interval starting when the ball is marked ready for play and until the ball is snapped or free kicked, he has committed a foul for encroachment. This is a dead ball foul and no play can occur. However, this restriction does not apply to an entering substitute until he reaches his side of the neutral zone......

There are two potential fouls that occurred in the play you describe. If the entering player actually participated in the play, then he has committed an illegal Participation Foul. If he entered and did not participate (or change or alter) in the play, then the kicking team is guilty of an Illegal Substitution Foul. Due to a rule change this year, the receiving team may elect to enforce the penalty at the end of the down. The option of penalizing the kicking team from the previous spot or declining the penalty is also available to them.

For Illegal Participation in this play, the penalty would be 15 yards.
For illegal Substitution in this play, the penalty would be 5 yards.
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  #1480  
Old 09-15-18, 07:46 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Did they change the way they determine where a punt goes out of bounds?

Swore I still saw it this year where the referee by the kicker basically tells the side judge where to stop while he walks up the sideline.-
Was at a game where 4-5 punts were out of bounds and the side judge looked like he was trying to do this but the referee wouldn't cooperate and was heading downfield
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  #1481  
Old 09-15-18, 10:48 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Did they change the way they determine where a punt goes out of bounds?

Swore I still saw it this year where the referee by the kicker basically tells the side judge where to stop while he walks up the sideline.-
Was at a game where 4-5 punts were out of bounds and the side judge looked like he was trying to do this but the referee wouldn't cooperate and was heading downfield
No change in the mechanic for this
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  #1482  
Old 09-17-18, 04:04 PM
reggieDunlop reggieDunlop is offline
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Home team has a 4th and 3 at about midfield. They decide to punt. At the kick, the line judge throws a flag (holding on the kicking team). Kick is in the air, the umpire throws a flag (holding on the receiving team). Kick goes out of bounds at about the 25 yardline. A third flag is thrown at the end of the play (dead ball personal foul on the receiving team).

After a long huddle, the officials declare that the two holding calls offset but the penalty for the personal foul is marked off from the original line of scrimmage and give the kicking team a first down.

Correct enforcement? Shouldn't there be a way for the receiving team to keep the ball by declining the holding penalty on the kicking team?
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  #1483  
Old 09-17-18, 04:44 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggieDunlop View Post
Home team has a 4th and 3 at about midfield. They decide to punt. At the kick, the line judge throws a flag (holding on the kicking team). Kick is in the air, the umpire throws a flag (holding on the receiving team). Kick goes out of bounds at about the 25 yardline. A third flag is thrown at the end of the play (dead ball personal foul on the receiving team).

After a long huddle, the officials declare that the two holding calls offset but the penalty for the personal foul is marked off from the original line of scrimmage and give the kicking team a first down.

Correct enforcement? Shouldn't there be a way for the receiving team to keep the ball by declining the holding penalty on the kicking team?
Correct enforcement....

Because R's foul occurred prior to the change of possession, this combined with K's foul for holding create a double foul, which by rule cancel and the down is replayed. however, we still have to deal with the dead ball foul by R. Enforce the 15yd penalty and since that enforcement takes the ball past the line-to-gain, (it was 4th and 3) a new series is awarded to K and it is 1st and 10 for K.

Had the foul on R occurred after the change of possession, then R would have had the option to decline K's foul, keep the ball, and have the foul committed after the change of possession and the dead ball foul enforced against them.
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  #1484  
Old 09-17-18, 05:55 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
No change in the mechanic for this
Then the referee at the Indian Lake and Springfield Shawnee blew this off multiple times leaving the other official out in a lurch trying to guess where it went out of bounds...and there were 5+ kicks out of bounds.
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  #1485  
Old 09-18-18, 09:58 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Were the punts airborne when they went out of bounds, or did the hit and bounce/roll OOB?
Airborne. Imagine they were afraid of the PR as he was a do everything athlete. A couple landed so far out of bounds they landed on or very close to the track.

First couple of times the side judge looked befuddled and you could see him eyeing the referee as he ran down the field to set the ball but the last few times he just did the best he could.
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  #1486  
Old 09-18-18, 10:13 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Ok.....

We can talk about the mechanic, but lets move on from what did or didn't happen on the field.

Thanks
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  #1487  
Old 09-18-18, 10:25 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Hypothetical.....

can the offense no huddle a 2 point conversion try?

Let's say it's 4th and goal at the one yard line. The offense scores. They don't substitute any players and then move back to the spot to line up for the 2 point try as fast as possible.

I realize it's an untimed down but do they have to wait for the defense? How much time does the defense have to get their team on the field? Would the ref actually stand over the ball and make them wait?

I can't say I've ever seen a team try it. Most teams are too busy celebrating and fooling around after a score and take their sweet time to get their extra point team on the field.

Thoughts?
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  #1488  
Old 09-18-18, 10:58 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Hypothetical.....

can the offense no huddle a 2 point conversion try?

Let's say it's 4th and goal at the one yard line. The offense scores. They don't substitute any players and then move back to the spot to line up for the 2 point try as fast as possible.

I realize it's an untimed down but do they have to wait for the defense? How much time does the defense have to get their team on the field? Would the ref actually stand over the ball and make them wait?

I can't say I've ever seen a team try it. Most teams are too busy celebrating and fooling around after a score and take their sweet time to get their extra point team on the field.

Thoughts?
There's never a requirement for a huddle.

That said, an officiating crew should never react to a team's desire to play fast or play slow. Their pace of securing the ball, placing it ready, and blowing the ready for play whistle should be consistent throughout the game.

As you noted, just by the nature of the play there is typically a longer delay in getting the ball from the player, clearing the celebrants, spotting the ball, and getting the crew into position for the try, whether it be for one point or for two.

I have never encountered such a strategy, but should a crew be faced with it in an upcoming game, they should not rush just to allow one team to benefit..... they also should not drag their feet just to keep a team from benefiting.....
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  #1489  
Old 09-18-18, 12:35 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
There's never a requirement for a huddle.

That said, an officiating crew should never react to a team's desire to play fast or play slow. Their pace of securing the ball, placing it ready, and blowing the ready for play whistle should be consistent throughout the game.

As you noted, just by the nature of the play there is typically a longer delay in getting the ball from the player, clearing the celebrants, spotting the ball, and getting the crew into position for the try, whether it be for one point or for two.

I have never encountered such a strategy, but should a crew be faced with it in an upcoming game, they should not rush just to allow one team to benefit..... they also should not drag their feet just to keep a team from benefiting.....
I've been trying to find holes in the strategy and can't really.

I've talked to several fans and a few coaches and they've all said the same thing.

So I decided to bring it here.

Thanks again!
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  #1490  
Old 09-18-18, 07:09 PM
reggieDunlop reggieDunlop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Correct enforcement....

Because R's foul occurred prior to the change of possession, this combined with K's foul for holding create a double foul, which by rule cancel and the down is replayed. however, we still have to deal with the dead ball foul by R. Enforce the 15yd penalty and since that enforcement takes the ball past the line-to-gain, (it was 4th and 3) a new series is awarded to K and it is 1st and 10 for K.

Had the foul on R occurred after the change of possession, then R would have had the option to decline K's foul, keep the ball, and have the foul committed after the change of possession and the dead ball foul enforced against them.
Does 10-2-3 apply where R can decline Ks penalty? Since both of Rs penalties are PSK?
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  #1491  
Old 09-19-18, 05:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggieDunlop View Post
Does 10-2-3 apply where R can decline K’s penalty? Since both of R’s penalties are PSK?
The second foul (dead ball foul) by R was not a PSK foul, therefore 10-2-1b applies.


ART. 1 . . . "It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than nonplayer or unsportsmanlike, during the same live-ball period in which:

b. There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls, or


In (a), (b) or (c), the penalties cancel and the down is replayed"



In this play only 2 of the 3 items noted in "b" were met.......there was a change of possession, the team in possession (R) fouled prior to the final change of possession, however all fouls by R were not PSK fouls.
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  #1492  
Old 09-19-18, 08:56 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS1 View Post
Visiting player gets his second personal foul on last play of first half with them in possession. Home team coach declines the penalty to end the half. If he would except the penalty, does visitors get another play, and is player ejected for 2 personal fouls. Thanks
I haven't seen a response for this yet, so I'll address it.

Common misconception by many people (including officials): "personal fouls" and "unsportsmanlike conduct" are not the same thing. In high school it's very simple: the former involves contact, the latter does not. People use the terms interchangeably (probably because they hear commentators do it), but that is simply inaccurate.

There is no rule that requires DQ after two personal fouls. The officials would have to rule a "flagrant personal foul" to DQ the offender.

Two unsportsmanlike conduct fouls (always noncontact fouls), on the contrary, is an automatic DQ.

And yes, if the penalty is declined, the foul still counts toward DQ.
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  #1493  
Old 09-19-18, 12:02 PM
bb9 bb9 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
There is no rule that disqualifies a player for a certain number of personal fouls. Two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties would result in an ejection, whether accepted or declined.
There was

But you've expanded on it, which is helpful.
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  #1494  
Old 09-20-18, 08:37 AM
toledomansfield toledomansfield is offline
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Offensive "pick" plays. can an offensive eligible receiver block downfield before the ball is in the air? If not, does the offensive player have a "duty" to avoid contact.
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  #1495  
Old 09-20-18, 09:13 AM
toledomansfield toledomansfield is offline
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Isn't there something in the rules about the offensive restrictions start at the snap?

Last edited by AllSports12; 09-20-18 at 09:26 AM.
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  #1496  
Old 09-20-18, 09:29 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledomansfield View Post
Offensive "pick" plays. can an offensive eligible receiver block downfield before the ball is in the air? If not, does the offensive player have a "duty" to avoid contact.
If an eligible receiver blocks downfield and a legal forward pass is thrown and crosses the LOS...... you have offensive pass interference. Timing of the block is irrelevant.

If the pass crosses the LOS, those pick plays are illegal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toledomansfield View Post
Isn't there something in the rules about the offensive restrictions start at the snap?
Correct.

Pass Interference restrictions for all A players (offense) begin with the snap.
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  #1497  
Old 09-20-18, 09:31 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Sorry about the editing of your post and deletion of my post... I'm having some laptop issues today.
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  #1498  
Old 09-21-18, 08:37 AM
toledomansfield toledomansfield is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Sorry about the editing of your post and deletion of my post... I'm having some laptop issues today.
no worries
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  #1499  
Old 09-21-18, 08:45 PM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is online now
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Stow booth keeps playing a Warning Horn over the PA every time Wads has 3 & Long right up after the snap.

Is that legal

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  #1500  
Old 09-22-18, 09:25 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadz06 View Post
Stow booth keeps playing a Warning Horn over the PA every time Wads has 3 & Long right up after the snap.

Is that legal

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No amplified noise is to be played over the PA system while the ball is live or while the QB is announcing signals.

There is no penalty for this. This is a game management matter. If the Referee notices this he is to bring it to the attention of game management. If the matter persists he can order the PA shut down.

If game management refuses to comply with the Referees request to handle the matter a game incident report will be filed with the OHSAA and they will handle matters from there.
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