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  #241  
Old 08-21-18, 09:04 AM
L Hand L Hand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
Let me try to be a little more clearer on what I think might happen. I cannot speak for the smaller Catholic High Schools other than to say many of them seem to physically constrained by the size of their buildings and facilities. Many of them cannot get much bigger in terms of class size. However, for a variety of reasons, I see the big boys (Moeller, Elder, X, Ed's, Iggy's and maybe Joe's and LaSalle and perhaps John's) coming up with some hybrid relationship with the OHSAA or joining a regional Large Catholic school league with large private schools in Kentucky, Indiana and maybe Michigan. It is clear that the Publics don't want to deal with these guys anymore. Everybody should just say what they mean and move on.
And let me tell you what I think WILL happen - nothing of significance. I think the privates will actually lose the lawsuit. I also think it is possible the OHSAA proposes an alternative that is a split-the-baby compromise. I actually think there is much less noise about a public/private split than there was 20 years ago.
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  #242  
Old 08-21-18, 10:10 AM
aged jock aged jock is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, exactly the advantage private schools have had for decades. Uh I know of no public school who has 10 to 15 feeder schools. Private schools are 72 of the nearly 800 schools in Ohio. The idea that privates could separate and form their own association is beyond stupid. Uh you have the 5 big boys in the GCL and Cleveland.Uh are they gonna play each other twice a year? A way majority of the private schools are in the lower divisions. Uh 72 teams how many divisions are you gonna have? Uh Dayton Carroll against Iggy? Uh don't think so.How about Fenwick vs Elder? Uh yeah right. Public schools hold all the cards but I know private schools have a lot of pull in the state legislature.
Catholic elementary schools have traditionally been attached to parishes. The parishes tend to have smaller schools. The high schools have drawn from many parishes, because it's a rare parish that can provide enough kids to build a high school. The variety of courses and activities would be very limited. It's easier to have an elementary school, where everyone takes the same courses, and classrooms tend to be self-contained until around sixth grade, when some specialization for teachers becomes more effective.

For example, St. Charles School, which is on the same physical grounds as Alter, might provide 40 students to Alter each year. It also provides a few to Fairmont and Centerville public schools. Same with St. Albert the Great. There's no way you can operate an effective high school with only 40 students per class.

CBP requires Alter to choose a "feeder school". So Alter chooses Incarnation, which sends maybe 60 kids each year. So all the St. Charles and St. Al's kids are multiplied, even though they went all eight years to the traditional Alter feeder schools.

Some of the kids from St. Charles and St. Al's might go to Carroll or CJ. So what? It's not like Alter goes to Fairmont and Centerville and plucks the best players for each sport, despite your delusions. Besides, two years ago, Alter won four state championships, none of which was football. Do you think that only great athletes go to Alter?
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  #243  
Old 08-21-18, 10:16 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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As a side note to this discussion, it sounds like the privates have an awful lot of tiny elementary/middle/feeder schools.
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  #244  
Old 08-21-18, 10:17 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
I'm fine with public school kids coming into the private high school counting as 2 or 5 or whatever.

I'm OK with a private having multiple feeders for a place like Columbus Diocese that defines and enforces attendance zones like public districts. Not sure how it would work for a "feeder" school that sends kids all over or a feeding school that gets kids from all over. The public supporters have a legitimate gripe with the bigger schools taking kids from wherever. In Central Ohio, I think it's fair to say that the single diocesan-wide open enrollment school (St Charles) takes the tier 1 hit for its students.

When the proposal was passed and again during televised state championship coverage, OHSAA leadership promised an appeals process that never materialized. A lower division school that is already non-competitive in their current division should be able to stay put regardless of multipliers. Three years or so without a playoff appearance should disqualify a school from being bumped up by CBP.

The system is drastically flawed. The multiplier is stupid. They should just stop being wishy-washy and fix it to suit its purpose. If you dominate the playoffs year after year, you move up and face playoff opponents who can actually compete against you. If you fail epically year after year, you move down to where you are capable of competing. If your AD has created a D-III schedule for your team, then he is implicitly putting you into D-III for playoff qualification for your team. The playoffs weren't intended to be a step down in the level of competition.
Well said ... if you are consistently successful ... you get moved up .... if you are consistently unsuccessful you get moved down ... if you get moved up and cannot stay successful, you move back down ... if you move down and become consistently successful you move back up ... seems simple.
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  #245  
Old 08-21-18, 10:59 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
As a side note to this discussion, it sounds like the privates have an awful lot of tiny elementary/middle/feeder schools.
Yes they do and the tiny elementary schools can be feeders for any number of High Schools. Ihm in Cincinnati, one of the larger grade schools in the Diocese, sends 8th graders to St.X, Moeller, McNICK, Summit CD, Purcell MARIAN, St URSULA, Ursuline, MND as well as the local publics.
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  #246  
Old 08-21-18, 11:16 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
As a side note to this discussion, it sounds like the privates have an awful lot of tiny elementary/middle/feeder schools.
You'd be right about that. Just look at our own county.
Canton CC's traditional feeders are:
Ss. Philip & James
St. Michael
St. Mary
St. Joan of Arc
St. Barbara (reduced its offerings to K-5 about 8 years ago but has since re-established grades 6-8)

St. Clement closed about 10 years ago, and St. Joseph closed 4 years ago (last class to graduate from St. Joseph graduated HS this past spring). Takes 5 Catholic grade school buildings and a little help from the public JHs just to generate a class of 70-80 freshmen. That's an awful lot of overhead. There aren't enough hours in the day to examine why more of these schools don't close or consolidate.

St. Thomas Aquinas has another 5 grade schools traditionally tied to their HS:
St. Peter
St. Paul
Our Lady of Peace
St. Louis
Regina Coeli

Sacred Heart of Mary closed about 8 years ago. St. Peter and St. Louis nearly closed as well 4 years ago but were kept open as grades K-5 when St. Thomas Aquinas established a middle school wing in its building for grades 6-8. OLOP and Regina Coeli also became K-5 operations as a result of that plan. St. Paul is the only STA feeder school that goes through grade 8. Again, that's a lot of overhead for not a lot of kids.
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  #247  
Old 08-21-18, 11:41 AM
Interloper Interloper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Fisher Catholic, Portsmouth Notre Dame, and Steubenville Central Catholic each took a million dollars out of their endowment funds to help support the lawsuit. Though it's just a drop in their sizable buckets, it will cost them about three blue chip families apiece. They're all in it for the long game. Several of the billionaires in their areas have agreed to replenish the Leadership Scholarship Funds by the end of the tax deduction year and before the serious start of next year's recruiting season. There may be a slight delay in the construction of new student family housing units, and local car dealerships are bracing themselves for the expected downtick in booster sales.
well done.
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  #248  
Old 08-21-18, 12:13 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Here came the race card, didn't take long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
That’s a pretty interesting way of saying “I think white people are superior to non-whites.” Way to show your colors, kid.
Actually sports has allowed the Best person to excel! color blind!
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  #249  
Old 08-21-18, 12:50 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
You'd be right about that. Just look at our own county.
Canton CC's traditional feeders are:
Ss. Philip & James
St. Michael
St. Mary
St. Joan of Arc
St. Barbara (reduced its offerings to K-5 about 8 years ago but has since re-established grades 6-8)

St. Clement closed about 10 years ago, and St. Joseph closed 4 years ago (last class to graduate from St. Joseph graduated HS this past spring). Takes 5 Catholic grade school buildings and a little help from the public JHs just to generate a class of 70-80 freshmen. That's an awful lot of overhead. There aren't enough hours in the day to examine why more of these schools don't close or consolidate.

St. Thomas Aquinas has another 5 grade schools traditionally tied to their HS:
St. Peter
St. Paul
Our Lady of Peace
St. Louis
Regina Coeli

Sacred Heart of Mary closed about 8 years ago. St. Peter and St. Louis nearly closed as well 4 years ago but were kept open as grades K-5 when St. Thomas Aquinas established a middle school wing in its building for grades 6-8. OLOP and Regina Coeli also became K-5 operations as a result of that plan. St. Paul is the only STA feeder school that goes through grade 8. Again, that's a lot of overhead for not a lot of kids.
And then there are the others. For example, Jackson Local School District is able to provide an excellent education for approximately 6000 residents utilizing 4 grade schools (K-5), 1 middle school (6-8), and 1 high school.
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  #250  
Old 08-21-18, 01:57 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
Actually sports has allowed the Best person to excel! color blind!
Actually, it was in response to group representation. We get it that you can’t read, but that’s your prerogative to announce to us that you can’t read.
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  #251  
Old 08-22-18, 08:36 PM
rampanther rampanther is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Well said ... if you are consistently successful ... you get moved up .... if you are consistently unsuccessful you get moved down ... if you get moved up and cannot stay successful, you move back down ... if you move down and become consistently successful you move back up ... seems simple.
Makes sense that way everyone gets a trophy. Who’s bringing juice boxes Friday night
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  #252  
Old 08-23-18, 07:15 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by rampanther View Post
Makes sense that way everyone gets a trophy. Who’s bringing juice boxes Friday night
Even better, if you have not made the playoffs in the previous 3 years you can drop a division each year until you do.
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  #253  
Old 08-23-18, 10:53 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Even better, if you have not made the playoffs in the previous 3 years you can drop a division each year until you do.
Or, in other words, if you're too tired to pick up your juice box after the game, we'll bring it to you and help you drink it.
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  #254  
Old 09-11-18, 05:46 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
That's nonsense. Coldwater and Marion Local and the third best MAC school could handily sweep 5-7 every year with nothing but homegrown kids and an occasional hiccup against Kirtland. The privates at those levels don't have the money or enrollment to waste on sports and non-existent sports scholarships.
If Coldwater and Marion Local really are doing what they are doing with kids from within their district, then I wouldn't propose that anything be done about that other than encouraging them to keep developing kids with a sense of excellence and achievement.

In my experience, public programs like that actually attract kids from adjacent areas that want to be a part of the success. In southern Ohio, Ironton was the premier program in the 70's into the 90's. Every year they got maybe 5 players from surrounding districts, but they tended to be really, really talented players. I don't believe in restricting that choice of kids and parents. However, if the talent level is being enhanced in that process, then that is what causes CI, and if you really want to do something about CI, then you have to address the issue of a school acquiring talent from outside their normal boundaries.

It's not nonsense. It is the exact cause of CI. The problem is that makes some people nervous to hear it.

Last edited by IVCguy; 09-11-18 at 06:09 PM.
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  #255  
Old 09-11-18, 06:25 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Read vs Understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Actually, it was in response to group representation. We get it that you can’t read, but that’s your prerogative to announce to us that you can’t read.
It was a point, so you didn't understand it, it's ok!
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  #256  
Old 09-11-18, 08:29 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
Or, in other words, if you're too tired to pick up your juice box after the game, we'll bring it to you and help you drink it.
Exactly.
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