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  #1  
Old 10-13-17, 03:23 PM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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Recruited remorse?

Every Fall, we begin to see the the number of underclass and senior baseball athletes, along w/ their respective travel organizations, tweeting away about their recent commitments to the university of their choice, to quote a phrase, being "blessed to continue their academic and athletic career at so and so college" It certainly can be an exciting time for any kid, their family, and respective baseball people. Seems pretty easy to add up the multitude of individual commitments, via PBR, Field Level, various tweets etc. What I would like to know, is how many of these in coming freshmen actually end up making a college varsity team, get put on the jv team if there is one, get red shirted, or simply quit or decide not to play after the Fall season? After watching a decent amount of college fall baseball, including my son's school of choice, there seem to be so many variables. Some of these D3 programs had over 50 kids listed on their rosters. Not as many at D2, but up to 30 plus. The dugouts got pretty tight, w/many not getting any game time. Stats tell us that up to 33% of college baseball players don't play a full 4 years. Many transfer, quit, for a variety of reasons. Not every kid, recruited or not, makes it thru Fall baseball. Some of these universities allow 50 plus kids, to attend Fall ball, but end up cutting a good amount, after the kid's tuition is in the bank. If a freshman at say D2, makes the varsity travel team via Fall ball, that seems to be a successful accomplishment, and if a kid gets decent playing time during Fall, he should be even more proud. I have seen a few new freshman already come to the realization that they may not be in the teams plans, just after Fall ball concluded. Just wish that so many of these kids and their families realized beforehand how difficult a transition it was from high school/summer travel ball, to playing at a competitive college level. Every kid is talented, most are older and more experience, and above all, college coaches want to win, and consequently play their top athletes. No surprise there, you would think. But I was amazed how many parents sat at college Fall ball games complaining their kid wasn't getting a chance, or spoke about how bad another kid was, etc. So many of these organizations, and especially parents over hype their kids, to the point the ball player's actually believe the hype too. College baseball is tough, maybe certain recruits just aren't ready for what it takes to play the game at that level.
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  #2  
Old 10-13-17, 04:08 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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It's posts like these that will go a long way in educating the parents. Unfortunately, the people that need to read it the most probably overlook it because they think it is "meant for someone else."

Not too long ago, I heard of a parent of a middle school kid talking about how his kid is "on the path to college baseball." No way that guy reads a post like this. I'm going to keep an eye out on this kid to see where he ends up but I'm fairly certain that his Dad will be a parent in 6-7 years telling people how difficult the baseball process is and that people shouldn't count on too much unless their kid is a freak of nature (ie Aaron Judge).

One last thing, I do agree with the parents in the stands that their kids aren't getting a chance. Those 50 kids on the roster need to be aware of this going in. Baseball is the one sport where it isn't obvious who the best player is. Coaches make quick decisions on their best available evidence and intuition. Kids move around on baseball teams more than any other sport because they are looking for a coach that sees them differently than their previous coach. Baseball is also the one sport where coaches fail in their evaluations more than any other sport. Just look at the difference in success of the first round MLB, NFL, and NBA draft picks. There is a reason the NBA only needs two rounds.

The point is even if you ARE the best player, there is no guarantee that the coach will see it that way and there is also no guarantee that you will play your best when the coach is evaluating.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-17, 04:45 PM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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Like any father, I am vested in my son's future in college, academics being first, then baseball. But I have learned to just observe from a safe distance. Most of the real work is done during the hours of practice during the week, and we as his parents simply see the results on the weekend during this past fall season. So many factors go into the process. But, one of the biggest deficiencies so many incoming freshman have, is their lack of strength. Many are being introduced to a real weight training program for the first time. This attributes much to their lack of endurance and conditioning when they begin the typical practice schedule of a competitive college team. As my son has informed me, "I now am playing with and against grown men, lol" You have to be physically ready to compete, and so many kids playing typical travel baseball, who aspire to play in college, simply aren't prepared for this reality. Guess a kid needs a few breaks too. Injuries happen, and if an opportunity arises at your position due to an injury, be ready. Last simple words of advice for parents of aspiring baseball recruits, go watch a few good college teams, and pay attention to the talent level and competitive play. Now, convince yourself you son is good enough to play at that level.
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  #4  
Old 10-14-17, 08:30 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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I can't speak for D2 or D3 as my son is at a D1, but the first thing I see is that the number of kids on those rosters is ridiculous. Don't D2 and D3 still only play 9 kids at a time? Why in the world would you need 50? Most don't have JV teams making it even more ridiculous. I think kids have to realize this going in and be prepared for it. My son's freshman year they had 6 kids come in with him that were all 1st team all Ohio with phenomenal stats. Now as juniors, a couple are gone and a few haven't seen much playing time...and that's on a roster of 33....double that and it makes sense that not many kids play. Heck, UNOH in Lima brings in over 80 in the fall knowing full well that at least half will be gone by spring. You mentioned parents watching fall ball on Saturday and saying their kid doesn't get a chance....keep in mind they already had 5 days of practice that week, where he probably saw some time on the field. The problem with college is that with that many kids, you don't get many chances....if your first impression is rough, it's going to be really hard to get back in the mix. I've seen it with several kids at my son's school.....and that's even if the kids on the field struggle. College coaches, more than HS seem to get "stuck" with a playing certain kids and aren't as willing to make a change as HS coaches are. Why? I have no idea. I think the biggest thing is that kids need to make sure they understand what they are getting in to. College baseball is hard....it's not an everybody plays situation, even in a blowout. The starters tend to play...the bench guys sit the bench...and once you're on the bench, it's really hard to get on the field.
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  #5  
Old 10-15-17, 07:20 PM
jj150 jj150 is offline
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What was said above is spot on. One of BG starters is a former walk on. Not sure he even has a scholarship now. A lot of D 3 schools have multiple players at every position. That level is more about recruiting tuition $$ than anything. Why else do you need 4 second basemen 5 catchers etc for 35 games....
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  #6  
Old 10-16-17, 07:59 AM
rookiecard rookiecard is offline
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Excellent thread and well stated. College baseball is a reality check for kids and parents. The summer ball hype they think they bought stardom status with comes to an abrupt end and rude awakening for the majority out there. What I have forever told any high school parent and player that ask me where they should go to school to play baseball is this, choose a college that fits your educational needs first, financial means second, and baseball a distant third. Colleges are institutions of learning, not a baseball playground to get you on a fast track to the major leagues. As stated in the start of thread, 33% of kids will not play 4 full years of college ball. Kids learn quickly that college sports are jobs and very time consuming beyond practice time on the field. Kids suddenly realize they have limited social life's and no time to study. When they re-evaluate how to spend their time and what is really important in life, i.e. good grades and getting a diploma in 4 years. Suddenly all the spin marketing and hype they heard from all the almighty summer organizations they played for, and the player evaluation showcases put on by money grab scammers they attended, mean nothing now. Unfortunately this cycle will play itself out over and over again in the years to come and those who really need to read this thread will fall into this trap. The saddest statement I heard recently from the father of a very good current high school senior baseball player, is that he wished he had spent all the baseball lesson and showcase money on tutoring and educational courses to better prepare him for college. I think more than just him are now figuring this out the hard way.
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  #7  
Old 10-16-17, 11:29 AM
NilesDragon1 NilesDragon1 is offline
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Very good thread! Definitely a lot of good information since I am currently a parent going through the process. I paid for a few pitching lessons here and there, because I wanted him taught how to pitch from someone that actually knew what they were doing, not some part time little league or travel coach. I did not pay for or buy into any of the showcases, and so glad I didn't. I was a firm believer that if my kid was good enough, they would find him, regardless of where he played his HS ball.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-17, 02:08 PM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesDragon1 View Post
Very good thread! Definitely a lot of good information since I am currently a parent going through the process. I paid for a few pitching lessons here and there, because I wanted him taught how to pitch from someone that actually knew what they were doing, not some part time little league or travel coach. I did not pay for or buy into any of the showcases, and so glad I didn't. I was a firm believer that if my kid was good enough, they would find him, regardless of where he played his HS ball.
That isn't necessarily true. My son never had one coach come see him play in HS....a couple D3 guys came out, but no D1's. All the recruitment happened either at showcases or in summer travel ball. Unless your son is a high level prospect or plays on a team where coaches can come see multiple kids in one game, don't expect him to be found. Sure it happens, but kids being found/recruited only thru HS games and not a showcase or travel team are in the minority
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  #9  
Old 10-16-17, 03:42 PM
rookiecard rookiecard is offline
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TCGObucks, where did he end up playing in college?
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  #10  
Old 10-17-17, 10:36 AM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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What can be frustrating, after going thru this process with two son's, is seeing certain kids, many of which I have seen play for years, get locked into the belief that they are better than the D3 level prospect they actually are, and thus refuse to consider the potential D3 options available to them. Seeing some of these young men accept some kind of undisclosed "offer" from another college program this early, considering their talent level, can be frustrating, knowing what we know. What exactly is the offer? Unless some kid is a blue chip athlete, doubtful that any substantive offer will come any kids way after just one unofficial college visit. Kids and parents have to use some common sense. Certain schools never disclose exactly what their plans for these future recruits, during the face to face time w/the coach. Red flag flying everywhere if a coach can't explain how he sees a kid fitting into their program now, and into the future. Does the school have a jv team? If so, how many kids do they roster? Does the coach plan on you playing JV? How much academic money is potentially available? Lastly, does the young man have a guaranteed roster spot on varsity? Or, does the kid simply become one of over 50 kids looking to play their freshman season w/this college? I just hate to see really good kids, get drawn into a college situation, where in all honesty, they have little to no chance of every playing, just because a kid and his family, and, believe the young man has the talent to play at a high level D2 program. It can be such a disservice to the young man, just for the sake of declaring early, like that is some kind of badge of honor. Time to be real, top recruits typically declare and sigh early, not kids who don't fit that athletic pedigree.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-17, 01:45 PM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Not to be too cynical but like most things....follow the money. Baseball scholarships are not like football and hoops at D1 level, very rare to see full ride. If D1 school is giving your son 50% or more then most of the time they are serious about obtaining his services. The higher the % the better of course. Then once they are that invested in the kid they will give him more chances to succeed than a kid who is a preferred walk-on or lower % schollie kid. D2 even less money to work with and they have the herd mentality that several have already spoke of. Bring in 30 freshmen per year and maybe 5 or 6 getting some money. Others being told they can earn money with their play. They have 40-50 kids in the program with the bottom 15-20 playing some JV games. If a kid is playing JV his second year then I would guess he is not going to ever play much varsity. Then D3 has no athletic $ so they herd them in as well. Same deal with 40-50 kids in the Fall battling it out. A new group of 30 coming every Fall. Most D2 and D3 coaches have a financial tie to how many kids they bring into the school for their sport so they are not going to turn anyone away. There is a lot of attrition at the D2-D3 level because of this.
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Old 10-18-17, 09:19 AM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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The top D2 teams rarely have either a jv team, nor carry more than of 35. They may redshirt a few kids, typically freshman pitchers, and carry around 30 kids on their travel squad. They don't "over recruit to boost income to the university via having these kids pay tuition upfront, only to find themselves cut, or warming a jv bench, as so may college programs typically do. Nor do they bring in 30 plus freshman to fight for minimal roster spots, or have an "open" tryout. That's why it's so important for the families to reverse things, sort of like them recruiting the college, instead of the opposite. Don't get sucked into the false promises, do your research. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are a special recruit just because you son and 10 other kids had an unofficial overnight visit at the school. That visit is more for the college's benefit than the baseball program. Just check the roster size of the college baseball team of your choice on the internet, see if they have a jv team. Check the players on the roster, see which positions, and what class level these kids currently are. Then read the varsity players bio's, and get a feel for what talent level those kid actually have. After that, do you still think you can be that special recruit who will play early on in your college baseball career? Or do your established skills and accomplishments fall short of that level?

Last edited by Hitnrun; 10-18-17 at 09:30 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-18-17, 10:08 AM
Baseball4Life! Baseball4Life! is offline
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Three years ago I was coaching high school and travel ball. That last year of travel ball (2015) I had 2 kids commit to D1, 2 commit to D2, and 12 go D3. This was between high school and travel teams. The D1/D2 kids are still playing. Two D3 kids have switched to NAIA. Every other kid quit during or after the first year. I was told they never received the playing time they were "promised". They were switched to different positions. Some to positions they had never played. A lot of these kids picked the school that offered the most academic money and never thought of where they were going to have to be for the next 4 years.

I have always tried to tell the players to pick the school first and then the baseball program. I had a kid that was getting an offer from D1 Oakland but he chose D3 OHNU instead. He played 4 years of baseball and was tops in his engineering class. For those that are going to say what if my son has a bad coach but loves the school? Well the kid I mentioned did not like his coach. He formed a bond with an assistant and was very productive. Unfortunately most of the kids just take the most money or the first offer from a school that is higher up the food chain than the teams that have been looking at them and they end up back home going to the local branch.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-17, 07:17 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Thank you the insight. Given me much food for thought

Last edited by BASESWIMPARENT; 10-18-17 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 10-20-17, 12:00 PM
NilesDragon1 NilesDragon1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
That isn't necessarily true. My son never had one coach come see him play in HS....a couple D3 guys came out, but no D1's. All the recruitment happened either at showcases or in summer travel ball. Unless your son is a high level prospect or plays on a team where coaches can come see multiple kids in one game, don't expect him to be found. Sure it happens, but kids being found/recruited only thru HS games and not a showcase or travel team are in the minority
My son did play travel ball from the age of 10 through his freshman year. After that, he played on a summer ball team, but did not travel. He did attend 1 showcase that was put on at Cene Park in Youngstown, but all that seemed to do was generate a ton of junk email.
You are right though, it isn't necessarily the case that if they are good enough they will be seen. It has just been my philosophy. Maybe that is a product of there being so many showcases put on by so many companies, you don't know who to trust and which ones are worth it and that is a lot of money to throw around. I told my son to pick a few schools of interest and I would send him to their "Prospect Camps" at their facilities to try to get him on their radar. I felt that was money better spent.
He is going into his senior season, so we will see what happens.
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Old 10-20-17, 01:46 PM
Baseballfan20 Baseballfan20 is offline
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If your son has not made drastic improvement over the course of the year there is little reason to keep going to showcase after showcase. If they have been to 1 open ID then they have been at all of them. The numbers go into the database and can be seen by the coaches sorted in anyway they want. GPA, ACT, 60 time, they have all of it.

I will say that if they are invited to events with a select group of prospects then that is probably worth looking into. Ive seen 100s of coaches at PBR and other companies underclassman games. Would also give a run and the unsigned sr games as well if they really want to play college baseball and have little to go on. Your not getting the top dogs there but if your son was that good he probably wouldn't need that showcase anyways at that point.

Be smart. It sounds so obvious but parents run kids all over the country to play and see little return in the end. Enjoy HS and summer baseball, get better and your talent will take you.
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Old 10-20-17, 02:33 PM
HomeRunsNDunks HomeRunsNDunks is online now
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I would say getting on a top travel team at this point is just confirming ability more than anything at this point. If your kid is that good (meaning hits 85+, exit velocity 90+, runs 60 in 6.9<,) then get a radar gun, get it on video and send it out. A travel team most times now will help you do that and allow the kid to train. In my experience, played on a pretty bad "daddy" ball team until his senior year. Then joined a top team in the area (in October of senior year), went to the team's workouts, the director of the program set him up with schools that matched his athletic and baseball profile. A few months later, went on visits, threw in front of those coaches, committed in February. Ended up redshirting his first year and will likely get some bullpen time this year. When looking at schools, I would not hesitate to ask about the players that are currently playing there. If you want to walk on and play at a D1 and you're a pitcher, do they have any pitchers that fit your profile? If you plan to make your career as a crafty lefty and this school only has guys in the upper 80's to low 90's, the odds you ever get a chance is slim to none, even if you deal in every fall scrimmage you get in (if they give you that chance). If you're calling card is hitting the long ball, don't go to a program that wants you to sacrifice every guy to third and you will get yelled at for hitting the ball in the air. Find a program that will allow you to develop your strengths and not the biggest or best offer. More than likely you will transfer if they don't align.
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Old 10-24-17, 10:51 AM
TheValleyMan TheValleyMan is offline
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Bottom line is if freshmen aren't physically capable of competing when they walk on campus they will get red shirted or they will leave the program. It's not about how many swings you take or groundballs you field before you get to the fall season. It's more about how much you prepared your body and mind for the grind. So get the team's lifting program and follow it all summer before you arrive at school.
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Old 10-25-17, 10:23 AM
southwest1 southwest1 is offline
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Better off at Junior college than D3. Competition is better for the most part and you can improve and move on to 4 year school having shown that you can handle academics and sports. And even without scholarships it will only cost you about 20% of the cost at a D3 program.
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Old 10-25-17, 01:01 PM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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Juco options for baseball can be a better choice for some, ie: kids who believe they actually are going to be drafted (very few), or higher level prospects who need to improve their grades before taking their established talents to a D1. or D2 school (again, fewer than most juco programs lead you to believe). In reality, how many kids on a juco baseball roster of 40 or more are actually going to move on to the next level? Sure there will be some, but the vast majority of most kids on juco rosters are there for financial and academic reasons. Sure, they have been led to believe by their respective baseball organizations that juco can lead them to the promised land of a D1 or D2 scholarship, which isn't the case for the majority of kids on most juco rosters. Many of these Juco kids actually end up completing their college baseball careers after their two years at the average juco. Just the way it is for most kids.
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Old 10-25-17, 07:58 PM
southwest1 southwest1 is offline
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About 130 JUCO players drafted in 2017 a little more than 10% of draftees. Many more went on to D1, D2, D3 or NAIA schools. You can be one of 50 players on a fall roster at D3 in the fall of go JUCO and have a better chance of playing as a freshman or sophomore and pay 80% less for school. D3 generally have better facilities, when you are paying 35,000 per year times 50 players you can afford that.
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Old 10-25-17, 09:40 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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I know one potential pro that went the JUCO route for one year and is now transferring to a D1 program here in Ohio. He went JUCO for grades and money reasons. Got picked up by a cheap D1 program

Last edited by BASESWIMPARENT; 10-25-17 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 10-26-17, 12:04 PM
Hitnrun Hitnrun is offline
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That's exactly why potential high draft choices attend a Juco, ie: like a Bryce Harper, etc. They in turn can be drafted thru their Juco at any time, and not subject to the NCAA draft regulations. But these guys, although comprising of 10% of college players drafted, still comprise a small portion of all juco players competing nation wide. The balance of JUCO kids who are fortunate enough to move on to a 4 year college to continue their baseball experience make up a smaller % of the total rosters. But, no doubt the JUCO programs are a great option for many, just don't think that every kid on those huge JUCO rosters are necessarily going to a D1, D2, roster.
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