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Old 12-14-18, 09:53 AM
AdamSchefter AdamSchefter is offline
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ECC Football

Who do you guys think is the favorite in the ECC next year? I would say Turpin or Milford would be at the top of the list, followed closely by Kings.
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Old 12-14-18, 11:39 AM
DaPope DaPope is offline
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My way too early Predictions...

1. Turpin
2. Kings
3. Milford
4. Loveland
5. Walnut Hills
6. Anderson
7. West Clermont
8. Withrow
  #3  
Old 12-14-18, 12:22 PM
Off_Tackle08
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Originally Posted by DaPope View Post
My way too early Predictions...

1. Turpin
2. Kings
3. Milford
4. Loveland
5. Walnut Hills
6. Anderson
7. West Clermont
8. Withrow
Milford might fall off further- they really lose some on their studs.
Loveland is going to be a wild card with a new coach (any idea who?)
3-7 on your list is a complete dumpster fire in terms of who will be what next season... crazy because some of these places should have better sustained success.
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Old 12-14-18, 02:14 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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This will be the last season for a while where the ECC title will be up for grabs. Come 2020 when Winton Woods enters things are going to get serious.
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Old 12-14-18, 03:04 PM
rocketman82 rocketman82 is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
This will be the last season for a while where the ECC title will be up for grabs. Come 2020 when Winton Woods enters things are going to get serious.
WW must have a good recruiting class coming up. I think we all know that will not be the case at the junior high level.
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Old 12-14-18, 04:13 PM
Carew10 Carew10 is offline
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Originally Posted by AdamSchefter View Post
Who do you guys think is the favorite in the ECC next year? I would say Turpin or Milford would be at the top of the list, followed closely by Kings.
I don't really know about Turpin's chances next year with that Conway kid.
  #7  
Old 12-14-18, 04:19 PM
AdamSchefter AdamSchefter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaPope View Post
My way too early Predictions...

1. Turpin
2. Kings
3. Milford
4. Loveland
5. Walnut Hills
6. Anderson
7. West Clermont
8. Withrow
I would agree that Turpin is on top. They return 17 out of 22 starters, and many players gained much needed varsity experience
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Old 12-14-18, 05:03 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketman82 View Post
WW must have a good recruiting class coming up. I think we all know that will not be the case at the junior high level.
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Old 12-15-18, 12:38 AM
West Clermont Dad West Clermont Dad is offline
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Turpin is going to be tough to beat next year. Milford should fall off on paper but I wouldn't underestimate Grippa. Anderson will always be a threat because they are going to put points on the board. We'll see what happens at Kings with a new head coach. I think Loveland and Withrow will be at the bottom again with West Clermont and Walnut Hills a tier above.

This is borderline blasphemy in my neck of the woods but I'm not particularly enamored by West Clermont's coaching for two primary reasons. One, the Wing-T offense is outdated and boring for the kids and fans. Two, refusal to play the best athletes both ways. I've only been around these parts for a few years and I'm in the Amelia side of the district. I never had a reason to drink the Ayers kool-aid.

I can stomach the Wing-T if they would pass a little bit more, say 15-18 times per game. That isn't much, especially compared to some of the other ECC schools. As it stands, WC passes 3 or 4 times and a high percentage of those are intercepted because what else are you going to do on 3rd and 12? Use all the misdirection and fakes to your advantage in the passing game. There are constantly wide open backs and receivers if you're willing to throw the ball 3-5 yards downfield and let the player run. It seems WC insists on throwing everything deep on the rare occasion they pass. You don't have to have a great throwing QB to complete short passes. It goes without saying that passing more often should also open up the run game.

Playing the best athletes both ways is necessary for a school like WC to maximize its potential. While I can certainly appreciate the fact that more kids are getting playing time, this isn't rec league football. The difference in natural ability between athletes 1-4 and athletes 19-22 is huge. Take athletes 19-22 off the field and let athletes 1-4 play both ways for most of the game. I realize that is over simplifying things but I think you get my point.
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Old 12-15-18, 06:45 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Ayers is willing to pass when there is a QB capable of passing. He opened it up at Glen Este when he had a good QB, and would do it again if he had one. Issue is, WC doesn't have a QB that can pass it well, hence the INTs. Other teams have no issue completing a pass on 3rd & 12, issue is lack of QB at WC, not the scheme. Ayers has coached teams to playoffs 3x in his 7 seasons as a head coach.... I think he's doing fine.
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Old 12-15-18, 07:46 AM
FootballPsychGuy FootballPsychGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Clermont Dad View Post
Turpin is going to be tough to beat next year. Milford should fall off on paper but I wouldn't underestimate Grippa. Anderson will always be a threat because they are going to put points on the board. We'll see what happens at Kings with a new head coach. I think Loveland and Withrow will be at the bottom again with West Clermont and Walnut Hills a tier above.

This is borderline blasphemy in my neck of the woods but I'm not particularly enamored by West Clermont's coaching for two primary reasons. One, the Wing-T offense is outdated and boring for the kids and fans. Two, refusal to play the best athletes both ways. I've only been around these parts for a few years and I'm in the Amelia side of the district. I never had a reason to drink the Ayers kool-aid.

I can stomach the Wing-T if they would pass a little bit more, say 15-18 times per game. That isn't much, especially compared to some of the other ECC schools. As it stands, WC passes 3 or 4 times and a high percentage of those are intercepted because what else are you going to do on 3rd and 12? Use all the misdirection and fakes to your advantage in the passing game. There are constantly wide open backs and receivers if you're willing to throw the ball 3-5 yards downfield and let the player run. It seems WC insists on throwing everything deep on the rare occasion they pass. You don't have to have a great throwing QB to complete short passes. It goes without saying that passing more often should also open up the run game.

Playing the best athletes both ways is necessary for a school like WC to maximize its potential. While I can certainly appreciate the fact that more kids are getting playing time, this isn't rec league football. The difference in natural ability between athletes 1-4 and athletes 19-22 is huge. Take athletes 19-22 off the field and let athletes 1-4 play both ways for most of the game. I realize that is over simplifying things but I think you get my point.
WCDad, I agree with you on all the above and will also add the WingT is also easily defended, in spite of what wingt enthusiasts might try to tell you. Being extremely one-dimensional takes a toll on an offense eventually, during a game. Defensive coaches caught up with how to stop this offense a long time ago, but the die-hard wingt coaches have stubbornly chosen to stick to what they call the true-wing t principles. A few (very few) others have managed to incorporate some wing t concepts into what they call a hybrid wing to offense, some rpos, etc. But for the most part, guys who insist on sticking to the main wingt offense and next to nothing else, are going to have minimal success at best. It's just a reality that they refuse to see.
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Old 12-15-18, 07:50 AM
FootballPsychGuy FootballPsychGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Ayers is willing to pass when there is a QB capable of passing. He opened it up at Glen Este when he had a good QB, and would do it again if he had one. Issue is, WC doesn't have a QB that can pass it well, hence the INTs. Other teams have no issue completing a pass on 3rd & 12, issue is lack of QB at WC, not the scheme. Ayers has coached teams to playoffs 3x in his 7 seasons as a head coach.... I think he's doing fine.
If just making the playoffs is the main goal, then yes, the wingt may be an offense to get a team there. Only throwing it a handful of times a game, and almost always on long-yardage situations, isn't going to help any team beat those teams on their schedule that are 50-50s, at best. It's just a very easy offense to defend; load the box, follow the guards, they'll almost always take you to the ball, etc. Diehard wingt guys can't see this is what holds their teams back. Again, if just qualifying is the goal, depending on conference and schedule strength, it might get the job done. I'm not a fan of this offense.
  #13  
Old 12-15-18, 09:21 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Well making the playoffs is the goal at WC, you don't have any world beaters over there. Also, WingT is NOT easy to defend.... Defending the spread is much easier from a defensive standpoint. The fact that kids don't see it often makes it hard for them to properly defend. It's easy to say line up, stay gap sound, and follow guards, but it really is not that easy.

WingT guys are great at making sure their blockers outnumber the defenders in the run game & it is highly effective. Ayers also has "dummy pullers" built into the offense, one of the few who do this at the high school level, so you can't just follow the guards against Ayers offense.

Ayers is doing a great job and has brought a toughness to the program, and they would be way worse if they ran the spread.... They don't have the guys for the spread.
  #14  
Old 12-15-18, 09:55 AM
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Not an easy offense to defend whatsoever... requires kids to do things they’re not used to doing. Can’t convince spread guys but you can take average athletes and compete with above average.
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Old 12-15-18, 01:43 PM
wing-tcoach wing-tcoach is offline
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This thread may be the best “clinic” that I’ve attended in quite a while!
  #16  
Old 12-15-18, 08:43 PM
Emullet1 Emullet1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Off_Tackle08 View Post
Not an easy offense to defend whatsoever... requires kids to do things theyíre not used to doing. Canít convince spread guys but you can take average athletes and compete with above average.
Finaly someone gets it.
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Old 12-16-18, 11:35 AM
Off_Tackle08
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Finaly someone gets it.
Give me another offense where 180-220lb offensive linemen can thrive.
Iíve talked to many spread coaches and if they have big, powerful lineman that can run zone, a back that can read, cut and accelerate, a QB who can throw and guys who can catch- they can be really tough to defend.
I just believe a run based offense is where youíre going to have sustained success in Ohio. Certainly there will be spread teams who have success because there are some damn good coaches in Ohio with some top level talent.
Loveland, Clinton-Massie, Colerain, Massillon Perry, Kirtland, Bishop Hartley (to some extent)... the list goes on for wing-t, triple option, flexbone teams who have success. Heck- even Odessa Permian in TX has gone flexbone.
It doesnít matter what system you run- your culture gets kids out and excited. The community should rally around that. Sure- there are days when wing T systems produce games with 55 runs, 3 passes and 14 points on the board losing a game 20-14. but Iíve seen lots of spread teams get caught in the cold, rain, snow, etc and try to throw 40-50 times, no time runs off the clock and they lose the game 49-21 to a running team. Works both ways.
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Old 12-16-18, 12:17 PM
Emullet1 Emullet1 is offline
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Execution and discipline.
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Old 12-16-18, 12:22 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Yes execution and discipline. The spread offense is the most difficult to execute. Too many things go wrong, too many reads. Now some coaches have simplified this a great deal and have spent the time to eliminate those errors, but those coaches are far and few between.
  #20  
Old 12-16-18, 05:38 PM
Off_Tackle08
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Yes execution and discipline. The spread offense is the most difficult to execute. Too many things go wrong, too many reads. Now some coaches have simplified this a great deal and have spent the time to eliminate those errors, but those coaches are far and few between.
All true. Obviously to have success in good league in/ around Cincinnati- you're going to have to have some dudes- I don't care what system you run because the other teams are going to have some dudes and they likely have an above average coach because it's Cincinnati.

I think most high schools, regardless of offensive system, have a few kids walking the halls they wish they could have. Whether it's the system they don't like, the commitment of weights and stuff in the summer, the fact that anyone D4 up is trying their best to be 2 platoon and that means some dudes have to primarily play defense. I've heard kids complain that they have to be on special teams, or they complain because they're not the starting QB- so they're out. Every single school in the area has these issues yearly. West Clermont has put their trust in Coach Ayers and the players, parents and community need to buy in- you'll see better results than if you have parents who think they know more and then that attitude gets spread to kids.

Ayers is 11-9 in 2 years at a NEW high school. Made the playoffs in their first year. A 4-6 season this year, they lost 3 games by less than a score. A couple of things go right and they're 7-3 again.
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Old 12-17-18, 01:10 PM
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Go Anderson, Turpin is bad
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Old 12-28-18, 11:03 AM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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The Wing T when run correctly is tough to stop. However it is amazing how teams switched their offensive philosophy and really took off. I remember when Winton Woods was strictly a triple option team. This was very successful, however when you run up against teams with equal or better talent it becomes tough to consistently move the ball. So a couple of years ago they moved to the spread, but kept the power running game. It makes you so much harder to defend, plus it helps kids in being seen in a more college ready offense.
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Old 12-28-18, 05:53 PM
Big932 Big932 is offline
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The offense doesn’t matter. You need to have a coach that can successful sell it to the kids and teach the system. Teaching is key. The Wing-T isn’t outdated. It success is predicated on the inability of the opposing team to mimic the scheme in practice therefore it becomes hard to defend, same with the flex bone triple option. Team lacking superior talent gain an edge by using the wing-t and flexbone. It’s what keeps schools like Edgewood and West Clermont in football games that they shouldn’t be competitive in. I.e. Edgewood vs LaSalle in the 2016 playoffs.
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Old 12-29-18, 10:39 AM
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Interesting debate about the Wing T. I personally think you run the offense that is going to fit your players and give you the best chance to succeed. Suriano played had quite a few offenses he ran during his tenor at Anderson and it was always based off what was coming thru the pipeline. Run the spread when you have a qb who is a dual threat. When you have qb who can gun it move more towards a pro style offense. When you have a great line and backs but not so strong thru the air adjust to a power running attack. I have never understood why coaches insist on running the same offense or defense no matter the personnel.
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Old 12-29-18, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by skins99 View Post
Interesting debate about the Wing T. I personally think you run the offense that is going to fit your players and give you the best chance to succeed. Suriano played had quite a few offenses he ran during his tenor at Anderson and it was always based off what was coming thru the pipeline. Run the spread when you have a qb who is a dual threat. When you have qb who can gun it move more towards a pro style offense. When you have a great line and backs but not so strong thru the air adjust to a power running attack. I have never understood why coaches insist on running the same offense or defense no matter the personnel.
100% agree with this, coaching to your talent. Here's a question since I have never coached and didnt play a lot of Madden, so I'm just a fan who really doesnt have a lot of football knowledge...

Why couldn't a team, for example Colerain of years past, run more than 1 offense? It's not like they have to practice their option every day for the entire practice session right? Why couldn't they also have some power I since they already have great blocking tight ends, allowing them to have more options especially when behind. Maybe Colerain is a bad example since they've been so successful, but I always wonder why a team cant run wing t and powerI, or wing t and some spread. Especially if they go up tempo and defenses cant substitute. Most running backs should be able to go play receiver. I just thought it would be harder to defend a team who runs multiple offenses, not just 1?
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Old 12-30-18, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike45069 View Post
100% agree with this, coaching to your talent. Here's a question since I have never coached and didnt play a lot of Madden, so I'm just a fan who really doesnt have a lot of football knowledge...

Why couldn't a team, for example Colerain of years past, run more than 1 offense? It's not like they have to practice their option every day for the entire practice session right? Why couldn't they also have some power I since they already have great blocking tight ends, allowing them to have more options especially when behind. Maybe Colerain is a bad example since they've been so successful, but I always wonder why a team cant run wing t and powerI, or wing t and some spread. Especially if they go up tempo and defenses cant substitute. Most running backs should be able to go play receiver. I just thought it would be harder to defend a team who runs multiple offenses, not just 1?
Would you rather be average to below average at 5 things or great at 1? That is the general philosophy there.
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Old 12-31-18, 05:28 AM
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100% agree with this, coaching to your talent. Here's a question since I have never coached and didnt play a lot of Madden, so I'm just a fan who really doesnt have a lot of football knowledge...

Why couldn't a team, for example Colerain of years past, run more than 1 offense? It's not like they have to practice their option every day for the entire practice session right? Why couldn't they also have some power I since they already have great blocking tight ends, allowing them to have more options especially when behind. Maybe Colerain is a bad example since they've been so successful, but I always wonder why a team cant run wing t and powerI, or wing t and some spread. Especially if they go up tempo and defenses cant substitute. Most running backs should be able to go play receiver. I just thought it would be harder to defend a team who runs multiple offenses, not just 1?
They, and all option teams, need to and do rep their option daily in practice.
 

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