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  #31  
Old 10-23-18, 09:36 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
during the playoffs they showed the top 7-8 FA pitching signees from last year and only 1 was even close to worth it and the others were just bad.

Spending money on SP isn't necessarily the panacea we are seeking
I'd agree. It has to be the right pitchers.... 29 or younger with track record of success and probably an injury in the past to keep the price a bit lower. They would probably need to be a "risk" to sign because of past injuries.

Trading prospects might be a better path to get a bona fide #1.

There's always the Yankee model.... Bash home runs and have average pitching.
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  #32  
Old 10-23-18, 10:18 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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The Yankees throw a few more dollars at their roster then the Reds or most other clubs are able to do.
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  #33  
Old 10-23-18, 10:41 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
The Yankees throw a few more dollars at their roster then the Reds or most other clubs are able to do.
Of course they do.

My point was maybe the Reds should focus in on improving their lineup if the pitching is out of their price range.

The Reds had the 4th worst outfield production in baseball last season.
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  #34  
Old 10-23-18, 12:12 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Lets face it, this organization isn't going to get to where we want it to be until they scout, draft and develop their talent much better.

Its boring, its slow, its not glamorous but that is the fact of the matter.

We can talk about trades and FA signings all we want but until they do the first points then the rest of moot.

Once they get to a certain level then maybe a good trade or FA acquisition will get them over the hump but until then it is just not happening.


There should be no golden cows in their minor league system that they need to keep protecting when they don't peform. Milwoogies new GM overturned their roster by getting rid of 22-25 of the 40 man within 3 seasons. He acquired talent any way he could and those taking up the spots on the 40 man had to produce or get the hell out and no longer be protected.
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  #35  
Old 10-23-18, 02:21 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Lets face it, this organization isn't going to get to where we want it to be until they scout, draft and develop their talent much better.

Its boring, its slow, its not glamorous but that is the fact of the matter.

We can talk about trades and FA signings all we want but until they do the first points then the rest of moot.

Once they get to a certain level then maybe a good trade or FA acquisition will get them over the hump but until then it is just not happening.


There should be no golden cows in their minor league system that they need to keep protecting when they don't peform. Milwoogies new GM overturned their roster by getting rid of 22-25 of the 40 man within 3 seasons. He acquired talent any way he could and those taking up the spots on the 40 man had to produce or get the hell out and no longer be protected.

Which is why I suggested trades of premier assets (Hunter Greene) for proven big leaguers.

No one should be untouchable.
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  #36  
Old 10-24-18, 06:56 AM
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The Reds have to ask and answer one basic question first. "Are we trying to make the playoffs next season, or are we looking down the road?" Once that question is answered concretely, you can plan your actions.

Unfortunately there has been wavering in the answer every year for the last several years, and we see the results.

if you want to run for the playoffs next season:
- Re-sign Scooter, and you have a top 2 or 3 infield in the NL
- trade Billy for whatever you can get and save that salary. This says it all "The Reds had the 4th worst outfield production in baseball last season."
- sign 2 FA starting pitchers, the type of guys Indiandad describes
- tell Homer he is long relief in the bullpen or in AAA. He will be the guy pitching if a starter gets rocked early and we are down 6 runs early. Or push him down the stairs in spring training and get him on the DL for the season.
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  #37  
Old 10-24-18, 07:03 AM
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They aren’t going to make a run for the playoffs next year. Geez, come on. It’s a process that requires them to cross over from bad to mediocrity to decent to contending. They are a good 3-4 years away from being a playoff team.
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  #38  
Old 10-24-18, 09:51 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Well after reading many of the posts on here, I can see why my views go against many, at least on this thread.

So my first question...who did you think the Reds would and could hire? Did you honestly think Joe Girardi was going to be the Reds manager??? The Reds are at least a few years away from contending, and they simply are not going to throw crazy money at a person who has nothing directly to do with winning on a daily basis. The baseball manager has as little to do with the team now than at anytime in the history of baseball. Baseball if front office exexts and analytics, shifts and multiple relief pitchers. Heck, Ryan Madson and Dillon Florio pitch in the postseason for the Dodgers.

That aside, I like the David Bell hiring. He's got a good reputation in the game, he's young enough to relate to the younger players and he's not going anywhere.

Now, the Reds can turn to what pitchers we can bring in here.
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  #39  
Old 10-24-18, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Well after reading many of the posts on here, I can see why my views go against many, at least on this thread.

So my first question...who did you think the Reds would and could hire? Did you honestly think Joe Girardi was going to be the Reds manager??? The Reds are at least a few years away from contending, and they simply are not going to throw crazy money at a person who has nothing directly to do with winning on a daily basis. The baseball manager has as little to do with the team now than at anytime in the history of baseball. Baseball if front office exexts and analytics, shifts and multiple relief pitchers. Heck, Ryan Madson and Dillon Florio pitch in the postseason for the Dodgers.

That aside, I like the David Bell hiring. He's got a good reputation in the game, he's young enough to relate to the younger players and he's not going anywhere.

Now, the Reds can turn to what pitchers we can bring in here.
I think most people are aware the reds have no intention of operating like a contending team needs to in the near future.
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  #40  
Old 10-24-18, 11:15 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I think most people are aware the reds have no intention of operating like a contending team needs to in the near future.
Not really EP. Many on here think the Reds can get Joe Maddon or Terry Francona just by calling them on the phone and offering them alot of money.

The Reds are operating in the budget constraints that they have. Now many of you think they can just go get all the free agents they want and they are just lying to you about money limitations.
Now we can debate all day about HOW the Reds are rebuilding, but they can't just throw money around like the big market teams do.

An example is the LA Dodgers. Now, on a much lesser scale. Clayton Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. He's being paid for what he did 5-6 years ago, and what he was projected to do until Father Time took over.
The difference is the Dodgers can swing and miss, and swing and miss on contracts and still overpay for other players. The Reds don't have that luxury.

Considering all options, David Bell is a great hire for this franchise.
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  #41  
Old 10-24-18, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Not really EP. Many on here think the Reds can get Joe Maddon or Terry Francona just by calling them on the phone and offering them alot of money.

The Reds are operating in the budget constraints that they have. Now many of you think they can just go get all the free agents they want and they are just lying to you about money limitations.
Now we can debate all day about HOW the Reds are rebuilding, but they can't just throw money around like the big market teams do.

An example is the LA Dodgers. Now, on a much lesser scale. Clayton Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. He's being paid for what he did 5-6 years ago, and what he was projected to do until Father Time took over.
The difference is the Dodgers can swing and miss, and swing and miss on contracts and still overpay for other players. The Reds don't have that luxury.

Considering all options, David Bell is a great hire for this franchise.
Literally no one on earth thinks that...well, maybe Indiadad.

Yeah, Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. Lol, are you drunk posting?
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  #42  
Old 10-24-18, 12:03 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Literally no one on earth thinks that...well, maybe Indiadad.

Yeah, Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. Lol, are you drunk posting?
What exactly do I "literally think"?
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  #43  
Old 10-24-18, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
What exactly do I "literally think"?
Odd phrasing. Well, I don’t know what you “literally think”, I can only go by some of your ridiculous posts— remember the “cut Phillips” fiasco? Or the “Reds can score more than any NL club in the past 10 years with Winker leading off”? Or when you actually thought Giradi was interested in becoming the reds manager and bragged about it when all he was doing was keeeping his name in he media for jobs he really wants? Or the countless times you suggested the reds could add 2-3 top of the rotation pitchers?
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  #44  
Old 10-24-18, 12:31 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
The Reds have to ask and answer one basic question first. "Are we trying to make the playoffs next season, or are we looking down the road?" Once that question is answered concretely, you can plan your actions.
You're exactly right, wolves82. The Reds aren't answering that question at all. That means:
1) They don't know
2) They know, but they're not saying.

Either way, it means bad things ahead. If they had a definite plan to contend for the post-season, they would have said SOMETHING by now, don't ya think?
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  #45  
Old 10-24-18, 12:35 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
You're exactly right, wolves82. The Reds aren't answering that question at all. That means:
1) They don't know
2) They know, but they're not saying.

Either way, it means bad things ahead. If they had a definite plan to contend for the post-season, they would have said SOMETHING by now, don't ya think?
I don't know that the Brewers were planning on contending this season, but they did?
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  #46  
Old 10-24-18, 01:43 PM
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I don't know that the Brewers were planning on contending this season, but they did?
The brewers contended last year for the playoffs, so I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised. They were on a trajectory since bottoming out 3 seasons ago at 68 wins, improving their win count by 5, 13, and 10 games each of the last three seasons. It’s pretty clear they have a competent ownship group and upper management.
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  #47  
Old 10-24-18, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I don't know that the Brewers were planning on contending this season, but they did?
They definitely thought they would be contending. That's why they brought in Lorenzo Cain and Christian Yelich. They finished 1 game out of the Wild Card a year ago.
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  #48  
Old 10-24-18, 09:13 PM
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14red goes on saying we shouldn't expect to be contenders. Then brings up the brewers didn't expect to be contenders. Is firmly proven to be wrong.... wash rinse repeat
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  #49  
Old 10-25-18, 08:44 AM
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14red goes on saying we shouldn't expect to be contenders. Then brings up the brewers didn't expect to be contenders. Is firmly proven to be wrong.... wash rinse repeat
How about Kershaw is the Dodger’s Homer Bailey comment? I mean, that level of stupid is unprecedented.
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  #50  
Old 10-25-18, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Not really EP. Many on here think the Reds can get Joe Maddon or Terry Francona just by calling them on the phone and offering them alot of money.

The Reds are operating in the budget constraints that they have. Now many of you think they can just go get all the free agents they want and they are just lying to you about money limitations.
Now we can debate all day about HOW the Reds are rebuilding, but they can't just throw money around like the big market teams do.

An example is the LA Dodgers. Now, on a much lesser scale. Clayton Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. He's being paid for what he did 5-6 years ago, and what he was projected to do until Father Time took over.
The difference is the Dodgers can swing and miss, and swing and miss on contracts and still overpay for other players. The Reds don't have that luxury.

Considering all options, David Bell is a great hire for this franchise.
Clayton Kershaw finished second in Cy Young voting last year. What do you mean he's being paid for what he did 5-6 years ago? He still is one of the best pitchers in the game.

Homer Bailey isn't even an after thought from the Cy Young voters.
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  #51  
Old 10-25-18, 10:10 AM
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Kershaw had a WAR of 4 this year. Bailey’s career WAR is 4. Think about that.
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  #52  
Old 10-25-18, 03:23 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Not really EP. Many on here think the Reds can get Joe Maddon or Terry Francona just by calling them on the phone and offering them alot of money.
Literally nobody said this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
An example is the LA Dodgers. Now, on a much lesser scale. Clayton Kershaw is the Dodgers Homer Bailey. He's being paid for what he did 5-6 years ago, and what he was projected to do until Father Time took over.
This may be the dumbest thing you have ever posted. And that is saying something. Even dumber than "Verlander is not a #1 pitcher".

Go here: https://www.mlb.com/player/clayton-kershaw-477132
2011 - 21-5 - 2.28 ERA
2012 - 14-9 - 2.53 ERA
2013 - 16-9 - 1.83 ERA
2014 - 21-3 - 1.77 ERA
2015 - 16-7 - 2.13 ERA
2016 - 12-4 - 1.69 ERA
2017 - 18-4 - 2.31 ERA
2018 - 9-5 - 2.73 ERA

So Kershaw has made a few trips to the DL the last few years. He remains one of the best 2-3 pitchers on the planet. he is earning his contract for sure. Take his 2 worst years and add the ERAs together and it is lower than Homer's ERA in his best year since 2014.

Never ever ever ever use their two names in the same sentence again. And pay attention to baseball outside the Reds if you are going to comment on it.
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  #53  
Old 10-25-18, 03:25 PM
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I don't know that the Brewers were planning on contending this season, but they did?
They went out and signed Cain and Yelich in the off season. They clearly were planning on contending. Pay attention.
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  #54  
Old 10-25-18, 03:50 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Of course they do.

My point was maybe the Reds should focus in on improving their lineup if the pitching is out of their price range.

The Reds had the 4th worst outfield production in baseball last season.
The outfield can use some work, but really, going into last season we had Duvall and Hamilton as the only known commodities. Schebler, Winker, Ervin were all biding for playing time. Schebler won the job. And was ok, was playing pretty well until he ran into the wall at St. Louis and he was never the same after that. Winker was good until injured. I don't see see Schebler or Ervin as full time options for us. Schebler just strike out too much, any elevated fastball he swings right through. You can see it coming a mile away.

I think Winker has to play left field due to his footspeed. You generally put your weakest defensive outfielder in left.

Now I'm going to tread into murky waters next. You say the Reds outfield had the 4th worst production last year, and I'm guessing that just offensive.
As all of you know, I'm a big Billy fan. He's offensive shortcomings, he makes up for on defense, IMO. He's not a leadoff guy. If you can find a viable veteran right fielder. I think an outfield of Winker, Hamilton and XXX is pretty good.
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  #55  
Old 10-25-18, 07:09 PM
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Scott Schebler missed Super Two status by 2 days costing him millions and consequently saving the Reds millions.
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  #56  
Old 10-25-18, 08:21 PM
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Now I'm going to tread into murky waters next. You say the Reds outfield had the 4th worst production last year, and I'm guessing that just offensive.
As all of you know, I'm a big Billy fan. He's offensive shortcomings, he makes up for on defense, IMO. He's not a leadoff guy. If you can find a viable veteran right fielder. I think an outfield of Winker, Hamilton and XXX is pretty good.
Yeah, that’d be a great outfield. Lol

Last edited by eastside_purple; 10-26-18 at 10:06 AM..
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  #57  
Old 10-25-18, 10:27 PM
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14Red just moving on from the Brewers and Kershaw comments like he never even said them.
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  #58  
Old 10-25-18, 10:46 PM
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Need Vamps thoughts on Votto being up for the Gold Glove
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  #59  
Old 10-26-18, 10:06 AM
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14Red just moving on from the Brewers and Kershaw comments like he never even said them.
He trolled, got a reaction, shot his load. What else is there to discuss?
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  #60  
Old 10-26-18, 10:45 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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14Red is why I quit posting in the last thread. The guy is so stupid and makes so many ridiculous comments and then just moves on from them like they never even happened that you can't even have a conversation with him. It's like arguing with a wall

But the Kershaw one is an all-timer
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