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  #91  
Old 11-12-17, 02:21 PM
SuperD1 SuperD1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
It was more of an exaggerated example but if you need more specifics, in Cincinnati you have Mason/Moeller, Moeller/Sycamore, any game combination of Colerain, Oak Hills, Elder and LaSalle. ST X is is the middle of all of them and isn't a real far travel to play any of them mentioned schools so far. McNick/Anderson/Turpin or Middletown/Fenwick. To be honest, traveling to any school in the Cincinnati area isn't much of a haul for any school.

Now let's compare those inter-city games to St X traveling to Vegas to play Bishop Gorman. You really going to say that's comparable financially?

I can't believe I'm even having this argument lol

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Louisville Trinity
Louisville St X
Indy Cathedral
Cincy St. X
Moeller
Elder
LaSalle
St. Edward
St Ignatius
Detroit central Catholic.

Three years of separation (just Cleveland, Akron Youngstown)

Hoban
SVSM
Walsh
Ursuline
Mooney
Benedictine


Five years

Lake Catholic
Padua
Holy Name
Elyria Catholic
Etc........

Start adding other schools from Columbus, Cincinnati, etc.
In 8 - 10 years they wouldn’t have to travel at all.
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  #92  
Old 11-12-17, 02:23 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperD1 View Post
Louisville Trinity
Louisville St X
Indy Cathedral
Cincy St. X
Moeller
Elder
LaSalle
St. Edward
St Ignatius
Detroit central Catholic.

Three years of separation (just cleveland, Akron Youngstown)

Hoban
SVSM
Ursuline
Mooney
Benedictine


Five years

Lake Catholic
Padua
Holy Name
Elyria Catholic
Etc........

Start adding other schools from Columbus, Cincinnati, etc. in 8 - 10 years they wouldn’t have to travel at all.
Sounds like it's all laid out for the Catholics. Not sure why they waste their time putting public schools on their schedules already.

I would like to point out you were talking about Catholic schools playing a national schedule and how that wouldn't be any sweat off anyone's backs, including families paying more for tuition. You seem to be nonchalantly moving the goal posts now, but I digress.

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  #93  
Old 11-12-17, 02:28 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
So the cost to play a team 5 miles away is the same as the cost to play one 1000 miles away? Maybe I am bad at math and economics. Please educate me.

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These teams already travel in the surrounding ~250-mile area, and can pretty easily get enough games that way— no “1000 mile” trips are necessary— and probably, X could get enough games with just ~100-mile trips: Cathedral in Indy, Louisville St. X and Trinity (all 100-mile trips), plus X would probably play a home-and-away schedule against its 3 local GCL rivals (decades ago, they used to regularly play each other twice/season)— that’s 9 games without one trip longer than 2 hours...which is ALL that schools used to play (both HS and COLLEGE) years ago... (though I am sure X would keep the bi-annual 250-mile trip to Cleveland to play Ig, as that has become, in a short time, an important school/team tradition.)

But what you fail to understand is how insignificant the revenues (and the operating costs) of these athletic programs are, in the larger scheme of the schools’ budgets— and if it became an issue, X (which does not currently charge an activities fee to participate in ANY sport) could easily implement a nominal charge in the low triple digits (e.g.- ~$100), and cover a lot of the costs— X could also choose not to carry (and TRAVEL WITH) well over 100 players each season— especially when no more than about 30-40 players actually ever get in a game. You are WAY overestimating how hard it would be for these schools to adapt to the changed environment that you describe.
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  #94  
Old 11-12-17, 02:30 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
These teams already travel in the surrounding ~250-mile area, and can pretty easily get enough games that way— no “1000 mile” trips are necessary— and probably, X could get enough games with just ~100-mile trips: Cathedral in Indy, Louisville St. X and Trinity (all 100-mile trips), plus X would probably play a home-and-away schedule against its 3 local GCL rivals (decades ago, they used to regularly play each other twice/season)— that’s 9 games without one trip longer than 2 hours...which is ALL that schools used to play (both HS and COLLEGE) years ago... (though I am sure X would keep the bi-annual 250-mile trip to Cleveland to play Ig, as that has become, in a short time, an important school/team tradition.)

But what you fail to understand is how insignificant the revenues (and the operating costs) of these athletic programs are, in the larger scheme of the schools’ budgets— and if it became an issue, X (which does not currently charge an activities fee to participate in ANY sport) could easily implement a nominal charge in the low triple digits (e.g.- ~$100), and cover a lot of the costs— X could also choose not to carry (and TRAVEL WITH) well over 100 players each season— especially when no more than about 30-40 players actually ever get in a game. You are WAY overestimating how hard it would be for these schools to adapt to the changed environment that you describe.
Then do it. If it's so much more beneficial there is no one stopping any Catholic school from ever scheduling a public school. There is no one saying they HAVE to play in the OHSAA playoffs. They can go travel the world if they think it's better for them.

Go back to the original argument, that the Catholics don't need the publics for games. There are barely any for them to give them any competition anyway. So my basic argument is go then. And if you aren't going, then why? I'd say money IS a factor. You seem to think otherwise. So if that isn't why they don't leave on their own then why? Are they just playing public school as their religious charity to the community?

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  #95  
Old 11-12-17, 02:32 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I dare you to compare the cost to play for ANY youth football organization in Ohio to playing for a select baseball team. Even the cheapest of the select teams, that really aren't anything more than glorified rec/community teams, will cost you $400-500 to play. Find a football team that costs that much to play. Damn, most football costs you less than 100 to get on the field.

And yes, participation in football is already declining. Would you like to add to that by increasing the costs for kids to play?

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Those football costs are not real/true— they are ALL heavily subsidized by a variety of boosters/sponsors— without those sources of subsidization, football would (especially because of the vastly higher injury risk, driving liability insurance) would be FAAAARRR higher than baseball— or any other sport except hockey, for that matter.
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  #96  
Old 11-12-17, 02:36 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Those football costs are not real/true— they are ALL heavily subsidized by a variety of boosters/sponsors— without those sources of subsidization, football would (especially because of the vastly higher injury risk, driving liability insurance) would be FAAAARRR higher than baseball— or any other sport except hockey, for that matter.
And baseball teams are subsidized by sponsors as well. You're still missing the point. If you create an environment where football costs even more to play than it already does you WILL lose players. More than football is already starting to lose. His idea was to do just that.

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  #97  
Old 11-12-17, 02:42 PM
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MentorGrad2002 MentorGrad2002 is offline
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Colerain & Mentor: Whats the secret?

Privates already recruit. They just don't do it out in the open. The threats of them stealing all our kids have no weight. Every good player isn't going to them if they separate

The privates are terrified of separation Their playoffs would be awful. The lower level privates would have no shot in any sports. And they love racking up those smaller schools trophys against farm school publics

Meanwhile the publics would go on with the same setup across all sports an and all divisions

Would the privates possibly take a few more public players ? Maybe. But we'd just ignore the privates completely and pretend like they don't exist

The publics would be fine. Dont kid yourself

It's 2 separate rule books for publics vs private. That's a fact. Don't really care either way if they separate though honestly


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  #98  
Old 11-12-17, 02:42 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Those football costs are not real/true— they are ALL heavily subsidized by a variety of boosters/sponsors— without those sources of subsidization, football would (especially because of the vastly higher injury risk, driving liability insurance) would be FAAAARRR higher than baseball— or any other sport except hockey, for that matter.
Fyi, the only "true" costs that matters is what comes out of a parents pocket. No parent writes a check for $100 for their kid to pay football and says "this is crap that it really costs $400 for my kid but the organization has a bunch of sponsors!" No, all any parent cares about is what they actually pay.

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  #99  
Old 11-12-17, 02:43 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
It was more of an exaggerated example but if you need more specifics, in Cincinnati you have Mason/Moeller, Moeller/Sycamore, any game combination of Colerain, Oak Hills, Elder and LaSalle. ST X is is the middle of all of them and isn't a real far travel to play any of them mentioned schools so far. McNick/Anderson/Turpin or Middletown/Fenwick. To be honest, traveling to any school in the Cincinnati area isn't much of a haul for any school.

Now let's compare those inter-city games to St X traveling to Vegas to play Bishop Gorman. You really going to say that's comparable financially?

I can't believe I'm even having this argument lol

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I can’t either.
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  #100  
Old 11-12-17, 02:44 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Then do it. If it's so much more beneficial there is no one stopping any Catholic school from ever scheduling a public school. There is no one saying they HAVE to play in the OHSAA playoffs. They can go travel the world if they think it's better for them.

Go back to the original argument, that the Catholics don't need the publics for games. There are barely any for them to give them any competition anyway. So my basic argument is go then. And if you aren't going, then why? I'd say money IS a factor. You seem to think otherwise. So if that isn't why they don't leave on their own then why? Are they just playing public school as their religious charity to the community?

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We’re not the ones complaining.
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  #101  
Old 11-12-17, 02:55 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
We’re not the ones complaining.
But he was complaining. Thus my entire response. Again, he makes it sound like not only woupd it be no sweat for wberg Catholic school to move to a national schedule, but it would be better for them as well. I have to respectfully disagree, and also ask if tjat is the case then why are they bothering to play public schools? Charity?

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  #102  
Old 11-12-17, 03:19 PM
AmpipeBDogs AmpipeBDogs is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
Privates already recruit. They just don't do it out in the open. The threats of them stealing all our kids have no weight. Every good player isn't going to them if they separate

The privates are terrified of separation Their playoffs would be awful. The lower level privates would have no shot in any sports. And they love racking up those smaller schools trophys against farm school publics

Meanwhile the publics would go on with the same setup across all sports an and all divisions

Would the privates possibly take a few more public players ? Maybe. But we'd just ignore the privates completely and pretend like they don't exist

The publics would be fine. Dont kid yourself

It's 2 separate rule books for publics vs private. That's a fact. Don't really care either way if they separate though honestly


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You do care if they separate. You have been complaining for years about the advantages private schools have, and the recruiting that the schools do.

And i agree we have many advantages and should stop saying we don't.
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  #103  
Old 11-12-17, 03:32 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperD1 View Post
Basketball is a completely different animal. One great player can elevate an entire team. As great as Shaun Crawford, Pat Ryan and many others were. None of them were going to win a championship on an otherwise average team.

The financial burden would not be all that great. ESPN, Nike, Adidas, UA and other companies have already shown an interest in elite level HSFB.
I don’t have all the answers but t really wouldn’t be that complicated.

BTW, X and St Ignatius do allow transfers.

5 transfers since 2000 on the X football team; 3 from out of town Jesuit schools, 1 from Moeller[ brother was at X] and 1 I don't know where he came from.
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  #104  
Old 11-12-17, 03:40 PM
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Colerain & Mentor: Whats the secret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmpipeBDogs View Post
You do care if they separate. You have been complaining for years about the advantages private schools have, and the recruiting that the schools do.



And i agree we have many advantages and should stop saying we don't.


You call it complaining because you benefit. I call it stating facts. I'm torn if I want separation. Don't care if it happens. Am not clamouring for it though either

The privates and publics play by two different rule books. It's why you guys win 9 out of 10 years with 5 schools of 72 or something winning those. It's pretty obvious

But I dont buy the doom and gloom for publics if this happens. Secretly private school guys know they benefit. And the smaller school privates don't want to deal with getting clobbered every year by mini colleges

Publics would run the same way through all divisions if this happens. Wouldn't miss you guys at all. They'd all be fine.


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  #105  
Old 11-12-17, 03:45 PM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Heh!— funny to see/hear this plainly acknowledged by a (likely) Colerain supporter— I’ve always suspected this— and that it was happening through more than happenstance (in other words, these kids that were ending up in Colerain’s district— who just HAPPENED to be really good football players— were getting there through more than just luck— I’ve always suspected that some set of Colerain supporters— youth coaches, parents, alumni, and/or coaches— have been strongly “encouraging” these good football players in surrounding public school districts to find a way to transfer inside the Colerain district’s boundaries— but ALL we ever hear is “Woe is me! I’m poor lil’ Colerain, that just has to take whatever meager assortment of mediocre football players that washes up on my doorstep— and I have to compete against all of these Big, Rich, Awful Catholic schools— who all recruit away my best intra-district players!”

I’ve never believed that story for a minute— and I’ve been pretty convinced that it’s more than coincidence that one of the largest public HS’s in the state (Oak Hills) and, in fact, MOST of the other public school teams that surround Colerain (e.g.- Aiken, Western Hills, Taylor, Ross, Finneytown, North College Hill, etc.) have generally been pretty terrible— since Colerain became really good— though it wasn’t always that way... and yet, all we hear about is the alleged recruiting at X (and LaSalle— not going to argue that one), despite the fact that the student academic profiles at those surrounding public schools are much closer to Colerain’s than they are to X.... I think I KNOW where the real “athletic recruiting” is going on— and it AIN’T at X... Recruiter Extraordinaire Kerry Coombs started it 25+ years ago— and it’s never stopped since!
You could go to ANY public school and you will see students transferring not necessarily getting recruited.

Privates do actively recruit and offer $$$ and other assistance to get the kid they want.
Now as far as public school students changing schools some do it for sports others for other opportunities or education.

I only know of one impact player that made a switch over the past 10+ years for Colerain Football (unlike those that may leave the district for other schools).

Generally, you may see one or two a year that finds their way into a district that helps make the weakest link (so to say) get stronger. The kid may not even make varsity but increasing bottom up talent results in better practices, better preparation with numbers and quality participating in these practices.

A lot of people don't even know all a family needs to do is claim an in district address or, have the kid go to a Butler Tech program or Great Oaks program and use open enroll in the school of choice to get in the door. I have seen this happen in several sports at several schools over the years. If the parents can ensure transportation little is ever questioned. Over the years I know of Colerain kids going to Oak Hills, FF, Hamilton or Ross, Kids from Lebanon finding their way to Mason or Kings or, going from Mason to Kings, Amelia to GE...Anderson to Turpin or the other way around... again it happens at all schools.
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  #106  
Old 11-12-17, 03:56 PM
AmpipeBDogs AmpipeBDogs is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
You call it complaining because you benefit. I call it stating facts. I'm torn if I want separation. Don't care if it happens. Am not clamouring for it though either

The privates and publics play by two different rule books. It's why you guys win 9 out of 10 years with 5 schools of 72 or something winning those. It's pretty obvious

But I dont buy the doom and gloom for publics if this happens. Secretly private school guys know they benefit. And the smaller school privates don't want to deal with getting clobbered every year by mini colleges

Publics would run the same way through all divisions if this happens. Wouldn't miss you guys at all. They'd all be fine.


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You do care, otherwise you wouldn't have posted for years about the private schools. People who don't care don't take the time to post "facts," none of which some of us have ever denied.


Or "secretly know we benefit." It's not a secret.

Your own school has won the last two against Ignatius in the playoffs and just beat Eds, yet you still compiain.
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  #107  
Old 11-12-17, 04:02 PM
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It's not complaining. It's calling it like it is. I hate how private schools do things. That's not the same as wanting separation. I've said I don't care. I've never pushed for it. But I wouldn't care if it happens

It is funny to me though how you can have teams operating under two differing rule books playing for the same title. But it is what it is


Just because mentor has risen above to compete doesn't mean that it's fair


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  #108  
Old 11-12-17, 04:13 PM
ColerainWinsAgain ColerainWinsAgain is offline
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definatle
Well, it's definitely not about the academics because that attempt wasn't even close.
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  #109  
Old 11-12-17, 05:57 PM
SuperD1 SuperD1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Sounds like it's all laid out for the Catholics. Not sure why they waste their time putting public schools on their schedules already.

I would like to point out you were talking about Catholic schools playing a national schedule and how that wouldn't be any sweat off anyone's backs, including families paying more for tuition. You seem to be nonchalantly moving the goal posts now, but I digress.

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Go back and read my original post. The trickle down effect in smaller Catholic schools is what I was getting at.

I want the boys to play a national schedule and would gladly spend some extra money for it.
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  #110  
Old 11-12-17, 05:59 PM
SuperD1 SuperD1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ColerainWinsAgain View Post
Well, it's definitely not about the academics because that attempt wasn't even close.
Wow, you found some weird auto-correct disaster. Even kids from Colerain know definitely ends with an y or maybe an i.
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  #111  
Old 11-12-17, 05:59 PM
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I lived for 20 years next to Colerain hs. The recruiting claims and underdog chip on the Colerain shoulder gets old. Just about anyone in northwest District that goes private HS also went to private grade schools. From the lesser economically affluent private grade scools like OLG Colerain actually gets a very large number of kids. If a private school gives away aid for a full ride it only means that the cost to go private or Colerain is the now the same so how does a private have an advantage? Colerain also gets its fair share of kids jumping over from NCH and a northwest HS area kid can go to Colerain if he declares in the 8th grade if I'm not mistaken. Colerain coaches got busted a few years back recruiting those kids. The fact is that a kid in colerains district has a hell of a lot of good choices. X, LS, Badin, Colerain and on the edges Roger Bacon and elder. So Colerain will lose some kids to privates because there are so many good choices. No different than LS losing kids from OLG to Colerain. Colerain is a good choice and it's free.

The key for Colerain this weekend is the same as it every year. Play mistake free football. Going back to the early 2000's Colerain loses to teams they should beat because they make more mistakes. i don't know if the players get flustered or the coaches get flustered but if the team really thinks they belong there they'll win. Colerain needs to lose the underdog mentality and go into these games with the attitude they're the top dog and X has to prove otherwise.
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  #112  
Old 11-12-17, 06:01 PM
SuperD1 SuperD1 is offline
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Anyone think St. Xavier would have a problem with a Catholics vs Convicts shirt in royal and red?


That’s a joke BTW.
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  #113  
Old 11-12-17, 06:04 PM
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Wow, you found some weird auto-correct disaster. Even kids from Colerain know definitely ends with an y or maybe an i.
What word autocorrects to “definatle?”
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  #114  
Old 11-12-17, 06:07 PM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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I want the boys to play a national schedule and would gladly spend some extra money for it.
You likely wouldn’t get your money’s worth. There isn’t a program in Ohio who would be consistently competitive playing a “national schedule.”

Last edited by fish82; 11-12-17 at 06:22 PM.
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  #115  
Old 11-12-17, 06:21 PM
ColerainWinsAgain ColerainWinsAgain is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperD1 View Post
Wow, you found some weird auto-correct disaster. Even kids from Colerain know definitely ends with an y or maybe an i.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but auto-correct only corrects to a correctly spelled word or words that you have specifically used before and overrode the auto-correct feature. You actually thought it was spelled like that at least one time or it wouldn't have happened. Also, it wasn't the letter the word ends in, it was a complete train wreck of an attempt at spelling.
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  #116  
Old 11-12-17, 06:27 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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I don't care for Mentor's Triv for numerous reasons, e.g., putting an obviosly concussed kid back in the game, but I do admire his go-for-broke attitude. It might stem from the overtime loss to Hilliard a decade or so ago, when he did the convention thing of kicking the PATs, when the Hilliard coach went fir the two to win it. I wish Kyle had that gutsy feeling. In the overtime time I was screaming for Kyle to go for two to win the game, giving the ball toMcVey who the Cards could not stop, only to have him kick the pat. Then Mentor got the ball and I, along with everyone else, knew that Trubisky would do something to get the two and win the game.
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  #117  
Old 11-12-17, 07:31 PM
ColerainWinsAgain ColerainWinsAgain is offline
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Also, as for the main point of the thread, all of the public schools that remain on top for extended periods of time can attribute their success to Super Male Vitality available exclusively through the infowars store.
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  #118  
Old 11-12-17, 07:53 PM
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What word autocorrects to “definatle?”
A fair question. I don’t know what happened.
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  #119  
Old 11-12-17, 07:55 PM
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You likely wouldn’t get your money’s worth. There isn’t a program in Ohio who would be consistently competitive playing a “national schedule.”
1. Bullocks
2. Total bullocks
3. Complete and total bullocks
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  #120  
Old 11-12-17, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ColerainWinsAgain View Post
Also, as for the main point of the thread, all of the public schools that remain on top for extended periods of time can attribute their success to Super Male Vitality available exclusively through the infowars store.
Oh, you made a funny. At the expense of Alex Jones no less.
I can appreciate that.
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