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  #91  
Old 07-26-17, 06:21 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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LeBron has said a lot of things in his career and then backed off of.
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  #92  
Old 07-26-17, 07:37 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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James can easily leave after next season and come back to Cleveland for a farewell tour when he's 38 and broken down. He knows Cleveland won't say no.
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  #93  
Old 07-26-17, 08:36 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I'm actually hearing people blame Gilbert not retaining Griffin for Kyrie's trade request. Evidently Griffin was "The Kyrie Whisperer".
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  #94  
Old 07-26-17, 08:47 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I've seen a lot of that too. I don't get it. I still think Gilbert is a sh*t owner. But he has nothing to do with Kyrie wanting to leave.
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  #95  
Old 07-26-17, 09:09 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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If you have a pos owner, it's all connected. Griffin, Billups, bad contracts, Kryie, etc. The good news is he can coast on Lebron for at least another year.
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  #96  
Old 07-26-17, 10:27 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Think Gilbert will write another comic sans letter when Kyrie leaves? What about when Lebron leaves the 2nd time?
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  #97  
Old 07-26-17, 11:53 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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Get out of town Kyrie,Rose stays healthy he will take your minutes..BAM!
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  #98  
Old 07-26-17, 02:34 PM
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Cavs great offseason.
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  #99  
Old 07-26-17, 03:14 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Why do the Cavs care if Kyrie wants out of town? Do they really think he will be too big of a distraction if he stays? Tell him to suck it up and worry about it next year. Adding Rose and maybe one other player could be enough to get to the finals and hope that Golden State slips up.
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  #100  
Old 07-26-17, 03:23 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by SLAGuy View Post
Why do the Cavs care if Kyrie wants out of town? Do they really think he will be too big of a distraction if he stays? Tell him to suck it up and worry about it next year. Adding Rose and maybe one other player could be enough to get to the finals and hope that Golden State slips up.
Should be enough to get to the Finals and if GS slips up, definitely the favorite though not because of Rose.

Sounds like LeBron doesn't want him if he doesn't want LeBron. A lot of people comparing this to Kobe and Shaq, but once the trade demand is out there, it's hard to keep things the same.
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  #101  
Old 07-26-17, 03:24 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Cavs need to know the window is closing. Kyrie for another superstar coming in to win next year would be OK. Trading for draft picks would be stupid. With the Cavs history at using top picks, might as well just throw at a dart board at the top 30 players. Probably would do better that way.
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  #102  
Old 07-26-17, 05:16 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by SLAGuy View Post
Why do the Cavs care if Kyrie wants out of town? Do they really think he will be too big of a distraction if he stays? Tell him to suck it up and worry about it next year. Adding Rose and maybe one other player could be enough to get to the finals and hope that Golden State slips up.
Because trading him now gets a better deal than trading him next July. They're still the favorites to go to the Finals even without Irving.
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  #103  
Old 07-26-17, 05:51 PM
JediMaster JediMaster is offline
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Kyrie and Tristan Thompson for NO's Rajon Rondo, Boogie and 2 2nd-rounders. Boom
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  #104  
Old 07-26-17, 06:52 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Because trading him now gets a better deal than trading him next July. They're still the favorites to go to the Finals even without Irving.
Cavs goal should be winning a championship. That window is closing. They have a better chance with Kyrie this season than without. Who cares what they get next July when Lebron is gone too. The ride will be over.
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  #105  
Old 07-26-17, 07:59 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Hate to break it to you, but they aren't winning a title when one of the two best guys doesn't want to be there. He's already checked out on being a part of the Cavs, and especially on being LeBron's teammate. The Irving/LeBron and Irving/Cavs relationships are already beyond repair.
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  #106  
Old 07-26-17, 09:12 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
Kyrie and Tristan Thompson for NO's Rajon Rondo, Boogie and 2 2nd-rounders. Boom
Why would the Pelicans go for that?

Some of these trade proposals are just absurd. The Suns aren't giving up Booker and now they're saying Jackson is off the table. The Cavs don't have as much leverage as many thought they would. Whoever let the cat out of the bag that Kyrie wants to leave, ruined the best leverage that Cleveland had if they just tried shopping him and keeping it all quiet.
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  #107  
Old 07-26-17, 09:15 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Hate to break it to you, but they aren't winning a title when one of the two best guys doesn't want to be there. He's already checked out on being a part of the Cavs, and especially on being LeBron's teammate. The Irving/LeBron and Irving/Cavs relationships are already beyond repair.
This would be the reason why the Cavs have no leverage. If this is true, there's no way you can keep him. Even the teams that want Kyrie badly just need to wait until Gilbert caves and decides to unload him before sht hits the fan.
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  #108  
Old 07-26-17, 09:21 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Their leverage isn't that great, but IMO somebody will still pay decently to control Irving for two years. Borderline max-level (30% of the cap) offensive production with a deal at 19-20% of the cap is going to be enticing to someone. The only question is who.

I think this probably ends up being a simpler deal with fringe star vet + recent lottery pick + 1st rounder or "blue chipper" + vet being exchanged for Kyrie. PHX comes off of Jackson, and IMO they get a deal done quickly if the Cavs aren't concerned about Bledsoe's injury history.

This could get really dicey if it rolls through November and December. I still think somebody caves, especially if they have a decent cap situation and can conceivably add another star before Irving's contract comes up.
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  #109  
Old 07-26-17, 09:29 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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All the more reason to tell him to suck it up. Someone else comes along and really wants him, make the trade for reasonable talent in return. Otherwise, play out the season and let him be a miserable flat Earth millionaire.
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  #110  
Old 07-26-17, 10:15 PM
JediMaster JediMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Why would the Pelicans go for that?

Some of these trade proposals are just absurd. The Suns aren't giving up Booker and now they're saying Jackson is off the table. The Cavs don't have as much leverage as many thought they would. Whoever let the cat out of the bag that Kyrie wants to leave, ruined the best leverage that Cleveland had if they just tried shopping him and keeping it all quiet.
Because both Rondo and Cousins have 1 year left on their contracts, Kyrie and Thompson both have at least two, and they're considerably younger than the Pelicans' counter-parts. IF the Cavs want to compete in the finals next year and if the Pelicans want to get in the playoff picture for a couple seasons (entering the Brows' prime years) and be just 1 more piece away from being a deadly team themselves, it helps them too.
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  #111  
Old 07-27-17, 07:25 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by SLAGuy View Post
Cavs goal should be winning a championship. That window is closing. They have a better chance with Kyrie this season than without. Who cares what they get next July when Lebron is gone too. The ride will be over.
Yeah, and that goal is more obtainable when they have someone who wants to play in Cleveland. Not with someone who has checked out. We don't even know what they will be getting for Kyrie so it's a pretty dumb statement to make. While possible, there's no indication LeBron is leaving next year either.
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  #112  
Old 07-27-17, 07:25 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Why would the Pelicans go for that?

Some of these trade proposals are just absurd. The Suns aren't giving up Booker and now they're saying Jackson is off the table. The Cavs don't have as much leverage as many thought they would. Whoever let the cat out of the bag that Kyrie wants to leave, ruined the best leverage that Cleveland had if they just tried shopping him and keeping it all quiet.
Fwiw, the Cavs repeatedly said Wiggins was off the table for the Love trade and yet he's in Minnesota. I agree they won't be giving up Booker and Jackson though. And I don't agree they don't have leverage. He still has 2 years plus a player option (99% to be declined, but still). This isn't a rent a player type trade.
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  #113  
Old 07-27-17, 07:30 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
Because both Rondo and Cousins have 1 year left on their contracts, Kyrie and Thompson both have at least two, and they're considerably younger than the Pelicans' counter-parts. IF the Cavs want to compete in the finals next year and if the Pelicans want to get in the playoff picture for a couple seasons (entering the Brows' prime years) and be just 1 more piece away from being a deadly team themselves, it helps them too.
The Pelicans have arguably the 2 best big men in the league. While GS is killing it with small ball, IIRC, they tend to get beat when Timmy + Pau were both on the Spurs. The Pelicans aren't challenging the Warriors this year but they have the right blueprint path. I'd be surprised if they give up on that.
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  #114  
Old 07-27-17, 07:34 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
Because both Rondo and Cousins have 1 year left on their contracts, Kyrie and Thompson both have at least two, and they're considerably younger than the Pelicans' counter-parts. IF the Cavs want to compete in the finals next year and if the Pelicans want to get in the playoff picture for a couple seasons (entering the Brows' prime years) and be just 1 more piece away from being a deadly team themselves, it helps them too.
Well hey you tried to explain. For starters, Cousins and Thompson are the same age. Rondo is pretty long in the tooth but I understand why he'd be included (though I think he fits better with Davis than Kyrie). Here's why Cousins won't get moved until at least January, likely closer to the deadline if at all: he and Davis have barely played together. Not even half a season. They have the entire offseason to figured out how to use both guys. Also think that the Pelicans would try to go for a bigger fish than Kyrie if/when they go to trade Cousins (assuming it doesn't work). Bottom line that's an awful deal for the Pelicans, especially the two draft picks at the back end.
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  #115  
Old 07-27-17, 07:39 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Fwiw, the Cavs repeatedly said Wiggins was off the table for the Love trade and yet he's in Minnesota. I agree they won't be giving up Booker and Jackson though. And I don't agree they don't have leverage. He still has 2 years plus a player option (99% to be declined, but still). This isn't a rent a player type trade.
That was the Cavs protecting Wiggins on the off chance they were forced to keep him. As soon as LeBron signed he didn't want anything to do with Wiggins. No one in Phoenix can say that about Jackson. The leverage of 2 years left on the contract went out the window when everyone found out he wants out, and once LeBron basically said good riddance.
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  #116  
Old 07-27-17, 08:02 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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I'm actually hearing people blame Gilbert not retaining Griffin for Kyrie's trade request. Evidently Griffin was "The Kyrie Whisperer".
The owner has created a stigma of instability that permeates throughout the organization. In Kyrie's short career (all with the Cavs) he has played for FOUR different coaches, and is now on his THIRD general manager. The Cavs have no future after LeBron because the owner has no idea what he's doing. This kind of stuff rarely goes down in stable organizations with good ownership
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  #117  
Old 07-27-17, 08:12 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
That was the Cavs protecting Wiggins on the off chance they were forced to keep him. As soon as LeBron signed he didn't want anything to do with Wiggins. No one in Phoenix can say that about Jackson. The leverage of 2 years left on the contract went out the window when everyone found out he wants out, and once LeBron basically said good riddance.
Maybe my memory was off but they weren't trading for Love until after LeBron signed. There was no need to protect Wiggins. And I disagree on the leverage still. He's a top 5ish PG, 25 years old and on a very team friendly contract.
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  #118  
Old 07-27-17, 08:37 AM
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The owner has created a stigma of instability that permeates throughout the organization. In Kyrie's short career (all with the Cavs) he has played for FOUR different coaches, and is now on his THIRD general manager. The Cavs have no future after LeBron because the owner has no idea what he's doing. This kind of stuff rarely goes down in stable organizations with good ownership
And, yet the Cavs have won a championship under Gilbert's toxic ownership. I don't get the assigning blame to Gilbert. Yes, he has had some surreal moments as the owner, but he has also stepped up and paid an exorbitant amount of luxury tax because he bought in to the "win now" mentality. I get a good laugh over some of these folks who suddenly are concerned about the post-LeBron era, whenever that happens. Seriously? The whole franchise is geared to winning while James is still James. They traded away future assets to bolster the roster, and some of those decisions were an over-reach to mollify James. Some of that has to fall to Griffin.

I don't think it was Gilbert's ownership that made Irving seek a change of address. In my opinion, I think Irving comes off as a spoiled brat with a short-sighted perspective of what it means for a team to be "his". Where is he going to go and automatically make that team a contender? Maybe the larger question is, does he care if that team is a contender as long as he's the recognized leader?
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  #119  
Old 07-27-17, 09:43 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Maybe my memory was off but they weren't trading for Love until after LeBron signed. There was no need to protect Wiggins. And I disagree on the leverage still. He's a top 5ish PG, 25 years old and on a very team friendly contract.
Yes, so that's what I mean. LeBron wanted Love and didn't want Wiggins, but the Cavs couldn't come out and just say that on the off chance they weren't able to work out a deal for Love and therefore had to keep him.

I agree that Kyrie is a good young player and there is definitely a market for him, but the Cavs brass think they're going to gut someone in a trade for him. That's simply not going to happen. If teams were willing to sell the farm to Cleveland a trade would have been made already.
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  #120  
Old 07-27-17, 10:33 AM
McK93 McK93 is offline
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And, yet the Cavs have won a championship under Gilbert's toxic ownership. I don't get the assigning blame to Gilbert. Yes, he has had some surreal moments as the owner, but he has also stepped up and paid an exorbitant amount of luxury tax because he bought in to the "win now" mentality. I get a good laugh over some of these folks who suddenly are concerned about the post-LeBron era, whenever that happens. Seriously? The whole franchise is geared to winning while James is still James. They traded away future assets to bolster the roster, and some of those decisions were an over-reach to mollify James. Some of that has to fall to Griffin.

I don't think it was Gilbert's ownership that made Irving seek a change of address. In my opinion, I think Irving comes off as a spoiled brat with a short-sighted perspective of what it means for a team to be "his". Where is he going to go and automatically make that team a contender? Maybe the larger question is, does he care if that team is a contender as long as he's the recognized leader?


I'm no Gilbert apologist but he is the only owner in Cleveland history to spend the money necessary to win. The word was Griffin wanted 7-8 million a year to be the GM. I would have told him no too.
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