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  #1  
Old 05-16-17, 08:29 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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2017-18 NFHS Rules Changes

To expand on a previously created thread

Official Warning for Misconduct Given to Coaches in Basketball
By NFHS on May 11, 2017


Effective with the 2017-18 high school basketball season, play will be stopped and an official warning will be given to the head coach – and recorded in the scorebook – for misconduct by the coach or other bench personnel unless the offense is judged to be major, in which case a technical foul shall be assessed.

This new rule was one of the five changes recommended by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Basketball Rules Committee at its April 10-12 meeting in Indianapolis. All changes were subsequently approved by the NFHS Board of Directors.

In addition to misconduct violations related to Rule 10-5, the head coach will be officially warned for the first violation of Rule 10-6-1 regarding the coaching box.

Rules 4-48-1 and 4-48-2 will both have a note stating that a warning is not required prior to calling a technical foul.

“Stopping play and making sure that the bench and the coach know that an official warning has been given sends a clear message to everyone in the gym and impacts the behavior of the coach, and in some cases the behavior of the opposing coach,” said Theresia Wynns, NFHS director of sports and officials and liaison to the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee. “This change in behavior creates a better atmosphere and, many times, avoids the need to administer a technical foul.”

In other changes, the rules committee approved enlarging the coaching box from 14 feet to 28 feet. The coaching box now shall be bounded by a line drawn 28 feet from the end line toward the division line. A line drawn from the sideline toward the team bench becomes the end of the coaching box toward the end line. State associations may alter the length and placement of the 28-foot coaching box.

“The committee thought the restriction of the (14-foot) coaching box limited the level of communication between the coach and players,” Wynns said. “Allowing a coach freedom to move within the new box between the 28-foot mark and the end line provides a coach more access to his or her players.”

Changes in Rules 3-4-1d and 3-4-4 regarding uniforms were approved by the committee, including restrictions on identifying names that can be placed in the allowable area of the jersey. Identifying names on uniforms must adhere to the following: school name, school nickname, school logo, player’s name and/or abbreviation of the official school name. The panel in the shoulder area on the back of the jersey may be used for placing an identifying name as well.

The committee also approved a change in the way officials signal a foul against a player. After verbally informing the offender, the official shall use fingers on two hands to indicate to the scorer the number of the offender and the number of free throws.

“This change was made to minimize reporting errors that occur between the officials and the scorekeepers,” Wynns said. “Two-handed reporting is easier for the scorekeepers to see and comprehend, and it is less confusing.”
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  #2  
Old 05-16-17, 10:23 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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It should be emphasized that there is not a mandatory warning prior to a technical foul being issued. This change is a tool that is being made available to officials similar to what the Baseball Rules committee did a few years ago allowing for a "written warning" (noted on the lineup cards) to be issued prior to an ejection.

In both instances any act of a major nature (as determined by the official) can (and should) result in an immediate technical foul being assessed, sans the official warning.
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Old 05-16-17, 11:44 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
It should be emphasized that there is not a mandatory warning prior to a technical foul being issued. This change is a tool that is being made available to officials similar to what the Baseball Rules committee did a few years ago allowing for a "written warning" (noted on the lineup cards) to be issued prior to an ejection.

In both instances any act of a major nature (as determined by the official) can (and should) result in an immediate technical foul being assessed, sans the official warning.
Absolutely. I envision that being the most common complaint from coaches: "Don't I get a warning first?" Nope, not necessarily.

This is a great change for both coaches and officials IMO. It puts the onus on the coach to fix his behavior (or his bench's) with a documented warning that the whole gym can see, before he gets the seatbelt.

Officials all have different tolerance levels and assigners all have different expectations, so a "major" infraction in one game may not be so in the next (unless the OHSAA puts out some guidance). All the more reason for coaches to control themselves and their benches.
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Old 05-16-17, 12:22 PM
tmajic tmajic is offline
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I hope it works. The abuse the officials are putting up with is unbelievable. At some point the coaches have to change their behavior.
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  #5  
Old 05-17-17, 07:29 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmajic View Post
I hope it works. The abuse the officials are putting up with is unbelievable. At some point the coaches have to change their behavior.
I think that the no-appeal 2-game suspension, overall, does a good job of putting the onus on the coaches to keep themselves under control. At the same time, there are plenty of officials who are hesitant to penalize unacceptable behavior due to possibility of receiving bad ratings from the coaches, which ultimately affects their postseason assignments.
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Old 05-17-17, 08:07 AM
tmajic tmajic is offline
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I believe your 2nd sentence is the big issue. The no-appeal 2 game suspension + fine only works if the coaches are given the penalty. There are coaches that are out of control each and every game and the officials don't penalize them. A quick T when warranted would take care of that behavior. If that coach has it happen 2, 3 or 4 games in a row then their attitude would change. I have seen it personally for many years. Maybe this will help.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-17, 10:09 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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The biggest problem with warnings occurs when officials don't follow through. You lose all credibility when you warn a coach and continue to let him act the fool.

In order for the official warning to work, officials have to follow through with a T immediately when the coach starts acting up again. If I warn a coach and he throws his hands up in the air and gives me a "WTF" look, he's getting the seatbelt. We have to have the guts to follow through.
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  #8  
Old 05-18-17, 11:35 AM
tmajic tmajic is offline
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Exactly Zebrastripes. Great point.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-17, 12:34 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
The biggest problem with warnings occurs when officials don't follow through. You lose all credibility when you warn a coach and continue to let him act the fool.

In order for the official warning to work, officials have to follow through with a T immediately when the coach starts acting up again. If I warn a coach and he throws his hands up in the air and gives me a "WTF" look, he's getting the seatbelt. We have to have the guts to follow through.
^^^^ This


There are way, way, way too many officials in Ohio who have a primary goal of working deep into the tournament. One of the components of tournament selection is coaches ratings.....

Do the math.......
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  #10  
Old 05-27-17, 11:29 PM
jtk jtk is offline
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so when you explain a call to a coach and waves his hand at you, you give him a seatbelt?

I explained to a spectator i was sitting next to in the stands why a foul was called, and the official was talking to the HC and his assistant gave the wave and the assistant got whacked. then the HC wouldn't sit b/c he tried to justify with the official that the T wasn't on him, it was on his bench......LOL. I just watched from the stands and shook my head. Its amazing how little knowledge the people teaching our youth on basketball know about the rules........

jtk
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  #11  
Old 05-28-17, 07:29 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtk View Post
so when you explain a call to a coach and waves his hand at you, you give him a seatbelt?
He asks for an explanation (big concern by coaches is, "they won't talk to us") and you give it. Since he doesn't like the explanation he responds by waving you off.

Automatic T in my book. No warning warranted.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-17, 08:27 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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A technical foul because the coach waved his hand? That's a little silly if the coach didn't say something as well.
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  #13  
Old 05-28-17, 09:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
A technical foul because the coach waved his hand? That's a little silly if the coach didn't say something as well.
Not the situation...

He asks for an explanation
You give him said explanation
He doesn't like explanation
He looks you dead in the eye and waves you off

Maybe you will allow that......

I won't
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  #14  
Old 05-28-17, 09:24 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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For me it depends on how demonstrative the wave is. If I'm standing next to the coach talking to him and he gives a slight hand motion indicating "whatever," that doesn't bother me. The wave-off I think of is the demonstrative one that the entire gym sees because it's directed at an official far away from the bench. If it comes from the assistant, I'm even less likely to let it slide. Assistants do not have the same privileges that head coaches do, period. Under the new rules, this may be an opportunity to put a warning in the book.

My comment referred to a coach throwing both his hands up in reaction to a call or an explanation (or now, a warning), showing up the official in front of the entire gym. I doubt I would let that slide without at least a warning.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-17, 12:01 AM
jtk jtk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
A technical foul because the coach waved his hand? That's a little silly if the coach didn't say something as well.
to my official friends its like giving you the bird, so a T is given........

jtk
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  #16  
Old 05-30-17, 07:11 AM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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It seems this occurs anyway many times today, just not with official documentation. It seems a decent way to show that the ref was not just acting quickly/rashly but now they can show ever opportunity for the coach to act appropriately was provided.

Tangent: I feel the amount of wining and complaining by coaches and players during the game (NBA on down) is causing major damage to the game.

Tangent #2. The pace and space era is making it very difficult for officials. Better rules need to be created for contact on the dribble, contact on the shooter etc. to allow less judgement calls and easier interpretation.
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  #17  
Old 05-30-17, 11:03 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtk View Post
to my official friends its like giving you the bird, so a T is given........

jtk
()
Many officials allow coaches to verbally berate them... yet waving your hand will get a T? If I was an official I would much rather tolerate a hand being waved than coaches verbal abuse.
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Old 05-30-17, 11:04 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
It seems this occurs anyway many times today, just not with official documentation. It seems a decent way to show that the ref was not just acting quickly/rashly but now they can show ever opportunity for the coach to act appropriately was provided.

Tangent: I feel the amount of wining and complaining by coaches and players during the game (NBA on down) is causing major damage to the game.

Tangent #2. The pace and space era is making it very difficult for officials. Better rules need to be created for contact on the dribble, contact on the shooter etc. to allow less judgement calls and easier interpretation.
I agree... too subjective on what is a foul in the post, on the ball handler, etc...
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Old 05-30-17, 11:34 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
Many officials allow coaches to verbally berate them...
Therein lies the problem.

Too many officials worried about ratings.
Too many officials worried about tournament assignments.
Too many officials that won't take care of business when it needs to be taken care of.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-17, 12:55 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
It seems this occurs anyway many times today, just not with official documentation. It seems a decent way to show that the ref was not just acting quickly/rashly but now they can show ever opportunity for the coach to act appropriately was provided.
You're right. Most coach T's I've called in my career were preceded by some type of unofficial warning. Heck, even before this rule change there were lots of officials who would put these types of warnings in the book even though it wasn't technically permitted (trickle-down from college basketball).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
Many officials allow coaches to verbally berate them... yet waving your hand will get a T? If I was an official I would much rather tolerate a hand being waved than coaches verbal abuse.
Philosophy.

A wave-off is a demonstrative action for which the film will back up an official who penalizes it. Lips can't be read on most high school game film, and coaches can always just say "I didn't say that" when the assigner tells him why he received a T. Then it turns into a he said/she said contest.

This is why I do not stand too close to the coach when I don't have to. It's too easy for a coach to say something that crosses the line but at a lower volume; if I whack him, there might not be other witnesses and he can easily deny that he said anything T-worthy. I keep my distance so that if he wants to talk to me, the onus is on him to watch what he says, and if I end up calling a T, it's more evident why.

And there are plenty of coaches (more so at the college level than high school) who are clever enough to understand this strategy when it comes to talking to officials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
I agree... too subjective on what is a foul in the post, on the ball handler, etc...
Any player with the ball is subject to protection from the four "automatic" fouls that the NFHS instituted three years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Therein lies the problem.

Too many officials worried about ratings.
Too many officials worried about tournament assignments.
Too many officials that won't take care of business when it needs to be taken care of.
Yep, but the only way to get rid of this is to get rid of the coaches having influence into who works the postseason. And that won't happen anytime soon.
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  #21  
Old 05-30-17, 01:03 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Just call the game the way you see it and walk off with your paycheck.
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  #22  
Old 05-30-17, 01:35 PM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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I still feel many officials are way too thin skinned. Unless the coach is attacking you with his words or using vulgarities there should be no T's issued. A T for a wave??? C'mon man. Basketball is an emotional sport and a good coach will try and protect his players and ensure that they get fair treatment from the refs. He may have to disagree with their calls from time to time. As long as coach is not abusive, there should not be a T. JMO.
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  #23  
Old 05-30-17, 02:21 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. Swish View Post
I still feel many officials are way too thin skinned. Unless the coach is attacking you with his words or using vulgarities there should be no T's issued. A T for a wave??? C'mon man. Basketball is an emotional sport and a good coach will try and protect his players and ensure that they get fair treatment from the refs. He may have to disagree with their calls from time to time. As long as coach is not abusive, there should not be a T. JMO.
There are sportsmanship rules in the book that are meant to preserve the integrity of high school athletics and keep games from getting out of control. On top of that, the OHSAA requires us as officials to uphold those guidelines.

If I warn a coach and he continues to act up, he's in essence told me that he wants a T. And I will give him what he wants.

If a coach waves me off while I'm away from his bench and I've just made a call against his team, that's essentially a big "F*** you" that the entire gym can see. He's showing up the crew and potentially inciting the crowd.

A coach has plenty of options for making his point without going outside the lines of sportsmanship. If he chooses to cross those lines, that's on him.
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Old 05-30-17, 03:41 PM
TheGreatElk TheGreatElk is offline
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Officials are supposed to be unemotional. Coaches and players are emotionally wrapped up in the game. If you're thin skinned then you shouldn't be a ref. in addition, many (most?) never played the game and have no feel for it. So, they make poor calls and then can't take the criticism.
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Old 05-30-17, 04:00 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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An official claiming he wants to give a coach what he wants. That's a first.
The best officials make themselves a small part of the game. If when the game ends and the coaches, players and fans cannot remember the official's names, it's a good thing. To many officials have a power trip when they get on the court. Don't mistake my words, if tempers get out of control deal with it. But never forget you are a contractor HIRED to do a job. If it's done poorly or to the unsatisfaction of those truly in charge you will not be rehired. For the record I agree, and hand wave is not the same as an F.U. Regardless of what the call is.
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Old 05-30-17, 06:07 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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This thread was related to rules changes and has gone completely off base, but I can't ignore these comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatElk View Post
Officials are supposed to be unemotional. Coaches and players are emotionally wrapped up in the game. If you're thin skinned then you shouldn't be a ref. in addition, many (most?) never played the game and have no feel for it. So, they make poor calls and then can't take the criticism.
There are sportsmanship rules that are required to be enforced. Has nothing to do with thin skin. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that or why it's too much to expect adults (coaches) to act like adults even under pressure. In what job is it acceptable to throw a tantrum when things don't go your way?

You are completely wrong on this point. Many officials get into officiating to stay connected to the game when their playing days are over. Not all, but a significant number of them.

Since you're qualified to point out all the poor calls we make, you should come join us in the fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
An official claiming he wants to give a coach what he wants. That's a first.
The best officials make themselves a small part of the game. If when the game ends and the coaches, players and fans cannot remember the official's names, it's a good thing. To many officials have a power trip when they get on the court. Don't mistake my words, if tempers get out of control deal with it. But never forget you are a contractor HIRED to do a job. If it's done poorly or to the unsatisfaction of those truly in charge you will not be rehired. For the record I agree, and hand wave is not the same as an F.U. Regardless of what the call is.
The "the best officials go unnoticed philosophy" is largely outdated and misinterpreted. The best officials in the world call the NBA Finals, yet most fans can name a handful of NBA officials (same for other pro sports). Coaches at the high school level see the same officials year after year and learn their names regardless of how good or bad they are.

I really don't think that many officials go out with a power trip. There are some, but that's mainly just a fanboy complaint about officials taking care of business that ultimately has little validity.

The hand wave AllSports and I have described is not an acceptable action from a coach and will likely get a warning or a T. That's (almost) a universally accepted officiating philosophy, whether you agree with it or not.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:09 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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It's outdated only because some officials have tried to become a deciding part of the game. You do not have to be in the NBA to be the best official. In the NBA you see calls missed all the time. Traveling is a prime example. Coaches do see officials often but that does not mean they know all of their names. And neither do the fans. Why would they care to.
It's not a fanboy complaint it's an observation. Unfortunately there are not enough officials so work is guaranteed even if you are below average.
An official has always had the ability to give a coach a T. All this change does is enforces the refs position to throw them around. If a coach is insulting, using foul language or aggressive physically or vocally to anybody I support a T. Other than that call the game collect your pay and move on go to your next contract.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:20 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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You're completely wrong, but I'm not going to waste my time anymore when you're not going to listen anyway.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:20 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Hahahaha!
I'm completely wrong because I disagree with you? I'm not currently a licensed official. I don't currently have kids playing. I attend basketball events regular and have for over 40 years. So I do not have an agenda. What I do have is experience from observations. Coaches are not all angels, fans can be problems, but to say officials are required to uphold the guidelines to preserve the integrity of the game is over the top. Someone surely feels very highly of themselves.

Call the game, let the kids decide the outcome, walk off the court and collect your check. JMO
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Old 05-30-17, 08:39 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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Granted times have changed greatly since I played in HS in the mid/late 50s, but there was one pair of officials I always looked forward to calling our games. You knew how they called, that they didn't miss anything and they were even handed both ways. It may sound dumb, but I think it made playing the game easier for us as players. I don't follow as closely now, but one of the things I hear from several official friends, some of whom I played against in HS, that the 3 man crew may sound good, but when you sometimes don't know who the other two are going to be until minutes before the game tips off it makes for an uneasy evening.
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