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  #1  
Old 04-15-18, 01:51 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Zuckerberg Admits Facebook Collects Data on Non-Users

Should it be illegal for Facebook to gather data about users who have never signed up for Facebook?



Quote:
Responding to a question poised by U.S. Representative Ben LujŠn (D-New Mexico), Zuckerberg responded that Facebook tracks non-users for security reasons. That means that these non-subscribers haven't a clue about what information Facebook has obtained about them. This didn't sit well with the lawmakers in Congress, who might draft regulations to be applied against the social media app and others of its ilk. "We've got to fix that," said Rep. LujŠn, referring to a process that forces non Facebook users to sign up for the service if they want to know what personal information the company has obtained. Facebook has responded by saying that it has no plans to develop a method to allow non-users to see the data about them collected by the company.
Read more:
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Face...ibers_id104089
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  #2  
Old 04-15-18, 01:56 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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So what ? What critical data was " stolen " ? Was anyone's SS number stolen no. If Hillary had been elected nobody would be talking about FB other than it is a great American monopoly.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-18, 02:28 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
So what ? What critical data was " stolen " ? Was anyone's SS number stolen no. If Hillary had been elected nobody would be talking about FB other than it is a great American monopoly.
We don't know the answers to your questions. FB won't tell you what info they have. They also apparently aren't saying how they have gathered the info.
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  #4  
Old 04-15-18, 02:42 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
We don't know the answers to your questions. FB won't tell you what info they have. They also apparently aren't saying how they have gathered the info.
Google, Twitter, numerous internet companies and financial companies do this as well as FB. Remember Equifax nobody even talks about that anymore, what happened their was lot worse than with FB but because the Russians " influenced " the election most politicians and media want to blame FB for Trump winning and this is their way of getting back at FB.

Last edited by Stirred not Shaken; 04-15-18 at 02:53 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-15-18, 03:49 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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These companies don't give users a choice to not share their data nor are they transparent about what is being collected and how. I think those are problems that need to be addressed.
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  #6  
Old 04-15-18, 04:37 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Every time you see that "like" button on a website, even if you have never had a Facebook account ever, and unless you have adblocking software and a couple other privacy applications, then that little button is actually a Java program (or some computer language) that is scouring absolutely everything on your computer. As much as they can get. It's the same with the phone -- except in this case, all your friends that have the Facebook app and your phone number saved are giving your info (network of friends, phone number, probable interests) and again, even if you have no FB account. They read your text messages to them on their phone, again courtesy of the app. They know every time you call. When you pick up, when you don't. They guess whether or not you're associating with a person based on call times, GPS location.

FB is getting even dirtier though now, trying to get medical records and stuff. They already know to a degree what your relatives died from (often its in the obituary, which is online) and they will target you in a way like "50% more likely than the average to die of heart disease" and market you drugs and so on.

Only a couple people in the House were really on top of it. The Senators were clueless completely. FB is an advertising agency with a website as a front. The "we want to connect the world" is just nonsense.
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  #7  
Old 04-15-18, 06:30 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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People act surprised like Obama didn't collect data on all Americans smh
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  #8  
Old 04-16-18, 08:04 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
We don't know the answers to your questions. FB won't tell you what info they have. They also apparently aren't saying how they have gathered the info.
Yes, they have. People freely gave them the information, whether by entering the information directly into their FB profile or by taking any number of quizzes to find out what kind of friend you are, who your ideal political party was, what Star Trek character you would be, whether you used to FB credentials to sign up for newsletters, genealogy websites, etc.

What info they actually have, they might not know exactly unless someone is looking for something specific and they ask the right question or ask it in a correct way. It's not like it's one massive file.
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  #9  
Old 04-16-18, 08:36 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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There are obviously legit concerns over data collection and use of private info, or what we think is private. However, because of political partisanship (as always) many in Congress will not be able to separate this issue from the Russian issue. Any meaningful reforms will be viewed politically as either an admission (by Pubs) or punishment (by Dems). That's too bad.

FB for the time being will draw on unlikely support (defensiveness really) among Trump republicans. "Who cares how large corporations collect share and use personal data?" Pretty ironic imo.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-18, 04:43 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Yes, they have. People freely gave them the information, whether by entering the information directly into their FB profile or by taking any number of quizzes to find out what kind of friend you are, who your ideal political party was, what Star Trek character you would be, whether you used to FB credentials to sign up for newsletters, genealogy websites, etc.
That's only a small part of what Facebook does. Their tracking cookies are always looking. Say you don't have Facebook at all. Never logged in, never even looked at a Facebook page in your life. You go to CNN, and read specific articles. Facebook's tracking cookies are there, recording every single article you read. They start making a profile out of that. Or say you look something up that's health related -- "enlarged prostate" on Google, or something equivalently none of anyone's business. Again, never had Facebook in your life, but the tracking cookie is on WebMD or whatever other site. Immediately reported to Facebook. This IP address is interested in this thing, and that IP address is 95% likely to be this person. They have something like 3,000 data points on you even with no account.

There are programs that block this on the computer-side, but Facebook goes even further. You send a text message to someone with the Facebook app on their phone. Immediately recorded -- this phone number, which belongs to SWMCinci, knows this person, who has these interests, and therefore is also likely to be interested in x, y, z, etc. It's pretty much impossible for you to expect your friends to remove the app, which cannot be blocked at all on an Apple phone and probably not on an Android phone either.

Say someone takes a picture of you and uploads it to Facebook without your knowledge. Even if they don't tag it as you, Facebook runs facial recognition on the picture, identifies you and sticks it in the file. SWMCinci was at x location on y date, with such and such people. Maybe your friend John, who is there, has a secret drug abuse problem. Would you like to donate to the cause? Or in the future, maybe your insurance company might increase your rates a little bit because people who are associated with drug abusers like John are statistically a higher risk, even though you've never done drugs in your life.

OK -- so say you don't think this is a big problem. You've got nothing to hide, you associate with upstanding people, and consumer profiles have been around for 100 years. Consider that Facebook runs a data point on who they think is having an affair. You better hope that the algorithm doesn't mistakenly put you in that category (happens all the time), and you start getting a bunch of advertisements for Victoria's Secret and Ashley Madison and Mrs. SWMCinci starts to wonder what's going on. Or even worse, that there's a hack and that gets spilled out falsely online.

These are just a few examples of things we know that Facebook does already. There's a lot more we have no idea about. And Facebook isn't the only company that does this, they're just by far the largest. It has to be stressed that it is not just about "voluntary" info. No Senators raised these questions at all. I only counted three Representatives (Blackburn, Castor, and Lujan) that understood this.

And I agree wholeheartedly with TigerPaw, it's sad this will break down on partisan lines.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-18, 08:09 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
That's only a small part of what Facebook does. Their tracking cookies are always looking. ........
So does Google, so does Yahoo, so does Microsoft....... take your pick. Almost every free site on the web uses that business model. As a matter of fact, so does Yappi. Maybe not directly, but take a swing around the web and see how often ads from companies whose websites you visit will show up in your browser. There are companies that collect and broker that information for companies like FB and Google and they provide feeds for them and other companies and websites - it's far more direct than TV and radio ads, but it allows the existence of a business that doesn't charge you for using their services.

I happen to know the guy who created the technology to do that about 20 years ago. Worked with him for a number of years.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-18, 11:15 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
So does Google, so does Yahoo, so does Microsoft....... take your pick. Almost every free site on the web uses that business model. As a matter of fact, so does Yappi. Maybe not directly, but take a swing around the web and see how often ads from companies whose websites you visit will show up in your browser. There are companies that collect and broker that information for companies like FB and Google and they provide feeds for them and other companies and websites - it's far more direct than TV and radio ads, but it allows the existence of a business that doesn't charge you for using their services.

I happen to know the guy who created the technology to do that about 20 years ago. Worked with him for a number of years.
Exactly, like I posted earlier it is only because Trump won the election and the Russians ran ads on FB that this is an issue. The media and congress are using FB as a scapegoat why Hillary lost.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-18, 05:42 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
So does Google, so does Yahoo, so does Microsoft....... take your pick. Almost every free site on the web uses that business model. As a matter of fact, so does Yappi. Maybe not directly, but take a swing around the web and see how often ads from companies whose websites you visit will show up in your browser. There are companies that collect and broker that information for companies like FB and Google and they provide feeds for them and other companies and websites - it's far more direct than TV and radio ads, but it allows the existence of a business that doesn't charge you for using their services.

I happen to know the guy who created the technology to do that about 20 years ago. Worked with him for a number of years.
But I don't even have to use the Internet to be swept up in Facebook's data collection, to say nothing of using their services (or Yappi's, or any others online) for free. What am I supposed to do if I don't want a shadow profile with sensitive information in it at a company with garbage security? Not use the telephone? Even a rotary wouldn't be secure.

Facebook has investigated collecting medical histories from hospitals. I mean, that's horrifying. We're way beyond the targeted advertising of some cookies on Netscape in 1998.
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  #14  
Old 04-17-18, 08:11 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
But I don't even have to use the Internet to be swept up in Facebook's data collection, to say nothing of using their services (or Yappi's, or any others online) for free. What am I supposed to do if I don't want a shadow profile with sensitive information in it at a company with garbage security? Not use the telephone? Even a rotary wouldn't be secure.

Facebook has investigated collecting medical histories from hospitals. I mean, that's horrifying. We're way beyond the targeted advertising of some cookies on Netscape in 1998.
HIPAA pretty much defines the limitations of doing anything with medical histories. I've dealt with the data schemes WITHIN a hospital, internally it can be a nightmare.

There ARE limitations to the data that can be collected if you don't have a FB account and how you interact with people, if you interact with applications that FB authored and your friends/targets use them - your real beef is with them for being lazy. I don't put my trust in any one software company. I will often look at the processes running on my computer, tablet, and cell phone to figure out what is using memory and battery - I will often shut things down regardless of the vendor if something is running and there is no reason for it to be running.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-18, 08:38 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
But I don't even have to use the Internet to be swept up in Facebook's data collection, to say nothing of using their services (or Yappi's, or any others online) for free. What am I supposed to do if I don't want a shadow profile with sensitive information in it at a company with garbage security? Not use the telephone? Even a rotary wouldn't be secure.

Facebook has investigated collecting medical histories from hospitals. I mean, that's horrifying. We're way beyond the targeted advertising of some cookies on Netscape in 1998.
It would be absolutely illegal to collect medical histories in any way, shape, or form. That would be a slam dunk lawsuit. I hope they try to collect mine, I could use a few hundred million dollars.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-18, 10:50 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
if you interact with applications that FB authored and your friends/targets use them - your real beef is with them for being lazy.
I thought we'd get around to this eventually.

You seem very knowledgeable about this subject and you obviously fully understand the technology behind it. So let me put it to you this way: do you think it is reasonable or even possible to expect that every associate you call not have the Facebook app on their phone? I don't use a smartphone, but it doesn't matter as I could dial from a rotary phone and still get swept up. What if you run a business that interacts with the public? An utter impossibility to avoid it. Should FB have a list of my clients? Again, this business itself can have zero Internet presence, not a computer or smartphone in the place, and the tracking would still take place.

In a perfect world I should be mad at the people with the app and lax security. In some ways I agree with you and I am somewhat irritated that people don't take this more seriously or even understand that this goes on. But this isn't a perfect world. I feel the bad actor is FB, not them. What you're asking is an impossibility, but having the privacy we did just 10 years ago isn't with an FCRA/HIPAA style regulation.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-18, 08:31 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
I thought we'd get around to this eventually.

You seem very knowledgeable about this subject and you obviously fully understand the technology behind it. So let me put it to you this way: do you think it is reasonable or even possible to expect that every associate you call not have the Facebook app on their phone? I don't use a smartphone, but it doesn't matter as I could dial from a rotary phone and still get swept up. What if you run a business that interacts with the public? An utter impossibility to avoid it. Should FB have a list of my clients? Again, this business itself can have zero Internet presence, not a computer or smartphone in the place, and the tracking would still take place.

In a perfect world I should be mad at the people with the app and lax security. In some ways I agree with you and I am somewhat irritated that people don't take this more seriously or even understand that this goes on. But this isn't a perfect world. I feel the bad actor is FB, not them. What you're asking is an impossibility, but having the privacy we did just 10 years ago isn't with an FCRA/HIPAA style regulation.
You have to recognize meaningful and meaningless data collection. You are protected from some forms of data collection by the government and by watchdog organizations that expose the bad characters.

For example, your belief that Facebook could have collected medical information without your active consent is absolutely incorrect. Europeans have similar protections about what data a company can collect and retain. In fact many other countries place limits on those exchanges and place the burden on consumers to opt-in. The idea is that you are going to receive ads anyway, but if you want them to be targeted for the products and services that interest you, if you opt in you may find products and services that you will actually want.

When the phone companies made Caller ID ubiquitous, your privacy to anyone you called went out the window. You could either key in a code, or pay to have the ID turned off but even in those cases your phone number would be displayed and could be captured for marketing use. That had nothing to do with Facebook. Calling someone that has a smartphone from a rotary provides no more information than that. A company with no Internet presence is in the same boat, there may be some activity that it does that shows up, but it is generally meaningless without a way to tie it to the organization.

In the case of Facebook (or any FB app/game/etc.) or any other application on a smartphone the installation process usually asks them if the application has permission to access the camera, phone, address list, browser history, etc. and it is up to the user to decide what information they want to allow those applications to use. As an example, I never give those apps the ability to access my contact list unless I see myself using the app in that way. Not if it is a convenience issue, but if I'm actually going to use the application to contact people (or take pictures, etc.).

Without a FB account or an Internet presence, the data that they collect is relatively meaningless for now. With AI there is a more realistic opportunity that some of that meaningless data can be assembled to provide some useful information but even then it is disparate and not generally associated with a specific individual and without some additional links and data points it might never be. There are some rules and regulations that would prevent the linking of various databases together to create a FB-style system that wouldn't need your permission to assemble it. BTW - those same rules prevents the government from doing similar things - even though it can link other things together.
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  #18  
Old 04-19-18, 04:36 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
For example, your belief that Facebook could have collected medical information without your active consent is absolutely incorrect.
I didn't say they had done this. I said they looked into it. It's not a "belief" of mine, it's something they have admitted to discussing as a possibility. It never got any further than the planning stages because they didn't think they could anonymize the data sufficiently enough to comply with HIPAA (or that that would work at all and still comply with the law), and likely that other problems would have resulted. That they have expressed interest in this kind of data is, I believe, concerning. You can read about it here and elsewhere:

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...h-data-sharing

Quote:
When the phone companies made Caller ID ubiquitous, your privacy to anyone you called went out the window. You could either key in a code, or pay to have the ID turned off but even in those cases your phone number would be displayed and could be captured for marketing use. That had nothing to do with Facebook. Calling someone that has a smartphone from a rotary provides no more information than that.
You're ignoring the progression of technology from the 1990s to now. The transmission of data at that time from one party to another via Caller ID was between you, that party, and the phone company. Full stop. But that's fine, I see your point.

Switch it the other way around though, which is actually how the majority of a client list might be gathered. Again, say I have a public-facing business. I take all the privacy considerations into account I can. But clients call me, and they have the app. A client list could be collected and put together, even sold to competitors without my knowledge. Whether FB does this at the present time is immaterial. They could, and my guess is the idea has at least been discussed.

Quote:
In the case of Facebook (or any FB app/game/etc.) or any other application on a smartphone the installation process usually asks them if the application has permission to access the camera, phone, address list, browser history, etc. and it is up to the user to decide what information they want to allow those applications to use. As an example, I never give those apps the ability to access my contact list unless I see myself using the app in that way.
You should know full well that because of the ubiquity of the apps on the smartphones of the people on your contact list, your contact list can be essentially derived almost completely from theirs. As a privacy protection, what you're doing is borderline worthless. And although FB says they stopped interacting with data brokers, others haven't made a similar promise. Once one broker has it, it spreads like wildfire. Your trust is placed entirely on the assumption that they don't do this, along with not being under the umbrella of their Terms of Service. I don't doubt that many of the practices or potential worries I have discussed are somewhat constrained by some pieces of existing legislation, but they are very outdated and that Congressional hearing was an absolute joke. About 3 or 4 out of 538 legislators were able to understand a damn thing.

Quote:
Without a FB account or an Internet presence, the data that they collect is relatively meaningless for now. With AI there is a more realistic opportunity that some of that meaningless data can be assembled to provide some useful information but even then it is disparate and not generally associated with a specific individual and without some additional links and data points it might never be. There are some rules and regulations that would prevent the linking of various databases together to create a FB-style system that wouldn't need your permission to assemble it. BTW - those same rules prevents the government from doing similar things - even though it can link other things together.
3,000 data points for a non-user are meaningless? This "AI" stuff is a buzzword. Call it what it is: a computer program. We could have written a program to derive business client lists automatically back in my high school programming class. What has changed is the miniaturization of the computer into the smartphone, and the ability to capture the information needed via the app. After that, it's simple. FB is laughing at us. Again, if there are rules and regulations that prevent this linking, that's great. So I would still feel better with the ability to correct or opt-out of incidental data collection, similar to freezing or correcting a credit report. Most people would never bother and don't care, so FB's business model would not be impacted. Now obviously it's far more complex than a credit report and you can never get rid of all of it because as you say, it's not like some master file. I would be very interested in creative people coming up with ideas on how to proceed from point A to point B, though.

I have to say I remain unimpressed by the world's greatest data broker. Their services are just a front. It's nothing more than a 2018 version of an America Online-style walled garden, with less functionality, that spies endlessly instead of charging $2.95 an hour.
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  #19  
Old 04-19-18, 07:35 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
........
You should know full well that because of the ubiquity of the apps on the smartphones of the people on your contact list, your contact list can be essentially derived almost completely from theirs. As a privacy protection, what you're doing is borderline worthless. .........I don't doubt that many of the practices or potential worries I have discussed are somewhat constrained by some pieces of existing legislation, but they are very outdated and that Congressional hearing was an absolute joke. About 3 or 4 out of 538 legislators were able to understand a damn thing.
..........
I remember when my CompuServe bill would routinely top $100/month. While I do not control what my friends/associates do, I can control what I do and I choose to not hand over information that various service providers do not need. They are not getting my contact list from me, nor do I give them control over various appliances and applications that I use.

As far as privacy protection, we do what we can. I recognize that while I'm driving around my car tag is photographed, my toll tag is providing information about my speed, direction, and route. When I fly, various pieces of information are made available and because I am registered with the Global Entry and TSA programs I have given permission for various data points (military service, security clearances, etc.) to be linked to make my travel more convenient for me. Every time I use my ATM card, the bank is gaining more information about what I use my money on..... the county tax office has made my property ownership data public........ the State sells my information on vehicle registrations and licensing to 3rd party vendors..... the SEC has records on corporate documents that I have signed or when I was in a material position that restricted my ability to trade company stock....

Your privacy was eroding long before Facebook was created and will further erode after Facebook becomes the next Myspace or Netscape. AI is a little more than a program, yes that's the foundation, but the ability of a chunk of software to analyze billions of chunks of data and determine a pattern, learn from that, and then figure out how to link those patterns together is a lot more advanced than your "Hello World" 1st program. Then you were telling the machine what to do, we're getting close to the point that the machines will not need us to direct them.
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Old 04-19-18, 08:06 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Without a FB account or an Internet presence, the data that they collect is relatively meaningless for now. With AI there is a more realistic opportunity that some of that meaningless data can be assembled to provide some useful information but even then it is disparate and not generally associated with a specific individual and without some additional links and data points it might never be. There are some rules and regulations that would prevent the linking of various databases together to create a FB-style system that wouldn't need your permission to assemble it. BTW - those same rules prevents the government from doing similar things - even though it can link other things together.
I'm curious, what do you think is preventing them from linking databases?

I worked for a couple companies where I would try to run some reports and get error messages I didn't understand... When analysts or IT gave the response "the databases aren't linked" everyone just accepted it and moved on. After a couple traditional financial roles I took a position that put me a lot closer to business data and I quickly understood the relationships between various pieces. Only took me a couple months of learning online to figure out how to link it all together using computer software and databases. Getting computers to identify relationships between data to automatically create links is hard (I still handle actually creating relationships manually), but considering myself (tech-savvy business user/at best below average self-taught computer programmer) was able to learn how to write algorithms to clean my data I simply don't believe algorithms to link databases aren't out there. It's not that hard.
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  #21  
Old 04-19-18, 12:54 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
I'm curious, what do you think is preventing them from linking databases?

I worked for a couple companies where I would try to run some reports and get error messages I didn't understand... When analysts or IT gave the response "the databases aren't linked" everyone just accepted it and moved on. After a couple traditional financial roles I took a position that put me a lot closer to business data and I quickly understood the relationships between various pieces. Only took me a couple months of learning online to figure out how to link it all together using computer software and databases. Getting computers to identify relationships between data to automatically create links is hard (I still handle actually creating relationships manually), but considering myself (tech-savvy business user/at best below average self-taught computer programmer) was able to learn how to write algorithms to clean my data I simply don't believe algorithms to link databases aren't out there. It's not that hard.
Most organizations don't take a holistic approach to data, years ago the application was considered more important than the data. So people bought (or built) applications that met their requirements and the data was a result of the application. There were operational advantages as well, database operations generally require computing horsepower and multiple, smaller data elements were easier to deal with than massive records with multiple search keys, especially with relational databases. Physically, it's a relatively simple process to link databases to share information - operationally it can bring a system to its knees.

Having said that, there are some legal ramifications to data handling that limit what you can do. Where ownership of the data has been defined (like medical information) you cannot provide access to that information to someone that has no need to know it - for example a hospital clerk working on your billing information has no need to know your medical diagnosis. In some cases, separation of the data is a protection. Sarbanes-Oxley and Basel (EMEA) standards had companies introduce controls and limitations on data access in order to prevent accounting irregularities or the potential of them in many cases the restrictions don't seem to be called for by the regulations but some organizations felt that they wanted the extra control. When Facebook bought WhatsApp, one of the concerns was data-sharing, as part of the approval process they had to follow some strict guidelines for merging and using that data. When DoubleClick acquired Abacus, there were privacy concerns of a targeted ad company having the data from an information brokerage company...... So while they "can" the reality is that they "can't".
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Old 04-22-18, 12:07 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
AI is a little more than a program, yes that's the foundation, but the ability of a chunk of software to analyze billions of chunks of data and determine a pattern, learn from that, and then figure out how to link those patterns together is a lot more advanced than your "Hello World" 1st program. Then you were telling the machine what to do, we're getting close to the point that the machines will not need us to direct them.
A little off topic but I think I just have a problem with the "AI" term. A program that can operationally derive it's own operation to better serve a request from an operator isn't really intelligent, it's just more complex. Vastly more complex, of course, but still.

Regardless, I don't think running a program that says "compile a list of people who called 833-XXXX" is beyond the bounds of human ability. Slightly more complex than that, of course, as they have to determine what is a business and a multitude of other factors, but Facebook has had 10 years to do these sorts of things. I don't think AI is needed in this case. And I do feel that anything that can be monetized will be monetized, as they have virtually no other product (unlike Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc who have lots of software or physical products, or both). To your point in another post about merger/acquisition conditions and existing legislation preventing merging of databases: I don't trust them to obey any of it. I think if you look at Ted Cruz's line of questioning from the hearings then it's clear the FTC consent decree Facebook signed in 2011 has already been violated, and there's no political will to do anything about it. And not just in the way he talks about, but in many others as well.
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Old 04-22-18, 10:58 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
A little off topic but I think I just have a problem with the "AI" term. .......
A program is a collection of code that follows a human derived algorithm and applies it over and over to obtain some results on a quantity of data. You are correct, some of the easiest things to do is write an instruction set that says "search X and tell me how many times Y occurs". As we got more complex in our thinking, we created the code to perform more complicated examinations of data and to provide the result.

AI takes it to another level because the code can add functionality to itself like a child that is taught a basic alphabet and limited reading comprehension - can read a book, infer the meaning of words based on other words around it, and even create a mental picture of the world being described in those words. Things that go outside what they have been taught or programmed. AI has the ability to go through a lot of data, detect patterns that might not have been expected, then analyze those patterns to draw a conclusion that no one suspected might be there - go beyond the programming that they were given in the beginning. So you are correct, but if you define intelligence, you can also see that it begins to apply to the machines.

Google created an AI system that could communicate with another AI system in a language that the developers created. Within weeks the AI projects created their own language that was much more efficient and the developers couldn't understand. They shut the project down because they couldn't monitor what the AI was doing.
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Old 04-23-18, 04:20 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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There have been movements to replace calling it "AI" for quite some time. It's not particularly accurate but, it sticks because.

Neural net in and of itself doesn't constitute "AI." Just being able to mimic, pattern classify, doesn't make it "AI." Being able to create code, makes it "AI." Creating code that changes response to previously exposed stimili as opposed to utilizing so many stored responses it appears to be thinking, is more what a CS is going to refer to as AI.
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