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  #1531  
Old 10-05-18, 07:34 AM
BobcatQB BobcatQB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta16 View Post
Football is one of the sports that has a short 10 week season for all of it, my girls cheer in a youth football league and I would not touch those games unless the pay is high as the coaches and parents treat it like the super bowl and make high school games look like fun.

The rules are so different in Pro, College and High School that most people have no clue. So sick of hearing he was out of the tackle box, or pass interference is a first down or a fan say holding on every play when I am at a game.
I enjoy it Zeta but of course I don't hear all the goofy people in the stands that don't know the rules. Football is much different at the HS level compared to NFL. When I am in the stands, I try to educate friends who complain about calls..they say we are all in a cult and I'm just sticking up for the refs I explain the rule and how the fan is wrong..they don't like it but I think it helps for future situations. Of course I tell them when I think it's not the right call either and explain what I think I saw and would have done.
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  #1532  
Old 10-05-18, 08:38 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobcatQB View Post
I enjoy it Zeta but of course I don't hear all the goofy people in the stands that don't know the rules. Football is much different at the HS level compared to NFL. When I am in the stands, I try to educate friends who complain about calls..they say we are all in a cult and I'm just sticking up for the refs I explain the rule and how the fan is wrong..they don't like it but I think it helps for future situations. Of course I tell them when I think it's not the right call either and explain what I think I saw and would have done.
Sometimes I will speak up to fans when they are just dead wrong on calls, but other times I just don't bother!
Wednesday night at a JH game a guy who was more than vocal yelling really didn't understand spot penalties, nor no such thing as uncatchable ball in JH amongst a number of things.

I don't blame officials for not wanting to do younger games. I stay away from coaching youth baseball because of the parents meddling and also how often they attack umps.

Kudos to those who do tho.
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  #1533  
Old 10-05-18, 09:14 AM
PETENICE PETENICE is offline
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I praise and give kudos to anyone that will sign up to be an official. Dont know who said it but with the way youth / high school sports have evolved I would want NO part in it. I dont care if it was $ 300 a game. I witnessed just this year a parent pull a gun on an official at a 6th grade football game in Cincinnati. It was embarrassing and scary at the same time.

The days of the youth being kids is over it is all about the dead beat parents....
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  #1534  
Old 10-05-18, 10:04 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETENICE View Post
. I witnessed just this year a parent pull a gun on an official at a 6th grade football game in Cincinnati. It was embarrassing and scary at the same time.
That kind of news generally races through the officiating community not just locally, but nationally as well....

Haven't heard anything bout this.
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  #1535  
Old 10-06-18, 06:25 AM
king kong king kong is offline
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Is illegal participation enforceable after change of possession? 4th down Team A punts from their own 25, Team B returns punt to the 45, flag on the play. Official gives signal with two hands on top of his head. Ball is walked off to the 40.
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  #1536  
Old 10-06-18, 09:06 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
Is illegal participation enforceable after change of possession? 4th down Team A punts from their own 25, Team B returns punt to the 45, flag on the play. Official gives signal with two hands on top of his head. Ball is walked off to the 40.
Illegal Participation is a live ball foul. The reasons for the foul are many.....

a. When any player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant enters and participates during a down.

b. If an injured player is not replaced for at least one down; unless the halftime or overtime intermission occurs.

c. To have 12 or more players participating at the snap or free kick.

d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

e. For a player to be lying on the ground to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

f. For a disqualified player to re-enter the game.

g. For a player whose helmet comes completely off during a down to continue to participate beyond the immediate action in which the player is engaged.

The enforcement spot for Illegal Participation depends on what actually took place during the play. The situation you describe is somewhat incomplete as you do not indicate who the foul was on and who ended up with the ball after the penalty was enforced.....

Looking at the situation you posted, one may assume that the foul was for the receiving team having 12+ players participating at the snap and the 15 yard penalty was enforced from the previous spot (25 to 40) and the kicking team retained possession either to replay 4th down (still short of the line to gain) or via a 1st Down. (new series)
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  #1537  
Old 10-06-18, 12:59 PM
king kong king kong is offline
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Team A had 12 players on the field, Team B retained possession. Also, was 15 yard penalty.

Team A has 12 players on the field, punts on 4th down, Team B returns the ball to the 45, penalty is marked off 15 yards to Team A 30. Official told our coach if the play continues with 12 on the field, then it is a 15 yard penalty assessed to Team A.
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  #1538  
Old 10-06-18, 01:40 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
Team A had 12 players on the field, Team B retained possession. Also, was 15 yard penalty.

Team A has 12 players on the field, punts on 4th down, Team B returns the ball to the 45, penalty is marked off 15 yards to Team A 30. Official told our coach if the play continues with 12 on the field, then it is a 15 yard penalty assessed to Team A.
Correct ruling and enforcement of the penalty. A rule change this year allows the receiving team to enforce fouls committed during scrimmage kicks and free kicks by the kicking team at the end of the play. (reduces the potential for re-kicks)

Had the officials recognized the 12 men on the field prior to the snap of the football, the play would have been blown dead and a 5 yard penalty for an Illegal Substitution foul would have been enforced. It's optimum that the officials recognize this foul in advance of the snap, but there are times when this isn't verified prior to the snap of the football.

Please note, prior to the snap, the existence of 12 men on the field is not in an of itself a foul...... and there is no foul in High School Football for "12 men in the huddle".
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  #1539  
Old 10-06-18, 02:02 PM
king kong king kong is offline
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Thanks. Next question, 3rd and 15, Team A Qb drops back to pass, Team B player grabs Team A Qb face mask and tackles him for a 5 yard loss. Official signals personal foul face mask. Penalty was marked off from spot of penalty, is this correct?
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  #1540  
Old 10-06-18, 02:27 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
Thanks. Next question, 3rd and 15, Team A Qb drops back to pass, Team B player grabs Team A Qb face mask and tackles him for a 5 yard loss. Official signals personal foul face mask. Penalty was marked off from spot of penalty, is this correct?
Correct if the end of the run and the spot of the foul were the same here.

15 yds from the end of the run and repeat 3rd down.

Should be 3rd and 5.
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  #1541  
Old 10-06-18, 04:27 PM
OneTiger OneTiger is offline
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During the kick-off the kicker pooches the ball high toward the sideline. The receiving team's player catches the ball at around his own 30 yd. line with one foot in bounds and one out. Is there a penalty here?
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  #1542  
Old 10-06-18, 06:54 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTiger View Post
During the kick-off the kicker pooches the ball high toward the sideline. The receiving team's player catches the ball at around his own 30 yd. line with one foot in bounds and one out. Is there a penalty here?
By rule this is a foul against the kicking team for a Free Kick out of bounds.
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  #1543  
Old 10-07-18, 06:40 PM
OneTiger OneTiger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
By rule this is a foul against the kicking team for a Free Kick out of bounds.
Thanks
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  #1544  
Old 10-07-18, 07:26 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Is the play clock on the field the official play clock or does an official control the official time? Saturday night saw the play clock go to 0 for a full second with no penalty.
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  #1545  
Old 10-07-18, 08:09 PM
RB22 RB22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
Is the play clock on the field the official play clock or does an official control the official time? Saturday night saw the play clock go to 0 for a full second with no penalty.


The Back Judge is in charge of the play clock. He will raise his hand and countdown the final 5 seconds. The official does not operate the 25 second clock. He uses a ready ref on his belt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #1546  
Old 10-07-18, 09:08 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
Is the play clock on the field the official play clock or does an official control the official time? Saturday night saw the play clock go to 0 for a full second with no penalty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RB22 View Post
The Back Judge is in charge of the play clock. He will raise his hand and countdown the final 5 seconds. The official does not operate the 25 second clock. He uses a ready ref on his belt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If there is a visible 25 second play clock, that clock is the official timepiece and is controlled by an operator in the press box.
In the situation presented here, a visible play clock is being used, therefore the Back Judge will not use an auxiliary timing device.

Regardless the presence of a visible play clock, the Back Judge will visibly count down the final five seconds as the clock expires.

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-08-18 at 05:58 AM.
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  #1547  
Old 10-07-18, 09:49 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If there is a visible 25 second play clock, that clock is the official timepiece and is controlled by an operator in the press box.
Iíve seen these controlled from the sideline with a remote, but itís been several years ago. Is that still an option?
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  #1548  
Old 10-08-18, 05:56 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I’ve seen these controlled from the sideline with a remote, but it’s been several years ago. Is that still an option?
Occasionally you see that. I remember a couple of games where we were presented with a unit that was the size of a first generation TI Graphing Calculator. It had a clip on it and attached to one's belt. The schools wanted the Back Judge to operate it while on the field. We quickly shut that idea down.

As far as someone operating any timing unit from the sideline versus the press box, we have never permitted this to be operated from the sidelines. The press box is the preferred location as they have the best view of the Referee's signals related to starting and re-setting the play clock. When we got push back on this, we would just have them turn off the play clock and keep it the old fashioned way. (Back Judge)
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  #1549  
Old 10-09-18, 10:12 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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Do jersey grabs/tackles ever qualify as a Horse Collar tackle? If so, what key factors are involved under NFHS?

I'm seeing a lot more jersey grabs and drags from the rear this season. Haven't seen many actual tackles, but I wondered if it would have the same effect were the tackler to succeed in pulling a runner down from that position.
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  #1550  
Old 10-09-18, 10:45 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunardo View Post
Do jersey grabs/tackles ever qualify as a Horse Collar tackle? If so, what key factors are involved under NFHS?

I'm seeing a lot more jersey grabs and drags from the rear this season. Haven't seen many actual tackles, but I wondered if it would have the same effect were the tackler to succeed in pulling a runner down from that position.
Grabbing the inside back or side collar of either the shoulder pads or the jersey of the runner and subsequently pulling (backward or sideward) that opponent to the ground is a horse collar tackle and is illegal.

Simply grabbing the outside of the jersey and pulling the runner to the ground (in any direction) is not a foul.
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  #1551  
Old 10-12-18, 07:40 AM
Impalaman Impalaman is offline
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This happened last night at the Howland- Niles game. Near the end of the first half, the Howland quarterback throws a long pass that was intercepted by Niles. After a long run back, the Niles player fumbles as he is being tackled. The officials immediately signal Howland has recovered. During the run back a flag is thrown for a personal foul on Howland. The officials ruled that the personal foul makes the fumble and recovery irrelevant and move the ball half the distance to the goal line, Niles ball. Just to be clear, the personal foul was not during the tackle and did not cause the fumble. You still might be able to watch the replay at WKBN.com , by clicking on the game of the week link. Was this the correct ruling?
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  #1552  
Old 10-12-18, 07:43 AM
Impalaman Impalaman is offline
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http://www.tribtoday.com/sports/high...nates-howland/
This is a link to the newspaper story on the game.
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  #1553  
Old 10-12-18, 08:21 AM
FormerRef FormerRef is offline
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I believe this falls under the "you can't get the ball with dirty hands" concept. Just as the defense cannot get a turnover after committing an accepted penalty, same goes for the offense in this situation. The order of occurrences muddies the understanding a little because it probably does not happen very often.

Rule 5-1-3-d, page 50: https://www.sdcfoa.org/wp-content/up...NFHS_Rules.pdf
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  #1554  
Old 10-12-18, 09:39 AM
RB22 RB22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impalaman View Post
This happened last night at the Howland- Niles game. Near the end of the first half, the Howland quarterback throws a long pass that was intercepted by Niles. After a long run back, the Niles player fumbles as he is being tackled. The officials immediately signal Howland has recovered. During the run back a flag is thrown for a personal foul on Howland. The officials ruled that the personal foul makes the fumble and recovery irrelevant and move the ball half the distance to the goal line, Niles ball. Just to be clear, the personal foul was not during the tackle and did not cause the fumble. You still might be able to watch the replay at WKBN.com , by clicking on the game of the week link. Was this the correct ruling?


Since the foul occurred after change of possession and during the run another change of possession occurred the penalty should have been enforced 15 yards against Howland from the spot of the foul and Niles maintains possession.


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  #1555  
Old 10-12-18, 11:34 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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The Referee originally announced that a blindside block against the "defense".(Team in the Dark Uniform)

After discussion with the crew and both coaches the Referee announced that the blindside block occurred after the play was over. If this is what happened, this dead ball foul is enforced from the end of the run, which was the spot of the fumble...... which is what the crew did.

Whether or not this was handled properly is up for speculation as you cannot see the foul nor do we know exactly what conversations took place between the crew members and the crew members and the coaches.
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  #1556  
Old 10-12-18, 12:07 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB22 View Post
Since the foul occurred after change of possession and during the run another change of possession occurred the penalty should have been enforced 15 yards against Howland from the spot of the foul and Niles maintains possession.


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Let's not make this difficult.....

If during the return of an interception the defense (offense and defense designations can change throughout a down) commits a foul, the enforcement spot of that foul will be from the end of the run, not the spot of the foul.

In this case, the end of the run is the spot of the fumble which results in any accepted penalty against the defense being enforced from that spot.

For example.... (and this is what may have happened during the play in question)


B20 intercepts A 14's pass at the 50 yard line and is immediately grabbed by the face mask by A81......... B20 breaks free and returns the ball to the A30 where he fumbles and A14 recovers......

- Since A fouled after the first change of possession and before the second change of possession, A cannot keep possession of the ball (unless B declines the penalty........ which they won't)

- When B accepts the penalty for the face mask it is enforced from the end of B20's run which is the spot of the fumble ....... 15 yards (or 5 yards depending on the severity of the grab) and a first down and 10 for B
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  #1557  
Old 10-12-18, 09:50 PM
Reddengineer Reddengineer is offline
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Simple one here. I’m not going to reference the specific play, as I am unclear as to the actual ruling. Team A on offense runs ball into the line on the one yard line of Team B, contact results in ball, sans runner, falling into the end zone. Can Team A recover the ball for a TD?
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  #1558  
Old 10-12-18, 09:51 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Yes
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  #1559  
Old 10-13-18, 06:09 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Bay vs EC Friday night

EC punted, ball rolling toward goaline, player from ec gets infront of the punt and with his heals clearly on and s;aighly over the width of the goal line downs the ball at the one. Ball was given to bay at their one/

Thought if any part of a [layers is touchint the front edge of the goaline they are in the endzone and ball to 20 ??

Bay coach was on it but he did not ask for a conference or call a time out to clarify the ruling, big deal at that point of the game!
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  #1560  
Old 10-13-18, 06:51 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
EC punted, ball rolling toward goaline, player from ec gets infront of the punt and with his heals clearly on and s;aighly over the width of the goal line downs the ball at the one. Ball was given to bay at their one/

Thought if any part of a [layers is touchint the front edge of the goaline they are in the endzone and ball to 20 ??

Bay coach was on it but he did not ask for a conference or call a time out to clarify the ruling, big deal at that point of the game!
The position of the ball is the only thing that matters. If the ball doesn't cross, it is not a touchback.
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