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  #61  
Old 10-11-18, 02:13 PM
thePITman thePITman is online now
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Form a team with a relatively higher percentage of kids with a stable home life, respect for authority, morals, and a good work ethic, and over time that program will have great success. Does this have a correlation to those families that have both the ambition and ability to have their children attend private schools? I tend to think so. As with most things, this is a generalization and there are always exceptions to the rule, but I feel it has merit. It's not just "recruiting" or just "working harder." It's the upbringing of the kids. This is why there are many prominent public programs, as well (ahem:MAC:ahem); take a look into the communities themselves. That's my $0.02
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  #62  
Old 10-11-18, 02:29 PM
playboi12 playboi12 is online now
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Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe the best kids want to play with the best kids?
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  #63  
Old 10-11-18, 02:32 PM
LICKING COUNTY FAN LICKING COUNTY FAN is offline
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I am from a public school.
Please show proof of all of this cheating.
Saying it is so, does not make it so.
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  #64  
Old 10-11-18, 02:37 PM
CardSharp CardSharp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobluetom View Post
The tallest midget that beat your almighty cardinals twice while winning state and, beating division I champs St. X also.


Yeah, we know you never lose because the other team is better, 'we are colerain, we're #1 even if we never win anything, blah blah blah.

Speaking of tallest midget, congrats on winning you millionth GMC championship in a row, at least you have something in recent memory in your trophy case, LOL.
Soooo, why is LS ducking? And play-offs didn't start until early 70's...not 94 years ago. But keep ducking!
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  #65  
Old 10-11-18, 02:40 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Isn't it obvious - they just work harder.
I thought it was because weightroom.

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  #66  
Old 10-11-18, 03:11 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
Form a team with a relatively higher percentage of kids with a stable home life, respect for authority, morals, and a good work ethic,
add a great coach,
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Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
and over time that program will have great success
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  #67  
Old 10-11-18, 03:29 PM
aged jock aged jock is offline
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Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Aged Jock , what is your explanation for the Catholics winning the percentage of titles they have despite having so many less schools?
They have better coaching, more involved parents, a culture of more attention to being the best they can be at everything instead of just being average.

Kettering Fairmont is the prime example of the difference a coach makes. Losing records for years, despite being a large D1 school. Alter (600 kids) beat them (over 2,500 kids) 12 years in a row, until the last two years. The difference? Dave Miller. As head coach, he's instilled a culture of winning. It wasn't any difference in the kids who are in the school. It was the entire program at the high school level. He has them ALL in the weight room in January. He has them all KNOWING they can beat anybody. He puts the right kids in the right spots to be successful. He doesn't pick a couple of "stars" and allow them to get away with anything they want to do, while alienating the other players who could play their roles in creating a true team.

All you need to do is look at that turnaround. If you don't get it, don't start with the recruiting and larger geography excuses, without any evidence that either of those have any effect on anything.

At many public schools the coaches are viewed like any other employees. Do they have the experience at x's and o's? Do they seem to be safe choices? Do they follow all the rules? Do they have the right connections? Are they politically correct? That's it.

At many private schools, the coaches are chosen because they know how to create great programs.
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  #68  
Old 10-11-18, 04:25 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Glad you guys have resolved this whole public/private thing.
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  #69  
Old 10-11-18, 05:06 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aged jock View Post
They have better coaching, more involved parents, a culture of more attention to being the best they can be at everything instead of just being average.

Kettering Fairmont is the prime example of the difference a coach makes. Losing records for years, despite being a large D1 school. Alter (600 kids) beat them (over 2,500 kids) 12 years in a row, until the last two years. The difference? Dave Miller. As head coach, he's instilled a culture of winning. It wasn't any difference in the kids who are in the school. It was the entire program at the high school level. He has them ALL in the weight room in January. He has them all KNOWING they can beat anybody. He puts the right kids in the right spots to be successful. He doesn't pick a couple of "stars" and allow them to get away with anything they want to do, while alienating the other players who could play their roles in creating a true team. Uh, nah many private schools win because they get "many"e
All you need to do is look at that turnaround. If you don't get it, don't start with the recruiting and larger geography excuses, without any evidence that either of those have any effect on anything.

At many public schools the coaches are viewed like any other employees. Do they have the experience at x's and o's? Do they seem to be safe choices? Do they follow all the rules? Do they have the right connections? Are they politically correct? That's it.

At many private schools, the coaches are chosen because they know how to create great programs.
Uh nah many private schools win because they get "many" really good players from 10 or more feeder schools.Its all about numbers of kids from JR Highs.Public schools cant compete against privates who get the best kids from 10 feeder schools.
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  #70  
Old 10-11-18, 05:11 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaws31 View Post
I'm pretty sure Jesus isn't too concerned about districts or feeder schools or equal playing fields or whatever else you talking about here. Although I'm willing to bet he probably would of attended a Private if he had his choice. Just a hunch.
UH nah he couldn't afford it, but wait a leadership scholly is on the way.Uh 40 time,bench press, and shuttle run?
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  #71  
Old 10-11-18, 05:24 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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The success or failure of any program revolves around one person - the coach, who instills the passion for the program, provides structure for the players, and brings hope to the community. A good coach is, above all, a cheerleader and motivator, making his players believe that they can succeed and that they must put in the time and dedication to achieve. No matter public or private - the right coach is the most essential facet. Where was Mentor before Triv? Colerain before Coombs? Kirtland before LaVerde? Likewise, where was Ignatius before Kyle? Why were Moeller fans, whose school always has some of the best talent in the state, complaining about their team underachieving for years? You can draw talent but, if you can't maximize it, you are not going to be successful, no matter the school. Look at your coach and his program. At some schools, football is just more important than others. Chances are it's because of the coach. Discipline, self-confidence and pride will overcome more talented, but unmotivated opponents.
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  #72  
Old 10-11-18, 05:29 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
The success or failure of any program revolves around one person - the coach, who instills the passion for the program, provides structure for the players, and brings hope to the community. A good coach is, above all, a cheerleader and motivator, making his players believe that they can succeed and that they must put in the time and dedication to achieve. No matter public or private - the right coach is the most essential facet. Where was Mentor before Triv? Colerain before Coombs? Kirtland before LaVerde? Likewise, where was Ignatius before Kyle? Why were Moeller fans, whose school always has some of the best talent in the state, complaining about their team underachieving for years? You can draw talent but, if you can't maximize it, you are not going to be successful, no matter the school. Look at your coach and his program. At some schools, football is just more important than others. Chances are it's because of the coach. Discipline, self-confidence and pride will overcome more talented, but unmotivated opponents.
Uh, you win with "jimmeys and joes" bigger faster stronger kids will win every time. Coaches can make an average player better, they cant make an average player great.
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  #73  
Old 10-11-18, 05:37 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, you win with "jimmeys and joes" bigger faster stronger kids will win every time. Coaches can make an average player better, they cant make an average player great.
They don't need to be great. They need to play as a team. Look at the all-state teams; they are filled with great players from public schools, more than private schools. The advantage that privates have might be in depth. Coaches can make a player achieve a higher level, or they can instill the belief that their kids can't compete. Disciplined players beat undisciplined, more talented players . Glenville has sent more players to the NFL and DI schools than any other school in Ohio, yet this overwhelming talent has never taken the state title. Talent isn't everything. It's the coach.




Last edited by tom 48; 10-11-18 at 05:48 PM.
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  #74  
Old 10-11-18, 05:49 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by aged jock View Post
So that's it. Same old, tired nonsense.

The reality is that parents choose where their kids go. Schools don't. So, instead of saying I choose my kids and you can't choose yours, it's more like you play with kids who choose your team and I'll play with kids who choose mine. And here I thought freedom to choose if, when, where and with whom I want to participate was still available in Ohio. I guess if you had your way it wouldn't be. We would just go where we're required to go. Sounds scary, doesn't it, comrade?

Parents choose schools for their kids for all kinds of reasons. Some choose public because it costs little or nothing to them, in addition to the taxes we all pay. Some choose for other reasons, one of which is athletics. Some parents choose private schools, despite having to sacrifice and pay dearly, for a variety of reasons, one of which is athletics.

In either case, the schools and coaches work with the kids that show up. The whole idea of private school "advantage" makes little to no sense to me.

Where you turn all that into a moral issue is way beyond my understanding.
What is nonsense is a complete denial of the truth. Again I challenge you to a game. I get to choose who plays from vast geographical area and vastly larger population base who is on my team. You are limited to a very small geographical area and the population that happens to be in a small area. You will lose a very high percent of the time. Do you want to meet at a park. I am bringing my team that I choose you must choose from the park. It is an easy game, the difference is I am going to stack deck just like the Private schools do. Do you want to play for say $100.00
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  #75  
Old 10-11-18, 05:49 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
They don't need to be great. They need to play as a team. Look at the all-state teams; they are filled with great players from public schools, more than private schools. The advantage that privates have might be in depth. Coaches can make a player achieve a higher level, or they can instill the belief that their kids can't compete. Disciplined players beat undisciplined, more talented players . Glenville has sent more players to the NFL and DI schools than any other school in Ohio, yet this overwhelming talent has never taken the state title. Talent isn't everything.

Uh "play as a team?" Uh if the guy across from you is 30 lbs heavier, twice as strong as you, and way faster game pretty much over. Uh I d disagree about Glenville sending more players to the NFL. Uh I would say it would be a GCL south team or another D1 league in the state.Moeller, Elder, or STX,Iggy,STeds.
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  #76  
Old 10-11-18, 06:04 PM
fromthe3 fromthe3 is offline
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THE Ohio State Buckeyes might be the only public school in Ohio that could beat Hoban. But Hoban is better at recruiting then Ohio State.
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  #77  
Old 10-11-18, 06:07 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh "play as a team?" Uh if the guy across from you is 30 lbs heavier, twice as strong as you, and way faster game pretty much over. Uh I d disagree about Glenville sending more players to the NFL. Uh I would say it would be a GCL south team or another D1 league in the state.Moeller, Elder, or STX,Iggy,STeds.
Well, you're wrong.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/LNDL0oG...since-2006.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...gi?id=93b96bfa

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/ind..._football.html

Last edited by tom 48; 10-11-18 at 06:20 PM.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-18, 06:36 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
Form a team with a relatively higher percentage of kids with a stable home life, respect for authority, morals, and a good work ethic, and over time that program will have great success. Does this have a correlation to those families that have both the ambition and ability to have their children attend private schools? I tend to think so. As with most things, this is a generalization and there are always exceptions to the rule, but I feel it has merit. It's not just "recruiting" or just "working harder." It's the upbringing of the kids. This is why there are many prominent public programs, as well (ahem:MAC:ahem); take a look into the communities themselves. That's my $0.02
Prob the post of the season! Well said and way too logical for most.
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  #79  
Old 10-11-18, 06:37 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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To answer the original question - no there will not be a public sweep with Hoban out there unless they get bit by the injury bug.
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  #80  
Old 10-11-18, 07:11 PM
fromthe3 fromthe3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
Form a team with a relatively higher percentage of kids with a stable home life, respect for authority, morals, and a good work ethic, and over time that program will have great success. Does this have a correlation to those families that have both the ambition and ability to have their children attend private schools? I tend to think so. As with most things, this is a generalization and there are always exceptions to the rule, but I feel it has merit. It's not just "recruiting" or just "working harder." It's the upbringing of the kids. This is why there are many prominent public programs, as well (ahem:MAC:ahem); take a look into the communities themselves. That's my $0.02
I agree with the beginning and end but dont agree with the middle. Unless I am misunderstanding something.

I just don't understand why families that live in communities, where you have to have money, like Hudson, Massillon Jackson, Dublin, Mason and so on...would send their kids to private schools?

For the most part, I believe better teachers go to public schools because they get paid better at public schools then private schools. I also believe public school teachers, for the most part, are better then private school teachers because they have more accountability from the state then private school teachers.
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  #81  
Old 10-11-18, 07:17 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by aged jock View Post
They have better coaching, more involved parents, a culture of more attention to being the best they can be at everything instead of just being average.

Kettering Fairmont is the prime example of the difference a coach makes. Losing records for years, despite being a large D1 school. Alter (600 kids) beat them (over 2,500 kids) 12 years in a row, until the last two years. The difference? Dave Miller. As head coach, he's instilled a culture of winning. It wasn't any difference in the kids who are in the school. It was the entire program at the high school level. He has them ALL in the weight room in January. He has them all KNOWING they can beat anybody. He puts the right kids in the right spots to be successful. He doesn't pick a couple of "stars" and allow them to get away with anything they want to do, while alienating the other players who could play their roles in creating a true team.

All you need to do is look at that turnaround. If you don't get it, don't start with the recruiting and larger geography excuses, without any evidence that either of those have any effect on anything.

At many public schools the coaches are viewed like any other employees. Do they have the experience at x's and o's? Do they seem to be safe choices? Do they follow all the rules? Do they have the right connections? Are they politically correct? That's it.

At many private schools, the coaches are chosen because they know how to create great programs.
The devil is in the details. In the top 3 divisions 20 of 300 schools have >20% of their adjusted enrollment due to CB. That same 6% of schools has won 80% of the state championships in the top 3 divisions over the last 5 years. Moeller also won 1 but only 15% of their enrollment is due CB.

Lets play a game. You get to pick from who is in the park at the time. I get to bring my team. Not liking those odds are you?
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  #82  
Old 10-11-18, 08:01 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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The title of the thread was about a public school SWEEP of the championships. Consensus is that Hoban would be the school that might break up the sweep. Yet, we still have the " It's not fair. Publics can't compete" arguments. Ironic? AP poll D1 looks pretty good for the publics:

DIVISION I


1, Cin. Colerain (17) 7-0 241

2, Mentor (9) 7-0 224

3, Canton McKinley 7-0 196

4, Dublin Coffman 7-0 161

5, Pickerington Central 6-1 85

6, Lakewood St. Edward 4-2 73

7, Cin. Moeller 6-1 68

8, Fairmont 6-1 63

9, Euclid 6-1 58

10, Northmont 6-1 56

Last year's championship results:

Thursday, November 30th
Division 2: No. 5 Akr. Archbishop Hoban (14-1) def. No. 2 Cin. Winton Woods (13-2), 42-14

Friday, December 1st
Division 7: Minster (11-4) def. No. 5 Cuyahoga Heights (13-1), 32-7

Division 5: No. 3 Wheelersburg (15-0) def. No. 1 Pemberville Eastwood (14-1), 21-14 (OT)

Division 1: No. 8 Pickerington Central (14-1) def. No. 6 Mentor (13-2), 56-28

Saturday, December 2nd
Division 6: No. 1 Maria Stein Marion Local (15-0) def. No. 2 Kirtland (14-1), 34-11

Division 4: No. 1 Steubenville (15-0) def. No. 7 Clarksville Clinton-Massie (13-2), 50-36

Division 3: 1 Trotwood-Madison (15-0) def. Dresden Tri-Valley (13-2), 27-19

" But we can't compete."
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  #83  
Old 10-11-18, 08:07 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by jeroe View Post
Lets play a game. You get to pick from who is in the park
The park. the park. the park. Let me guess. You'll have a white van with tinted windows?
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  #84  
Old 10-11-18, 08:08 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
The title of the thread was about a public school SWEEP of the championships. Consensus is that Hoban would be the school that might break up the sweep. Yet, we still have the " It's not fair. Publics can't compete" arguments. Ironic? AP poll D1 looks pretty good for the publics:

DIVISION I


1, Cin. Colerain (17) 7-0 241

2, Mentor (9) 7-0 224

3, Canton McKinley 7-0 196

4, Dublin Coffman 7-0 161

5, Pickerington Central 6-1 85

6, Lakewood St. Edward 4-2 73

7, Cin. Moeller 6-1 68

8, Fairmont 6-1 63

9, Euclid 6-1 58

10, Northmont 6-1 56

Last year's championship results:

Thursday, November 30th
Division 2: No. 5 Akr. Archbishop Hoban (14-1) def. No. 2 Cin. Winton Woods (13-2), 42-14

Friday, December 1st
Division 7: Minster (11-4) def. No. 5 Cuyahoga Heights (13-1), 32-7

Division 5: No. 3 Wheelersburg (15-0) def. No. 1 Pemberville Eastwood (14-1), 21-14 (OT)

Division 1: No. 8 Pickerington Central (14-1) def. No. 6 Mentor (13-2), 56-28

Saturday, December 2nd
Division 6: No. 1 Maria Stein Marion Local (15-0) def. No. 2 Kirtland (14-1), 34-11

Division 4: No. 1 Steubenville (15-0) def. No. 7 Clarksville Clinton-Massie (13-2), 50-36

Division 3: 1 Trotwood-Madison (15-0) def. Dresden Tri-Valley (13-2), 27-19

" But we can't compete."
The statistics reflect it is highly unlikely there will be a sweep.
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  #85  
Old 10-11-18, 08:15 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by fromthe3 View Post
I just don't understand why families that live in communities, where you have to have money, like Hudson, Massillon Jackson, Dublin, Mason and so on...would send their kids to private schools?
Urban Meyer lives in Dublin, goes to daily Mass, and his son went to Watterson. Guess they had something he thought was important, and maybe it wasn't football. The people from the wealthy areas have their own reasons. They're not all the same. I had a nephew from Mason who started for the freshman team in three sports at Moeller, but hated Latin and went back. Some are legacy. Some are prestige. Some think it gives them a leg up on recruiting. Some think they'll get more discipline. Some have four star kids and know that they'll lift more weights at DeSales than at Dublin who will coddle them because the guys at D-1 training said so, ha ha.
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  #86  
Old 10-11-18, 08:31 PM
fromthe3 fromthe3 is offline
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You are right. I would think tradition is the biggest reason.

I think public schools are better and would invest my money in a better community/school district, training for my child, or college.
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  #87  
Old 10-11-18, 08:34 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
The park. the park. the park. Let me guess. You'll have a white van with tinted windows?
Nope no vans here. He doesn't like the odds though does he?
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  #88  
Old 10-11-18, 08:51 PM
Over The Hills Over The Hills is offline
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Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post

Last year's championship results:

Thursday, November 30th
Division 2: No. 5 Akr. Archbishop Hoban (14-1) def. No. 2 Cin. Winton Woods (13-2), 42-14

Friday, December 1st
Division 7: Minster (11-4) def. No. 5 Cuyahoga Heights (13-1), 32-7

Division 5: No. 3 Wheelersburg (15-0) def. No. 1 Pemberville Eastwood (14-1), 21-14 (OT)

Division 1: No. 8 Pickerington Central (14-1) def. No. 6 Mentor (13-2), 56-28

Saturday, December 2nd
Division 6: No. 1 Maria Stein Marion Local (15-0) def. No. 2 Kirtland (14-1), 34-11

Division 4: No. 1 Steubenville (15-0) def. No. 7 Clarksville Clinton-Massie (13-2), 50-36

Division 3: 1 Trotwood-Madison (15-0) def. Dresden Tri-Valley (13-2), 27-19

Pretty easy to see that public schools are doing fine.
Just read the list above.



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  #89  
Old 10-11-18, 08:56 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by fromthe3 View Post
You are right. I would think tradition is the biggest reason.

I think public schools are better and would invest my money in a better community/school district, training for my child, or college.
There is nothing wrong with this. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with sending your child to one of these private institutions. These are very strong well rounded institutions. I grew up in the private system. Very strong educational system. There are few public systems that can compare as a collective to the best private systems. Any child with the correct environment at home can excel in either system. A child raised properly the system does not make the child; however, the system can help the child maximize on their potential.

The only area some of the private systems lack is true diversity. Diversity is a very important and in some cases this is missing in these systems. When there is little exposure to diversity early in life it can be difficult for some to adapt later. The benefits of the private system far out way any detractors.
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  #90  
Old 10-11-18, 09:03 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by Over The Hills View Post
Pretty easy to see that public schools are doing fine.
Just read the list above.



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Look at the last 10 years! Over the last 5 years for DI -DIII the privates have won 12 of 15 championships! The only 3 won outside of a very few schools.

Pickerington Central D1 - 2017
Trotwood Madison D3 - 2017
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