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  #4591  
Old 10-19-17, 02:46 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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I'm confused here. This thread keeps talking about Trump lying but I can't quite figure out from all the posts on the topic what exactly Trump lied about. Is this about his conversation with the mom of the special forces soldier KIA in Niger? Because I'm seeing & hearing info saying Trump isn't lying here and maybe, just maybe a certain congress women may be shading the truth a bit.

So could one of you guys who are so gleefully calling Trump a liar describe for us Trumptards exactly what he lied about this time? It would also be helpful to see the evidence that he lied to.
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  #4592  
Old 10-19-17, 03:01 PM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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The family are backing up what the congresswoman said. But yeah, they’re all lying.

He also lied about having proof — there is no recording of the conversation.
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  #4593  
Old 10-19-17, 03:26 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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Bjayjay hates trump
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  #4594  
Old 10-19-17, 03:38 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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This whole argument is ridiculous. So what if Trump said what they reported he said. Trump is not a minister or psychiatrist. He did his best in an uncomfortable situation. Instead of acting classy, this devil congresswoman ran to the press to embarrass the President. It's a shameful situation and I haven't read anywhere, anyone condemning this vile woman.

Let's ask this congresswoman, is it REALLY helping the family by making President Trump's remarks public? Is it helping the country? Who exactly is it helping trying to embarrass the President?

Shame on this woman and shame on the reporters for not asking the only important question, why did you make this public?
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  #4595  
Old 10-19-17, 03:40 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
The family are backing up what the congresswoman said. But yeah, they’re all lying.

He also lied about having proof — there is no recording of the conversation.
I guess you would call this "Fake news" but general Kelly makes a compelling case in Trumps favor:

http://nypost.com/2017/10/19/kelly-d...ld-star-widow/

White House Chief of Staff John Kelly on Thursday gave a powerful defense of President Trump’s handling of a call to a Gold Star widow of a soldier who was killed in Niger — and ripped a Florida lawmaker for politicizing the issue.

“There’s no perfect way to make that phone call,” he said in his first public comments on the controversy over the call, which slain Sgt. La David Johnson’s mother Cowanda Jones-Johnson and a Florida lawmaker who knew him called disrespectful.

“If you’ve never worn the uniform, if you’ve never been in combat, you can’t even imagine how to make that call but I think he very bravely does make those calls.”

Kelly, who lost his marine lieutenant son in Afghanistan, said he advised Trump not to make the calls because it was so difficult to deliver such a tragic message.

But the president, he said, insisted that he thought it was the right thing to do. ”He said to me, ‘What do I say?’ ‘I said to him, ‘Sir, there’s nothing you can do to lighten the burden on these families,” he said.

He then said a military friend had told him how he handled the calls, and he shared the advice with the president.

The friend, he said, would tell loved ones that the deceased “was doing exactly what he wanted to do when he was killed. He knew what he was getting into by joining that 1 percent. He knew what the possibilities were.”

That phrasing is similar to what Johnson’s family said Trump told them, that the sergeant “knew what he signed up for.”



This seems to explain everything except the Congress women's behavior.
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  #4596  
Old 10-19-17, 03:43 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
This whole argument is ridiculous. So what if Trump said what they reported he said. Trump is not a minister or psychiatrist. He did his best in an uncomfortable situation. Instead of acting classy, this devil congresswoman ran to the press to embarrass the President. It's a shameful situation and I haven't read anywhere, anyone condemning this vile woman.

Let's ask this congresswoman, is it REALLY helping the family by making President Trump's remarks public? Is it helping the country? Who exactly is it helping trying to embarrass the President?

Shame on this woman and shame on the reporters for not asking the only important question, why did you make this public?
Exactly right Yappi and after General Kelly's comments on this issue today we learn why Trump said what he did. Trump was trying to do the right thing in reaching out to this grieving mother - but as the saying goes "no good deed goes unpunished". My goodness this congress women should at a minimum by sanctioned and IMO she should be impeached. She is a disgrace.
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  #4597  
Old 10-19-17, 03:44 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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What did trump actually say?
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  #4598  
Old 10-19-17, 03:47 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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The Dems have no shame, and will politicize anything to try and score points.
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  #4599  
Old 10-19-17, 03:49 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
What did trump actually say?
My understanding is he told her what General Kelly had advised - that her son knew what he was getting into when he became a member of the elite special forces. Did Trump say it as elegantly as General Kelly's friend advised? Who knows, but again we get a media frenzy in response to a FAKE report about what Trump said. But in the end when all the facts come out Trump ends up looking okay and his detractors look like the dirt bags they are.
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  #4600  
Old 10-19-17, 03:51 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I'm confused here. This thread keeps talking about Trump lying but I can't quite figure out from all the posts on the topic what exactly Trump lied about. Is this about his conversation with the mom of the special forces soldier KIA in Niger? Because I'm seeing & hearing info saying Trump isn't lying here and maybe, just maybe a certain congress women may be shading the truth a bit.

So could one of you guys who are so gleefully calling Trump a liar describe for us Trumptards exactly what he lied about this time? It would also be helpful to see the evidence that he lied to.
Trump said Obama didn't call parents of the fallen service members. The Dims said Obama did, so that proved Trump was lying. Trump offered up General Kelly as an example of a parent who did not receive a phone call from Obama.
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  #4601  
Old 10-19-17, 03:51 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
The Dems have no shame, and will politicize anything to try and score points.
Hammerdrill I think a large swath of the public is nearing a point where they will never again believe anything that these people say about Trump. It is clear now that the evidence is in that this Florida congress women used Trump's good faith call as a weapon to hurt him.

They accuse Trump of being "divisive" when it's their own insane hatred of Trump that is tearing this country apart.
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  #4602  
Old 10-19-17, 04:17 PM
Gulliotine Gulliotine is offline
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President Trump wins again.

It's like he doesn't even know his own strength!

POTUS 1 - Moron Rodeo Clown Congresswoman 0
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  #4603  
Old 10-19-17, 04:24 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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And now Wilson is attacking Kelly lol. These people really are clueless/classless: =

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22498/...r-ben-shapiro#

I thought this portion from the above summed it up well

Quote:
At this point, it seems there’s enough blame to go around. Trump never should have suggested that Presidents Obama and Bush didn’t do an appropriate amount of outreach to Gold Star families; the media never should have responded by attempting to prove that Trump’s outreach has been insufficient; the White House never should have used Kelly’s son as fodder for response based on Obama’s failure to immediately call General Kelly; Wilson shouldn’t have politicized a condolence call.

If Kelly’s press conference today did anything to restore a semblance of sanctity to fallen soldiers and their families, he’ll have accomplished a great good.
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  #4604  
Old 10-19-17, 06:51 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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Lol@ anyone liberal.
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  #4605  
Old 10-19-17, 08:03 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
And now Wilson is attacking Kelly lol. These people really are clueless/classless: =

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22498/...r-ben-shapiro#

I thought this portion from the above summed it up well
Of the items listed I think it's safe to say that the worst behavior was by the congress creature that politicized this. Everything else seems minor to me.
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  #4606  
Old 10-20-17, 09:07 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Here's some more on the Mueller witch hunt and why this man needs to resign ASAP:

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...-interested-in

What was supposed to have been a search for Russia’s cyberspace intrusions into our electoral politics has morphed into a malevolent mission targeting friends, family and colleagues of the president. The Mueller investigation has become an all-out assault to find crimes to pin on them — and it won’t matter if there are no crimes to be found. This team can make some.

Many Americans despise President Trump and anyone associated with him. Yet turning our system of justice into a political weapon is a danger we must guard against.



It's comforting to know we are in the very best of hands while we flirt with bringing down a sitting President:

Yet Mueller tapped a different sort of prosecutor to lead his investigation — his long-time friend and former counsel, Andrew Weissmann. He is not just a “tough” prosecutor. Time after time, courts have reversed Weissmann’s most touted “victories” for his tactics. This is hardly the stuff of a hero in the law.

Weissmann, as deputy and later director of the Enron Task Force, destroyed the venerable accounting firm of Arthur Andersen LLP and its 85,000 jobs worldwide — only to be reversed several years later by a unanimous Supreme Court.


It does beg the famous question: Who Watches the Watchers!
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  #4607  
Old 10-20-17, 09:23 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Weissmann, as deputy and later director of the Enron Task Force, destroyed the venerable accounting firm of Arthur Andersen LLP and its 85,000 jobs worldwide — only to be reversed several years later by a unanimous Supreme Court
This is a pretty generous interpretation of Arthur Anderson's role in the Enron scandal. The verdict that was overturned was only related to the shredding of documents and only overturned due to faulty jury instructions. It had nothing to do with any sort of finding of the firm's innocence(they freely admit they shredded the documents after the scandal hit) or anything to do with the larger scandal which was their complicity in the scandal as an auditor.

They also were found to have participated in similar negligence in their audit of WorldCom, which was actually a bigger financial fraud than even Enron, and would have been prosecuted had the firm not already dissolved.

Maybe this Weissmann guy does suck, but framing Arthur Anderson as an innocent victim of a corrupt government prosecution is an awfully bad way to make the point.
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  #4608  
Old 10-20-17, 09:44 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
This is a pretty generous interpretation of Arthur Anderson's role in the Enron scandal. The verdict that was overturned was only related to the shredding of documents and only overturned due to faulty jury instructions. It had nothing to do with any sort of finding of the firm's innocence(they freely admit they shredded the documents after the scandal hit) or anything to do with the larger scandal which was their complicity in the scandal as an auditor.

They also were found to have participated in similar negligence in their audit of WorldCom, which was actually a bigger financial fraud than even Enron, and would have been prosecuted had the firm not already dissolved.

Maybe this Weissmann guy does suck, but framing Arthur Anderson as an innocent victim of a corrupt government prosecution is an awfully bad way to make the point.
I think the point this author and others are making is that Mueller is assembling a staff of prosecutors that are unsavory in their tactics at best and perhaps corrupt at worst. At the very least he seems to have formed a team that will try to find a crime no matter whether one existed or not.

My issue is that given the extraordinary nature of this investigation and the possibility it could result in the removal of a sitting President you want the most effective, honest and unbiased investigators possible. Instead Mueller has assembled a staff that resembles something from the TV series "Billions". A staff that could plunge this country into a constitutional crisis if they employ the tactics many are infamous for.
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  #4609  
Old 10-20-17, 09:50 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I think the point this author and others are making is that Mueller is assembling a staff of prosecutors that are unsavory in their tactics at best and perhaps corrupt at worst.
Maybe that's true, but the author picked a terrible example to prove his point in the case of this Weissmann fella.

Quote:
My issue is that given the extraordinary nature of this investigation and the possibility it could result in the removal of a sitting President
There is a less than zero chance this happens.
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  #4610  
Old 10-20-17, 10:40 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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You got to love Texas: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/harv...boycott-israel

Quote:
Applicants for Hurricane Harvey relief grants for the storm-battered city of Dickinson are asked as part of the terms of the agreement to not boycott Israel
Quote:
The language is reflective of alaw passed in the last legislative session that prohibits all state agencies from contracting with or investing in companies that boycott Israel. The law, which is similiar to laws in at least a dozen other states,took effect Sept. 1.
In January 2016, Gov. Greg Abbottmet withIsraeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem and said that he wanted legislators to work toapprove such a ban.
When he signed the bill into law in May he said that "any anti-Israel policy is an anti-Texas policy."
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  #4611  
Old 10-20-17, 11:42 AM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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This lunatic is gonna have a heart attack on camera soon
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  #4612  
Old 10-20-17, 12:29 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
M

There is a less than zero chance this happens.
Sort of like the odds that Trump would become president on the day he rode the gold escalator down to announce his candidacy?

BTW, my problem with the "team" Mueller has assembled is that they appear to be overwhelmingly made up of the type of prosecutors that will do ANYTHING to get an indictment and then a conviction. This country has been struggling with this type of prosecutor for the last couple of decades and IMO they have created a real feeling that we don't do "justice" anymore in the USA. Prosecutorial misconduct is a real problem ranging from the notorious daycare child molestation cases from the 1980's to the Duke lacrosse case.

The bottom line is that the LAST group of people you want investigating a sitting president is a group of overzealous prosecutors who will bend the rules and push every available envelope to the limit to find a "crime". What we need are sober, well regarded prosecutors who are squeaky clean with reputations that they will hurt their own political careers to make sure the right thing is done. Mueller has not assembled a group of men & women that fits that description. That's why half the country sees this as a witch hunt - which is not good.
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  #4613  
Old 10-20-17, 12:35 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post


This lunatic is gonna have a heart attack on camera soon
Yov'e got to admire the mans enthusiasm and he has a point, who wants a 400 pound person dressed up as an evil alien space goblin hanging with their kids?

As an aside I see you've moved on from your "Trump lied to the grieving mother" story. Good move.
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  #4614  
Old 10-20-17, 12:45 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
BTW, my problem with the "team" Mueller has assembled is that they appear to be overwhelmingly made up of the type of prosecutors that will do ANYTHING to get an indictment and then a conviction.
Barring something illegal or unethical, I would want my prosecutors to be doing everything possible to get convictions. That's kind of the job description.

Quote:
The bottom line is that the LAST group of people you want investigating a sitting president is a group of overzealous prosecutors who will bend the rules and push every available envelope to the limit to find a "crime". What we need are sober, well regarded prosecutors who are squeaky clean with reputations that they will hurt their own political careers to make sure the right thing is done. Mueller has not assembled a group of men & women that fits that description. That's why half the country sees this as a witch hunt - which is not good.
I think you should wait for the investigation to conclude before going all chicken little on us. I suspect a lot of people who thought Mueller was terrible, and a lot of people who felt Mueller was a hero, are going to be reversing sides once this concludes(see the flip flopping from both sides over the past 2 years on Comey for an example.)

I think we're looking at maybe Flynn going down, and a outside chance at Kushner having to resign his post or something. Anything beyond that is implausible, and the most likely scenario is still nothing coming from it.
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  #4615  
Old 10-20-17, 12:57 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Barring something illegal or unethical, I would want my prosecutors to be doing everything possible to get convictions. That's kind of the job description.



I think you should wait for the investigation to conclude before going all chicken little on us. I suspect a lot of people who thought Mueller was terrible, and a lot of people who felt Mueller was a hero, are going to be reversing sides once this concludes(see the flip flopping from both sides over the past 2 years on Comey for an example.)

I think we're looking at maybe Flynn going down, and a outside chance at Kushner having to resign his post or something. Anything beyond that is implausible, and the most likely scenario is still nothing coming from it.
I think you're 100% wrong on this. A prosecutors job is different from a defense attorny's job - the prosecutor is charged with getting to the truth of the issue and making sure that justice is achieved. Which means that "convictions" should not be the measure of the job. The rise of the overzealous prosecutor who builds their political career one conviction at a time is a plague on our republic.

And this is especially true when you are investigating the POTUS. The reality is we need an investigation of the highest quality untainted by prosecutorial bias or zealousness. The special council needed to be a person seen as having deep integrity and the lawyers they assembled likewise needed to be clean as the wind driven snow.

And as far as your cynical remark that if Mueller exonerates Trump all us Trumptards will be singing the mans praises I'll offer an equally cynical counter argument: as Mueller continues to NOT find any evidence of Trump/Russian collusion while at the same time evidence continues to pour out showing Russian influence peddling in epidemic proportions during the Obama administration while he was the head of the FBI, Mueller will do the politically smart thing and find Trump "innocent" of any Russian collusion so he can close down the investigation and get out of Dodge!
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  #4616  
Old 10-20-17, 01:21 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
the prosecutor is charged with getting to the truth of the issue and making sure that justice is achieved
Right, gaining a conviction that isn't in line with the truth would fall under the "illegal or unethical" exception I made. But I don't see any evidence this Weissman guy you have your panties in a bunch about has a track record of that.

Quote:
And as far as your cynical remark that if Mueller exonerates Trump all us Trumptards will be singing the mans praises
How many times did each side's opinion on Comey flip flop? It's hardly a bold prediction.

Quote:
as Mueller continues to NOT find any evidence of Trump/Russian collusion while at the same time evidence continues to pour out showing Russian influence peddling in epidemic proportions during the Obama administration while he was the head of the FBI, Mueller will do the politically smart thing and find Trump "innocent" of any Russian collusion so he can close down the investigation and get out of Dodge!
I agree, the Obama admin's softness on Russia was a catastrophic error that allowed one of the world's most dangerous regimes to continue to gain a stranglehold on the country and a foothold in the international community. It's at the very least a black mark on his Presidency if not outright treacherous.

Let's hope we've learned that "getting Putin to like us" is a dumb and cowardly strategy.
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  #4617  
Old 10-20-17, 02:11 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
Bjayjay hates trump
Sucks to be a liberal at this point in time. Could they look any worse with the cowgirl as the face of the party?
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  #4618  
Old 10-20-17, 02:27 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Most famous Democrats in the country right now
Barack Obama
Hillary Clinton
Harvey Weinstein
Bernie Sanders
Cowboy hat lady
Pocahontas Warren

Quite a starting lineup

Last edited by Neopolitan; 10-20-17 at 02:39 PM.
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  #4619  
Old 10-20-17, 04:23 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Sucks to be a liberal at this point in time. Could they look any worse with the cowgirl as the face of the party?
Ms Howdy Doody may have mis-heard what she didn't understand:


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  #4620  
Old 10-22-17, 08:23 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Barring something illegal or unethical, I would want my prosecutors to be doing everything possible to get convictions. That's kind of the job description.



I think you should wait for the investigation to conclude before going all chicken little on us. I suspect a lot of people who thought Mueller was terrible, and a lot of people who felt Mueller was a hero, are going to be reversing sides once this concludes(see the flip flopping from both sides over the past 2 years on Comey for an example.)

I think we're looking at maybe Flynn going down, and a outside chance at Kushner having to resign his post or something. Anything beyond that is implausible, and the most likely scenario is still nothing coming from it.
Here's some more stuff on Mueller:

http://news.wgbh.org/2017/10/17/silv...ried-entrap-me

He gives a couple of nice examples of how an over zealous prosecutor conducts his business:

Years later, my wariness toward Mueller was bolstered in an even more revelatory way. When he led the criminal division of the U.S. Department of Justice, I arranged in December 1990 to meet with him in Washington. I was then lead defense counsel for Dr. Jeffrey R. MacDonald, who had been convicted in federal court in North Carolina in 1979 of murdering his wife and two young children while stationed at Fort Bragg. Years after the trial, MacDonald (also at Princeton when Mueller and I were there) hired me and my colleagues to represent him and obtain a new trial based on shocking newly discovered evidence that demonstrated MacDonald had been framed in part by the connivance of military investigators and FBI agents. Over the years, MacDonald and his various lawyers and investigators had collected a large trove of such evidence.

The day of the meeting, I walked into the DOJ conference room, where around the table sat a phalanx of FBI agents. My three colleagues joined me. Mueller walked into the room, went to the head of the table, and opened the meeting with this admonition, reconstructed from my vivid and chilling memory: “Gentlemen: Criticism of the Bureau is a non-starter.” (Another lawyer attendee of the meeting remembered Mueller’s words slightly differently: “Prosecutorial misconduct is a non-starter.” Either version makes clear Mueller’s intent – he did not want to hear evidence that either the prosecutors or the FBI agents on the case misbehaved and framed an innocent man.)

Special counsel Mueller’s background indicates zealousness that we might expect in the Grand Inquisitor, not the choirboy.
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