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  #1  
Old 10-17-17, 01:01 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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California passes law requiring pet stores to sell rescue animals only

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Thanks to bill A.B. 485 which was signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown last Friday, the Golden State is now the first to require pet stores to sell animals from shelters and rescue centers only.

The law, which primarily applies to dogs, cats and rabbits, means that pet stores can no longer sell animals that were commercially raised in “puppy mills” or “kitten factories,” according to the New York Times.

The bill, which was first introduced in February, was written by California State Assembly members Patrick O’Donnell and Matt Dababneh, according to the newspaper. The law goes into effect on Jan. 1, 2019.
Read more:
http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/201...mals-only.html
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  #2  
Old 10-17-17, 01:29 PM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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Don't see a problem with this. Should reduce the number of puppy mills and such
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  #3  
Old 10-17-17, 01:42 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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This is better than prohibition and the introduction of lotteries!

I think I just had a $1B brainstorm:

"SWMCinci's Pets O' Distinction" - about 15-20 retail pet stores located at the borders of California and Nevada/Oregon/Arizona and Mexico. Specializing in non-mutant mutts for those Californians not satisfied with the Heinz 57 genetics of state-born puppies or taking on the risks of abandoned or slightly used pets. I just can't imagine the Hollywood, Beverly Hills or SF communities shopping for wormy cast-offs from the little people.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-17, 01:44 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Don't see a problem with this. Should reduce the number of puppy mills and such
And what about legit breeders? They lose everything?
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  #5  
Old 10-17-17, 01:49 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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California passes law requiring pet stores to sell rescue animals only

Good.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-17, 01:52 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
And what about legit breeders? They lose everything?

Individuals can still buy from breeders.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-17, 02:12 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Probably a good idea, though I am sure the right will oppose it now, lol.

I have only ever bought from shelters. No sense slaughtering thousands of "used" animals just so idiots can get their fetish on. Unless you are rich, in which case gold plated toilet seats are fine too, anyone who pays several hundred for a dog or cat is an idiot. JMO. I also think inside cats and dogs is gross, and I think less of people who allow that. Especially when their house is filthy and reeks (which is most). Fwiw. Exception being lonely old people who's friends are all dead and soon will be also.
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  #8  
Old 10-17-17, 02:18 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Probably a good idea, though I am sure the right will oppose it now, lol.

I have only ever bought from shelters. No sense slaughtering thousands of "used" animals just so idiots can get their fetish on. Unless you are rich, in which case gold plated toilet seats are fine too, anyone who pays several hundred for a dog or cat is an idiot. JMO. I also think inside cats and dogs is gross, and I think less of people who allow that. Especially when their house is filthy and reeks (which is most). Fwiw. Exception being lonely old people who's friends are all dead and soon will be also.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-17, 02:49 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Probably a good idea, though I am sure the right will oppose it now, lol.

I have only ever bought from shelters. No sense slaughtering thousands of "used" animals just so idiots can get their fetish on. Unless you are rich, in which case gold plated toilet seats are fine too, anyone who pays several hundred for a dog or cat is an idiot. JMO. I also think inside cats and dogs is gross, and I think less of people who allow that. Especially when their house is filthy and reeks (which is most). Fwiw. Exception being lonely old people who's friends are all dead and soon will be also.
not sure where u are going with this..... but then that is not surprising.....what are your thoughts on people who have pet birds?
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  #10  
Old 10-17-17, 03:24 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Looks like TP might have suffered a minor stroke today.


The OP is a good idea. No shortage of pet stores get their dogs from puppy mills.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-17, 04:16 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I guess I am a little surprised by the reaction on this board. The slow drip of getting rid of capitalism is invading even those that claim to be from the right of the political spectrum?

This may produce an outcome that some of you want but do you really need the government to increase regulations and prohibitions on private businesses? Really?
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  #12  
Old 10-17-17, 04:21 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Individuals can still buy from breeders.
I'm guessing that more quality animals are sold this way already.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-17, 04:47 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I guess I am a little surprised by the reaction on this board. The slow drip of getting rid of capitalism is invading even those that claim to be from the right of the political spectrum?

This may produce an outcome that some of you want but do you really need the government to increase regulations and prohibitions on private businesses? Really?
I agree I am torn. Puppy mills are notorious for inhumane treatment. Couple that with all the perfectly good shelter animals. I'd just as soon consumers not buy their pets from these places and they would go out of business on their own.

I feel the same way about pay day loan stores. They prey on those that can least afford to use them. I wish people wouldn't and sometimes I agree with laws proposed to outlaw them. But, my libertarian side tells me that it's part of the cost of freedom.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-17, 04:49 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Even Milton Friedman would agree that the role of government is to incentivize good business.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-17, 06:31 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Most breeders don't sell in pet stores.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-17, 06:44 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Even Milton Friedman would agree that the role of government is to incentivize good business.
Even if that was the case (I don't think it is), what is good business is subjective and the idea that "government" is able to identify that is questionable at best. Government shouldn't be in the business of incentivizing business or personal behavior.
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  #17  
Old 10-17-17, 06:54 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Even if that was the case (I don't think it is),
It is.

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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
what is good business is subjective and the idea that "government" is able to identify that is questionable at best.
Since puppy mills are an unethical and abusive business, I would say the declaration that it is bad business is true.

Friedman was against monopolies, large corporations, and multinationals because they impaired the competitive market. His idea of capitalism is one with small companies fueling competition. Incentivizing good business to him would have meant creating an environment where it was more beneficial to stay small(ish).

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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Government shouldn't be in the business of incentivizing business or personal behavior.
Government is absolutely responsible for setting the framework in which businesses may operate.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-17, 08:13 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
It is.
If you say so.

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Since puppy mills are an unethical and abusive business, I would say the declaration that it is bad business is true.
Address puppy mills if that's the problem.

Quote:
Friedman was against monopolies, large corporations, and multinationals because they impaired the competitive market. His idea of capitalism is one with small companies fueling competition. Incentivizing good business to him would have meant creating an environment where it was more beneficial to stay small(ish).
That makes very little sense.


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Government is absolutely responsible for setting the framework in which businesses may operate.
Yes, with the main focus being upholding contracts.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-17, 08:17 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
If you say so.
I'd suggest reading his books or watching his videos. He says it quite a few times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Address puppy mills if that's the problem.
Puppy mills aren't the only problem worth addressing, but for the sake of the thread we can limit it to that.


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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
That makes very little sense.
It makes perfect sense if you understand that more competition means a healthier economy.

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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Yes, with the main focus being upholding contracts.
With the main focus being any sort of activity that is consequential to a third party.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-17, 08:46 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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If the state is interested in closing puppy mills and kitten farms - why not set the regulations for how they operate and regulate them like they do other businesses like cosmetologists, restaurants, and elevators?
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  #21  
Old 10-18-17, 06:36 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
If the state is interested in closing puppy mills and kitten farms - why not set the regulations for how they operate and regulate them like they do other businesses like cosmetologists, restaurants, and elevators?
That would not be nearly as fashionably trend-setting, which is what the state is infinitely more interested in.
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  #22  
Old 10-18-17, 08:07 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
I'd suggest reading his books or watching his videos. He says it quite a few times.




Puppy mills aren't the only problem worth addressing, but for the sake of the thread we can limit it to that.




It makes perfect sense if you understand that more competition means a healthier economy.



With the main focus being any sort of activity that is consequential to a third party.
You have some of the oddest views regarding government that I've ever seen from someone claiming to be a libertarian. You may be right about Friedman, I admittedly haven't read/watched a lot from him, but what I have does not fit your claim. Such as the following:

Quote:
Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.
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  #23  
Old 10-18-17, 10:07 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
You have some of the oddest views regarding government that I've ever seen from someone claiming to be a libertarian. You may be right about Friedman, I admittedly haven't read/watched a lot from him, but what I have does not fit your claim. Such as the following:
I think you jump to conclusions.

His philosophy is based on freedom of association and exchange between individuals. When actions are taken that impact third parties, the government is the mediator.
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  #24  
Old 10-18-17, 10:29 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
I think you jump to conclusions.

His philosophy is based on freedom of association and exchange between individuals. When actions are taken that impact third parties, the government is the mediator.
Being a mediator when a party is wronged is different than incentivizing behavior. That's being an active participant and engaging in coercion which Friedman also was against.
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  #25  
Old 10-18-17, 10:30 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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I love libertarians. I am part one too. I think we all are. But then you get caught in these inane debates. Trying to curb the out of control slaughter of abandoned or unwanted pets is not rearranging the economy, lol. In it's strictest sense, Libertarians technically would be for open borders, no speed limits, legalized crack and all sorts of stuff. Use your head. I get the cynicism, and the caution, but some things actually are in the public good.
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  #26  
Old 10-18-17, 10:42 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Being a mediator when a party is wronged is different than incentivizing behavior. That's being an active participant and engaging in coercion which Friedman also was against.
It isn't exclusive to a party being "wronged", it's anything that may impact themselves, their family, or their property. Through this is how a community can deal with issues such as pollution or large scale developments.

The problem is you're too close to AnCap territory. Just as much of a fantasy and self-contradiction as socialism.
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  #27  
Old 10-18-17, 10:42 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
I love libertarians. I am part one too. I think we all are. But then you get caught in these inane debates. Trying to curb the out of control slaughter of abandoned or unwanted pets is not rearranging the economy, lol.
Agreed, it better falls under the legislating of morality.

Quote:
In it's strictest sense, Libertarians technically would be for open borders, no speed limits, legalized crack and all sorts of stuff. Use your head. I get the cynicism, and the caution, but some things actually are in the public good.
I wouldn't say open borders, more like an open path to legal immigration. I'd prefer privatized roads to no speed limits and legalize all the drugs you want.
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  #28  
Old 10-18-17, 10:46 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
It isn't exclusive to a party being "wronged", it's anything that may impact themselves, their family, or their property. Through this is how a community can deal with issues such as pollution or large scale developments.
Can you point me in the direction of some material from Friedman that falls in line with the above?

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The problem is you're too close to AnCap territory. Just as much of a fantasy and self-contradiction as socialism.
Where's the self-contradiction?
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  #29  
Old 10-18-17, 10:53 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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It was in a video. Not sure which one.

It's self-contradictory as it assumes a definition of coercion which itself is coercion.
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