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  #1  
Old 09-09-17, 07:28 PM
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Thursday Night (9-14): Canton Central Catholic (0-3) @ St. Thomas Aquinas (1-2)

The annual Stark County Holy War takes place at Sirpilla Stadium on Thursday night. Canton CC is hungry for a win after facing 3 extremely challenging opponents with each one better than the previous one, IMHO. St. Thomas Aquinas already has 1 win in its back pocket and has faced 2 other teams that will contend for the NBC title.

Last Week: Both teams fell victim to the 2nd half running clock on Friday with Canton CC losing at Strongsville 44-13 and St. Thomas Aquinas losing at Marlington 47-0.

Last year: St. Thomas Aquinas rode a massive offensive line and RB Nathan Rich to a 12-10 victory.

All-time: Canton CC leads the series 33-17-1. The teams have played every year since 1967. A bonus meeting occurred during the 1988 playoffs.

2 questions enter my head before this game:

1) How healthy are both teams?

2) Could this be the final meeting between these rivals? The diocese continues to say "no," but what say you?
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Old 09-09-17, 07:52 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Canton CC is hungry for a win after facing 3 extremely challenging opponents with each one better than the previous one, IMHO.
Interesting. Earlier in the year when CCC put Strongsville on the schedule, there was some chatter that it was too easy a game. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. Looking at Strongsville's opponents the past few years, they are easily playing a schedule twice as difficult as any in Stark County. The Central score popped out at me last night, especially because Perry had much more trouble putting away the Crusaders.

Anyway, it's hard to get a feel on either team. I know Central has been beat up since before the season started. History and strength-of-schedule favors them, but that didn't matter last year. I don't know much against Aquinas, aside from the fact that they played a wild one against Richmond Heights, who tossed 6 interceptions. It could be one of those games where you just have to wait for the feel of it and see the personnel matchups before knowing who's the favorite and who's the dog.

I don't think it's the last game. One would assume the diocese is going to give more warning than a couple months before closure (or at least I would hope). Why is this game again moved from week 10? I remember years ago it was done as some sort of response to student behavior, but it has happened again. Doesn't seem right not to have it at the end of the season, especially with the series likely coming to a close soon.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-17, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Interesting. Earlier in the year when CCC put Strongsville on the schedule, there was some chatter that it was too easy a game. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. Looking at Strongsville's opponents the past few years, they are easily playing a schedule twice as difficult as any in Stark County. The Central score popped out at me last night, especially because Perry had much more trouble putting away the Crusaders.

Anyway, it's hard to get a feel on either team. I know Central has been beat up since before the season started. History and strength-of-schedule favors them, but that didn't matter last year. I don't know much against Aquinas, aside from the fact that they played a wild one against Richmond Heights, who tossed 6 interceptions. It could be one of those games where you just have to wait for the feel of it and see the personnel matchups before knowing who's the favorite and who's the dog.

I don't think it's the last game. One would assume the diocese is going to give more warning than a couple months before closure (or at least I would hope). Why is this game again moved from week 10? I remember years ago it was done as some sort of response to student behavior, but it has happened again. Doesn't seem right not to have it at the end of the season, especially with the series likely coming to a close soon.
Strongsville should fare much better than last year's 2-8 record. They're not blazing fast, but they're big (except for the QB who is short but very elusive), athletic, and tough - maybe too tough since they were called for 14 penalties and could've been whistled for a few more. No idea what their issues were the past few years, but their new coach appears to have them playing solid football. That said, their league schedule is a bear. It's kind of a Catch-22 opponent for Canton CC. If they beat Strongsville, how many games is Strongsville going to win against their league schedule? If they lose to Strongsville, they obviously get nothing. Plus, as a small school, playing a school that size carries the risk of extra wear and tear with more guys playing both ways. I'm not saying the game shouldn't have been scheduled because there weren't many options remaining, but these matchups always carry a level of risk. Strongsville seems very similar to Jackson in terms of demographics and socioeconomics.

St. Thomas Aquinas joined the NCL-White Division (4th year in the league) and is in league play for weeks 6-10, so the schools moved the game to week 4 and agreed to play on Thursday night since Friday is a diocesan in-service day (i.e. No school for students). Also, the thought was Thurs. night might bring out a few more casual fans and possibly even TV coverage. The coaches might also consider having the rivalry week be 1 day shorter as a side benefit.

Incidentally, Fostoria St. Wendelin just closed in June. The decision was not announced until late March, IIRC. That's often when schools are looking at how many incoming freshmen registered, and they're trying to finalize the budget in order to set tuition for the following school year.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 09-09-17 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 09-09-17, 08:02 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Incidentally, Fostoria St. Wendelin just closed in June. The decision was not announced until late March, IIRC.
Ah, well that's unfortunate. I guess you don't get argue with the diocese the same way you can with a school board.

Good luck to both teams!
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  #5  
Old 09-09-17, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Ah, well that's unfortunate. I guess you don't get argue with the diocese the same way you can with a school board.

Good luck to both teams!
Incidentally, St. Wendelin's parish council pulled the plug. They looked at the numbers and said, "we just can't operate this HS anymore." Their grade school remains.
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  #6  
Old 09-10-17, 06:40 PM
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CCC will win with a running clock in the second half
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  #7  
Old 09-11-17, 06:47 AM
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CCC will win with a running clock in the second half
Correct
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Old 09-11-17, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Footballfever123 View Post
CCC will win with a running clock in the second half
That's what a lot thought last year, and I don't see any chance of that this year.

I'm thinking this could be a slow, low-scoring game as each team lacks speed at the skill positions and on the interior. Probably hinges on one big offensive play or one killer turnover.

If Palek is healthy, STA has a good chance. I also think CC would be better off with Beck at QB and Johnson at WR where he can make better use of his agility in the open field.
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Old 09-11-17, 12:39 PM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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That's what a lot thought last year, and I don't see any chance of that this year.

I'm thinking this could be a slow, low-scoring game as each team lacks speed at the skill positions and on the interior. Probably hinges on one big offensive play or one killer turnover.

If Palek is healthy, STA has a good chance. I also think CC would be better off with Beck at QB and Johnson at WR where he can make better use of his agility in the open field.
Not in their O.... he handles the ball every play
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Old 09-12-17, 07:48 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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CCC will win with a running clock in the second half
That would be nice. Not sure it happens, but that would be nice.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-17, 08:20 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
2 questions enter my head before this game:

1) How healthy are both teams?

2) Could this be the final meeting between these rivals? The diocese continues to say "no," but what say you?
1) I have no idea about Aquinas' health other than what I read in the newspaper. Central, obviously, will be without the services of presumptive starting QB Stone Sirpilla. Also, a lineman is out with a shoulder issue until Week 6 or 7. Other than that, I think it is just the usual bumps and bruises associated with playing football against quality teams.

2) I think Aquinas tries to field a team next year and we have one more game, two total -- 2017 and 2018. My question is this and I have posed it before: Will Aquinas reorganize its athletic department in light of rapidly declining enrollment. Based on various reports, they have between 125-138 students this year and they expect to, at best, stay steady in 2018-2019. Looking just at the fall, I find it difficult to believe that they can field a soccer team (assuming a minimum of 13 players needed), a cross country team (5 needed), golf team (5 needed) and football team (18 needed). While many schools that size have athletic programs and successful ones at that, I cannot think of a school that size that offers the full complement of fall sports. Assuming 70 boys in the school, You would need 40 of them competing in a fall sport. This exercise also ignores the fact that some of those 18 football players will not be physically ready for varsity football at a high level. So even if they can get 18-22 players out for football, I would think that they need to start looking at small IVC schools and other similarly situated programs to replace Alliance, Marlington, etc. in their non-conference schedule.

I do not think they will close Aquinas (or reorganize the two schools however they or you want to define that) at the end of this school year. At the end of the day, when the decision eventually is made, some people will lose their minds, threaten to pull their support (if it had been there in large enough quantities we would not be in this boat), take their kids to public school or Summit County Catholics (many already have or, again, we would not be in this boat), protest, write letters to the editor, complain to the bishop, raise h*%^ on Yappi, etc. They can get that out of the way now and let the healing and rebuilding process begin or they can leave the wound open for another two or three schools years, delaying the beginning of the healing process and perhaps further erode any chance of rebuilding for another generation of students. We will see what Gravo and his board decide to do. The HCA board can't close an elementary school with 30-some kids in it, so apparently it is easier said than done.
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Old 09-12-17, 08:22 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
St. Thomas Aquinas joined the NCL-White Division (4th year in the league) and is in league play for weeks 6-10, so the schools moved the game to week 4 and agreed to play on Thursday night since Friday is a diocesan in-service day (i.e. No school for students). Also, the thought was Thurs. night might bring out a few more casual fans and possibly even TV coverage. The coaches might also consider having the rivalry week be 1 day shorter as a side benefit.
Are they going to continue with the Thursday game next year (assuming the game is scheduled and played . . and I know they are planning on a game next year as Aquinas has posted openings on their schedule on various sites)?
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Old 09-12-17, 09:11 AM
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Win by CCC, but is it too little too late?
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Old 09-12-17, 09:22 AM
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Win by CCC, but is it too little too late?
It is certainly not going to be a big points game for Central Catholic, that is for sure. Upsetting Perry would have been nice but it didn't happen. Strongsville was two cuts above Perry so that was not winnable. Week 1 the Crusaders let a win slip away and New Phila may be the best of the team Central has or will face in the first half of the season. So that, and assuming that WW is an auto-loss and Jackson seems like a stretch (I think Palotta will shred our secondary and the Bears will win big), that leaves us with a best case scenario of 4 wins against 4 average to below-average teams (but Wooster is no guarantee as they gave Dover all they wanted on Friday night). A playoff berth that does not equal for Central.

Now IF Central upsets Jackson or New Philly, let the playoff-points-watch begin. Upset both of them and it is go-time for Week 11. Those are both unlikely scenarios, however, and it looks like these these underclassmen will need to commit themselves in the off-season to set-up a playoff run in 2018, in my opinion.

First things first, Beat Aquinas!
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Old 09-12-17, 09:23 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Friday Night Ohio / The Independent article from Chris Easterling on the (lack of a) Crusader running game:

http://fridaynightohio.com/news/1341...game-on-track/
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Old 09-12-17, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
The annual Stark County Holy War takes place at Sirpilla Stadium on Thursday night. Canton CC is hungry for a win after facing 3 extremely challenging opponents with each one better than the previous one, IMHO. St. Thomas Aquinas already has 1 win in its back pocket and has faced 2 other teams that will contend for the NBC title.

Last Week: Both teams fell victim to the 2nd half running clock on Friday with Canton CC losing at Strongsville 44-13 and St. Thomas Aquinas losing at Marlington 47-0.

Last year: St. Thomas Aquinas rode a massive offensive line and RB Nathan Rich to a 12-10 victory.

All-time: Canton CC leads the series 33-17-1. The teams have played every year since 1967. A bonus meeting occurred during the 1988 playoffs.

2 questions enter my head before this game:

1) How healthy are both teams?

2) Could this be the final meeting between these rivals? The diocese continues to say "no," but what say you?
Central has a running clock the entire second half. I wish it were not so, but it will be a short game.

As to the last game, that seems highly unlikely unless Bishop Murry, John Sirpilla, and Dan Gravo are all flat out lying given what was said at the August 10th press conference and the September 7th question and answer session at Aquinas. You can watch both videos on the Aquinas facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/StThomasAqu...4668022580898/

https://www.facebook.com/StThomasAqu...8952812819086/


They have been clear, direct and adamant that they are maintaining two high schools in Stark County for the exact reason I have stated numerous times, neither schools location can serve the entire county. My hope is that a plan for a new building in a different location happens if some significant funding sources materialize. If not, Aquinas will be given more than a few years to turn things around and get their classes at least back in the low 50's. Aquinas does have the largest middle school class they have yet had with this year's 6th graders. That middle school is a great advantage to the kids that attend. They now have Mr. Woods teaching not only Physics to the high school kids but science to the middle school kids (this applies to the math teachers as well who are very good). He is one of the best teachers in the area. I had him at Aquinas for Physics, he went to Jackson for a short period and then was at Hoover for a much longer period. He has countless awards and wanted to teach again in a Catholic school. We are very greatful to have him back.

Central as I believed it would this year has its smallest freshman class ever at 73. If the normal trends continue that class will be in the 60's by its senior year as most Catholic schools have negative transfer flow from freshman to senior years mostly due to tuition expense. One of my Central friends said they had an incoming class of about 88 this year and I knew that number was just registrations and you never get all those kids in the school when August comes around, so I knew the class would actually be much smaller, which it is.

Aquinas has quite a bit of athletic talent in the middle school in various sports, including football. So if the President and the Board are able to achieve their goals and get enrollment up at both schools, Aquinas should be good again in a few years.

Last edited by Summa; 09-12-17 at 10:30 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-12-17, 10:15 AM
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Win by CCC, but is it too little too late?
Won't know until we try.
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Old 09-12-17, 10:16 AM
IUDOGS IUDOGS is offline
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Cool Canton Central Catholic at Louisville St Thomas Aqunias

It's September 12, 2017

Drew Pasteur has it:

Canton Central Catholic: -11.5



This is IUDOGS signing off.
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Old 09-12-17, 10:17 AM
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Cool Canton Central Catholic at Louisville St Thomas Aquinas

It's September 12, 2017

Drew Pasteur has it:

Canton Central Catholic: -11.5



This is IUDOGS signing off.
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Old 09-12-17, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post
Central has a running clock the entire second half. I wish it were not so, but it will be a short game.

As to the last game, that seems highly unlikely unless Bishop Murry, John Sirpilla, and Dan Gravo are all flat out lying given what was said at the August 10th press conference and the September 7th question and answer session at Aquinas. You can watch both videos on the Aquinas facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/StThomasAqu...4668022580898/

https://www.facebook.com/StThomasAqu...8952812819086/


They have been clear, direct and adamant that they are maintaining two high schools in Stark County for the exact reason I have stated numerous times, neither schools location can serve the entire county. My hope is that a plan for a new building in a different location happens if some significant funding sources materialize. If not, Aquinas will be given more than a few years to turn things around and get their classes at least back in the low 50's. Aquinas does have the largest middle school class they have yet had with this year's 6th graders. That middle school is a great advantage to the kids that attend. They now have Mr. Woods teaching not only Physics to the high school kids but science to the middle school kids (this applies to the math teachers as well who are very good). He is one of the best teachers in the area. I had him at Aquinas for Physics, he went to Jackson for a short period and then was at Hoover for a much longer period. He has countless awards and wanted to teach again in a Catholic school. We are very greatful to have him back.

Central as I believed has its smallest freshman class ever at 73. If the normal trends continue that class will be in the 60's by its senior year as most Catholic schools have negative transfer flow from freshman to senior years due to tuition expense. One of my Central friends said they had an incoming class of about 88 this year and I knew that number was just registrations and you never get all those kids in the school when August comes around, so I knew the class would actually be much smaller.
How many students are in St. Thomas Aquinas' freshman class?
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Old 09-12-17, 10:37 AM
Summa Summa is offline
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how many students are in st. Thomas aquinas' freshman class?
Thirty something. Watch the videos, they state the numbers and the issues at both schools.
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Old 09-12-17, 10:39 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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how many students are in st. Thomas aquinas' freshman class?
31
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Old 09-12-17, 10:41 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Won't know until we try.
Great point.
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Old 09-12-17, 11:00 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Thanks for the links. I don't know that St. Paul's parent but my grandfather would like her. I always remember him saying "Get on with it" whenever he felt people were wavering or not cutting to the chase.

I get that you, Sirpilla, Gravo, lot of interested parties would prefer a single school but that leaves me with, as always, a few questions. One, if Aquinas continues to hover at or near 100-120 students in the coming years, how long do you keep it open? How long do you get to turn it around when there is no sign of (significantly) increasing numbers in the feeder schools? Two, has anyone really examined the net effect of losing one school or the other? If you take away Central or Aquinas' physical location, how many of the current or perspective students can be served by one location or the other with a 15 minute drive? a 20 minute drive? a 25 minute drive, etc? Basically, what is the "middle"?

I don't think anyone is purposefully lying but, as you heard in that St Paul's mom's voice, frustration is getting high.
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Old 09-12-17, 11:21 AM
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CCC 40
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Old 09-12-17, 11:22 AM
Summa Summa is offline
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Thanks for the links. I don't know that St. Paul's parent but my grandfather would like her. I always remember him saying "Get on with it" whenever he felt people were wavering or not cutting to the chase.

I get that you, Sirpilla, Gravo, lot of interested parties would prefer a single school but that leaves me with, as always, a few questions. One, if Aquinas continues to hover at or near 100-120 students in the coming years, how long do you keep it open? How long do you get to turn it around when there is no sign of (significantly) increasing numbers in the feeder schools? Two, has anyone really examined the net effect of losing one school or the other? If you take away Central or Aquinas' physical location, how many of the current or perspective students can be served by one location or the other with a 15 minute drive? a 20 minute drive? a 25 minute drive, etc? Basically, what is the "middle"?

I don't think anyone is purposefully lying but, as you heard in that St Paul's mom's voice, frustration is getting high.
You do not adamantly say we are keeping both schools because neither school can serve the entire county when you plan on closing one. That would be a purposeful lie. I am sure your grandfather would agree. They are not beating around the bush or not cutting to the chase. There is no chase to cut to when you specifically state with certainty that "we are keeping both schools." If they know or believe otherwise, yes, that would be a lie.

They are doing this correctly by having public meetings rather than in secret and behind closed doors that caused the complete debacle with the feeder schools about 5 years ago. You simply do not make those statements if the plan is otherwise.

You know what I want and it is one "new" school building which I believe is being explored. Otherwise, they will attempt to keep both schools. If you technically close both schools and use one of the former buildings for the new school, that would be doomed to failure and I think Sirpilla is smart enough to realize that. Great minds think alike I guess. That combined school will have classes in the 50s in a short period of time. So you will have one Catholic high school in Stark County with only 200-250 kids in an aging building (if it is the current Central campus) that is meant to hold over 2,000 students and will cost at least 30 million dollars to properly renovate with asbestos remediation being half of the costs. Actually, Aquinas would be much easier and cheaper to renovate since we are only talking about driving a little further, correct?

Last edited by Summa; 09-12-17 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 09-12-17, 11:44 AM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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And all that can be covered in the other forum: http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthre...hlight=aquinas

Back to football. I'm going with CC 17-12. Could be rainy so probably not a lot of downfield passing and CC simply is unable to run the ball the same as in the past few years.
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Old 09-12-17, 12:34 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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And all that can be covered in the other forum: http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthre...hlight=aquinas

Back to football. I'm going with CC 17-12. Could be rainy so probably not a lot of downfield passing and CC simply is unable to run the ball the same as in the past few years.
Fair point. My position is well established.

17-12 . . . you think the Knights will cover? I think Central will win, as well, but I am not sure as to what I think the margin will be. I don't think it is a running clock.
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Old 09-12-17, 12:36 PM
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And all that can be covered in the other forum: http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthre...hlight=aquinas

Back to football. I'm going with CC 17-12. Could be rainy so probably not a lot of downfield passing and CC simply is unable to run the ball the same as in the past few years.
Aquinas's running game is not all that great either and Central played much better opponents. Aquinas has some good size on the team but no real speed this year. I would be very happy if that were the score but I do not see it being a competitive game this year. I agree with others that it will likely be a running clock the entire second half. Aquinas has had some good to great teams over the last 8 seasons so I can handle a couple down years. The Knights need to tone down the schedule the next couple years like Central did when they were down to help give the kids some success and get the numbers back up while they are down.

Hope for an injury free game for both schools.

Last edited by Buck1974; 09-12-17 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 09-12-17, 12:41 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Fair point. My position is well established.

17-12 . . . you think the Knights will cover? I think Central will win, as well, but I am not sure as to what I think the margin will be. I don't think it is a running clock.
Darn, I was hoping for a response to the great points and issues I raise.

The Board President seems to have the identical position I have which is also well established.

Last edited by Summa; 09-12-17 at 12:52 PM.
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