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View Poll Results: Which of these most closely describes your religious practice currently
Mainline Protestant regular church-goer (Episc., Mehthodist, etc.) 4 7.27%
Mainline Protestant by background, infrequent church-goer 8 14.55%
Evangelical regular church-goer 3 5.45%
Evangelical by background, infrequent church-goer 2 3.64%
Catholic regular church-goer 19 34.55%
Catholic by background, infrequent church-goer 12 21.82%
Jewish 2 3.64%
Muslim 3 5.45%
Other Religion 2 3.64%
Agnostic (who knows?) 13 23.64%
Atheist (there is no God/Supreme being) 3 5.45%
Other 4 7.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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  #421  
Old 03-20-17, 05:55 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
IMHO God, Allah and Jehovah are all the same entity.
I tend to believe that there is one God for all of us, always thought people saying only there way is right was asinine.
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  #422  
Old 03-20-17, 05:56 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Strange. I don't believe that at all. I didn't realize that I had said that.
Fairly certain I never said you do, but it has been said in this thread and is believed by quite a few, yet somehow the fact that I pull the best aspects together from multiple religions makes me the one blowing smoke
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  #423  
Old 03-20-17, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
IMHO God, Allah and Jehovah are all the same entity.
Similar and from a similar history (Abraham's god), but with some big distinctions.

The Christian god is a Trinity of the Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Ghost...Jesus is divine (god). Islam (with Allah as their god), does not recognize the Trinity or Jesus as divine, but merely a prophet. The Jewish (with their god Yahweh) don't recognize Jesus as divine or as the Messiah or Savior...the Jewish are still waiting for the "true" Messiah.

Christianity is the only one of the three that believe Jesus is god. All three faiths have their own versions of sacred text.
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  #424  
Old 03-20-17, 06:08 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Similar and from a similar history (Abraham's god), but with some big distinctions.

The Christian god is a Trinity of the Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Ghost...Jesus is divine (god). Islam (with Allah as their god), does not recognize the Trinity or Jesus as divine, but merely a prophet. The Jewish (with their god Yahweh) don't recognize Jesus as divine or as the Messiah or Savior...the Jewish are still waiting for the "true" Messiah. Christianity is the only one of the three that believe Jesus is god.
For the record, I believe Muslims don't view Jesus in the same light as most Christians, but they do view him as Messiah. Even without that, if God is an all-knowing entity, I have a hard time fathoming that entity thinking that every one is going to find their answer in the same way. Heck, just looking at Christianity, there were 4 different NT authors meant to speak to different groups of people.
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  #425  
Old 03-20-17, 07:49 PM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
IMHO God, Allah and Jehovah are all the same entity.
Do you think God wants his kids looping off others heads? Or just killing non believers?
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  #426  
Old 03-20-17, 08:52 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Do you think God wants his kids looping off others heads? Or just killing non believers?
I think TD means that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the God of Abraham.

In all honesty, if one looks at the book of Revelation and the stuff about a false prophet and an anti-Christ, Islam could check quite a few boxes - including the head-chopping for a refusal to convert.

Google - images;"historical Christian population in Middle East" and the maps will look more monochromatic lately.......just sayin'.... There has been something of a purge going on, with little reporting.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 03-20-17 at 09:03 PM.
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  #427  
Old 03-20-17, 08:59 PM
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I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic grade school and high school. For the most part I think Catholicism has an excellent base message but I became disillusioned by much of what I saw in the church hierarchy. I reached a decision for me a long time ago that there is a higher being but all of these religions are man made ways to attempt to interpret how we are supposed to see and understand the higher being. Unfortunately, throughout history leadership in religions have become power hungry and seem to distort the real messages of peace and love to fit their own power hungry desires. It's interesting to note that in every religious book there is a version of the Golden Rule(basically treat others as you'd have them treat you). Unfortunately most religious leaders don't live by that rule and forget to re-enforce it.
Missionary work I've always found to be a real dichotomy. Is it really about helping less fortunate and less advanced people or is it really about increasing the number of believers in your way of worshiping God? Which in the end would increase your religion's powerbase. This is just one issue I have regarding religion. I used to drive the nuns crazy because I was always questioning the whole concept of predisposition. I guess this is one area I just never got the full faith because I never could agree that it was anyone's choice if God already knew what you were going to do.
The people that I've met who truly seem spiritual are what I call "New Age". I'm not even sure if that is the proper term still, but people I've met in this type of environment seem to be truly filled with love and peace.
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  #428  
Old 03-20-17, 09:17 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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"Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"

That's either true or its not. Time will tell.
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  #429  
Old 03-20-17, 09:33 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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I read a fair amount on this thread about the views of people on how Christians should relate to/understand/worship God. I read very little (from those same people) on how God wants these Christians to relate to their fellow man.
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  #430  
Old 03-20-17, 11:31 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"

That's either true or its not. Time will tell.
If you look at what Jesus really said, "just plain teacher and generally nice guy" is not an option in our consideration of just who he was. He was either God in the flesh, assuming human form to fulfill His original covenant with man as the perfect and final sacrifice of atonement for mankind's sins, or he was a crazy person. Those are the only two options, if one understands what he said. No middle ground.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 03-21-17 at 08:12 AM.
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  #431  
Old 03-20-17, 11:34 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
I read a fair amount on this thread about the views of people on how Christians should relate to/understand/worship God. I read very little (from those same people) on how God wants these Christians to relate to their fellow man.
You already said it, basically.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself. I fall far short of the mark, myself.
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  #432  
Old 03-21-17, 06:39 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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I am not saying I don't believe in a God or higher power. I just don't believe in the Bible or Koran or any religious manual. Each person just needs to find their own spirituality and they will find themselves. Church isn't the place to find it....for me. Maybe it is for others.
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  #433  
Old 03-21-17, 07:01 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I am not saying I don't believe in a God or higher power. I just don't believe in the Bible or Koran or any religious manual. Each person just needs to find their own spirituality and they will find themselves. Church isn't the place to find it....for me. Maybe it is for others.
If I was your neighbor, I might leave this on the work bench in your garage.....

...well, if you hadn't burned it down, that is

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-...our/1102477665

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 03-21-17 at 08:08 AM.
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  #434  
Old 03-21-17, 09:26 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
You already said it, basically.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself. I fall far short of the mark, myself.
We all fail. It's baked into our nature.

What concerns me...people on these pages who profess a belief in Jesus and the Christian concepts of the divine, but who are likely to take a Social Darwinist approach to humanity...you read it on these pages all the time...if you are struggling in the world, that's on you...even harsher views than that. There are always going to be people who aren't making it, who don't have their $ h it together, who need to be helped. We don't have to agree on the form of the help, but followers of Jesus Christ need to be committed to trying to figure out HOW to help.
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  #435  
Old 03-21-17, 09:59 AM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
We all fail. ....
I can tell you've been around Catholicism. I think that was one piece that turned me off about the Catholic Mass. Rarely was there a sermon about celebrating life and being happy with Jesus Christ. It was always the beat down about how we are all sinners and must repent. Of course we are sinners we are not perfect. But constantly focusing on the bad and not good just didn't seem to be what God was about. In fact most die hard religious do seem to preach that doomsday attitude. I think before you get to your message about helping others one should rejoice in their belief of a holy power that is all good. In my mind religions tend to focus too much on evil and guilt.
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  #436  
Old 03-21-17, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I can tell you've been around Catholicism. I think that was one piece that turned me off about the Catholic Mass. Rarely was there a sermon about celebrating life and being happy with Jesus Christ. It was always the beat down about how we are all sinners and must repent. Of course we are sinners we are not perfect. But constantly focusing on the bad and not good just didn't seem to be what God was about. In fact most die hard religious do seem to preach that doomsday attitude. I think before you get to your message about helping others one should rejoice in their belief of a holy power that is all good. In my mind religions tend to focus too much on evil and guilt.
I don't know. I've always taken the "we are all sinners" stuff as a comfort...as in (quoting Animal House)..."hey, you f-ed up, you trusted us". We all screw up. Don't be too hard on yourself as a result. Work through it. Try to be better. And, tolerate the fact that everyone else screws up as well.

Your thoughts are fine...however, they sound like a justification to do nothing in this world, to try to figure out how to help those who need it. Love God AND love your neighbor as you love yourself. BOTH.
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  #437  
Old 03-21-17, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
I don't know. I've always taken the "we are all sinners" stuff as a comfort...as in (quoting Animal House)..."hey, you f-ed up, you trusted us". We all screw up. Don't be too hard on yourself as a result. Work through it. Try to be better. And, tolerate the fact that everyone else screws up as well.

Your thoughts are fine...however, they sound like a justification to do nothing in this world, to try to figure out how to help those who need it. Love God AND love your neighbor as you love yourself. BOTH.
I think your comment in bold is a bit presumptuous. You say "my thoughts are fine" but then you come back with the a slam like that. To me that's exactly what's wrong with religions. As long as someone is doing good by someone who cares what justification there is. I also think if you haven't found happiness and peace in yourself it's going to pretty difficult to extend help to others.

You obviously have a take on religion as being the avenue to help one another but just like organized religion if someone has a truly different path to take to reach true spirituality you want to throw comments like the one above at someone because their view doesn't exactly fit yours.

Everyone has a calling in this world. Some are called to be helpful to others while others are called to do evil to others. You just hope that the call to good and peaceful wins out in most of us. How they show they reach goodness and peace is all about the individual and how they find the best way for them to express it.

Who's to say your message of reaching out is the one and only way to get in touch with God and spirituality?
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  #438  
Old 03-21-17, 12:34 PM
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...perhaps

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  #439  
Old 03-21-17, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Who's to say your message of reaching out is the one and only way to get in touch with God and spirituality?
Your beliefs are whatever they are. That's "fine".

But I am sure that Christianity REQUIRES you to "love your neighbor as you love yourself". You need to try to figure out HOW to help your neighbor and then do it. If you don't want to do that, I think you're not following the teaching of Jesus Christ, who called it the "greatest commandment".
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  #440  
Old 03-21-17, 07:05 PM
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The only people Jesus openly rebuked are religious, self-righteous people who put rules, regulations and judgments on others but reserve a lot of mercy and rationale for their own practices. Jesus accepted blue-collar thieves, prostitutes, white collar criminals, social and physical lepers and doubters.

BTW - the agnostics and atheists have created their own set of beliefs and doctrines that they adhere to and hope that others would as well. Religious and self-sufficient, self-righteous judgments are not reserved for those who sit in pews on Sunday.
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  #441  
Old 03-21-17, 07:18 PM
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Your beliefs are whatever they are. That's "fine".

But I am sure that Christianity REQUIRES you to "love your neighbor as you love yourself". You need to try to figure out HOW to help your neighbor and then do it. If you don't want to do that, I think you're not following the teaching of Jesus Christ, who called it the "greatest commandment".
What if you don't like yourself? You know like people putting tats on their body to make them feel better about themselves.
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  #442  
Old 03-21-17, 07:30 PM
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What if you don't like yourself? You know like people putting tats on their body to make them feel better about themselves.
Well, it starts with learning to love yourself, of course. The Greatest Commandment is not the same thing as The Golden Rule.
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  #443  
Old 03-21-17, 08:35 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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What if you don't like yourself? You know like people putting tats on their body to make them feel better about themselves.
The "self-love" that is so prevalent a part of establishing self-esteem in modern pop psychology runs counter to traditional Christian values. It is tantamount to narcissism, really. Christianity is more about self-acceptance. The individual that does not like himself should know that we are all flawed, but that even if that person was the only one that would ever believe in the Gospel, Jesus would have died for his sins alone as I understand it. If the Son of God accepts you where you are, then you should accept yourself. Personal change and improvement then comes from gratitude, not to try and "earn" one's salvation.
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  #444  
Old 03-21-17, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
The only people Jesus openly rebuked are religious, self-righteous people who put rules, regulations and judgments on others but reserve a lot of mercy and rationale for their own practices. Jesus accepted blue-collar thieves, prostitutes, white collar criminals, social and physical lepers and doubters.

BTW - the agnostics and atheists have created their own set of beliefs and doctrines that they adhere to and hope that others would as well. Religious and self-sufficient, self-righteous judgments are not reserved for those who sit in pews on Sunday.
So true.
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  #445  
Old 03-21-17, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
The "self-love" that is so prevalent a part of establishing self-esteem in modern pop psychology runs counter to traditional Christian values. It is tantamount to narcissism, really. Christianity is more about self-acceptance. The individual that does not like himself should know that we are all flawed, but that even if that person was the only one that would ever believe in the Gospel, Jesus would have died for his sins alone as I understand it. If the Son of God accepts you where you are, then you should accept yourself. Personal change and improvement then comes from gratitude, not to try and "earn" one's salvation.
I was asking for a friend. Tyler Durden.
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  #446  
Old 03-21-17, 10:02 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
IMHO God, Allah and Jehovah are all the same entity.
That is, there is only one God? And thus, it is our individual interpretations of God that are incorrect, right?

I can't help but think about the (growing) vastness of our universe when I say this: Maybe, we - being fallible as we are - have only an inkling of God's greatness.

Last edited by EagleGuy; 03-21-17 at 11:26 PM.
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  #447  
Old 03-21-17, 11:18 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I was asking for a friend. Tyler Durden.
I know. His self-loathing is quite evident.
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  #448  
Old 03-22-17, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
...
BTW - the agnostics and atheists have created their own set of beliefs and doctrines that they adhere to and hope that others would as well. Religious and self-sufficient, self-righteous judgments are not reserved for those who sit in pews on Sunday.
This is a valid statement. It's probably something deep down in human nature that forces religious and non-religious to try justify how they feel.

I feel in my experience I've seen it more in the extremes of atheism and being very religious. Atheist tend to make fun of religious people as fools while religious are always trying to condemn non believers.

Another battle I used to have with nuns was when they used to tell us if you weren't Catholic then you wouldn't go to Heaven. I was always challenging them on that one. I give them credit for sticking to their faith but I just agreed to disagree.
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  #449  
Old 03-22-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Another battle I used to have with nuns was when they used to tell us if you weren't Catholic then you wouldn't go to Heaven. I was always challenging them on that one. I give them credit for sticking to their faith but I just agreed to disagree.
That hasn't been the position of the Church since Vatican II (early 60's). I'm not disputing your story. Either you're pretty old, or the nuns didn't get the memo.
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  #450  
Old 03-22-17, 08:54 AM
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I am Catholic. Grew up in a little German town in western Ohio. Moved to Columbus after High school and kind of fell away from the Church. My wife and I came back to the Church about 8-10 years ago, and I thank God everyday that we did. I could read off a resume of the things we do for our church, but there is no point. The important thing is God knows I love Him, Know Him and Serve Him. and I am not perfect, but striving to be in Heaven one day.

I go to church for multiple reasons, the major being the Eucharist. But for other Christians, I would believe Church would be an important part of being a Christian so as to surround yourself with like minded people that you can learn to trust and turn to when in need. I would not turn to an atheist, for his guidance may work for him, but would not for me as we would have different ways of looking at the end goal of life.

My thought on people that have turned from Christianity is that instead of asking or seeking the answers to their unasked questions, they just give up. Why seek someone who might be able to answer, or a book that may help you tackle the questions you have. When we didn't understand Science in school, we were forced to read it again and again until we understood it. Religion is not looked upon in this light. It doesn't help us earn more money, so why bother? But in the end, I believe this is all that should matter.

Those are some of my thoughts on this thread. I have more, but I just wanted to touch on a couple of items as a forum will never get the full point across.
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