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  #1261  
Old 03-15-19, 10:18 AM
Omar Omar is online now
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I'd argue the first is more in line with Elder's stated mission as a school, forget sports. And the second is a compromise of the mission, FOR sports.

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BS. The second instance the kid is being treated differently bc he’s a star b-ball player. I talked to some of the people in that article, or at least I tried to, and they didn’t put forth any kind of effort with Griffith.

I also like how you want to critique the program as an outsider, then pretend like not landing the #1 8th Grade player in the country isn’t a big deal.

Last edited by Omar; 03-15-19 at 10:31 AM.
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  #1262  
Old 03-15-19, 10:21 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
BS. The second instance the kid is being treated differently bc he’s a star b-ball player. I talked to some of the people in that article, or at least I tried to, and they didn’t put forth any kind of effort with Griffith.
What issue were they trying to help Griffith with, besides your desire to get a stud athlete into the program?

You're basically asking them to illegally recruit. Don't put Elder in that position.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 03-15-19 at 10:37 AM.
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  #1263  
Old 03-15-19, 12:03 PM
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I’m not going to discuss the kid’s personal life, but I can say he’s a good kid that could use some structure outside of basketball. He has some good people working with him, but they can’t be around him all Yr.
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  #1264  
Old 03-15-19, 04:16 PM
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People forget, Pat Kelsey and Dave Ginn only transferred in for their Sr Yr, and they’re Elder Legends. Wouldn’t they be thought of as being “recruited.” Now RG would be at Elder for 4 yrs and lives right by Elder. How is that worse than a 1 yr transfer from outside traditional feeders?

This whole situation just doesn’t sit well with me. Aren’t people tired of eating crap from Moeller Yr after Yr? Making underhanded comments about them recruiting doesn’t change anything. There needs to be some type of action to get more talent in the doors.
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  #1265  
Old 03-15-19, 05:01 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
People forget, Pat Kelsey and Dave Ginn only transferred in for their Sr Yr, and they’re Elder Legends. Wouldn’t they be thought of as being “recruited.” Now RG would be at Elder for 4 yrs and lives right by Elder. How is that worse than a 1 yr transfer from outside traditional feeders?



This whole situation just doesn’t sit well with me. Aren’t people tired of eating crap from Moeller Yr after Yr? Making underhanded comments about them recruiting doesn’t change anything. There needs to be some type of action to get more talent in the doors.
Reading your comments you come across as a guy that doesn't know much about sports, but became fully invested in them as an adult. Possibly inspired by movies like Friday Night Lights and Varsity Blues, you watched the parents and boosters and said to yourself, "NAILED IT!" Then set out to reach that standard.

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  #1266  
Old 03-15-19, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Reading your comments you come across as a guy that doesn't know much about sports, but became fully invested in them as an adult. Possibly inspired by movies like Friday Night Lights and Varsity Blues, you watched the parents and boosters and said to yourself, "NAILED IT!" Then set out to reach that standard.

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Not at all, and I’m not sure what leads you to believe that. I hate fairytale crap like FNL. I just don’t understand how you can pretend like it’s not important to land the best 8th Grader in the country when he lives in your backyard. He would’ve been the best player on Elder’s team as an 8th grader. He’s even ranked ahead of LeBron Jr, think about that.
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  #1267  
Old 03-15-19, 08:25 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
People forget, Pat Kelsey and Dave Ginn only transferred in for their Sr Yr, and they’re Elder Legends. Wouldn’t they be thought of as being “recruited.”
I don't think this is right. Ginn played at least two years for Elder. Yes, they did transfer but their families literally moved 20 miles west so no, neither were recruited to transfer to Elder. In fact, the story goes LaSalle offered Kelsey a starting spot and Coach Joe told Pat he would have to work to crack the lineup. Pat like Coach Joe's approach. Dont know if its true or not.
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  #1268  
Old 03-15-19, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I don't think this is right. Ginn played at least two years for Elder. Yes, they did transfer but their families literally moved 20 miles west so no, neither were recruited to transfer to Elder. In fact, the story goes LaSalle offered Kelsey a starting spot and Coach Joe told Pat he would have to work to crack the lineup. Pat like Coach Joe's approach. Dont know if its true or not.
Regardless, this kid lives closer to Elder than 99% of the school and would be here 4 yrs. He’s just as much “Elder” as Kelsey or Ginn were before they got to Elder
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  #1269  
Old 03-15-19, 08:53 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Regardless, this kid lives closer to Elder than 99% of the school
Agreed. Elder should do what ever it takes.
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  #1270  
Old 03-15-19, 08:59 PM
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Agreed. Elder should do what ever it takes.


This kid could be in the NBA within 5 yrs. If he’s loyal to Elder, that’s a lot of $ for donations.
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  #1271  
Old 03-16-19, 09:18 AM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
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The JV starting 5 should've been on varsity from the start of the season and only played 1st half of JV games. This would have allowed the other JV player (Link, Ramstetter, etc) to develop. Harp and Keller should have also been full time JV the whole year. I think Harp was also good enough to dress varsity. I don't care that he's only a frosh. The other frosh like Ramsey, Kirch, Busam (maybe even Niangane, Hambleton, Broxterman + others) should have played a little bit of both. Let them play 1st half of frosh games and 2nd half of JV games. That being said here's what Next years lineup should look like IMO!!

1. Cluxton, Walker, Keller
2. Keehan, Miller/Luebbe/ J. Byrne
3. Merz, Harp (6th man), Ramsey
4. Nieman, Keyes, Ramstetter
5. Larkins or Royer, Kandra

Cluxton should be the primary starting pg but E should definitely get Cluxton and Walker (or Keller), on the court at the same time. Merz, Keehan and Harp need to be the primary guards in the game. Could maybe include Miller in there as well. Luebbe, J.Byrne, and Domenicone are rotational combo guard type guys. Nieman is too talented not to start and will probably end up being a 6'7 SF/PF guy. Keyes, Ramstetter, Kirch, and Busam provide depth. As for Center its going to be between Royer and Larkins. If Kandra returns he provided much needed depth and will be in the rotation. Link should play JV next year like Holmes did to develop his game. Elder has a great opportunity the next few years to really prove themselves. Predicting a state championship may be a bit too ambitious right now but i think they are fully capable of making a sweet 16 or elite 8 appearance in the state tourney. Hopefully they don't squander their opportunities.
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  #1272  
Old 03-16-19, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
The JV starting 5 should've been on varsity from the start of the season and only played 1st half of JV games. This would have allowed the other JV player (Link, Ramstetter, etc) to develop. Harp and Keller should have also been full time JV the whole year. I think Harp was also good enough to dress varsity. I don't care that he's only a frosh. The other frosh like Ramsey, Kirch, Busam (maybe even Niangane, Hambleton, Broxterman + others) should have played a little bit of both. Let them play 1st half of frosh games and 2nd half of JV games. That being said here's what Next years lineup should look like IMO!!

1. Cluxton, Walker, Keller
2. Keehan, Miller/Luebbe/ J. Byrne
3. Merz, Harp (6th man), Ramsey
4. Nieman, Keyes, Ramstetter
5. Larkins or Royer, Kandra

Cluxton should be the primary starting pg but E should definitely get Cluxton and Walker (or Keller), on the court at the same time. Merz, Keehan and Harp need to be the primary guards in the game. Could maybe include Miller in there as well. Luebbe, J.Byrne, and Domenicone are rotational combo guard type guys. Nieman is too talented not to start and will probably end up being a 6'7 SF/PF guy. Keyes, Ramstetter, Kirch, and Busam provide depth. As for Center its going to be between Royer and Larkins. If Kandra returns he provided much needed depth and will be in the rotation. Link should play JV next year like Holmes did to develop his game. Elder has a great opportunity the next few years to really prove themselves. Predicting a state championship may be a bit too ambitious right now but i think they are fully capable of making a sweet 16 or elite 8 appearance in the state tourney. Hopefully they don't squander their opportunities.
Have to disagree, your PG needs to be a steady Eddie. Cluxton is a great scorer, but takes too many chances with the ball. You can’t have a repeat of that Springfield game again.

There’s no way to really know how far they’ll go in future tournaments, there’s many variables that are unknown. TBH, only a S16, which is one game better than this Yr, would be massively disappointing if that’s their ceiling.
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  #1273  
Old 03-16-19, 12:48 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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That's like 16 kids. They never keep a varsity roster that big. People are going to have to wrap their heads around tough decisions being made.

If they're going to bring up the younger guys, which I think is the right thing to do, it will have to be at the sake of a few of the older guys.

Either way, they're going to have pockets of upset parents. They key is making the right decisions for the program going forward, not the easy decision that focused more on appeasing people.

It's a whole lot easier to keep the older kids and say "the younger guys will get their turn", but likely not the best decision for the program. We shall see.
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  #1274  
Old 03-16-19, 12:53 PM
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There’s going to be a few Jrs/rising Srs that won’t comeback for various reasons.
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  #1275  
Old 03-16-19, 01:26 PM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
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There would really only be a set roster of 12-14 kids. There should be a few sophs and jrs who play mostly jv but maybe dress varsity to provide some depth and get them involved on the varsity level somehow eve though they wont play much.
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  #1276  
Old 03-16-19, 02:12 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
There would really only be a set roster of 12-14 kids. There should be a few sophs and jrs who play mostly jv but maybe dress varsity to provide some depth and get them involved on the varsity level somehow eve though they wont play much.
I could see that. I agree with your approach. I'm excited to see what the next few years brings in basketball. It will likely be their best sport, to be honest (out of football, basketball, and baseball).

I hope the multi-sport kids at least give half the year to basketball training. Their best chance for deep runs are in basketball.
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  #1277  
Old 03-19-19, 06:50 AM
SC10EHS15 SC10EHS15 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I could see that. I agree with your approach. I'm excited to see what the next few years brings in basketball. It will likely be their best sport, to be honest (out of football, basketball, and baseball).

I hope the multi-sport kids at least give half the year to basketball training. Their best chance for deep runs are in basketball.
Volleyball has been, will be this year and will continue to be their best sport. Just like it's been since 1999. The sport continues to grow through the state/country so hopefully the Elder community will start to appreciate what Tierney and his staff have built and show up to more games
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  #1278  
Old 03-19-19, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SC10EHS15 View Post
Volleyball has been, will be this year and will continue to be their best sport. Just like it's been since 1999. The sport continues to grow through the state/country so hopefully the Elder community will start to appreciate what Tierney and his staff have built and show up to more games
I respect the hell out of volleyball, but it’s not fair to compare their success against Football and Basketball, the level of competition is nowhere near as deep.
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  #1279  
Old 03-19-19, 07:54 AM
purpleandwhite purpleandwhite is offline
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I respect the hell out of volleyball, but it’s not fair to compare their success against Football and Basketball, the level of competition is nowhere near as deep.
Regardless if its volleyball, basketball, football ,baseball or wrestling if you can be the best in the GCL you are state title contenders.
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  #1280  
Old 03-19-19, 08:18 AM
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Regardless if its volleyball, basketball, football ,baseball or wrestling if you can be the best in the GCL you are state title contenders.
Yes, but my point was is it’s not fair to football or basketball when you compare them to vball. Let’s be honest, it’s mostly just the private schools and upper middle class publics that have vball.
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  #1281  
Old 03-19-19, 08:44 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Yes, but my point was is it’s not fair to football or basketball when you compare them to vball. Let’s be honest, it’s mostly just the private schools and upper middle class publics that have vball.
How is that different than football?

Or basketball?

It's essentially the same schools who compete at the high levels regardless of sport.
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  #1282  
Old 03-19-19, 08:49 AM
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How is that different than football?

Or basketball?

It's essentially the same schools who compete at the high levels regardless of sport.
Do Colerain, Winton Woods, and Springfield have volleyball teams? I honestly don’t know.

It’s like X in swimming, the sport fits the “cultural dynamic” of the school better than others.
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  #1283  
Old 03-19-19, 08:55 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Colerain has a club volleyball team that is in its fourth season of existence. They're probably as relevant in their sport as Colerain's basketball team is in its.

You're right that fewer schools compete in volleyball, but X, Moeller, Elder, St. Ignatius, St. Edward, Centerville, Hilliard schools, Dublin schools, etc. are going to be in the mix regardless of sport.
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  #1284  
Old 03-19-19, 09:19 AM
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Colerain has a club volleyball team that is in its fourth season of existence. They're probably as relevant in their sport as Colerain's basketball team is in its.

You're right that fewer schools compete in volleyball, but X, Moeller, Elder, St. Ignatius, St. Edward, Centerville, Hilliard schools, Dublin schools, etc. are going to be in the mix regardless of sport.
But if you take Colerain and WW out of Football, that makes a huge competitive difference. I’m not trying to drag volleyball down, but their performance compared to football or basketball isn’t on an apples to apples basis.
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  #1285  
Old 03-19-19, 09:35 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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To be clear, I have nothing but respect for the volleyball and wrestling programs. Their methods should be emulated across all sports at Elder (more inclusive, youth programs, less politics, strive to continually elevate, etc, etc).

I've ventured to watch both of these sports in the last couple of years because of what they represent. I agree they should get MUCH more respect at the school.

Football is a dying breed. You can't put all your bread in that basket.
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  #1286  
Old 03-19-19, 09:50 AM
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Volleyball has a built in competitive advantage bc of the minimized breadth of competition. Wrestling is the sport that should be emulated.

Football is not “dying”, but they need a more diverse pipeline of talent, like wrestling. It’s not a coincidence wrestling has been the most diverse and relatively succesful sport the past few years.
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  #1287  
Old 03-19-19, 09:55 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Volleyball deserves praise. Let's not try to minimize what they've done.

The school is declining in enrollment, and there are FAR less kids playing football. Football will not consistently be the top sport in the future. They would be very smart to diversify the talk track about a more broad-based sports experience than to focus so much on football.
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  #1288  
Old 03-19-19, 10:24 AM
SC10EHS15 SC10EHS15 is offline
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More and more schools are gaining boys' volleyball programs and the sport continues to gain traction in becoming officially sanctioned by the OHSAA. Middletown, Princeton, Taylor, Royalmont Academy, Edgewood, etc. have all started programs in recent memory. This will do nothing, but spread the competition out.

It used to be Elder, X and Moe as the big 3 in Ohio volleyball, but now you've got Darby, St. I's. St. Ed's, Altar, Olentangy, Beavercreek, Centerville etc. all in the conversation. And Elder is consistently scheduling these teams in the regular season to avoid playing teams on a lesser playing field. Not to mention that club volleyball teams from Ohio are players at Nationals every summer
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  #1289  
Old 03-19-19, 10:42 AM
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More and more schools are gaining boys' volleyball programs and the sport continues to gain traction in becoming officially sanctioned by the OHSAA. Middletown, Princeton, Taylor, Royalmont Academy, Edgewood, etc. have all started programs in recent memory. This will do nothing, but spread the competition out.

It used to be Elder, X and Moe as the big 3 in Ohio volleyball, but now you've got Darby, St. I's. St. Ed's, Altar, Olentangy, Beavercreek, Centerville etc. all in the conversation. And Elder is consistently scheduling these teams in the regular season to avoid playing teams on a lesser playing field. Not to mention that club volleyball teams from Ohio are players at Nationals every summer
With the exception of Princeton, I can’t envision any of those schools competing at a high level. This is a niche sport, it’s not universal like Football, Basketball, or even wrestling.

Again, I’m not saying this to disparage Volleyball in any way, but it’s not a fair comparison in performance.
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  #1290  
Old 03-19-19, 10:49 AM
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And Football is always going to be the Alpha sport bc the Pit is tied to the identity of the school. There’s two ways to look at the way Football can be turned around: increase enrollment numbers, or attract better quality athletes. IMO, the approach they have the most control over is bringing in better quality players. Dominic, William, Teresa, Martins, Lourdes, even Antoninous are pretty much dead. And Elder can’t really influence people to move into those neighborhoods to spike enrollment. So they need to get a handful of premium non Feeder talent every yr. They were about 3 Defensive players away from being legitimate contenders. It’s s lot easier to draw in 3 kids than spur development in neighborhoods that are structurally in decline.
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