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  #31  
Old 09-25-17, 10:26 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Unless the subbing rules changed in the ECNL, they're not the same as the Academy. My understanding is that once you're subbed out in the GDA, you're done for the match. ECNL rules are more analogous to MRL rules - if you're subbed out, you're done for the half and not the game.

GDA subbing rules are stupid. What percentage of the GDA players will be subjected to those rules after their GDA playing days are done? Probably less than 1/2 of 1%. The majority will be subjected to the NCAA subbing rules. What is the benefit of the GDA subbing rules? What is the GDA and, by default, the Cincinnati DA telling the players the benefit is?
Is it really that big of a deal? You make it sound like the kids will go on to play in college and need an entire year of readjustment to the substitution rules because they will be so confused. If anything its tougher on the coaches because of the strategic decisions they are now forced to make with every sub. As far as the players are concerned, the only real change they have to make is learning how to pace themselves. Unlimited subbing means everyon cant go balls to the wall because if they get too tired they can get a breather for a bit. Can't do that with the FIFA rules.
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  #32  
Old 09-26-17, 03:03 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Is it really that big of a deal? You make it sound like the kids will go on to play in college and need an entire year of readjustment to the substitution rules because they will be so confused. If anything its tougher on the coaches because of the strategic decisions they are now forced to make with every sub. As far as the players are concerned, the only real change they have to make is learning how to pace themselves. Unlimited subbing means everyon cant go balls to the wall because if they get too tired they can get a breather for a bit. Can't do that with the FIFA rules.
You're missing my point. I'm not quite sure how you deduced the confusion aspect from what I wrote.

My point, and you partially made my point for me, is that if a tiny fraction of the kids playing in the GDA are going to play soccer in an atmosphere that is subjected to the FIFA rules, why play like that now? Is the rule of getting subbed out in the half and not being able to come back in until the next half really that bad? Hell, that's even more restrictive than what most of the players will be governed by.

More players should be able to, as you say, play "balls to the wall" and at a better pace for a longer period of time. That is what collegiate coaches will expect of them. The subbing rules of the GDA will not prepare kids for that. If you ever get the chance to watch a player on Michigan State' women's team, Jamie Cheslik, do so. She's an absolute motor and plays at the same pace in minute 90 that she played in minute 1. That is what is expected of kids in college.
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  #33  
Old 09-26-17, 04:30 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
You're missing my point. I'm not quite sure how you deduced the confusion aspect from what I wrote.

My point, and you partially made my point for me, is that if a tiny fraction of the kids playing in the GDA are going to play soccer in an atmosphere that is subjected to the FIFA rules, why play like that now? Is the rule of getting subbed out in the half and not being able to come back in until the next half really that bad? Hell, that's even more restrictive than what most of the players will be governed by.

More players should be able to, as you say, play "balls to the wall" and at a better pace for a longer period of time. That is what collegiate coaches will expect of them. The subbing rules of the GDA will not prepare kids for that. If you ever get the chance to watch a player on Michigan State' women's team, Jamie Cheslik, do so. She's an absolute motor and plays at the same pace in minute 90 that she played in minute 1. That is what is expected of kids in college.
But they aren't preparing them for college, or at least I've never read anything stating that is one of their goals. The purpose of the DA is to get them prepared for the possibility of national and professional competition. If that isn't the specific path you want your child on then you should choose a different option. Nothing wrong with doing that. Having more, not less options is better in my opinion.

Like I've said before, it's not as if the DA is going to completely dismantle and recreate the landscape of US youth soccer. It does however streamline and focus a specific segment of players within youth soccer for a different and, of course we all can argue for or against, better path to higher level play. Since it doesn't destroy the current systems in place for kids to play soccer, I don't see why it's bad if they structure the DA different. Again, nobody is forced to join them. Choice is a good thing. If they made the DA like every other US program then what's the purpose of even having it?

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Last edited by Philly_Cat; 09-26-17 at 05:45 AM..
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  #34  
Old 09-26-17, 06:44 AM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Unless the subbing rules changed in the ECNL, they're not the same as the Academy. My understanding is that once you're subbed out in the GDA, you're done for the match. ECNL rules are more analogous to MRL rules - if you're subbed out, you're done for the half and not the game.

GDA subbing rules are stupid. What percentage of the GDA players will be subjected to those rules after their GDA playing days are done? Probably less than 1/2 of 1%. The majority will be subjected to the NCAA subbing rules. What is the benefit of the GDA subbing rules? What is the GDA and, by default, the Cincinnati DA telling the players the benefit is?
My bad, I meant it in regards to the carding upon subbing. Yeah ECNL is per half much like the older State Cup games are done.

Perhaps the GDA does it that way because of the larger rosters. I'll try and pay attention to how well divided the play time is.

Philly, does your son play Pre-DA? My daughter has a friend at school who plays on that team. They are a pretty talented group of players .
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  #35  
Old 09-26-17, 05:01 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 5x26 View Post
My bad, I meant it in regards to the carding upon subbing. Yeah ECNL is per half much like the older State Cup games are done.

Perhaps the GDA does it that way because of the larger rosters. I'll try and pay attention to how well divided the play time is.

Philly, does your son play Pre-DA? My daughter has a friend at school who plays on that team. They are a pretty talented group of players .
Full disclosure, I have a son that is an 05 playing on the 13u DA team. He's been with Cincinnati United since he was 5. So everyone knows my potential biases upfront. We do know a lot of the kids on the pre-da team. My son has said he thinks next year he wants to play pre-da instead so he can play football and maybe baseball again.
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  #36  
Old 09-29-17, 09:59 AM
Red Devil Red Devil is offline
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GDA subbing rules benefits

The GDA is only beginning & a "work in progress" yet the DA subbing rules have forced my daughter to reconsider how she eats and fuels her body. The sub & done along with the limit of five subs forces some field players to play the entire game. Since all these players are highly competitive & are craving playing time it benefits in developing the attitude/ effort needed to play at a high level.
I can't speak for the CDA, since my daughter plays for a GDA out of state, but her experience so far has been beyond great. I'll be interested in the thoughts of college coaches as they attend the GDA winter showcase.
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  #37  
Old 09-30-17, 07:37 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
The GDA is only beginning & a "work in progress" yet the DA subbing rules have forced my daughter to reconsider how she eats and fuels her body. The sub & done along with the limit of five subs forces some field players to play the entire game. Since all these players are highly competitive & are craving playing time it benefits in developing the attitude/ effort needed to play at a high level.
I can't speak for the CDA, since my daughter plays for a GDA out of state, but her experience so far has been beyond great. I'll be interested in the thoughts of college coaches as they attend the GDA winter showcase.
Interesting perspective on the sub rule effects. These are the types of commentary I was hoping to hear about when I started this thread. Not so much "DA sucks, ECNL is king!"
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  #38  
Old 09-30-17, 01:30 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
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[QUOTE=Philly_Cat;6849492]But they aren't preparing them for college, or at least I've never read anything stating that is one of their goals. The purpose of the DA is to get them prepared for the possibility of national and professional competition. If that isn't the specific path you want your child on then you should choose a different option. Nothing wrong with doing that. Having more, not less options is better in my opinion.



The chance that any player coming out of Cinci will make it this far is ridiculously slim. People need to get a clue about how unlikely it is for even the best player in the age group, or in an age group span of 5 years to make it to the top level. Just do the math....how many GDA teams, how many players, how many spots in the national pool.....what it takes to make it that far...

Now I am not saying playing at a high level is not a great reason to play DA. But to say that this is "preparing them to play at the national level or professionally" is just silly. Those players come around once in a generation in a region like Greater Cinci. If parents are being told this then they are getting sold a fake promise. Yes your daughter may be the best in Cinci or the best in Ohio but even then, look at the numbers....
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  #39  
Old 09-30-17, 01:46 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
The chance that any player coming out of Cinci will make it this far is ridiculously slim. People need to get a clue about how unlikely it is for even the best player in the age group, or in an age group span of 5 years to make it to the top level. Just do the math....how many GDA teams, how many players, how many spots in the national pool.....what it takes to make it that far...

Now I am not saying playing at a high level is not a great reason to play DA. But to say that this is "preparing them to play at the national level or professionally" is just silly. Those players come around once in a generation in a region like Greater Cinci. If parents are being told this then they are getting sold a fake promise. Yes your daughter may be the best in Cinci or the best in Ohio but even then, look at the numbers....
Nothing is ever promised in life. Nobody is promising a spot on a world cup team. It's all about opportunities and maximizing your chance for opportunities and what you do with them. Success is about maximizing opportunities with some luck mixed in.As a person, young or old, it's on you to evaluate your available opportunities and choose what you feel is best for you to accomplish your goals. It really is as simple as that.

Here are my questions for you. If a player chooses this path and never makes a national team and never plays professional soccer, how are they hurt? Are you saying they won't be good enough to play college soccer? Are you saying the DA will lead kids to an eventual soccer dead end with nothing for them to gain? Why does a player choosing to play in the DA bother you so much that you feel you must be the champion of not playing in the DA? Ultimately, why do you care? (real question)

I feel yourself, and others like yourself, are the equivalent of people that would constantly post on a football forum with nothing but posts about how terrible football is because it's unsafe for players and is leading to brain damage. They come to a place that is there for people of like minds to congregate, talk, and even celebrate something they all like, only to tell them all to stop. As pointless and annoying as those people might be, at least they have a legitimate cause, players safety. What is your cause? What is the flag you're trying to fly for all to see the promised land?
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  #40  
Old 09-30-17, 07:15 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Nothing is ever promised in life. Nobody is promising a spot on a world cup team. It's all about opportunities and maximizing your chance for opportunities and what you do with them. Success is about maximizing opportunities with some luck mixed in.As a person, young or old, it's on you to evaluate your available opportunities and choose what you feel is best for you to accomplish your goals. It really is as simple as that.

Here are my questions for you. If a player chooses this path and never makes a national team and never plays professional soccer, how are they hurt? Are you saying they won't be good enough to play college soccer? Are you saying the DA will lead kids to an eventual soccer dead end with nothing for them to gain? Why does a player choosing to play in the DA bother you so much that you feel you must be the champion of not playing in the DA? Ultimately, why do you care? (real question)I feel yourself, and others like yourself, are the equivalent of people that would constantly post on a football forum with nothing but posts about how terrible football is because it's unsafe for players and is leading to brain damage. They come to a place that is there for people of like minds to congregate, talk, and even celebrate something they all like, only to tell them all to stop. As pointless and annoying as those people might be, at least they have a legitimate cause, players safety. What is your cause? What is the flag you're trying to fly for all to see the promised land?
Wow. Relax a bit. Maybe responses like this are why people hesitate to post anything. No need to attack. OK, so I am not against DA or playing at a high level, and I said that in my post if you read it. I am not a champion of not playing DA. I am supportive of DA. I really don't care a whole lot just trying to contribute to a soccer forum because I like talking soccer. Did I answer all of your questions?

I am saying that if the reason you are playing DA is to make it to the national team or the pros, well, more power to you and I admire your ambition, and who am I to crush anyone's dream, but the odds are that you will get there are slim. Just go into it with a realistic expectation. I have seen many players who are the best at age 12 and by the time they are 18 are just average players. Some of those parents had very unrealistic expectations for their child and they thought their child was a failure if they didn't make it. I remember reading a study from England on how they looked at the top players at the youth level at ages 12-15 over multiple years and then tracked them and the percent of those that actually made it to the top level was very, very low. I don't remember the exact details and the culture was different, but the point is that if you are BEST player in the region, and assuming there are 3 regions like that just in Ohio, 10 in Cali, 6 in Texas, etc, etc. you are still only in the top 100 in the nation. AND that is just one age group. AND you are assuming that you will remain at that level 5 years from now. More power to you to pursue that, that is what dreams are all about.

My response was to the line that went something like "the point of the DA is to get to the national team and not to play in college".
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  #41  
Old 09-30-17, 07:37 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
Wow. Relax a bit. Maybe responses like this are why people hesitate to post anything. No need to attack. OK, so I am not against DA or playing at a high level, and I said that in my post if you read it. I am not a champion of not playing DA. I am supportive of DA. I really don't care a whole lot just trying to contribute to a soccer forum because I like talking soccer. Did I answer all of your questions?

I am saying that if the reason you are playing DA is to make it to the national team or the pros, well, more power to you and I admire your ambition, and who am I to crush anyone's dream, but the odds are that you will get there are slim. Just go into it with a realistic expectation. I have seen many players who are the best at age 12 and by the time they are 18 are just average players. Some of those parents had very unrealistic expectations for their child and they thought their child was a failure if they didn't make it. I remember reading a study from England on how they looked at the top players at the youth level at ages 12-15 over multiple years and then tracked them and the percent of those that actually made it to the top level was very, very low. I don't remember the exact details and the culture was different, but the point is that if you are BEST player in the region, and assuming there are 3 regions like that just in Ohio, 10 in Cali, 6 in Texas, etc, etc. you are still only in the top 100 in the nation. AND that is just one age group. AND you are assuming that you will remain at that level 5 years from now. More power to you to pursue that, that is what dreams are all about.

My response was to the line that went something like "the point of the DA is to get to the national team and not to play in college".
I apologize. It's just that this site tends to grind on you after a while with the constant negativity. I reached that point with my post and I'm sorry.

With that said, you really never answered my questions. If a child has those aspirations, no matter how lofty, and they see this as the best path towards achieving them, why are they are wrong choosing that path? Or better question, how are they hurt by choosing this path?
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