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  #1  
Old 06-15-14, 10:23 AM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Kennard All-Time Dayton Great

With his inclusion on the U-18 team, where does everyone put Luke Kennard on the list of all time Dayton area great high school players?

--Outside the 10 ten greatest ever
--One of the ten greatest players ever

I think it would be hard to name 9 better high school basketball players. That is saying a lot considering the history of the Dayton area.
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  #2  
Old 06-15-14, 10:40 AM
AJK091610 AJK091610 is offline
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He is a great player and has an outstanding resume which I agree would be tough to name 9 other players. However, he is only going into his senior year.. Might be to early for to say top 10 of all time until he is done with his senior season but I would put him into the top 10 but I also am from Franklin..
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  #3  
Old 06-15-14, 07:28 PM
Yuckmouth Yuckmouth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJK091610 View Post
He is a great player and has an outstanding resume which I agree would be tough to name 9 other players. However, he is only going into his senior year.. Might be to early for to say top 10 of all time until he is done with his senior season but I would put him into the top 10 but I also am from Franklin..
Really love his ability but the Dayton things is a hard pill to swallow right now. I would pay to see him play and do not discount his abilities but all the Dayton area greats were forged within the city limits. You have a list of kids from Dayton who have opportunities at the NBA to forge their own legacies. I think time will tell the story I wish Luke well and continued success.

This is difficult because a Dunbar team may have had 3 guys that could lead a squad and score 30 a game. AJ Harris has Dawson, and Landers among others that can get it done if they chose to play on a lesser team for points over chances at championships. Norris Cole, Geron Johnson, Aaron Pogue, all did the same things. Mark Alstork shared the scoring duties with Joe Thomasson who is highly regarded in basketball circles and had great team success. Gary Akbar, Teddy Hawkins just to name a few recently good players that all can play. They prove it against each other in the downtown ymca. This is a good debate but very hard to answer to date.
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  #4  
Old 06-15-14, 07:45 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuckmouth View Post
Really love his ability but the Dayton things is a hard pill to swallow right now. I would pay to see him play and do not discount his abilities but all the Dayton area greats were forged within the city limits. You have a list of kids from Dayton who have opportunities at the NBA to forge their own legacies. I think time will tell the story I wish Luke well and continued success.

This is difficult because a Dunbar team may have had 3 guys that could lead a squad and score 30 a game. AJ Harris has Dawson, and Landers among others that can get it done if they chose to play on a lesser team for points over chances at championships. Norris Cole, Geron Johnson, Aaron Pogue, all did the same things. Mark Alstork shared the scoring duties with Joe Thomasson who is highly regarded in basketball circles and had great team success. Gary Akbar, Teddy Hawkins just to name a few recently good players that all can play. They prove it against each other in the downtown ymca. This is a good debate but very hard to answer to date.
I hope your intention was not to put the players you list on the same level as Luke Kennard. If not, my apologies.
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  #5  
Old 06-15-14, 09:26 PM
catscatscats catscatscats is online now
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Top 10 is hard to say right now with guys like Cook,Paxson,Dwight Anderson,Chris Wright, several others. He will go down as a great though
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  #6  
Old 06-15-14, 09:40 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Jim and John Paxson, Dwight Anderson, Don May, DeQuan Cook, Johnny Green, Ron Harper, Bill Hosket, Norris Cole, Frankie Sanders. There's 10 that have a strong college resume, and some great pros. Those are just players from Dayton, not even including guys like Jerry Lucas and Wayne Embry from the Dayton area. Maybe the kid will be there someday, but not yet.
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  #7  
Old 06-16-14, 07:37 AM
Perk Diggler Perk Diggler is offline
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Top 10 is pushing it...

Mark Baker... Adreine Payne... Like people said it's still to early to tell. Luke's a good one though.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-14, 01:23 PM
member1 member1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
With his inclusion on the U-18 team, where does everyone put Luke Kennard on the list of all time Dayton area great high school players?

--Outside the 10 ten greatest ever
--One of the ten greatest players ever

I think it would be hard to name 9 better high school basketball players. That is saying a lot considering the history of the Dayton area.
There are 10 better players better from DPS alone not even including the suburbs. He may fall in the top 20, maybe. Now if your speaking solely on stats yeah of course, but stats can be inflated because of competition. Anyway he is a great HS talent and the Franklin folks should enjoy this last ride. I would be anxious to see how he performs in the world games. My bet is he will excel at what he does best. Shooting the ball.
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  #9  
Old 06-16-14, 01:40 PM
BigVic1 BigVic1 is offline
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Kurt Taylor Dunbar to add to the list....

Last edited by BigVic1; 06-16-14 at 02:23 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-16-14, 03:52 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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It's hard to say if hes top 10 or not. Most of us haven't seen the guys from the old glory days of Dayton basketball. It's like comparing Lebron James to Magic and Larry. Different eras and different type of basketball.

In my life time hes a sure fire top 10 player. Since 1988 only 4 players from the Dayton area have won either an AP Mr. Ohio or a coaches association Mr. Ohio.
Those are Andre Hutson- Trotwood, Brooks Hall- Troy, Romain Sato- Dayton Christian, and now Kennard. I believe Kennard is better than all of them. I've seen all of them play too.
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  #11  
Old 06-16-14, 06:26 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
There are 10 better players better from DPS alone not even including the suburbs. He may fall in the top 20, maybe. Now if your speaking solely on stats yeah of course, but stats can be inflated because of competition. Anyway he is a great HS talent and the Franklin folks should enjoy this last ride. I would be anxious to see how he performs in the world games. My bet is he will excel at what he does best. Shooting the ball.
So there have been 10 players from DPS who were offered by every single major college program in the nation?

Name them.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-14, 08:29 PM
KneeJerk96 KneeJerk96 is offline
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His resume is impressive thus far and if you went by that tou would have a strong case but from a talent standpoint I honestly don't think he could make DPS top ten all time list: These are just Dunbar guys

Daequan Cook
Kurt Taylor
Mark Baker
Geron Johnson
Richard Tutu Brown
Wild Bill Higgins
Mike Haley Jr.
Norris Cole
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  #13  
Old 06-16-14, 08:33 PM
member1 member1 is offline
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I knew it was coming!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nelmo View Post
So there have been 10 players from DPS who were offered by every single major college program in the nation?

Name them.
I should have just read this post and moved on. Well anyway...try this list to start..

Anderson
Baker
Taylor
Haley
Cook
Hahn
May
Hosket
Patterson( hoggie)
Scales

I'll stop there. All these dudes wold have done exactly what he has done vs. the level of competition. There are still some others that are not even mentioned that would compare favorably as well. The recruiting stuff is not the point. I said there are 10 cats from DPS alone that I think are better... With the emphasis on I. I was fortunate to see all of the above except May and Hosket and I garantee you they were all awesome. Heck three of them were on the same team! I got another 10 for you if this ain't enough... What if we pulled Trotwood and Jefferson I into the mix. He might end up in the top 30. Maybe.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-14, 08:36 PM
catscatscats catscatscats is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeJerk96 View Post
His resume is impressive thus far and if you went by that tou would have a strong case but from a talent standpoint I honestly don't think he could make DPS top ten all time list: These are just Dunbar guys

Daequan Cook
Kurt Taylor
Mark Baker
Geron Johnson
Richard Tutu Brown
Wild Bill Higgins
Mike Haley Jr.
Norris Cole
He is better then high school Norris Cole. Let's remember he was headed d2 before Cleveland st took a chance
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  #15  
Old 06-16-14, 08:38 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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I'd put Juwan Staten up there. As far as credentials in high school and college. Maybe a future NBA player as well.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-14, 08:38 PM
member1 member1 is offline
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Man....

Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeJerk96 View Post
His resume is impressive thus far and if you went by that tou would have a strong case but from a talent standpoint I honestly don't think he could make DPS top ten all time list: These are just Dunbar guys

Daequan Cook
Kurt Taylor
Mark Baker
Geron Johnson
Richard Tutu Brown
Wild Bill Higgins
Mike Haley Jr.
Norris Cole
And this is just the Dunbar guys. Your forget Ken Bozeman, Demond Johnson, Clifton Cook, Packnett. He might not be top ten talent wise at Dunbar alone. Just sayin.......The kid is great but this may not be water to tread in for his loyal followers.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-14, 08:40 PM
member1 member1 is offline
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Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by catscatscats View Post
He is better then high school Norris Cole. Let's remember he was headed d2 before Cleveland st took a chance
Where he was headed is irrelevant. How many state championships did Norris win? Don't be fooled by stats. Norris was a winner!
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  #18  
Old 06-16-14, 08:46 PM
GCLman4525 GCLman4525 is offline
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Don't forget Dan Gerhart from Chaminade, 1970 AA Ohio Player of the Year. Went on to play at Ohio State.
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  #19  
Old 06-16-14, 08:49 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Where he was headed is irrelevant. How many state championships did Norris win? Don't be fooled by stats. Norris was a winner!
Measuring high school players by number of state titles is silly. High school kennard is better than high school cole. That's a no brainer.
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  #20  
Old 06-16-14, 08:53 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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Define "talent".

I would think a pretty strong indicator of talent would be the evaluation of guys who get paid millions of dollars to do it professionally. You know, the Hall of Fame type coaches like K, Cal, and Roy. The vast majority of people listed in recent posts received regional college interest at best. Luke Kennard got offers from college basketball royalty. Call me crazy, but that would seem to hold a little more weight than what is happening in the games down at the Y.
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  #21  
Old 06-16-14, 09:01 PM
KneeJerk96 KneeJerk96 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelmo View Post
So there have been 10 players from DPS who were offered by every single major college program in the nation?

Name them.
My point is you are placing him in the top ten based on his resume which is cool. My point is at this point in his career he is not a top ten talent guy. He is a high level shooter and competitor but my personal opinion speaking in terms of basketball talent defending, rebounding, creating his own shot against HS top competition, I have seen better.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-14, 09:04 PM
member1 member1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
Measuring high school players by number of state titles is silly. High school kennard is better than high school cole. That's a no brainer.
Silly to you. Give me the cat that leads his team to that game and makes players around him better. You may want the 40 a night dude. That's you prerogative. Everybody in the city knew what Cole brought to the table. His leadership and attitude was part of his "talent".
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  #23  
Old 06-16-14, 09:05 PM
KneeJerk96 KneeJerk96 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelmo View Post
Define "talent".

I would think a pretty strong indicator of talent would be the evaluation of guys who get paid millions of dollars to do it professionally. You know, the Hall of Fame type coaches like K, Cal, and Roy. The vast majority of people listed in recent posts received regional college interest at best. Luke Kennard got offers from college basketball royalty. Call me crazy, but that would seem to hold a little more weight than what is happening in the games down at the Y.
Those guys need shooters and its no doubt that Luke is a big time shooter....but its more to the game than shooting.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-14, 09:21 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeJerk96 View Post
Those guys need shooters and its no doubt that Luke is a big time shooter....but its more to the game than shooting.
This is just lazy. Kennard is much more than a shooter. You don't become a consensus top 25 player by just being a shooter. Kennard has excellent court vision and above average handles for a two-guard.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-14, 09:25 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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As I said in my post, he is not there yet (I am including post-HS careers, too), but he stands a good chance to be there soon. He was recruited by all the great programs, and Duke is as good as it gets in today's college hoops. That tells me he is pretty darn good.
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  #26  
Old 06-16-14, 09:51 PM
KneeJerk96 KneeJerk96 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelmo View Post
This is just lazy. Kennard is much more than a shooter. You don't become a consensus top 25 player by just being a shooter. Kennard has excellent court vision and above average handles for a two-guard.
I'm trying not to be critical of his game but since insist. Outside his elite shooting, Kennard has excellent court vision and a good rebounder, average handles, he cant create his own shot against a good defenders, he cant defend top level players, his competition level sucks which causes guys like you to think he is better than he actually is and he has no endurance every time I seen him play against pressure defense he is out of gas by halftime. Those are the reasons why I wouldn't place him in my top ten from a speaking from a talent perspective meaning his range of capabilities on the court.
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  #27  
Old 06-16-14, 10:41 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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All competition level comments please consider his elite AUU exposure and making team usa u18. How many people from dayton have made team USA u18? High school basketball is becoming such a small part of a player evaluations. I feel you could proably get a high major scholly never playing a second of high school if academically eligible and summer skill showed required skillset. All that to say weak winter competition Is offset by elite summer work.

If he gets major minutes for Team USA u18, are we in unchartered waters for a Dayton player?

Last edited by yakyak; 06-16-14 at 10:59 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-14, 10:51 PM
catscatscats catscatscats is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Where he was headed is irrelevant. How many state championships did Norris win? Don't be fooled by stats. Norris was a winner!
He was a winner but that doesn't mean he was better. Cole also played with other guys who had college basketball talent Franklin does not.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-14, 11:11 PM
SuburbanWunderkind SuburbanWunderkind is offline
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I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not from Franklin, nor am I from within the Dayton city limits. It's foolish to say Kennard isn't one of the best handful of players to play high school ball in the area in most of our lifetimes.

I like Norris Cole. I wanted UD to recruit him back when he had no D1 offers and UD had a need for PGs. I don't think anyone could see what he'd ultimately become, but it was clear he could play at a higher D1 level than the Horizon or even MAC. Many college coaches whiffed, none bigger than Brian Gregory, who worked literally down the street from Dunbar High and saw plenty of him while recruiting Benson. In some ways, being on those insanely loaded Dunbar teams may have hurt Cole as college recruit, because he never really got to dominate games as a featured player in ways Luke, Chris Wright, Brooks Hall, and even Juwan Staten and others could.

That said, Kennard is a better HS player by a WIDE margin. It's not close. You put Cook, Pogue, Anderson and a young Benson around Kennard, and they win the state title with me and 4 other yappi posters on the bench. They probably win the state title in all 50 states. Heck, they'd have been the 2nd or 3rd best team at the U18 tourney Kennard will play in later this week.

The best teammates Kennard had were two tall twins who were D2 college talents at best, and that was only his freshman year. The others are/were a baseball player and kids who will no doubt play the biggest basketball games of their lives in a franklin uniform. You can't compare the two programs when it comes to depth. It's insane to judge Luke the player by what Dunbar the program has accomplished. You're also doing a disservice to Dunbar, Thurgood Marshall, Alter and CJ by assuming great players should just win state on their own. You realize how hard it is to come out of Dayton D2? No one player can do it. You need 8 or 9 really good ones, at least. There is a reason Franklin runs out of steam in the second half vs Dunbar and Thurgood, and it sure isn't Luke. It's the other 9 names on the roster for each team.

Kennard is the best area HS player I have seen. That includes Daequan Cook, and I think very highly of Daequan Cook. I just think Luke is better. Others may not, and that's fine. It's certainly close. If you're under the age of 35 like I am, those two are the only two that should be at the top of your list. They stand above the rest.

College and pro career will be what they will be, I think he'll be very good at Duke and make a fine living for a decade or more somewhere in the world if not the NBA. But strictly as a HS talent, you won't find a better one from the Miami Valley than Luke Kennard.

Last edited by SuburbanWunderkind; 06-16-14 at 11:52 PM.
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  #30  
Old 06-16-14, 11:27 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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Originally Posted by KneeJerk96 View Post
I'm trying not to be critical of his game but since insist. Outside his elite shooting, Kennard has excellent court vision and a good rebounder, average handles, he cant create his own shot against a good defenders, he cant defend top level players, his competition level sucks which causes guys like you to think he is better than he actually is and he has no endurance every time I seen him play against pressure defense he is out of gas by halftime. Those are the reasons why I wouldn't place him in my top ten from a speaking from a talent perspective meaning his range of capabilities on the court.
So basically you see him one time a year in the sectional finals at UD when he's getting doubled teamed every possession. Meanwhile, top evaluators and college coaches see him play against the best of the best on the AAU circuit and have seen fit to consider him to be elite. He went toe-to-toe with a top-10 guy in the '14 class in Justin Jackson at FTH two years in a row. The guy made the 18U national team. He'll be a McDonald's All-American. And to recap his national rankings:

Scout - 19th (5-star)
Rivals - 13th (5-star)
ESPN - 31st (5-star)
24/7 - 16th (5-star)

But sure, continue to believe all of that's just because he racks up stats in the SWBL.
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