Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > General Sports > League/School Forums > Elder Panthers

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #481  
Old 04-05-17, 03:27 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Who has a good basketball program in the city that a good basketball coach would go to that isn't a rival of Elder? Hilvert went to LaSalle...what's the difference?

Seems kind of petty...we're not talking about big time college athletics here. I would hope Joe would encourage his staff members to go after decent coaching jobs if they come open and they want to be head coaches...even if it means competing against them. That's what mentors do.
Pretty big difference: 1) Hilvert wasn't an Asst under Ramsey, 2) he had to find a job after resigning from TM bc of the issues regarding his wife's employment.

You must lack capacity to think critically.
Reply With Quote
  #482  
Old 04-05-17, 03:37 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Did Hilvert get paid just to coach football, or was he a teacher too?

And if I was a head coach and had an assistant as good as Austing, I wouldn't stand in his way to get another very good head coaching role...even if it meant competing against me. But that's me.
Reply With Quote
  #483  
Old 04-05-17, 03:54 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Did Hilvert get paid just to coach football, or was he a teacher too?

And if I was a head coach and had an assistant as good as Austing, I wouldn't stand in his way to get another very good head coaching role...even if it meant competing against me. But that's me.
Austing already had a HC job at FF and purposefuly resigned to come to Elder. This was just 2 years ago, it's not like he's been waiting a decade. JS isn't the type of guy to go back on his word. Plus, everyone knew Fleming was retiring this year, it's not a surprise.

Last edited by Descartes; 04-05-17 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #484  
Old 04-05-17, 04:01 PM
JElder JElder is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-30-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13,376
JElder is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Austing already had a HC job at FF and purposefuly resigned to come to Elder. This was just 2 years ago, it's not like he's been waiting a decade.
Would you just stop spouting off about Austing... You literally know nothing about him.

He didn't resign from FF to come to Elder.

JS would not stand in the way of Tim taking the LaS job if he wanted it.

I would be completely shocked if he did take the job (if it was even offered) for many reasons, most of all his son will be playing for Elder.

I think the job goes to either Brian Neal (Bacon Coach) or Pat G (LaS longtime assistant)

If LaSalle hires someone outside of Pat G they will literally have a mutiny with LaSalle alums and former players on their hands. I don't think LaS is tone deaf enough to hire anyone outside of Pat. The only thing holding them back from making such a move would be the implications that Pat and Flemming have a frosty relationship.
Reply With Quote
  #485  
Old 04-05-17, 04:14 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Would you just stop spouting off about Austing... You literally know nothing about him.

He didn't resign from FF to come to Elder.

JS would not stand in the way of Tim taking the LaS job if he wanted it.

I would be completely shocked if he did take the job (if it was even offered) for many reasons, most of all his son will be playing for Elder.

I think the job goes to either Brian Neal (Bacon Coach) or Pat G (LaS longtime assistant)

If LaSalle hires someone outside of Pat G they will literally have a mutiny with LaSalle alums and former players on their hands. I don't think LaS is tone deaf enough to hire anyone outside of Pat. The only thing holding them back from making such a move would be the implications that Pat and Flemming have a frosty relationship.
We all know that you know Flemming pretty well, so just by posting their relationship is "frosty", there's probably truth to it. Still doesn't mean he should get screwed out of the job.
Reply With Quote
  #486  
Old 04-18-17, 07:57 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
On the basketball forum sounds like Neal from Bacon is who Fleming is backing. Honestly, that's a much better hire than Goedde. Neal is a proven winner as a HC.
Reply With Quote
  #487  
Old 04-18-17, 08:54 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Let the damn AD make a decision...all this politicking that goes on is really annoying.
Reply With Quote
  #488  
Old 04-26-17, 05:30 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Goedde gets the job. However, it's funny reading all the sentimental stories about Flem and Goedde's "bond" when Flemming didn't even want him to have the job.
Reply With Quote
  #489  
Old 04-26-17, 11:13 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Really hope he starts a trend of more offensive oriented basketball in the GCL. It's overdue.

Strongly believe 2016 Elder hoops squad competes for a state title if Harp took Sabato's minutes, and Ramsey and Hall had more of a green light on offense vs. playing a defensive/secondary role.

Not saying they would have won...but it would have given them a better shot with more of an emphasis on the offensive side of the floor. They had alot of talent on that team, and Harp was severely underused.

GCL - MORE OFFENSE PLEASE!!!
Reply With Quote
  #490  
Old 04-27-17, 07:37 AM
Don Flamenco Don Flamenco is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-25-01
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 18,504
Don Flamenco
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Really hope he starts a trend of more offensive oriented basketball in the GCL. It's overdue.

Strongly believe 2016 Elder hoops squad competes for a state title if Harp took Sabato's minutes, and Ramsey and Hall had more of a green light on offense vs. playing a defensive/secondary role.

Not saying they would have won...but it would have given them a better shot with more of an emphasis on the offensive side of the floor. They had alot of talent on that team, and Harp was severely underused.

GCL - MORE OFFENSE PLEASE!!!
Ramsey should have had a green light every single time down the court. He was totally underutilized on the offensive end. He could do everything well offensively, shoot from the outside, create his own shot, score inside. At times I'd think he wasn't nearly selfish enough, but it was likely more of a product of the system that held him back. That team had way too much talent and skill to go out as early as they did.
Reply With Quote
  #491  
Old 04-27-17, 08:04 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
If you want more offense, get a SHOT CLOCK.
Reply With Quote
  #492  
Old 04-27-17, 08:05 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Really hope he starts a trend of more offensive oriented basketball in the GCL. It's overdue.

Strongly believe 2016 Elder hoops squad competes for a state title if Harp took Sabato's minutes, and Ramsey and Hall had more of a green light on offense vs. playing a defensive/secondary role.

Not saying they would have won...but it would have given them a better shot with more of an emphasis on the offensive side of the floor. They had alot of talent on that team, and Harp was severely underused.

GCL - MORE OFFENSE PLEASE!!!
Harp should've played more, but he's not a PG. if anything, Connor should've had more of a role in place of Sabato's minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #493  
Old 04-27-17, 09:37 AM
Jerry Maguire Jerry Maguire is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 09-27-06
Location: Texas Forever
Posts: 1,705
Jerry Maguire is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Goedde gets the job. However, it's funny reading all the sentimental stories about Flem and Goedde's "bond" when Flemming didn't even want him to have the job.
Yep, false narrative. They don't really care for each other all that much.
Reply With Quote
  #494  
Old 04-27-17, 12:48 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Ramsey, Custer, Hofmeyer, Harp, and Hall...that's a really good 5 with some really good role players (Sabato, Roell, Conner). Harp barely even played in the tournament. Don't tell me he couldn't shoot like that last year too.

I agree that they were constrained by the system. Ramsey and Hall almost looked as if they were instructed to play the way they did.
Reply With Quote
  #495  
Old 04-27-17, 05:46 PM
?????? ?????? is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 04-27-17
Posts: 3
?????? is on a distinguished road
Did sabato ever lose a home game as starting point guard, did he win back to back gcl titles? 38% from field, 2 boards, maybe 1 assist/ game, and passive defense, Harp has game but needs to become a whole player if elder wants to compete next yr
Reply With Quote
  #496  
Old 04-27-17, 07:04 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Ramsey, Custer, Hofmeyer, Harp, and Hall...that's a really good 5 with some really good role players (Sabato, Roell, Conner). Harp barely even played in the tournament. Don't tell me he couldn't shoot like that last year too.

I agree that they were constrained by the system. Ramsey and Hall almost looked as if they were instructed to play the way they did.
None of them are PGs. TBH, everyone but Hoffmeyer is a 3 or Stretch 4.
Reply With Quote
  #497  
Old 04-27-17, 07:27 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????? View Post
Did sabato ever lose a home game as starting point guard, did he win back to back gcl titles? 38% from field, 2 boards, maybe 1 assist/ game, and passive defense, Harp has game but needs to become a whole player if elder wants to compete next yr
I think the kid that will take the biggest step next year is Estep at PG.
Reply With Quote
  #498  
Old 04-27-17, 08:26 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,834
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
Isn't Sabato the kid that literally only dribbled with one hand? Played soccer as well?
Reply With Quote
  #499  
Old 04-27-17, 08:38 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-05-02
Location: The Pit Elder High School
Posts: 9,152
EHS 2001 is on a distinguished road
Joey Sabato is Elder's all-time leader in assists.

(That's Harp with the basket on Sabato's record setting assist.)
Reply With Quote
  #500  
Old 04-27-17, 09:12 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
Joey Sabato is Elder's all-time leader in assists.

(That's Harp with the basket on Sabato's record setting assist.)
He would've been just that much better if he'd shot the ball when intentionally left open.
Reply With Quote
  #501  
Old 04-28-17, 08:06 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 11,881
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
None of them are PGs. TBH, everyone but Hoffmeyer is a 3 or Stretch 4.
Ramsey could have easily run the point in that lineup. Other than bringing the ballup, Elder uses a motion offense, lots of off ball screens and cutting after the pass. It could have worked just fine. Hofmeyer may also have been able to bring it up.
Reply With Quote
  #502  
Old 04-28-17, 08:27 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Ramsey could have easily run the point in that lineup. Other than bringing the ballup, Elder uses a motion offense, lots of off ball screens and cutting after the pass. It could have worked just fine. Hofmeyer may also have been able to bring it up.
This.

I'm not railing on Sabato either. But you don't even need a good coach to only defend 4 players.

He should have been used as more of a role player. Giving up some defense for some offense would have helped that team tremendously. And he would have been a huge defensive boost of energy coming off the bench.

The only teams they lost to were the teams that begged him to shoot and focused multiple guys on the shooters. VERY hard to beat a good team with a good coach playing 4 on 5 on offense.

And while not diminishing the assist achievement, he played with probably the 2nd best group of players (the state runner up team is arguable I know) since the 93/94 team. Someone has to make the shots. A large percentage of his assists were at the top of the key to Custer, Miller, Hofmeyer, and Harp shooting threes. Let's not act like he was Steve Nash out there. Compare that to Kelsey (who I think might be 2) who could break down anyone, penetrate, and find both shooters and big guys for easy looks.

He was a great defender and ball handler, but comparing his assist record to Harp being more well rounded is just dumb. You're comparing Harp's ability to do more with someone who was pretty much one dimensional. Additionally, Harp had no help on the offensive end. He had/has to carry much of the offensive load. You can't put that much pressure on one kid and expect him to score 25 a game...it's just not going to happen every game, and not even the best high school basketball players can do it every game. They need to provide him more offensive help.

Last edited by trey2k; 04-28-17 at 08:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #503  
Old 04-28-17, 09:11 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
This.

I'm not railing on Sabato either. But you don't even need a good coach to only defend 4 players.

He should have been used as more of a role player. Giving up some defense for some offense would have helped that team tremendously. And he would have been a huge defensive boost of energy coming off the bench.

The only teams they lost to were the teams that begged him to shoot and focused multiple guys on the shooters. VERY hard to beat a good team with a good coach playing 4 on 5 on offense.

And while not diminishing the assist achievement, he played with probably the 2nd best group of players (the state runner up team is arguable I know) since the 93/94 team. Someone has to make the shots. A large percentage of his assists were at the top of the key to Custer, Miller, Hofmeyer, and Harp shooting threes. Let's not act like he was Steve Nash out there. Compare that to Kelsey (who I think might be 2) who could break down anyone, penetrate, and find both shooters and big guys for easy looks.

He was a great defender and ball handler, but comparing his assist record to Harp being more well rounded is just dumb. You're comparing Harp's ability to do more with someone who was pretty much one dimensional. Additionally, Harp had no help on the offensive end. He had/has to carry much of the offensive load. You can't put that much pressure on one kid and expect him to score 25 a game...it's just not going to happen every game, and not even the best high school basketball players can do it every game. They need to provide him more offensive help.
That's why I think Estep will have a big year. Guard play won't be an issue, it'll be in the front court where there's no real size outside of Wertz, whom we're not even sure will play. After him, you've got Kandra and James as Sophs, but it's fair to say football is their best sport.
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 04-28-17, 09:12 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Ramsey could have easily run the point in that lineup. Other than bringing the ballup, Elder uses a motion offense, lots of off ball screens and cutting after the pass. It could have worked just fine. Hofmeyer may also have been able to bring it up.
He probably could've. I think he was more a naturally unselfish player than a product of the system.
Reply With Quote
  #505  
Old 04-28-17, 09:16 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
He probably could've. I think he was more a naturally unselfish player than a product of the system.
I don't...stud athletes don't have the mentality of taking a back seat because they're "unselfish". He's the type of kid that gets after it. Let him loose and he's another weapon on that team.

He was likely told what his "role" is...and instead of defying the coaches (he's not that type of kid either), he played his role.

IMO, that team is much better with him and Hall playing free and using their athleticism.
Reply With Quote
  #506  
Old 04-28-17, 10:18 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I don't...stud athletes don't have the mentality of taking a back seat because they're "unselfish". He's the type of kid that gets after it. Let him loose and he's another weapon on that team.

He was likely told what his "role" is...and instead of defying the coaches (he's not that type of kid either), he played his role.

IMO, that team is much better with him and Hall playing free and using their athleticism.
He may have been more out of position than anything. He probably should've been playing as a Guard since his best game was driving towards the hoop.
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 04-28-17, 10:36 AM
?????? ?????? is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 04-27-17
Posts: 3
?????? is on a distinguished road
T2k
Never said he was Nash, just a cross examination of your prosecution.
I think Harp can and will become more complete, he is super smooth and talented! All teams need there best player to get better, but I'm not sure what you mean by pressure on him. Mosely beat him in ppg; fg%; 3pt fg%, ft % ,rebounds, steals, blocks, assist, all while getting double teamed and drawing the tougher assignment on defense. You think he had pressure this huh? Wait till next yr?
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 04-28-17, 12:26 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Posts: 2,508
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????? View Post
T2k
Never said he was Nash, just a cross examination of your prosecution.
I think Harp can and will become more complete, he is super smooth and talented! All teams need there best player to get better, but I'm not sure what you mean by pressure on him. Mosely beat him in ppg; fg%; 3pt fg%, ft % ,rebounds, steals, blocks, assist, all while getting double teamed and drawing the tougher assignment on defense. You think he had pressure this huh? Wait till next yr?
Agree. That's where Marsh and Estep need to step up. Harp won't have the kind of numbers next year he had this season.
Reply With Quote
  #509  
Old 05-01-17, 08:13 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 671
trey2k is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ?????? View Post
T2k
Never said he was Nash, just a cross examination of your prosecution.
I think Harp can and will become more complete, he is super smooth and talented! All teams need there best player to get better, but I'm not sure what you mean by pressure on him. Mosely beat him in ppg; fg%; 3pt fg%, ft % ,rebounds, steals, blocks, assist, all while getting double teamed and drawing the tougher assignment on defense. You think he had pressure this huh? Wait till next yr?
Agree on the Mosely comment...he was a target on the offensive end as well. But at the Varsity and JV level, both teams had 1-2 scorers, and everyone else played a role. You can't consistently win with only 2 guys that aren't afraid to shoot the damn ball. Good teams will take at least 1 of those threats away. That leaves you with no one else to take the pressure away from the remaining scorer.

Every player on the floor has to be a threat, and it just doesn't seem that they teach that. You can tell kids are placed in a role, and that's their job, even when they struggle to score. I agree with and understand the need for great defense, but it's OK to give up a little defense for some additional offense. In fact, it's necessary.

Defensive role players are fine...but those guys also have to be a threat on the offensive end as well. There were kids that played significant minutes on JV and Varsity that maybe shot the ball 5 times the entire season. I doubt they flat out tell them not to shoot, but you can tell they are reluctant to do so...mostly because they know they're not supposed to.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
History of Baseball State Championships (1928-2016) Yappi Baseball 33 05-11-17 10:09 AM
Will the MAC sweep the lower three divisions again? BlueJayFan Football 104 12-05-15 06:55 PM
OASWT Now Accepting Applications For 2016 & 2017 Teams Ohio TofC Wrestling 10 10-15-15 08:21 AM
Week 1: Elder Panthers @ Oak Hills Highlanders adselder09 Elder Panthers 224 09-03-14 07:06 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz