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  #31  
Old 06-15-17, 03:34 PM
JediMaster JediMaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Lots of ludicrous, speculative statements on this thread. Trying to predict where players will be in 2019, and which teams have 'no chance' is like trying to catch smoke in a net. Salary cap takes a major jump next year and players will be moving like crazy.

But my guess is that LeBron stays in Cavs uniform as long as Gilbert keeps being supportive of the championship chase. Dump most of the overpaid old guys in supporting roles (JR, Deron, Frye, both Jones, Korver). I say keep Shumpert. Plays hard every possession. Find some young hungry wing guys that can defend and hit the occasional 3. Find a young athletic big who can defend and rebound and backup Tristan.
By dumping most of the overpaid players, the Cavs can't really expect to get anything in return for straight-up trades. As it's been pointed to, the Cavs only hope to compete with the Warriors is to get a true superstar 2-way player like Paul George who can defend Kevin Durant or even Klay Thompson for stretches when LeBron isn't the primary. There are a lot of young players in the league who could still develop into that type of player (i.e. Brandon Ingram), but those players are for the most part going to be safe-guarded by their respective teams in hopes that in 4-5 years when LeBron's reign finally comes to an end in the east and the Warriors inevitably fall apart as all modern super-teams do, that their current young talent will be the all-nba players of the future.

If the Cavs can't retool (a must), then I wouldn't expect LeBron to stay put if he's still chasing ghosts...

Someone who the Cavs can focus on (if getting another superstar via trade is out of the question this summer) is the Heat's Justise Winslow. Especially if the Heat can find a way to land Gordon Hayward this off-season, but Winslow is a reasonable get who can contribute some big defensive minutes and the best part is, Cavs wouldn't necessarily have to deal Love to wind up getting him.
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  #32  
Old 06-15-17, 06:00 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Why would the Heat give up Winslow? And what do the Cavs have to offer them?
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  #33  
Old 06-15-17, 08:32 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Everything I've read is the Heat are very happy with Winslow and very much see him as a part of their future. They are trading him for the scrape heaps Cleveland has to offer.
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  #34  
Old 06-15-17, 08:56 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Based on everything I've read on this topic, the yappi experts seem split on if James will bolt for another team. Therefore I give it 50/50 odds of happening. I hope it does happen, as I'd like to root for him again.
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  #35  
Old 06-15-17, 10:25 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Between Griffin and LBJ, they saddled the team with a lot of dead weight and a few bad contracts. They got one championship out of it, and so far...three Finals trips, so it has not been a failure, but GS is built to sustain their run, while the Cavs are not. They will have to get creative to win another.
I'm not sure I get the love for Griffin. He's good at closing a deal on a star in decline, spending from a wide-open checkbook with little regard for luxury tax by the owner.

If we had any draft picks left in LeBron's prime years, I might advocate for lining up a better judge of young talent as GM....
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  #36  
Old 06-15-17, 10:41 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Woj is probably the most connected reporter in the NBA, if he says it's a possibility, it almost certainly is.

I think he leaves after next year. Cleveland loses to Boston in the ECF after they add Hayward or Butler.

Other than Kyrie & Thompson, the rest of the Cavs are either clearly regressing(Love, Smith, Shumpert) or ready for retirement(Jefferson, Frye, Williams.) They've backed themselves into a cap situation where they have little to no flexibility to add a significant free agent, and their trade-able assets aren't in demand. They also have virtually no 1st rd draft picks for the foreseeable future.

He will have a decision of either riding out his career as a 2nd banana in the East and watching the Warriors and Celtics battle in the finals for the foreseeable future. Or he can try and add himself to a young team who's close to getting over the hump.

Who he goes to depends on how some of these young guys develop. If they all pan out to their maximum potential, a Lakers lineup in 2019 of
Ingram
Randle
Lebron
Russell
Ball

is pretty formidable.

That said, I don't think at least half those guys will end up being much more than serviceable players.

The Clippers I don't see being in a good position. Their big 3 is either going to get broken up or be a shell of its former self by then.

San Antonio is always a possibility for any big free agent, but I'm not that familiar with their cap situation to know if that would even be possible in 2 seasons. I'm sure he respects Pop, and teaming with Kawhi would be an insane combo.

If he stays in Cleveland, it will strictly be a decision about his brand and/or a sense of loyalty. Because they do not offer the best chance to win a title past 2018.
Uhhhh, he really just said it's possible. A meteorite falling on your head when you cross a street is also possible. Creative writing.

A SA uni gets him three titles in a row if that's what he wants above all else. He can play for whatever he wants.

Its a shame the Cavs drafted/developed so poorly since selecting James initially. Really, the whole draft history. It's been putrid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevel..._draft_history
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  #37  
Old 06-16-17, 07:08 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Yeah the Cavs have been one of the worst drafting teams by far since then. Wiggins: given. Irving: given. Lebron: given. Waiters was bad in Cleveland. Bennett was just God awful (although I didn't hate the pick at the time). Got rid of Crowder and Green before they had a chance to do anything. Hickson was solid for the #19 pick for a few years as were Gibson and Brown for their draft positions but none would be considered great picks. Thomspon isn't bad but not worth the #4 pick.

They suck at identifying talent.
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  #38  
Old 06-16-17, 07:19 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I'm not sure I get the love for Griffin. He's good at closing a deal on a star in decline, spending from a wide-open checkbook with little regard for luxury tax by the owner.

If we had any draft picks left in LeBron's prime years, I might advocate for lining up a better judge of young talent as GM....
He's been a GM for 3 full seasons now. Off the top of my head he has:
- manufactured, with the persuasion from LeBron, the trade of Wiggins and co. for Love. Wiggins was the only real piece in that trade. The fact the Cavs are in win now mode, that's a fantastic trade
- Turn 10mpg, 2.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg Varejao into Channing Frye who had some big moments in the finals win last year
- Turned Dion Waiters, Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and a 2nd round pick into JR Smith, Iman Shumpert and a 1st round pick.
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  #39  
Old 06-20-17, 06:14 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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What is the battle between Gilbert and Griffin,we see who won?
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  #40  
Old 06-20-17, 06:19 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Get ready for Melo! Comic Sans Gilbert's 1st choice Chauncey Billups suggested trading Love for Melo. lol Things were going too well for Cleveland there for a few years. Gilbert got confused and mucked it up.

But in all seriousness, apparently Gilbert didn't consult LeBron, who was advocating for a Griffin extension, before moving on from Griffin who has multiple teams trying to sign him. Makes me think there's less of a chance he stays in Cleveland. Who wants to play for a guy that just fired one of the best GMs?
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  #41  
Old 06-20-17, 07:31 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Mr. Big Shot is probably not the answer, any more than this was - http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/release...v-trade-150107

Those two picks gone to please Blatt could maybe have supplied the difference-makers today. Never know......
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  #42  
Old 06-20-17, 07:38 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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If LeBron doesn't take less money and Durant actually does take less, whoever comes in is going to have a tough time getting past GS. If I was interviewing to be Griffin's replacement, I'd have to get around to asking that one. Even if one was told LeBron will do the Brady and take less to win, it's a leap of faith without LBJ signed long term.


They've mortgaged the future trying to win. The next guy is going to get the blame. It doesn't look like an attractive job today. Gilbert blew it. Maybe Griff was going to leave no matter what. His stock wasn't likely to go higher for a while, so he would have wanted big money and a long term to stay.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 06-20-17 at 09:12 AM..
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  #43  
Old 06-20-17, 08:33 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Good luck to Griffin. I don't envy the position of his successor as the future was sold to succeed in the present. It got them a championship and two East championships, so it probably won't be seen as a bad deal in the long term.

I thought Griffin did okay, but I'm not ready to annoint him given that he had a full cupboard of picks and disposable contracts when he came in, along with Gilbert's open checkbook. You should be able to build something by trading first round picks over 3 years.
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  #44  
Old 06-20-17, 09:38 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Has the "let's hire a former player to be the GM/President and they'll learn on the job" strategy ever worked in any sport?

This basically confirms Lebron is gone. Griffin likely wanted to build the roster for a potential Lebron departure in 2018(he implied as much at the Sloan conference) and Gilbert is still in "we can win the title next year!" mode because he's an idiot who acts on emotion(see the embarrassing comic sans letter.)

RIP Cleveland sports.
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  #45  
Old 06-20-17, 09:29 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Between Griffin and LBJ, they saddled the team with a lot of dead weight and a few bad contracts. They got one championship out of it, and so far...three Finals trips, so it has not been a failure, but GS is built to sustain their run, while the Cavs are not. They will have to get creative to win another.
Cavs aren't going away. It's a relatively young roster outside of the bench and locked up for multiple years.

Cavs routed the Warriors in game 4 and were right there in game 3 and 5. They finish it in game 3 it's a completely different series. GS is not unbeatable. Heck if Zaza doesn't go Karate Kid on Kawhi they might not have made it out of the West.

This chicken little nonsense coming from Cleveland "fans" is silly.
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  #46  
Old 06-20-17, 09:36 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Has the "let's hire a former player to be the GM/President and they'll learn on the job" strategy ever worked in any sport?

This basically confirms Lebron is gone. Griffin likely wanted to build the roster for a potential Lebron departure in 2018(he implied as much at the Sloan conference) and Gilbert is still in "we can win the title next year!" mode because he's an idiot who acts on emotion(see the embarrassing comic sans letter.)

RIP Cleveland sports.
Speaking of an idiot acting on emotion...

Cavs absolutely will be in contention for the title next year and no reason for that to not be the goal.
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  #47  
Old 06-20-17, 09:48 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Cavs absolutely will be in contention for the title next year
They don't have the ability to make a move that can close the gap on Golden State. The finals were not competitive despite what Cavs fans may want to think. 3 of GS's 4 wins were comfortable and 2 of them were blowouts. Their only hope is an injury to Durant or Curry.
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  #48  
Old 06-20-17, 09:56 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
They don't have the ability to make a move that can close the gap on Golden State. The finals were not competitive despite what Cavs fans may want to think. 3 of GS's 4 wins were comfortable and 2 of them were blowouts. Their only hope is an injury to Durant or Curry.


GS only hope was an injury to Love and Irving in 15, and injuries to Kawhi and Parker this year. Karma says they are due.

The Cavs can absolutely win the title without needing injuries. The difference isn't Durant and Curry...Lebron and Kyrie cancel them out.
The difference was lack of production from the bench and some execution mistakes. Both things which are correctable.
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  #49  
Old 06-20-17, 10:12 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
The difference isn't Durant and Curry...Lebron and Kyrie cancel them out.
I'd say Draymond & Klay vs Love & JR is a bit of a difference too but okay.

Quote:
The difference was lack of production from the bench
How do they fix that? They're handcuffed due to the salary cap. Their only move is to trade Love for George/Butler, which does improve their starting lineup and the matchup problems GS gives to some extent, but does nothing to improve their bench.
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  #50  
Old 06-21-17, 08:38 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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lol at Cleveland firing the city's best GM ever
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  #51  
Old 06-21-17, 09:11 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I'm curious to see how this plays out. I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was planning for life after LeBron and Dan Gilbert didn't want any of that, and I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was gunning for one last run and that Gilbert didn't want to continue paying out the nose because Cleveland has their championship.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-17, 10:13 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
lol at Cleveland firing the city's best GM ever
I haven't really dug out any truly pertinent info, but I haven't heard much for mass consumption, either. I'm hearing a lot of radio fools and their callers demonizing Gilbert, but none of them have real details.

How much and how long did Griffin want ? Was it really an acrimonious dismissal, or did Gilbert merely give the man complete freedom to move on and cut a new deal ? As I said earlier, Griffin's stock will probably never be higher. I'm sure he wants to capitalize now. The last thing he wants is to keep making short term moves to win now and have a contract with Gilbert run out during a rebuild that hasn't shown results yet. Sometimes people's individual goals don't align. Nothing wrong with that.

Then, is there an elephant in the room not being really discussed anywhere ? Another impediment to a long-term contract ? Are big, faceless insurance companies the only ones permitted to "discriminate" on the basis of health history ?

Quote:
Griffin balanced it all the past couple of seasons while dealing with his third cancer scare since first being diagnosed in 2006. While he isn't currently battling cancer, there were still long blood treatment sessions every month as a result of his previous chemotherapy.
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  #53  
Old 06-21-17, 10:17 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm curious to see how this plays out. I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was planning for life after LeBron and Dan Gilbert didn't want any of that, and I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was gunning for one last run and that Gilbert didn't want to continue paying out the nose because Cleveland has their championship.
I've heard the same.

Those two notions seem poles apart to me, leading me to the conclusion that there is quite a lot of guessing going on.
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  #54  
Old 06-21-17, 10:26 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I haven't really dug out any truly pertinent info, but I haven't heard much for mass consumption, either. I'm hearing a lot of radio fools and their callers demonizing Gilbert, but none of them have real details.

How much and how long did Griffin want ? Was it really an acrimonious dismissal, or did Gilbert merely give the man complete freedom to cut a new deal ? As I said earlier, Griffin's stock will probably never be higher. I'm sure he wants to capitalize now. The last thing he wants is to keep making short term moves to win now and have a contract with Gilbert run out during a rebuild that hasn't shown results yet. Sometimes people's individual goals don't align. Nothing wrong with that.

Then, is there an elephant in the room not being really discussed anywhere ? Another impediment to a long-term contract ? Are big, faceless insurance companies the only ones permitted to "discriminate" on the basis of health history ?
Sure, but that doesn't negate the fact Gilbert let Griffin go nearly 2 weeks early, days before the draft and while he was working on a deal to land Butler or PG, both of whom will undoubtedly be traded this offseason or by the trade deadline.

Also doesn't negate the fact Gilbert screwed Griffin over. There were 7 GM openings this offseason. All have been filled. I mean hell, Gilbert denied the Hawks request to interview Griffin just 4 weeks ago. Gilbert was an astronomical azz in 2010, he's an astronomical azz in 2017.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-17, 10:40 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Sure, but that doesn't negate the fact Gilbert let Griffin go nearly 2 weeks early, days before the draft and while he was working on a deal to land Butler or PG, both of whom will undoubtedly be traded this offseason or by the trade deadline.

Also doesn't negate the fact Gilbert screwed Griffin over. There were 7 GM openings this offseason. All have been filled. I mean hell, Gilbert denied the Hawks request to interview Griffin just 4 weeks ago. Gilbert was an astronomical azz in 2010, he's an astronomical azz in 2017.
That^ is my only real, possible ugly spot in the whole thing, given that much isn't public knowledge. I can't decide just how bad it is. One should certainly understand Gilbert not wanting the distraction in a Finals run, though. No doubt about that. Tough situation.

The crazy thing is, of course, that it seems that Gilbert has done the same thing to Griff that LeBron did to him in not making his "Decision" until all the FA replacements were signed that year. I guess if they were gonna tank for lottery balls anyway, it didn't matter. LeBron probably knew he was gone a week or two after he and slimey Riley had their little meeting up in the nosebleeds at the All-Star Dunk Contest before he left. When did Gilbert know he was letting Griff go, and when did he tell him ?
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  #56  
Old 06-21-17, 10:53 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Normally, I'd agree re: the finals run and not wanting distractions. But at that point, the GMs job is done. It all comes down to coaching and player execution. No reason to not let Griffin interview.
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  #57  
Old 06-21-17, 02:12 PM
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Cavs are a totally mess right now.
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  #58  
Old 06-21-17, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by brian1227 View Post
Cavs are a totally mess right now.
This cracks me up ... no one knew anything about David Griffith before he was hired ... it seems like he did a decent job ... no one really know who or how the next GM will do ... the next one may be better ... just because they parted ways with a GM does not necessarily mean they are a mess.
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  #59  
Old 06-21-17, 03:03 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Jimmy Butler scared away from the Cavs?-

http://nypost.com/2017/06/21/jimmy-b...utter-turmoil/
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  #60  
Old 06-21-17, 11:20 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm curious to see how this plays out. I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was planning for life after LeBron and Dan Gilbert didn't want any of that, and I've heard reputable people say they think Griffin was gunning for one last run and that Gilbert didn't want to continue paying out the nose because Cleveland has their championship.
Life after Lebron...what in 5-6 years when he retires?

Satisfied with one title? Get the hell out of pro sports if that's the case.
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