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  #1  
Old 04-29-19, 04:20 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Keep 3-Point Line at Its Current Distance?

Noticed at one of the tournament games they put down a removable line at a college venue (looked like tape from a distance). It wasn't the most professional job of creating this line and seems a bit inefficient. Some of the line looked to be coming up at the baseline. Would it be better for the OHSAA to adopt the college 3-point line so games at college arenas are more consistent?
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  #2  
Old 04-29-19, 04:31 PM
playboi12 playboi12 is offline
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Really it depends. How easy would be be it make a new line on the floor? Could you sand out the current arc and paint another in? Or would you have to put in a new floor? I can see where it would be a hefty burden on many schools to install a new floor altogether. I've played on both and I don't think there is a huge difference.
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Old 04-29-19, 04:47 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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The OHSAA is not going to adopt a new 3-point line unless the NFHS does. And this is unlikely because (1) it isn't necessary and, (2) you guessed it, it would require schools, rec centers, etc. to spend money.

As for the crooked line in the OHSAA tournament, I'm sure if people had an issue with it, the OHSAA found out and will address it.
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  #4  
Old 04-29-19, 04:59 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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My wishlist? Take away the three point line altogether. It used to reward a difficult shot but everyone practices the 3 to the point that their % is better from behind the arc and the art of the mid-range jumper (elbow, bank shot from 15) is all but lost.
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  #5  
Old 04-29-19, 05:20 PM
1 time 1 time is offline
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1. I’ve always said the high school 3 pt shot was a long foul shot rewarded into 3 points. That’s a joke. 2. Move the line back 6-8 inches so only the best can make a real 3. Third point. Completely take the 3 point line out of grades 2-8. Now kids have to learn the real skills of the game and the game itself. Most kids at HS level have lost their skill level for various reasons, but this rule is a Big one.
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  #6  
Old 04-29-19, 07:11 PM
Justice Justice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Noticed at one of the tournament games they put down a removable line at a college venue (looked like tape from a distance). It wasn't the most professional job of creating this line and seems a bit inefficient. Some of the line looked to be coming up at the baseline. Would it be better for the OHSAA to adopt the college 3-point line so games at college arenas are more consistent?
I believe just leave it where it is.
I believe we need a 30 second shot clock.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-19, 06:46 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Shot clock has already been debated and survey says, "No ".
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  #8  
Old 04-30-19, 07:39 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 time View Post
1. I’ve always said the high school 3 pt shot was a long foul shot rewarded into 3 points. That’s a joke. 2. Move the line back 6-8 inches so only the best can make a real 3. Third point. Completely take the 3 point line out of grades 2-8. Now kids have to learn the real skills of the game and the game itself. Most kids at HS level have lost their skill level for various reasons, but this rule is a Big one.
What makes you think high school players that shoot high percentages from 19'9" won't adjust just fine to another 6-8 inches? In a few more years you'd be arguing to move the line back again...and again...and again...where does it stop?

Solution looking for a problem. There are much more prudent rules changes for the NFHS to consider.
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  #9  
Old 04-30-19, 10:40 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
What makes you think high school players that shoot high percentages from 19'9" won't adjust just fine to another 6-8 inches? In a few more years you'd be arguing to move the line back again...and again...and again...where does it stop?

Solution looking for a problem. There are much more prudent rules changes for the NFHS to consider.
Or make it a priority to call the rules as they are currently written. It's amazing how many HS referees (obviously not all of them) allow a kid to look like an NBA player. I haven't seen a game in years where traveling has been called more than a couple times. HS is getting close to being unwatchable due to the lack of rules enforcement. I quit watching NBA years ago....college and HS aren't far from being a game that no longer resembles basketball
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  #10  
Old 04-30-19, 02:38 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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1) Good shooters will adapt to a line further out. Bad ones will just take worse shots. It's meaningless to move it. It's not the distance of the line that's the issue.
2) On its own, a shot clock won't turn kids into better players. HOWEVER, a shot clock will force coaches to adapt, and that would require teaching and developing more offensive skills sets as they're needed much more with a shot clock. That results in better basketball overall.
3) Refs can't let basketball turn into rugby. Alot of games have turned into this. It's not basketball.
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  #11  
Old 04-30-19, 02:50 PM
1 time 1 time is offline
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Shot clock will not improve skills. Skills will improve when more players spend more time developing their skills by putting in much more off season work on their own. That’s not happening today.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-19, 03:05 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
3) Refs can't let basketball turn into rugby. Alot of games have turned into this. It's not basketball.
But shouldn’t the refs “let ‘em play!!!” ?

In all seriousness, I work in some conferences where I’m stunned at how much physicality the teams think they can get away with. My hunch is that some of my peers aren’t doing their job.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-19, 03:53 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 time View Post
Completely take the 3 point line out of grades 2-8. Now kids have to learn the real skills of the game and the game itself.
That is an excellent idea. Put the emphasis on fundamentals. Watching kids who aren't strong enough to shoot the ball, throw it at the basket hoping to get lucky changes a game of skill to a game of chance.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-19, 04:25 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
My hunch is that some of my peers aren’t doing their job.
In some conferences officials don't make the assignment list without a direct recommendation by at least three coaches. They'll do anything to work that conference so they essentially sell their officiating souls to get in and stay in, just so they can say.. " I work the ____ "

Bugs the hell out of me..........
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  #15  
Old 04-30-19, 04:28 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1 time View Post
Third point. Completely take the 3 point line out of grades 2-8. Now kids have to learn the real skills of the game and the game itself.
Been advocating this for years.... Kids don't know how to score anymore
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  #16  
Old 04-30-19, 04:40 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
In some conferences officials don't make the assignment list without a direct recommendation by at least three coaches. They'll do anything to work that conference so they essentially sell their officiating souls to get in and stay in, just so they can say.. " I work the ____ "

Bugs the hell out of me..........
Thankfully, I don't work in any conference like that (at least not that I know of). Amazes me how many self-important high school assigners act like their gigs are hanging on by a thread.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-19, 05:34 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Thankfully, I don't work in any conference like that (at least not that I know of). Amazes me how many self-important high school assigners act like their gigs are hanging on by a thread.
Not necessarily on the assigners as they work for the leagues and if they want to keep their jobs, they do what the schools (coaches) want.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-19, 06:15 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Not necessarily on the assigners as they work for the leagues and if they want to keep their jobs, they do what the schools (coaches) want.
Kinda my point. Kowtowing to coaches is a conflict of interest. Assigners that let coaches dictate who works their games and how those games will be officiated (often contrary to OHSAA expectations) are despicable.

Oh well. There are pluses and minuses to the assigning structure in Ohio, but it's better than some other states where you can only work for one assigner who dictates your whole schedule.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-19, 06:28 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Oh well. There are pluses and minuses to the assigning structure in Ohio, but it's better than some other states where you can only work for one assigner who dictates your whole schedule.
Been there done that too in other states... Not good
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  #20  
Old 05-01-19, 01:12 PM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Biggest issue with high school game right now is not lack of shot clock or 3 point line. It is the grabbing, pushing and rugby stuff that refs allow that takes the skill out of the game. First thing I would do is put in the restricted line inside the key for block/charge calls that college and pros have. Kids are being taught how to flop instead of play defense and referees seem to be rewarding them for it. Also, a safety issue when kids are trying to draw a charge under the basket and in some cases darn near out of bounds. It would make it easier for refs too as inside the arc it is a block. I do not think an offensive player should be penalized because he beats his defender but another defender slides over and draws a charge in this area right under the hoop.
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  #21  
Old 05-01-19, 01:29 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I had no clue this is how officials get scheduled in high school. Makes the all-out rugby and wrestling games you see in the GCL make sense. The coaches are requesting refs that allow this type of play, and the refs will keep calling it this way to ensure they get the games. I was wondering why the same faces are always showing up at these games.

I think it does a huge disservice to the players.
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  #22  
Old 05-01-19, 01:36 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. Swish View Post
Biggest issue with high school game right now is not lack of shot clock or 3 point line. It is the grabbing, pushing and rugby stuff that refs allow that takes the skill out of the game. First thing I would do is put in the restricted line inside the key for block/charge calls that college and pros have. Kids are being taught how to flop instead of play defense and referees seem to be rewarding them for it. Also, a safety issue when kids are trying to draw a charge under the basket and in some cases darn near out of bounds. It would make it easier for refs too as inside the arc it is a block. I do not think an offensive player should be penalized because he beats his defender but another defender slides over and draws a charge in this area right under the hoop.
The RA has nothing to do with safety at the higher levels (though that may be a pretext). It has everything to do with more scoring. The NFHS doesn't care about that (nor should it).

Out of control ball handlers shouldn't be rewarded for barreling over legal defenders anywhere on the court. The best way referees can stop "unsafe" collisions is to call charges accurately so ball handlers pull up or pass it off. Offense-initiated contact shouldn't be rewarded with a block (and the NCAA has made this a point of emphasis).

A ball handler should expect to be guarded. Help defense shouldn't be penalized.

Another solution without a problem.
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  #23  
Old 05-01-19, 01:39 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I had no clue this is how officials get scheduled in high school. Makes the all-out rugby and wrestling games you see in the GCL make sense. The coaches are requesting refs that allow this type of play, and the refs will keep calling it this way to ensure they get the games. I was wondering why the same faces are always showing up at these games.

I think it does a huge disservice to the players.
The irony is that these coaches always preach about "getting kids ready for the next level." Well guess what, at the college level officials are explicitly instructed to clamp down on excessive physicality in the post and on the perimeter.
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  #24  
Old 05-01-19, 02:28 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
The RA has nothing to do with safety at the higher levels (though that may be a pretext). It has everything to do with more scoring. The NFHS doesn't care about that (nor should it).

Out of control ball handlers shouldn't be rewarded for barreling over legal defenders anywhere on the court. The best way referees can stop "unsafe" collisions is to call charges accurately so ball handlers pull up or pass it off. Offense-initiated contact shouldn't be rewarded with a block (and the NCAA has made this a point of emphasis).

A ball handler should expect to be guarded. Help defense shouldn't be penalized.

Another solution without a problem.

I would guess 75% of charges called by HS refs are actually blocking fouls. I think the charge is way over-called.
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  #25  
Old 05-01-19, 02:36 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
I would guess 75% of charges called by HS refs are actually blocking fouls. I think the charge is way over-called.
And you would be wrong. If anything, a block is the "default" call too many times. In recent years high school and college officials have been implored to not penalize defenders who do nothing wrong. If charges are over-called, then it's on the NFHS to make a rule change.

A defender only has to do two things to be legal initially: two feet down, torso facing the opponent. After this the only thing he cannot do is move toward the opponent to create contact (and he must be legal before a shooter/ball handler goes airborne). There is no requirement to be "set" to draw a player control foul and no required time or distance you have to give to an opponent with the ball.

Again, a player with the ball should expect to be guarded. It's on him to avoid contact with legal defenders.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-19, 02:49 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
And you would be wrong. If anything, a block is the "default" call too many times. In recent years high school and college officials have been implored to not penalize defenders who do nothing wrong. If charges are over-called, then it's on the NFHS to make a rule change.

A defender only has to do two things to be legal initially: two feet down, torso facing the opponent. After this the only thing he cannot do is move toward the opponent to create contact (and he must be legal before a shooter/ball handler goes airborne). There is no requirement to be "set" to draw a player control foul and no required time or distance you have to give to an opponent with the ball.

Again, a player with the ball should expect to be guarded. It's on him to avoid contact with legal defenders.
More times then not when I replay block/charge calls on film in slo-no defenders are either sliding laterally under the ball handler or as you said sliding forward under the ball handler. And yes I realize they are bang bang calls.

Why does torso have to be facing the opponent? What if I’m just standing there sideways not moving at all and you just barrel me over as you are dribbling? Wouldn’t that be an offensive foul as well?
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  #27  
Old 05-01-19, 03:39 PM
DonJuanDeMarco DonJuanDeMarco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post

A ball handler should expect to be guarded. Help defense shouldn't be penalized.
You are correct. Help defense shouldn't be penalized. Standing straight up and letting someone run into is not playing defense. Eliminate the secondary defender charge.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-19, 11:55 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
More times then not when I replay block/charge calls on film in slo-no defenders are either sliding laterally under the ball handler or as you said sliding forward under the ball handler. And yes I realize they are bang bang calls.

Why does torso have to be facing the opponent? What if I’m just standing there sideways not moving at all and you just barrel me over as you are dribbling? Wouldn’t that be an offensive foul as well?
Yes, I was referring specifically to the rules of guarding and legal guarding position.

Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor as long as that spot is obtained without illegal contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJuanDeMarco View Post
You are correct. Help defense shouldn't be penalized. Standing straight up and letting someone run into is not playing defense. Eliminate the secondary defender charge.
Or the ball handler can pull up or pass the ball off. Why should the defender have to get out of the way?
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  #29  
Old 05-03-19, 10:08 AM
chuckmeister chuckmeister is offline
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I honestly would like to see a change of the three point line in High School and College. They should move both to the Pro Three-line and make it uniform. Just a thought.
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  #30  
Old 05-03-19, 11:44 AM
1 time 1 time is offline
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They all should all be pushed back 6-8 inches. Jacking up 3 s the whole game when many can’t shoot it now. Let’s get back to teaching skills like passing dribbling cutting screening. So easy to guard many players today. Many can’t do anything but shoot the wide open 3 and that gets taken away by good defense. Now those players have nothing else to offer. Love the 3 point shot but it’s out of control and sometimes hard to watch when teams go 2 for 20 or 6 for 30.
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