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  #1  
Old 09-02-18, 09:36 AM
Run4Him Run4Him is offline
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When is hot, too hot?!

Temps in central and southern Ohio are to reach 90’s this week during after school invitationals. When is it too hot to safely contest a meet?! Yes, athletes should hydrate all week throughout the school day, but coaches can’t be there to confirm this is occurring. What do coaches do in this situation with soaring temps at meet situations? Do you participate? What should the approach of meet managers and AD’s be?
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  #2  
Old 09-02-18, 10:23 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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All sports have a physical exam requirement before eligibility; is it the coaches responsibility to instruct proper hydration and how-to identify an overheating body?

Maybe just tell your AD to quit scheduling weekday invites, early in the season.
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  #3  
Old 09-02-18, 02:05 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Well, back in the day (1983), I competed at the TAC JO State meet at Lima, OH, along with hundreds of athletes that day. 95 degrees with almost the same humidity. I was out in it almost all day as a multi-event athlete, and while I was completely drained at the end of the day with plenty of red skin, two days later I competed in my first decathlon.

Proper hydration & using wetted towels to help conduct heat away from the body are important to avoiding problems. Everyone has to know their own bodies and take appropriate measures, but those temps are doable by most.
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Old 09-02-18, 02:14 PM
madman madman is offline
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The OP's question is an important one that deserves more than a scolding about how to properly schedule meets.

The general sports regulations from the OHSAA has guidelines that are below, but wholly inadequate. Georgia has had more deaths due to heat than most states and their athletic association has implemented guidelines based on Wet Bulb Globe Temperature. We would do well to follow similar guidelines. Remember that the temperature used in the table must be the temperature actually experienced in the activity - don't use the temperature in the shade unless that's where you are practicing.











==========================

OHSAA Guidelines from the General Regulations


This procedure is to be used until such time as the temperature is below 84 degrees as no combination of heat and humidity at that level will result in a need to curtail activity.

1. Thirty minutes prior to the start of activity, temperature and humidity readings should be taken at the site.
2. The temperature and humidity should be factored into the Heat Index Calculation and Chart and a determination made as to the Heat Index. If schools are utilizing a digital sling psychrometer that calculates the Heat Index, that number may be used to apply to the table.
3. If a reading is determined whereby activity is to be decreased (above 95 degrees Heat Index), then re-readings would be required every thirty minutes to determine if further activity should be eliminated or preventative steps taken, or if an increased level of activity can resume.
4. Using the following table, activity should be altered and/or eliminated based on this Heat Index as determined:

Under 95 degrees Heat Index—
• Optional water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes if temperature rises in order to monitor for increased Heat Index.

95 degrees to 99 degrees Heat Index—
• Water shall always be available and athletes shall be able to take in as much water as they desire.
• Mandatory water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow for hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Helmets and other equipment should be removed when athlete not directly involved with competition, drill or practice and it is not otherwise required by rule.
Notes: Reduce time of outside activity. Consider postponing practice to later in the day. Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes to monitor for increased Heat Index.

100 degrees (above 99 degrees) to 104 degrees Heat Index—
• Water shall always be available and athletes shall be able to take in as much water as they desire.
• Mandatory water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Alter uniform by removing items if possible and permissible by rules.
• Allow athletes to change to dry shirts and shorts at defined intervals.
• Reduce time of outside activity as well as indoor activity if air conditioning is unavailable.
• Postpone practice to later in day.
• If helmets or other protective requirement are required to be worn by rule or normal practice, suspend practice or competition immediately. Note: Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes to monitor for changes in Heat Index.

Above 104 degrees Heat Index—
• Stop all outside activity in practice and/or play, and stop all inside activity if air conditioning is unavailable.
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  #5  
Old 09-02-18, 03:34 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Ran a race at JohnBryan park 6 years ago. 101 degrees and heat index of 112
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  #6  
Old 09-02-18, 04:11 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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I don't have a good answer here.

Many programs rely on hosting an invitational as a source of funds, and there are only so many racing dates available each season that teams wouldn't view as an interruption to their practice schedule. Not everyone can host a weekend invitational, so weekday meets aren't going away. FWIW, hot weather is not exclusive to 4:30pm on a weekday. There are plenty of large meets that start early on Saturdays but last well into the afternoon.

It's almost impossible for kids to adequately hydrate or keep their fluid levels topped off during the school day. A trip to the drinking fountain between each class isn't going to cut it, and my school doesn't allow any food or drink outside the cafeteria, so carrying a water bottle is not a viable option. I doubt my school is alone in having that type of policy.

There's nothing illegal about setting up a water station on the XC course. 1 of the meets I attended last year set one up at a spot on the course where runners pass in both directions (just after the mile and shortly after the 2 mile). They had their MS team distributing the cups of water. Another meet last year on a very hot weekend (weekend #5) had people with pressurized canisters (like an exterminator would use) on the course where runners could veer off to the side and be sprayed if they wanted it. They were constantly having to refill those canisters, but it gave some suffering kids something to look forward to as they did yeoman's work of completing the race.

The greatest challenge is getting kids to accept the idea of knocking back their effort on hot days. Unless the coach can do a great sell job on the importance of racing more conservatively on a hot day, the kids will go at it like it's under 60 degrees out and put themselves at risk right from the gun.

I can only hope common sense prevails in each situation on meet day. If meet management is ill-equipped to ensure the safety of its participants, then cancel or postpone. It sure beats the opposite. Coaches of participating teams have to do their part, too.

For practice, look for shaded routes, or at least choose routes where you know runners will have access to water - parks and cemeteries come to mind.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 09-04-18 at 08:28 AM..
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  #7  
Old 09-03-18, 07:49 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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According to this chart we should cancel practice all week next week.

And the past two weeks we shouldn't have had practice.

Drink water and be smart.
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  #8  
Old 09-03-18, 08:26 PM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
According to this chart we should cancel practice all week next week.

And the past two weeks we shouldn't have had practice.

Drink water and be smart.
I don't think you're reading the chart correctly.

For instance, tomorrow in Columbus the temperature at 4 pm is expected to be 91 F with a relative humidity of 50% (dewpoint 70 F). This gives a WBGT temperature of 87.4, which is high but significantly below the limit for region 2 of 89.9

Based on this there should be a limit of 2 hours of training with at least four 4-minute breaks/hour or 10 minute breaks for every 30 minutes of continous work.

If you're going to try doing a hard workout, then the recommendation is no more than 30 minutes of work and 30 minutes of rest per hour with 1 quart of water consumed each hour.

None of this seems unreasonable to me.

Here is a website that calculates the WBGT for your location:

https://www.weather.gov/tsa/wbgt

==========================

Note that these guidelines don't address the athlete who shows up to practice already dehydrated, overweight, etc. We still need to use professional judgement to keep our athletes safe. There is no race that is so important that we need to put our athletes in a dangerous situation.
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  #9  
Old 09-04-18, 08:47 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post

Drink water and be smart.
While I agree about the need to drink water and to "be smart" when it is hot and athletes are sweating a lot, the matter is a lot more complicated than that. Heavy sweating causes a lot more than total body water to be lost through sweating. Electrolytes are also lost. Most notably, sodium is lost. If sweat is only replaced with water, the sodium in the body, in relation to water, becomes even less. Dilutional hyponatremia is the result. Hyponatremia comes about when the sodium concentration in the blood is less than 135 mmol/L. Severe hyponatremia comes about when that number gets close to 120 mmol/L. If only water is replaced, serum sodium becomes lower.

Hyponatremia is nothing to take lightly. Nausea and vomiting, headache, confusion, and fatigue can result. There have been instances of death that resulted from cerebral edema. This comes about because the amount of sodium in the fluid outside the cells will drop below normal and water will move into the cells to balance the levels.

It seems like every year we hear about a high school football player somewhere that dies during summer practices. It is often the result of dilutional hyponatremia. A few years ago I recall a triathlete that died because throughout the event, that was held in very high temperatures, he was replacing his fluid losses only with water. His serum sodium levels dropped to below 120 mmol/L.

In general, the duration of a XC race is not long enough to cause problems with an athlete unless he or she are going into the event a little deficient to begin with. Runners are more apt to have problems on long runs or long workouts during high temperatures. While many may view sports drinks to be a gimmick and merely a means for companies to make money, there is good science behind many of them. There are a lot of sports drinks on the market (Gatorade, Body Armor, Hoist, Nuun and others) and coaches would be wise to educate themselves on the differences among them and what the benefits of them are. Know the differences between hypertonic, hypotonic, and isotonic drinks. The timing of when the drinks are consumed is crucial also. Too big of a carbohydrate bolus just before a competition can lead to cramping during the competition. Educate yourselves.

Here's a good chart showing causes and symptoms of hyponatremia:

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  #10  
Old 09-04-18, 11:48 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
While I agree about the need to drink water and to "be smart" when it is hot and athletes are sweating a lot, the matter is a lot more complicated than that. Heavy sweating causes a lot more than total body water to be lost through sweating. Electrolytes are also lost. Most notably, sodium is lost. If sweat is only replaced with water, the sodium in the body, in relation to water, becomes even less. Dilutional hyponatremia is the result. Hyponatremia comes about when the sodium concentration in the blood is less than 135 mmol/L. Severe hyponatremia comes about when that number gets close to 120 mmol/L. If only water is replaced, serum sodium becomes lower.

Hyponatremia is nothing to take lightly. Nausea and vomiting, headache, confusion, and fatigue can result. There have been instances of death that resulted from cerebral edema. This comes about because the amount of sodium in the fluid outside the cells will drop below normal and water will move into the cells to balance the levels.

It seems like every year we hear about a high school football player somewhere that dies during summer practices. It is often the result of dilutional hyponatremia. A few years ago I recall a triathlete that died because throughout the event, that was held in very high temperatures, he was replacing his fluid losses only with water. His serum sodium levels dropped to below 120 mmol/L.

In general, the duration of a XC race is not long enough to cause problems with an athlete unless he or she are going into the event a little deficient to begin with. Runners are more apt to have problems on long runs or long workouts during high temperatures. While many may view sports drinks to be a gimmick and merely a means for companies to make money, there is good science behind many of them. There are a lot of sports drinks on the market (Gatorade, Body Armor, Hoist, Nuun and others) and coaches would be wise to educate themselves on the differences among them and what the benefits of them are. Know the differences between hypertonic, hypotonic, and isotonic drinks. The timing of when the drinks are consumed is crucial also. Too big of a carbohydrate bolus just before a competition can lead to cramping during the competition. Educate yourselves.

Here's a good chart showing causes and symptoms of hyponatremia:

Thank you Rohbino. Every year I have to deal with at least one or two (this year four and counting) parents who tell me "I would never let my kid drink a sports drink, it's not natural." I try to calmly explain what different sports drinks contain and why just drinking water on longer/harder days is not a good idea.
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Old 09-04-18, 03:06 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Definitely a sticky thread! Lots of information here.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-18, 04:43 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Cut practice in half today. Went to weight room to supplement
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Old 09-04-18, 08:06 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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I just spent the afternoon (1:30-6:00) working outside in the heat, with only water (plenty of) and occasional (3-4) 5 minutes breaks in the air conditioning during that 4-1/2 hour stretch. I'm in my 50's, but can still do some outside labor in 93 F (in the shade) heat and ~100F heat index. Us old guys can still get it done!
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Old 09-04-18, 09:12 PM
madman madman is offline
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These kids weren't so fortunate

"In July 2006, a 15-year-old high school football player participated in an off-season workout that took place in mid-90°F (~35°C) heat with 38% humidity. The athlete was 6’0” and weighed 300 pounds. Practice was held from approximately 5:00 p.m. to 6:45 p.m. and included lifting weights for one hour, followed by running and passing drills on the practice field. The athlete collapsed after the workout and required resuscitation on the field. He was transported to a local hospital and a rectal temperature of 109.1°F was recorded upon his arrival. He died the following day—cause of death was heat stroke.

In July 2006, an 11-year-old youth league football player participated in an intensive practice that took place in low-80°F (~28°C) heat with approximately 90% humidity. The athlete was 5’3” and weighed 153 pounds. Practice included running stairs and hillside sprints. He complained of dizziness. Paramedics were called and they transported him to the hospital. Upon arrival, his body temperature was 106°F. He died nine days later—cause of death was heat stroke.
"

====================

I am not advocating that we stop all training when it's hot outside, but the OP's question "When is hot, too hot?" deserves serious consideration. There are still too many coaches out there who believe athletes can overcome the effects of hot weather just by toughening up. It's not good enough to say "most athletes won't have a problem."

Anecdotal evidence based on our experiences is a poor substitute for the larger body of evidence and knowledge that exists on this topic.

The inadequacy of the advice to drink more water and to be smart will become mortifying when you're sitting next to a parent in a hospital while their child suffers from the effects of heat stroke if you take responsibilty for what happens to that child while under your care.

As already clearly explained, drinking water isn't sufficient. What does it mean to be smart? I think it means educating yourself. The CDC has a free online course that you might find helpful:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hsb/extreme.../page3081.html
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Old 09-05-18, 08:12 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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My daughter coaches in North Carolina. They are very strict when it comes to dealing with heat and student athletes. They have not had practice for a week and a half now. When the factors come together and it hits a certain level on the chart, No practice. This friday is their first 5k. Up until this point they run 3k's or something like that. It's out of the coaches hands. Which is sort of a good thing. She coaches with another coach that cannot roll with the punches and change his plan. He does not read kids well and just has a straight forward approach to coaching. Non emotional at times. My daughter is responsible for putting the training program together and she does not get rattled by having to take 11 days off. She sees it as a challenge where the head coach sees it as a complete disaster. Her only gripe is that some kids go out and run anyway because they are way from the school, so that really obsessed kid can still cause themselves real harm and not have school staff there to help in case of an emergency. Every school and every coach has to abide by the rules or you no longer coach, so while it may punish clear thinking and informed coaches, it protects kids from an ever increasing number of my way is best coaches that might put the kids in a bad situation.

I was doing things yesterday and I didn't think it was that bad. Although I was sweating just sitting in the house. The other day, I thought it was much worse, but everyone around me thought it wasn't nearly as bad as yesterday. I believe we need to listen to our body's, but maybe my body is lying to me sometimes. Maybe we really do need to follow the charts and just not leave it to hunches and guesses.
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Old 09-05-18, 08:14 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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No reason to cancel practice for anyone on any level. Be prepared and proactive.

Best solution practice before school when it is 70 degrees.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-18, 08:26 AM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is online now
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We cut our workout in half. Then we headed to the fitness room for our weight workout. Today will be a short run with a water break at the turn around spot.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-18, 08:46 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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14 of the 18 girls on my team ran at 6:15 this morning. 30 - 40 minutes recovery (4+ miles for most) their choice at what time... most chose wisely. All will meet After school to lift/core those 3-4 who did not run this morning may still run 30+ minutes but with a good drink every 10 minutes. Those who ran in the AM will be home a lot sooner as well as having a "better" run.
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Old 09-05-18, 11:57 AM
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Practicing before school is great if you can do it, but it is not an option for everyone or every school. We did a lot of optional practices in the morning last year for the kids with asthma and other breathing problems. So I am for it for the kids who can do it. At almost every school there are kids who will not be able to make it to school early enough to work out. For some schools most of the kids would not be able to make it to school. At my son's school if they had a 6:00 workout it would be him and one teammate who lives down the street from us. None of the rest of his teammates would be able to get there. They canceled school for today, but on days when they don't cancel the kids spend all day sitting in classrooms that are in the 80s and 90s then go to practice.

As madman, rohbino, psychodad and others have said, dealing with heat like this requires us to be informed, to pay attention and be willing to roll with adjustments to our plans. Drink water and be smart is absolutely necessary but not sufficient. You have to be well informed and pay attention. In my career I have had four kids require transportation to the hospital for heat exhaustion or heat stroke. In three of the four cases the kids drank lots of water, adjusted their effort down for the conditions and did everything else we told them to. In all four cases I wondered whether I had done enough to protect them from the whether and from themselves. That is not a good feeling. So err on the side of caution. Remember that keeping your athletes safe is your responsibility. When you feel yourself ready to throw shade at another coach, school or district for canceling or cutting back, stop and think.
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Old 09-05-18, 03:22 PM
SLS SLS is offline
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When conditions were extremely hot, I would have practice in a totally shaded area about a half mile long.. Athletes were closely monitored with water stops every half mile. Lots of out and back running. They ran at a moderate pace, and coaches on bikes constantly monitored them. They were strongly encouraged to drink water. We often went through 5 gallons of water and 4 gallons of Gatorade for thirty runners before, during, and after practice. Parents were allowed to excuse their kids from practice. Only one ever did. Runners who showed any signs of distress were taken out of practice. and had access to ice and cold water, then Gatorade. We never had any problems using this approach.
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Old 09-08-18, 08:53 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Thanks for the facts!

I was always afraid when I used the webbulb in the sleeve it would come out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
The OP's question is an important one that deserves more than a scolding about how to properly schedule meets.

The general sports regulations from the OHSAA has guidelines that are below, but wholly inadequate. Georgia has had more deaths due to heat than most states and their athletic association has implemented guidelines based on Wet Bulb Globe Temperature. We would do well to follow similar guidelines. Remember that the temperature used in the table must be the temperature actually experienced in the activity - don't use the temperature in the shade unless that's where you are practicing.




I was always afraid to swing the wetbulb for fear it would come out of the sleeve and break.






==========================

OHSAA Guidelines from the General Regulations


This procedure is to be used until such time as the temperature is below 84 degrees as no combination of heat and humidity at that level will result in a need to curtail activity.

1. Thirty minutes prior to the start of activity, temperature and humidity readings should be taken at the site.
2. The temperature and humidity should be factored into the Heat Index Calculation and Chart and a determination made as to the Heat Index. If schools are utilizing a digital sling psychrometer that calculates the Heat Index, that number may be used to apply to the table.
3. If a reading is determined whereby activity is to be decreased (above 95 degrees Heat Index), then re-readings would be required every thirty minutes to determine if further activity should be eliminated or preventative steps taken, or if an increased level of activity can resume.
4. Using the following table, activity should be altered and/or eliminated based on this Heat Index as determined:

Under 95 degrees Heat Index—
• Optional water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes if temperature rises in order to monitor for increased Heat Index.

95 degrees to 99 degrees Heat Index—
• Water shall always be available and athletes shall be able to take in as much water as they desire.
• Mandatory water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow for hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Helmets and other equipment should be removed when athlete not directly involved with competition, drill or practice and it is not otherwise required by rule.
Notes: Reduce time of outside activity. Consider postponing practice to later in the day. Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes to monitor for increased Heat Index.

100 degrees (above 99 degrees) to 104 degrees Heat Index—
• Water shall always be available and athletes shall be able to take in as much water as they desire.
• Mandatory water breaks every 30 minutes for 10 minutes in duration to allow hydration as a group.
• Have towels with ice for cooling of athletes as needed.
• Watch/monitor athletes carefully for necessary action.
• Alter uniform by removing items if possible and permissible by rules.
• Allow athletes to change to dry shirts and shorts at defined intervals.
• Reduce time of outside activity as well as indoor activity if air conditioning is unavailable.
• Postpone practice to later in day.
• If helmets or other protective requirement are required to be worn by rule or normal practice, suspend practice or competition immediately. Note: Re-check temperature and humidity every 30 minutes to monitor for changes in Heat Index.

Above 104 degrees Heat Index—
• Stop all outside activity in practice and/or play, and stop all inside activity if air conditioning is unavailable.
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