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  #31  
Old 04-18-17, 09:35 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Agreed, but it is a doable task though. And I think it can reap benefits for the participation, both players and fans, of the entire sport.
Half a dozen of one- six of the other. Some benefit, some downsides- not sure it would be worth the adjustment. I enjoy both boys and girls basketball, but the numbers are significantly smaller for those that follow/attend girls basketball in general and I don't think there is enough "crossover" of the casual fan from boys to warrant them being combined. Most times the crowd at girls games is only family, friends and a few students. Obviously some sports have both boys/girls championships at the same time- swimming/diving; track; bowling; golf- but they lend themselves better to that format. Just in SW Ohio D1- the girls field has been whittled down from over 50 teams to under a dozen by the time the boys start sectionals- much easier to manage.
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  #32  
Old 04-18-17, 10:21 AM
trojandave trojandave is offline
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I think all teams should be included........Southeastern Ross won only 5 games in the regular season, but advanced to the regional semifinal with a district championship win over 22-1 Oak Hill. I know the SE district is probably the weakest in the state, but there are other examples around Ohio of a Cinderella making a good tournament run. It seems like every year there is a team with double digit losses making the regional. Having every team in the tournament sets up lopsided sectional games, but there still should remain the chance that anybody can get hot at tournament time. This also would apply to teams with significant injuries during the regular season which hurt their overall record.

I have long been an advocate for 4 divisions, but there is too much enrollment discrepancy in D1. Having 5 divisions would make it more fair for the smaller D1 schools that no longer would have to compete against schools with 400-500 more boys than them. Another possibility is to keep 4 divisions, but not having to make each division with the same number of schools (approximately 200 in each division). There are schools with 900-1000 boys and there is no way to divide schools into 4 divisions with 200 schools in each and keep it fair.

One more thing...........give medals to individual players for winning the regional. In the SE district, medals are given to players for winning the district, but not the regional, which I find odd, given that being regional champions is really a greater accomplishment. It would be a medal well earned and not the dreaded participation medal at all.
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  #33  
Old 04-18-17, 01:59 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
Philly Cat---- DO NOT FORCE us to watch girls games by putting them with the boys game....
Is that you, son? Lol. My son hates girls basketball, and is always giving me a hard time about following it.

I gotta admit there are some things about the girls' version of the game that irritate me - and I see these things at high levels of college basketball. 1) Many perimeter players have a tendency to stare at a post trying to get position, and then pass it - and it gets deflected or stolen. You have to see that it's there before it's there. Boys seem to do that better, and they won't throw it if they stare at it for 3 seconds because they know it's no longer there. Girls will wing it in there anyway. 2) Many don't have the strength and accuracy to throw a full-length pass to the other end, from the chest or baseball style - but they try anyway, and the result is rarely anything but a steal or it goes too long out of bounds. 3) Many don't protect the ball by chinning it after a rebound. Sometimes they immediately pivot and keep the ball low, exposing it to a bunch of hands. When a boy gets a defensive rebound, everyone runs to the other end. When a girl gets one, 3 or 4 kids are in there flailing at the ball and trying to knock it loose. It affects the flow and aesthetics of the game. 4) A general lack of ball-handling skills and strength, causes a lot of loose balls, tie ups, turnovers, and interruption to the game.

On the plus side, I believe the girls game is a purer form of the game in that it relies on execution. The boys game is more reliant on athleticism. There is athleticism and execution in both versions, but they are different in emphasis and degree.

The girls version is only insufferable if you are comparing it to boys. Yes, the boys play a smoother, more athletically exciting game above the rim, while the girls play is more rough and chaotic below the rim. But I treat them like two different sports, and I enjoy watching girls execute the game against each other, as much as I enjoy seeing the athletic match ups in the boys game.

I think the girls game would be helped if the overall skill level increased. Your top programs are producing very skilled players, but there are many places where no one cares about girls sports in general, and basketball in particular, the coaching is poor, and the players can't dribble, pass, shoot with form, get in a proper defensive stance, etc. Basketball is an ugly game when the skill level is low.

I like the idea of having alternating boys and girls games just for the idea of giving the girls the opportunity to play in front of 10K instead of 3K.

But if one can't appreciate girls basketball for what it is, then I understand how they might hate that idea.
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  #34  
Old 04-18-17, 03:41 PM
Akronite Akronite is offline
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I would skip the tournament if they combined the boys and girls. I'm not at all interested in watching girls play basketball
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  #35  
Old 04-18-17, 03:55 PM
St.X fan2 St.X fan2 is offline
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Have a shot clock in the games so there is not stalling and boring games while the team passes it around for a long time.
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  #36  
Old 04-18-17, 09:52 PM
Look Ma No Hands Look Ma No Hands is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akronite View Post
I would skip the tournament if they combined the boys and girls. I'm not at all interested in watching girls play basketball
1) Watch boys game
2) Sneak off to watch NCAA games
3) Wash, rinse, repeat
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  #37  
Old 04-18-17, 09:59 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
1) Every team does not make the playoffs

2) Teams placed in tournament brackets according to the end of season rankings (no more choosing where you play)

3) Districts made up of a hard set of schools each for every region


4) Increase state tournament to include 16 teams, 4 teams per region. Regional 1 seeds play 4 seeds and 2 seeds play 3 seeds. An extra 3rd place game would need to be added to the regional tournaments. This allows for years when there are multiple top teams from the same region to be able to still make it to the state championship instead of knocking each other off in the regional tournament. You could now theoretically have a state final matchup of two teams from same region.

5) If the previous two rules are created it might be beneficial to also create two separate district and regional tournaments, applying the same idea for the regional to state tournament, to the district to regional tournament. Maybe make it so the 2 teams from the district championship then make the 8 team regional tournament. This way multiple teams from a district still have a chance to make the state tournament. This change added with the state tournament expansion means you could now potentially see a state championship of two teams from the same district.

6) Finally, have all four division state championships games for both boys and girls the same weekend together.

Saturday

Boys D4
Girls D3
Boys D2
Girls D1

Sunday

Girls D4
Boys D3
Girls D2
Boys D1
That's social Justice idiocy. It's all simple, just add a shot clock.
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  #38  
Old 04-22-17, 11:18 PM
FossyWriter8 FossyWriter8 is offline
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Iowa, which has four divisions like Ohio, takes eight teams to state for both girls and boys. The tournaments are held on different weeks.
Quarterfinals start Monday and teams get whittled down until state finals and consolation finals on Friday and Saturday.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-17, 01:48 PM
coachablekid coachablekid is offline
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This is what I would do: I would go by records at the end of the year and break it down. Still letting all schools participate. Example; 5 losses and less are DI so 17 - 5 record and up will fight for the DI title. 6 to 10 losses will be DII so 12 - 10 will get you in the DII bracket. DIII is 11 to 16 losses, 6 - 16 record gets you in DIII and 17 and more losses are DIV. This will make you play a tough regular season schedule and keep it competitive and give schools chances. Why would any high school tank and try to lose all your games to win a state title? I think this could work. This takes away enrollment numbers and competitive balance.
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  #40  
Old 04-24-17, 02:52 PM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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Divisions based on losses

This could be the most poorly thought out post I've seen on this site. Wrong on oh so many levels. Unless it's meant to be a joke, in which case it's just stupid.
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  #41  
Old 04-24-17, 05:06 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachablekid View Post
Why would any high school tank and try to lose all your games to win a state title?
Some ideas who don't want to put in someone's head. Even worse if TWO coaches get the idea. That'd be a game to see.

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone trying to improve their chances by losing, said noone in Dayton.
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  #42  
Old 04-25-17, 08:07 AM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Some ideas who don't want to put in someone's head. Even worse if TWO coaches get the idea. That'd be a game to see.

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone trying to improve their chances by losing, said noone in Dayton.
This reminds me of a few years ago two Tennessee girls teams were banned from post season play for a year or two by TSSAA for trying to lose a game. They have some crazy round-robin first round that then seeds the regional tournament and neither team wanted seeded to play Blackman, as I recall.
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  #43  
Old 04-26-17, 12:33 PM
coachablekid coachablekid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Some ideas who don't want to put in someone's head. Even worse if TWO coaches get the idea. That'd be a game to see.

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone trying to improve their chances by losing, said noone in Dayton.
I am sorry, I should not have said tank! Some of these high school basketball schedules are not good and it shows during the tournament.
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  #44  
Old 04-26-17, 12:39 PM
coachablekid coachablekid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk some sense View Post
This could be the most poorly thought out post I've seen on this site. Wrong on oh so many levels. Unless it's meant to be a joke, in which case it's just stupid.
I just think outside the box! You don't know me to call me stuipid, but anyhow! To be honest, I like it the way it is. Nothing in life is fair. Let the great Catholic schools and the big suburb schools keep winning. I am sure you one of these guys. Have a good day!
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  #45  
Old 04-26-17, 01:12 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Been reading this with interest. I have a few large view ideas but nothing micro to focus on the how to do it part.

First, divisions based on student number is silly today when transportation eliminates geographical barriers so effortlessly. Especially in basketball, one or two key transfers makes a big difference. Maybe the coach or school decides for themselves what division they wish to compete, similar to AAU or college athletics?

Second, play the small division games in a small arena with the participating schools getting the best seats, as others have mentioned already.

Third, I really like double elimination tournaments, gives more probability the top two teams face each other in the final, and perhaps that turns the championship into a best of three if the lower bracket winner defeats the upper winner making one more game next necessary for crowning the champ. In D4 a couple years ago (2013) this would have been great to have in place as anyone in the path of VASJ was going to be easily eliminated. A double elimination tournament would have at least allowed each team the opportunity to try for second, and VASJ would still have gotten their coveted small school trophy to put in the case next to their mid size school and big school championship trophies.
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