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  #1  
Old 09-09-18, 10:09 AM
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What Did You See on Weekend #3

With some bigger meets taking place and with more teams traveling beyond their traditional regional boundaries to create some interesting head-to-head competition, what did you see on weekend #3 that intrigued you? Which meet did you attend?

I took in (Massillon) Jackson's David Ziesmer Invitational. It wasn't one of the larger meets on Saturday's schedule, but it was plenty competitive with solid teams and some outstanding individual runners.

With its later start times for the HS races and given that the HS serves as a testing center, the meet is very accommodating for runners who are taking the ACT on this particular Saturday. We can idealize it all we want about not taking the ACT during the season, but there are plenty of seniors out there every year who might be in need of a higher score before the early application period begins at the school of their choice. That situation isn't changing anytime soon.

Despite the wet conditions, race management did a fine job of keeping the course race-able for everyone who was prepared for the conditions. They put down mulch and drying agent in the most heavily trafficked areas.

For its size, the meet had some very good individual talent on display. Lake's Nathan Moore won HS boys in 15:57 with 3 more guys under 16:15. The winning time in boys MS was 10:22 (it was a 2-mile course). The top 2 HS girls broke 19:00, and the top 2 MS girls broke 12:00.

The meet is growing a little more each year and with good reason. Jackson does everything it can to put on a good meet. It's a relatively flat and fast layout by NE Ohio standards, they have plenty of room for team camps, they hand out the individual medals in the chute and quickly instruct the top 12 finishers to the awards deck, which is a replica of the one in Terre Haute, IN, where they take a group picture. Team results were also announced shortly after each race with pictures taken on the awards deck.

Jackson offers a separate scoring for the small school competition but could use a few more teams to improve its depth. It is a challenging weekend to host a meet with the ACT plus established meets like Tiffin pulling a large number of teams out of NE Ohio. More locally, there's Dover to the south, Wooster to the west, and Walsh Jesuit to the north. Additionally, the University of Akron added a HS race to its annual Tommy Evans Collegiate Invitational now held at Silver Creek Metropark. That course now hosts the Suburban League Super Duals and League Meet, and it will host the All-Ohio Collegiate XC Meet in 3 weeks.
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  #2  
Old 09-09-18, 11:32 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Tiffin turned into a muddy mess by the end of the meet. If there is any rain the couple days before regionals it will quickly turn back into one for that race.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-18, 11:45 AM
Qualifer17 Qualifer17 is offline
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I was at McGowan. Insanely Muddy Course. By the Time D3 ran, following all of the MS races, the course was either a flowing river or a stretch of heavy mud. Still very good races.

D1 Boys times really couldn’t be salvaged after the beating the course took over the course of the day. Tonkovich and Cook went head to head, both running a 17:29.6. Good race considering the conditions. Would’ve been interesting if they ran against the D2 Boys.

Speaking of, the D2 Boys Race was interesting. Four intriguing teams at the Top and a solid duel at the front for the win. Wilke of Sheridan would win by 1.4s over JA’s Frick. #9 Heath beat #4 Unioto by 10, #13 Alder by 14, and #6 Sheridan by 29.

Columbus Academy ran the table in D3, winning by 42 Points.

In D1, Liberty Gracie Spankle won, by 50s. Liberty pulled off the win scoring only 46 points. Dominant performance.

Interesting Day in D2 Girls. #7 Alder Girls beat #19 Bexley. Alder’s Davis won the meet by a fair margin, beating Shawnee’s Audrey DeSantis.

In D3, Centerburg dominated. Annalise Grammel won running a 20:31. Solid Race. This is really when the course started to get beat up.

If there were any questions about the course, all you gotta do is look at the D1 Results. Cook and Tonkovich are among the State’s best and they barley ran sub 17:30. The course had to of been “fun” but definitely wasn’t a PR course in 2018.
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Old 09-09-18, 12:19 PM
galesxc galesxc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualifer17 View Post
I was at McGowan. Insanely Muddy Course. By the Time D3 ran, following all of the MS races, the course was either a flowing river or a stretch of heavy mud. Still very good races.

D1 Boys times really couldn’t be salvaged after the beating the course took over the course of the day. Tonkovich and Cook went head to head, both running a 17:29.6. Good race considering the conditions. Would’ve been interesting if they ran against the D2 Boys.

Speaking of, the D2 Boys Race was interesting. Four intriguing teams at the Top and a solid duel at the front for the win. Wilke of Sheridan would win by 1.4s over JA’s Frick. #9 Heath beat #4 Unioto by 10, #13 Alder by 14, and #6 Sheridan by 29.

Columbus Academy ran the table in D3, winning by 42 Points.

In D1, Liberty Gracie Spankle won, by 50s. Liberty pulled off the win scoring only 46 points. Dominant performance.

Interesting Day in D2 Girls. #7 Alder Girls beat #19 Bexley. Alder’s Davis won the meet by a fair margin, beating Shawnee’s Audrey DeSantis.

In D3, Centerburg dominated. Annalise Grammel won running a 20:31. Solid Race. This is really when the course started to get beat up.

If there were any questions about the course, all you gotta do is look at the D1 Results. Cook and Tonkovich are among the State’s best and they barley ran sub 17:30. The course had to of been “fun” but definitely wasn’t a PR course in 2018.
Good description... "Insanely muddy" and "Fun"!

I took a stab at quantifying the impact of the conditions, although I recognize some guys will be impacted more than others. The conditions favored older, stronger runners over "rhythm" types or younger, smaller guys.

Anyway, guys in the 3:00PM race averaged about 6% slower than their season bests; 4:00PM guys averaged 8% slower and 5:00 guys averaged 9.5% slower. It was comforting that the stats supported the observation that the course was getting worse throughout the day.

Performances also depended on how you approached the race... those how embraced the conditions and thought their way around the course fared better than those who were tentative or focused on times which weren't going to happen on this day.
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Old 09-09-18, 01:43 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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We went to the Pat Richie Walsh Meet. It was rainy and muddy. Sorry I didn't stick around for the D1 race. My thoughts on D2-3

Girls

Howland what a squad. They are a very good top of the middle pack running team. I see their two top finishing top 15 in the D2 regional And they have no glaring weaknesses like most of the other Biatdman D2 teams.

Hawken the preseason D2 favorite Dont sleep on them. Gilson could very well be this years state Champion (strong fast and powerful.) Also they are know using there schools most powerful asset. Their national caliber swimming program. Utilizing several new swimmers look for them to be back in the mix for team titles by late October.

Gilmour ran short handed (test taking Katie Engle) the Lancers still managed to beat Regional rivals Maplewood and McDonald.

Maplewood with no real firepower up front. They still look like a top 2 team in the region

McDonald Anna Gurra still shows she's an outstanding all around runner. Their veterans dont seem to have the same take it to you they have had the previous two years

Boyd D2-3. This is the first show down of 5 races between two of the top D3 programs in the area Gilmour and McDonald.

Gilmour put 4 runners in the top 8 and 5 in the top 20 for the win.
Salem on the first loop threatened to spoil the party. With a great one two in Hunter and Trey and their three four runners in the top ten. They fell off a little on the second loop. I heard some coaches talking about Salem winning the regional. I'm sure Coach Howard and Coach Lancuanese will have something to say about that. McDonald seems to be coming alive They just need to get healthy.
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Old 09-09-18, 01:45 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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The course at Mason was really in pretty good shape all things considered. The mulch hill and the creek definitely slowed things down, but all in all it doesn’t seem like it was anywhere near as slow as Watkins. Though they have about the reverse schedule as McGowan, with the varsity races Early and ending with younger kids.

For results this week I always go through and look at who had one or two kids missing from their varsity races, because ACTs make team race results from this week not great predictors.
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  #7  
Old 09-09-18, 03:19 PM
CCFREAK CCFREAK is offline
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Was at Tiffin watching the D3 races. Minster ladies are nothing short of amazing. Ft. Loramie and West Liberty girls will be fun to watch in the Troy Region this year as they went 2 and 3 yesterday.

Mt. Gilead boys are legit with their top 4 sub 17 on a wet course. Columbus Grove finished 2nd is better than I thought and West Liberty-Salem boys who were unranked finished 3rd in a deep field?

Drew Roberts from Mapelton won the D3 boys race in 15:54.2
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  #8  
Old 09-09-18, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvctrackfan View Post
We went to the Pat Richie Walsh Meet. It was rainy and muddy. Sorry I didn't stick around for the D1 race. My thoughts on D2-3

Girls

Howland what a squad. They are a very good top of the middle pack running team. I see their two top finishing top 15 in the D2 regional And they have no glaring weaknesses like most of the other Biatdman D2 teams.

Hawken the preseason D2 favorite Dont sleep on them. Gilson could very well be this years state Champion (strong fast and powerful.) Also they are know using there schools most powerful asset. Their national caliber swimming program. Utilizing several new swimmers look for them to be back in the mix for team titles by late October.

Gilmour ran short handed (test taking Katie Engle) the Lancers still managed to beat Regional rivals Maplewood and McDonald.

Maplewood with no real firepower up front. They still look like a top 2 team in the region

McDonald Anna Gurra still shows she's an outstanding all around runner. Their veterans dont seem to have the same take it to you they have had the previous two years

Boyd D2-3. This is the first show down of 5 races between two of the top D3 programs in the area Gilmour and McDonald.

Gilmour put 4 runners in the top 8 and 5 in the top 20 for the win.
Salem on the first loop threatened to spoil the party. With a great one two in Hunter and Trey and their three four runners in the top ten. They fell off a little on the second loop. I heard some coaches talking about Salem winning the regional. I'm sure Coach Howard and Coach Lancuanese will have something to say about that. McDonald seems to be coming alive They just need to get healthy.
I know from repeated firsthand experience how bad WJ's course can be in wet conditions. The Older configurations offered some nasty spots: the path that took you from the south side of the school down to the soccer fields flooded easily, the hairpin turn at the top of the hill by the softball field was always an adventure (no longer part of the course), and the finish line area was always a mudpit. Even so, I miss going to WJ for both the Ritchie (formerly the Tomahawk Run) and the Warrior Classic (the JV meet the Mon. after districts). My buddies were there for the DI races. All they said was that it was very muddy and soggy for the boys varsity race which was the 12th and final race of the day. Their kids yielded an average of about 45 seconds a guy vs. last week which was a similar layout but hotter and more humid. Yesterday's race temperatures were very good, and the rain didn't seem like it ever got to heavy to be much of a problem where I was.

Salem has some nice frontrunners, but I don't think they can beat a full strength squad from St. V, Woodridge, or even Bay for that matter.

It's always hard to figure McDonald out. They're constantly running different varsity lineups. All I know is whatever they do usually works for them because they're always a factor at the regional and state meets. I never count them out of anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if the top 3 DIII girls teams at WJ are the 3 that get the state berths out of the NE in late October. Lutheran West could be a factor, but they have a considerable 5 problem. Badger has an even larger 5 problem. East Canton needs to get better at all 5 spots; especially up front, and Canton CC needs to get all their pieces together and healthy. A lot of flawed DIII girls teams in NEO right now.
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Old 09-09-18, 11:04 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Coventry boys won its first invitational yesterday in the hills of Dover. It was a slower course; hilly and muddy. In addition, the gap between our 1 and 5 runner was only 90 seconds, so we are making progress.

The invitational itself wasn't particularly competitive. The best teams there were Tuslaw, which is a shadow of what it was two years ago. Add Harrison Central, as well as Canton Central Catholic. But the Comets fought through the rain, the hills, and the mud, and pulled out the dub.

The Coventry boys team itself is having an interesting season. They graduated their ace from last year. However, some of our other runners, have been trying to step up their game, in their bid to qualify to regionals for the 4th year straight. To accomplish this end, 3 of our top 5 runners were averaging 40 miles a week through the summer, and a couple of these guys were not running slower then a 6:30 pace. So far though, this has lead to mixed results. The comets have underperformed at Salem, and to a lesser extent at Hoover. However, we looked better this week, and hopefully we can run more to what our team should be capable of given their summer mileage base.

In terms of numbers, our boys program has taken a nice shot in the arm. 15-17 boys on the high school team. And 18 boys on the middle school roster, means that we have grown. Unfortunately, our girls program will still struggle to maintain a team this year. I honestly have no idea what we can do to improve our girls team. Because all the athletic girls at Coventry, and there aren't many, all want to play volleyball. XC is just a tough sell for them. So idk. Any ideas?

Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 09-09-18 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 09-10-18, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
Coventry boys won its first invitational yesterday in the hills of Dover. It was a slower course; hilly and muddy. In addition, the gap between our 1 and 5 runner was only 90 seconds, so we are making progress.

The invitational itself wasn't particularly competitive. The best teams there were Tuslaw, which is a shadow of what it was two years ago. Add Harrison Central, as well as Canton Central Catholic. But the Comets fought through the rain, the hills, and the mud, and pulled out the dub.

The Coventry boys team itself is having an interesting season. They graduated their ace from last year. However, some of our other runners, have been trying to step up their game, in their bid to qualify to regionals for the 4th year straight. To accomplish this end, 3 of our top 5 runners were averaging 40 miles a week through the summer, and a couple of these guys were not running slower then a 6:30 pace. So far though, this has lead to mixed results. The comets have underperformed at Salem, and to a lesser extent at Hoover. However, we looked better this week, and hopefully we can run more to what our team should be capable of given their summer mileage base.

In terms of numbers, our boys program has taken a nice shot in the arm. 15-17 boys on the high school team. And 18 boys on the middle school roster, means that we have grown. Unfortunately, our girls program will still struggle to maintain a team this year. I honestly have no idea what we can do to improve our girls team. Because all the athletic girls at Coventry, and there aren't many, all want to play volleyball. XC is just a tough sell for them. So idk. Any ideas?
You can only race the other people on the course, but FWIW, Tuslaw's top 2 guys didn't race on Saturday. Both are seniors, so I'll assume they were taking the ACT. Based on what I saw of them on Tuesday afternoon at Smithville in the extreme heat (17:09 and 17:39 for 1st and 4th place, respectively), they would likely have finished 1-2 overall at Dover to give the Mustangs an easy win.

As for your Lady Comets, unless you get a bunch of somewhat athletic girls who aren't happy with the fall sports they currently play to come run XC, you have to build it at the middle school level and wait a few years for those kids to start cycling through high school. You're not likely ever going to have the luxury of letting the cream rise to the top from a team of 30+ girls. At a smaller school, if your MS program can produce 1 or 2 decent runners a year and have 1 more in each HS grade continue to develop as they move through HS, that gives you 2-3 decent runners in each HS grade by the time the oldest kids cycle through, or 8-12 decent kids in your entire HS program. You can have a competitive HS program with those numbers once those kids start to fill all 4 grades at the HS level. If and when a "dream class" comes through, that's when you can really swing for the fences. Tuslaw and Louisville have done a good job of this over the last 10-15 years. Their MS programs generally give them 1 to 2 kids each year who can contribute early in their HS careers. In years when they get more than 2, they've been able to find even greater postseason success (see Louisville's DI state title in '09 and their great teams with the Chaplik twins, and see Tuslaw's DII state trips from '15 and '16). In the meantime, how's the girls soccer team? Any chance of getting some of them to split time and help out the XC team?

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 09-10-18 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 09-10-18, 01:05 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
You can only race the other people on the course, but FWIW, Tuslaw's top 2 guys didn't race on Saturday. Both are seniors, so I'll assume they were taking the ACT. Based on what I saw of them on Tuesday afternoon at Smithville in the extreme heat (17:09 and 17:39 for 1st and 4th place, respectively), they would likely have finished 1-2 overall at Dover to give the Mustangs an easy win.

As for your Lady Comets, unless you get a bunch of somewhat athletic girls who aren't happy with the fall sports they currently play to come run XC, you have to build it at the middle school level and wait a few years for those kids to start cycling through high school. You're not likely ever going to have the luxury of letting the cream rise to the top from a team of 30+ girls. At a smaller school, if your MS program can produce 1 or 2 decent runners a year and have 1 more in each grad continue to develop as they move through HS, that gives you 2-3 decent runners in each HS grade by the time the oldest kids cycle through, or 8-12 decent kids in your entire HS program. You can have a competitive HS program with those numbers once those kids start to fill all 4 grades at the HS level. If and when a "dream class" comes through, that's when you can really swing for the fences. Tuslaw and Louisville have done a good job of this over the last 10-15 years. Their MS programs generally give them 1 to 2 kids each year who can contribute at the HS level. In years when they get more than 2, they've been able to find even greater postseason success (see Louisville's DI state title in '09 and their great teams with the Chaplik twins, and see Tuslaw's DII state trips from '15 and '16). In the meantime, how's the girls soccer team? Any chance of getting some of them to split time and help out the XC team?
Soccer is difficult, Girls soccer coach is stingy. The girls soccer team historically has done pretty good, but has struggled this season. However Coventry has a well developed youth program for both its boys and girls soccer; indeed the boys soccer team hasn't posted a losing record in quite a few years. The problem with that, is that by the time these girls get into 7th grade, they've been playing soccer since they were 4, 5? It is exceedingly difficult at that point to pull them away from soccer into doing another sport, even some of the time. Additionally, we do have a handful of middle school girls. However, I don't think even one of them has broken 20 minutes in the 2 mile yet, so nothing encouraging there.

The only solution I can think of for our girls team at this point would be getting Ashley Kaltwasser coaching the girls. She ran cross country for Coventry, was very successful, qualified to state her senior year, in 2006. She then placed 15 at state. She went on to compete in something called Olympiad, which I guess is some kind of body builders pageant? At any rate, she knows a thing or two about fitness, and success in cross country. And addition, maybe she could be like some kind of star power that could attract some more athletic girls to the team; who knows.

Or maybe I can somehow track down Chris Miloscia, the former coach of the 5 time state champion SVSM girls cross country team, and somehow convince him to coach again, to coach for Coventry. I know, incredibly long odds, like this boys team is getting to state before that happens. But maybe he could fix our girls team. If he could succeed here, it would cement his status as goat of cross country coaches.

Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 09-10-18 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 09-10-18, 02:59 AM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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I, tried getting Chris to give me a hand. Hes pretty busy with his job and officiating you might have more luck considering he won't have to drive so far.
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Old 09-10-18, 10:55 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Coventry; Go get the non athletic kids. Get everyone you can. Tell you right now, Woodridge's CC teams are not going to win any basketball tournaments. ( I know that because a few years ago the girls basketball team was made up of a lot of CC kids. Not the best team we ever had.) Howard always says about the kids that are sort of slow, "They might be slow, but they probably have fast friends." There is always going to be that kid or kids that had no idea they were good runners. When I ran, our team was made up of basketball players, wrestlers and other real good athletes. It's changed a lot. Woodridge CC kids run now. They run and run and run. There are not a lot of kids that do other sports or at least that excel in other sports. Other than track and field.

Start recruiting by grade point average. Cannot tell you how many boys and girls at Woodridge are at the top of the class in GPA. A lot of speeches are made at graduation by CC kids.

Bottom line, is every kid that is not doing something else, should be on your CC team. Not every kids plays soccer or VB or football. There are plenty of kids left. You will see tomorrow that Woodridge will have more than a few kids at the back of the race. They aren't all naturals.
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