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  #31  
Old 07-16-17, 10:37 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Ok. Cool.

I'm just curious where those facts came from.
I'm just curious if you were stranded on Gilligan's island.....

Some of those "worst ever" claims are so obvious that a person can only look foolish by questioning them, if one considers this objectively.

If an Administration pushes with all its might to raise the "poverty line", of course the net result in the wake of a recession is record numbers of "impoverished Americans". Our crowning achievement in the 21st century thus far is that we have the richest po' folks in history. It's an integral part of the "Culture of Discontent" that modern Dems need to appear relevant. It's their Sirens' Song.

If an Administration pushes with all their might to raise the income level to collect "Food Stamps", of course the net result is a record number on Food Stamps. This is how they move toward a UBI that they pray will guarantee them every election in the future.

This stuff isn't usually all that complicated if one is willing to be honest and non-partisan in one's thinking. It's fitting the blame to party platform narratives that tricks things up.
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  #32  
Old 07-16-17, 10:48 AM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I'm just curious if you were stranded on Gilligan's island.....

Some of those "worst ever" claims are so obvious that a person can only look foolish by questioning them, if one considers this objectively.

If an Administration pushes with all its might to raise the "poverty line", of course the net result in the wake of a recession is record numbers of "impoverished Americans". Our crowning achievement in the 21st century thus far is that we have the richest po' folks in history. It's an integral part of the "Culture of Discontent" that modern Dems need to appear relevant. It's their Sirens' Song.

If an Administration pushes with all their might to raise the income level to collect "Food Stamps", of course the net result is a record number on Food Stamps. This is how they move toward a UBI that they pray will guarantee them every election in the future.

This stuff isn't usually all that complicated if one is willing to be honest and non-partisan in one's thinking. It's fitting the blame to party platform narratives that tricks things up.
OK. I just wanted some sources. Not sure how that makes me look foolish. No need to get on a soapbox over such a simple request.
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  #33  
Old 07-16-17, 10:49 AM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
At what point does this become the Trump economy? Is there a certain date that happens?
The present economy is a result of previous economic policies and also part of the past economies. Things like debt and laws carry over and become part of the present economy until new policies are implemented or redirected.

Some things have a immediate impact (tax rebates, war) others take decades. All are somewhat controlled by things like consumer confidence and other intangibles. I would say a average of around 2 years for economic policy to have much of a impact on a economy this size...unless we hit the lottery or our house gets hit with a tornado etc.
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  #34  
Old 07-16-17, 10:49 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
At what point does this become the Trump economy? Is there a certain date that happens?
Officially, it's when his first Budget is in action.

As far as the Markets' reactions after Nov. 9, 2016, I put that squarely into Trump's "+ column" - even though the numbers will improve Obummer's look during his final Budget.
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  #35  
Old 07-16-17, 10:51 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
OK. I just wanted some sources. Not sure how that makes me look foolish. No need to get on a soapbox over such a simple request.



sure

I thought I made a solid grammatical effort in that post to avoid the appearance of singling you out. Feeling guilty ?
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  #36  
Old 07-16-17, 10:58 AM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post



sure

I thought I made a solid grammatical effort in that post to avoid the appearance of singling you out. Feeling guilty ?
Nah, it's called reading comprehension.

Asking someone to prove their claims isn't a bad thing. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Providing sources actually serves to strengthen one's argument. Putting me down for asking only serves to weaken it.
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  #37  
Old 07-16-17, 11:01 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Nah, it's called reading comprehension.

Asking someone to prove their claims isn't a bad thing. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Providing sources actually serves to strengthen one's argument. Putting me down for asking only serves to weaken it.
Your side should have tried that with the Russian hacking nonsense, huh ?

As far as reading comprehension, you do appear to be sorely lacking in that regard.
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  #38  
Old 07-16-17, 11:09 AM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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U.S. Economy Posts Strong Jobs Gains In June

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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Your side should have tried that with the Russian hacking nonsense, huh ?

As far as reading comprehension, you do appear to be sorely lacking.
Complete non-sequitur. Do try and stay on topic please.

"Your side" is a pretty funny attempt at labeling me though.

Last edited by WestSideBomber; 07-16-17 at 11:38 AM.
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  #39  
Old 07-16-17, 11:24 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I fully comprehend what I read beneath your username, thank you very much.
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  #40  
Old 07-16-17, 03:29 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
At what point does this become the Trump economy? Is there a certain date that happens?
There never is a date an economy is owned lock, stock & barrel by a given POTUS. I think of it like a continuum as you go deeper into an administration's time in office the more the economy "belongs" to that administration. But it's never 100% as some decisions a POTUS makes might not impact the economy for 10 years while other decisions have an immediate effect. One example of this is energy costs:

Trump's decision to approve several pipeline projects that were on hold, appoint folks like Rick Perry (Energy) and Scott Pruitt (EPA) to head departments critical to the efficient extraction of oil & natural gas while sending a clear signal that he favored rolling back cumbersome regulations can only act to boost the energy sector. Even better was the decision to withdraw from the Paris Climate accord which will result in much lower energy costs and kick off a virtuous economic cycle where low oil costs translate to stronger economic growth.

In contrast a Hillary administration would have done the exact opposite to Trump resulting in much higher energy costs, more burdensome regulations on the oil industry, complete compliance with the Paris Accord and the even worse "climate change" agreements likely to flow out of it. This would have led to slower economic growth and the joy of $4 - $5/gallon gasoline prices! Not to mention put a whole lot of MONEY into the pockets of Vladimir Putin - just saying!
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  #41  
Old 07-16-17, 03:50 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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We are due for a recession during Trump's first term. This will not be because of anything Trump does, but just because it's part of the natural cycle of a healthy economy. However, the voting public doesn't typically understand that nuance. I fear if a recession hits while the Republicans control the entire federal government(as they likely will until at least 2020) the voters will hold them accountable for it.

So as tempting as it is to boast about the economy(and he deserves to, I seem to recall everyone saying the Dow would immediately go in the toilet if Trump were elected) it is important to set reasonable expectations among the voters about how much damage from the previous admin's policies you can truly undo. Declaring victory in having undone Obama's term would be the equivalent of Bush's "mission accomplished" gaffe. Obama had 8 years to implant his vision of economic policy, to think the effects can all be undone permanently, much less in the first 6 months, is naive.

Often times, the effect of a policy isn't truly felt until many years down the road. I expect many of the Obama era policies are still waiting to have their full impact, and a recessed economy would be extra susceptible to them
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  #42  
Old 07-16-17, 07:50 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
We are due for a recession during Trump's first term. This will not be because of anything Trump does, but just because it's part of the natural cycle of a healthy economy. However, the voting public doesn't typically understand that nuance. I fear if a recession hits while the Republicans control the entire federal government(as they likely will until at least 2020) the voters will hold them accountable for it.

So as tempting as it is to boast about the economy(and he deserves to, I seem to recall everyone saying the Dow would immediately go in the toilet if Trump were elected) it is important to set reasonable expectations among the voters about how much damage from the previous admin's policies you can truly undo. Declaring victory in having undone Obama's term would be the equivalent of Bush's "mission accomplished" gaffe. Obama had 8 years to implant his vision of economic policy, to think the effects can all be undone permanently, much less in the first 6 months, is naive.

Often times, the effect of a policy isn't truly felt until many years down the road. I expect many of the Obama era policies are still waiting to have their full impact, and a recessed economy would be extra susceptible to them
Well said, except a healthy economy does not completely depend on a exponentially increasing debt= money model.
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  #43  
Old 07-16-17, 09:59 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Well if you ask SWMCinci, 10 per part time is good enough to raise family on.
If you are such a failure that the best job you can get is minimum wage, your best bet is to go ahead and get yourself sterilized so that you don't try to produce a litter into poverty.

Literally, better than 95% of the jobs in this country pay more than minimum wage - if you can't learn enough on the job to make yourself more valuable or can't take on a more valuable responsibility you have no reason to start a family. None.

There's a reason most families actually stop producing kids and a lot of it has to do with economics. If a middle class family can stop at 2 or 3, why would someone that can't support themselves be so stupid and selfish that they would add to the poverty in this or any other country?

Last edited by SWMCinci; 07-16-17 at 10:15 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-16-17, 10:01 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
At what point does this become the Trump economy? Is there a certain date that happens?
Obama and the Dems blamed Bush throughout Obama's term and Pelosi still does........
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  #45  
Old 07-16-17, 10:25 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
If you are such a failure that the best job you can get is minimum wage, your best bet is to go ahead and get yourself sterilized so that you don't try to produce a litter into poverty.

Literally, better than 95% of the jobs in this country pay more than minimum wage - if you can't learn enough on the job to make yourself more valuable or can't take on a more valuable responsibility you have no reason to start a family. None.

There's a reason most families actually stop producing kids and a lot of it has to do with economics. If a middle class family can stop at 2 or 3, why would someone that can't support themselves be so stupid and selfish that they would add to the poverty in this or any other country?

Moral of this story: poor people don't deserve to have families.
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  #46  
Old 07-16-17, 10:32 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Moral of this story: poor people don't deserve to have families.
You disagree that if you can't support a child you shouldn't have a child?
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  #47  
Old 07-16-17, 10:37 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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U.S. Economy Posts Strong Jobs Gains In June

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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
You disagree that if you can't support a child you shouldn't have a child?

Not at all. But the idea that "if the best job you can get is minimum wage, your best bet is to go ahead and get yourself sterilized" is pretty moronic. That's mostly the part I was referring to. Should've bolded it.
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  #48  
Old 07-17-17, 08:41 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
We are due for a recession during Trump's first term. This will not be because of anything Trump does, but just because it's part of the natural cycle of a healthy economy. However, the voting public doesn't typically understand that nuance. I fear if a recession hits while the Republicans control the entire federal government(as they likely will until at least 2020) the voters will hold them accountable for it.

So as tempting as it is to boast about the economy(and he deserves to, I seem to recall everyone saying the Dow would immediately go in the toilet if Trump were elected) it is important to set reasonable expectations among the voters about how much damage from the previous admin's policies you can truly undo. Declaring victory in having undone Obama's term would be the equivalent of Bush's "mission accomplished" gaffe. Obama had 8 years to implant his vision of economic policy, to think the effects can all be undone permanently, much less in the first 6 months, is naive.

Often times, the effect of a policy isn't truly felt until many years down the road. I expect many of the Obama era policies are still waiting to have their full impact, and a recessed economy would be extra susceptible to them
This condition is much like when Bush II took office. This is why W's people immediately threw a $500 tax rebate (with his name on the check ) at everyone, came up with the child tax credit, and fueled a false prosperity/housing bubble with cheap mortgages and cheap equity borrowing. Bush inherited a better job market, though.

As you say, given the fact that quality jobs from private sources have become more and more scarce through every year of Obummer's tenure makes our position more tenuous. That's not completely Obummer's fault, though. It's the natural result of the globalization that was initiated by Bush Sr's New World Order concept, feeding market greed for gain that is willing to destroy national interest in the name of corporate advances. They kill the host organism if we permit it.

This is why I like Trump. His "fair market" concepts encourage a more symbiotic relationship with corporations and the nation that protects them. China gets it. We used to. They are just starting from a slave state, where we need to preserve and nurture what we have thanks to our grandparents.

The wide-open environment you'd seem to favor by my read of your posts is the death of the American Dream when combined with tech advances.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 07-17-17 at 09:38 AM.
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  #49  
Old 07-17-17, 08:54 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Not at all. But the idea that "if the best job you can get is minimum wage, your best bet is to go ahead and get yourself sterilized" is pretty moronic. That's mostly the part I was referring to. Should've bolded it.
Norplant in exchange for welfare/food stamps/WIC is a good idea, though. There should be a chip in the friggin' BC device where the money card won't work unless it's in place. Some sort of proximity thing in the ATM that needs to read both a card chip and a BC chip in a small radius.......

And while we're at it, put a chip in every steering wheel for cell phones to read that blacks the screen if it's closer than 4 feet to that steering wheel.
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  #50  
Old 07-17-17, 09:30 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Not at all. But the idea that "if the best job you can get is minimum wage, your best bet is to go ahead and get yourself sterilized" is pretty moronic. That's mostly the part I was referring to. Should've bolded it.
If you are barely able to support yourself, why would you even risk having a kid? I get the SJW mentality that sterilizing the poor is "evil", but getting someone pregnant while you can barely afford your own existence is just as "evil".

Moronic is not being able to take care of yourself and then expecting society to care for your offspring when you failed to make proper choices with regard to your life and actions.
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  #51  
Old 07-17-17, 09:40 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
If you are barely able to support yourself, why would you even risk having a kid? I get the SJW mentality that sterilizing the poor is "evil", but getting someone pregnant while you can barely afford your own existence is just as "evil".

Moronic is not being able to take care of yourself and then expecting society to care for your offspring when you failed to make proper choices with regard to your life and actions.
Flat out sterilizing the poor, even as "punishment" for a small litter of welfare piggies, is stealing hope. We can't do that.
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  #52  
Old 07-17-17, 12:05 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Flat out sterilizing the poor, even as "punishment" for a small litter of welfare piggies, is stealing hope. We can't do that.
I wouldn't force it, unless they turned to the tax-paying public to cover their mistakes. After our 3rd, I had an inexpensive procedure to make sure we wouldn't have 4. Not a big deal.

But if you are poor, with no potential to be anything but poor, you owe it to yourself and every potential off-spring to not bring them into the world. Whether that is sterilization or voluntary abstinence is up to the individual.
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  #53  
Old 07-17-17, 12:56 PM
JoshuaRanch JoshuaRanch is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
OK. I just wanted some sources. Not sure how that makes me look foolish. No need to get on a soapbox over such a simple request.
Rather than use this always used reversal technique, how about YOU find the sources to deny anything I wrote.
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  #54  
Old 07-17-17, 01:46 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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The party that morally objects to and/or is unwilling to pay for contraception, family planning, and heaven forbid an abortion, is going to forcibly sterilize people, lol. Smh.
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  #55  
Old 07-17-17, 02:22 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The party that morally objects to and/or is unwilling to pay for contraception, family planning, and heaven forbid an abortion, is going to forcibly sterilize people, lol. Smh.
No norplant, no kid money. Probably should screen for drugs to get paid, too. Totally optional. Don't like it, your kids will still get the first 2 hots at school for free if they show up, so party on.
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  #56  
Old 07-17-17, 04:01 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
There never is a date an economy is owned lock, stock & barrel by a given POTUS. I think of it like a continuum as you go deeper into an administration's time in office the more the economy "belongs" to that administration. But it's never 100% as some decisions a POTUS makes might not impact the economy for 10 years while other decisions have an immediate effect. One example of this is energy costs:

Trump's decision to approve several pipeline projects that were on hold, appoint folks like Rick Perry (Energy) and Scott Pruitt (EPA) to head departments critical to the efficient extraction of oil & natural gas while sending a clear signal that he favored rolling back cumbersome regulations can only act to boost the energy sector. Even better was the decision to withdraw from the Paris Climate accord which will result in much lower energy costs and kick off a virtuous economic cycle where low oil costs translate to stronger economic growth.

In contrast a Hillary administration would have done the exact opposite to Trump resulting in much higher energy costs, more burdensome regulations on the oil industry, complete compliance with the Paris Accord and the even worse "climate change" agreements likely to flow out of it. This would have led to slower economic growth and the joy of $4 - $5/gallon gasoline prices! Not to mention put a whole lot of MONEY into the pockets of Vladimir Putin - just saying!
Interesting AND impressive interview with Energy Secretary Rick Perry:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ri...rticle/2628449

Trump's energy policies will have a huge & positive effect on the economy in both the near AND long term. Also Perry reminds us that the value of oil isn't just in gasoline. Petroleum & Natural Gas by products are hugely important to keeping a modern industrial economy going:

Perry: (laughing) Well, this is cracking those molecules so that you can have different byproducts — ethane, ethylene — that go into the petrochemical industry, and yes, that is adding value. That is creating a hub. If you just took that gas and burned it at a power plant, it's sort of like cooking your breakfast using $100 bills. It will cook your breakfast, but it's a pretty expensive way to do it.

But if you take that gas, process it, crack it, send different streams different ways to be used in a lot of valued-added processing, that can happen right here in this region. So, one job becomes 10 jobs. And those are high-value jobs.
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  #57  
Old 07-17-17, 04:29 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The party that morally objects to and/or is unwilling to pay for contraception, family planning, and heaven forbid an abortion, is going to forcibly sterilize people, lol. Smh.
Sometimes you just have to accept responsibility for your own actions and lifestyle..... like I said, I wouldn't force it on anyone unless they were holding out their hand for me to cover the outcome of their entertainment. I just think you take responsibility for your actions.
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  #58  
Old 07-17-17, 06:27 PM
domi domi is offline
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Originally Posted by JoshuaRanch View Post
Rather than use this always used reversal technique, how about YOU find the sources to deny anything I wrote.
Trump and Obama colluded (not illegally, though) to defeat Hillary and are harboring illegal immigrants and children on both Mars and Venus. Go ahead and try to find sources that prove me wrong.

While we're at it, Elvis is still alive.
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  #59  
Old 07-17-17, 06:46 PM
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I would like to point out the dollar is strong. So now is the time to travel to europe!
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  #60  
Old 07-17-17, 08:04 PM
JoshuaRanch JoshuaRanch is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
Trump and Obama colluded (not illegally, though) to defeat Hillary and are harboring illegal immigrants and children on both Mars and Venus. Go ahead and try to find sources that prove me wrong.

While we're at it, Elvis is still alive.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????? You went beyond your range of being cutesy/smart, do you even know what you wrote above, did you read it before you posted it? Hint - Mars/Venus? If you had wrote a warehouse on earth......., why am I even explaining this to you, why should I have to, again, I'm trying to fix dumb and it can't be fixed.

Someone on this forum, just like all the other forums, refute and dispute what I write, please. Someone write "JR, I don't agree with you, here's why, here are some statistics, here are some facts". Or have an objective alternative factual opinion. Someone, just every now and then, please do that. Do not say "you're wrong" or "what are your sources" or "could you list your sources". Or correct my grammar, or tell me its 97 rather than 96, or tell me the year was 1671 rather than 1669. My gosh its like I'm back at JJ again. Form over substance, complete ignorance of the premise. Please don't distort, distract, deflect, reverse or adhom on me because you don't like the message. Explain yourself, objectively, intelligently. Don't RADDD me. That just means you're dumb. Be original, be objective. 9 out of 10 posters on here just sit around and wait to respond to the few of us who actually can write something objective and original. And then they RADDD the thread and post. If you can't do that, don't respond. The guys and gals that can, great, I always enjoy communicating with you (you know who you are).
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