Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Boys Soccer

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-14-18, 10:48 PM
anonclubcoach anonclubcoach is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 11-14-18
Posts: 2
anonclubcoach is on a distinguished road
OHSAA 5 player limit for off-season club teams

I understand only 5 players may play on an organized soccer team outside of their school soccer season.

My question is in regards to an official club soccer roster that has 5 players from one HS team on it officially rostered. If a 6th player from the same HS who is NOT on the club team's roster wants to substitute for a player that is one of the 5 on the roster in any one LEAGUE game but is not carded for that team (because they play on another), can they serve as a guest player? If so, could they guest even if all 5 of the normally rostered players are also playing? Lastly, what about a US Club soccer tournament that is not part of the Us Club team's league schedule - would the rules differ at all there?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-14-18, 11:32 PM
CMHCoachnRef CMHCoachnRef is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-29-10
Posts: 12
CMHCoachnRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonclubcoach View Post
I understand only 5 players may play on an organized soccer team outside of their school soccer season.

My question is in regards to an official club soccer roster that has 5 players from one HS team on it officially rostered. If a 6th player from the same HS who is NOT on the club team's roster wants to substitute for a player that is one of the 5 on the roster in any one LEAGUE game but is not carded for that team (because they play on another), can they serve as a guest player? If so, could they guest even if all 5 of the normally rostered players are also playing? Lastly, what about a US Club soccer tournament that is not part of the Us Club team's league schedule - would the rules differ at all there?
Per OHSAA Sports Regulations:
The number of interscholastic soccer players from the same school on a noninterscholastic squad is limited to five on the roster of that non-interscholastic squad. A roster is defined as all the members of the entire squad on that noninterscholastic squad that would practice together OR participate together in any non-interscholastic event. “Rotating players” that would exceed this number (5) is not permitted and the use any “guest player” would be counted as one of the 5 players permitted on the non-interscholastic roster.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-15-18, 07:59 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-29-14
Posts: 2,897
Happygoluckky is on a distinguished road
The whole rule is outdated. OSHSAA has made High School less optimal for players interested in playing college.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-15-18, 04:02 PM
scsweeper19 scsweeper19 is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 01-16-18
Posts: 35
scsweeper19 is on a distinguished road
I have a question about this part of the rule " practice together", does that mean that if club A fields 3 teams in say the 02 age group and there are 5 players from high school A on each team, if all three club teams practice at the same location and same time, high school A is in violation of the OHSAA rule?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-16-18, 07:04 AM
CMHCoachnRef CMHCoachnRef is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-29-10
Posts: 12
CMHCoachnRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by scsweeper19 View Post
I have a question about this part of the rule " practice together", does that mean that if club A fields 3 teams in say the 02 age group and there are 5 players from high school A on each team, if all three club teams practice at the same location and same time, high school A is in violation of the OHSAA rule?
In a word, YES.

The entire purpose of this rule -- that spans across all sports -- dates back to a prior era. The rule has never been changed to reflect the reality of 2018-19.

Prior to the existence of the "half team" rule, some coaches would basically attempt to keep their high school teams practicing/playing all year round. If you wanted to play basketball for Great Basketball Team High School, you pretty much had to give up all other sports in order to be able to continue to be able to compete and remain in the GBTHS basketball program! I know, hard to believe ;-).

Over time, in an effort to ensure that players were not forced to be "one sport wonders" at a particular school, the OHSAA created a series of rules including:
1. The "half team" rule (no more than 50% of the number of players on the court/field during a "game" could play/practice as a unit outside of the official OHSAA Scholastic Season.
2. The OHSAA Scholastic Seasons were specifically defined in great detail.
3. Scholastic Coaches were only allowed to play/practice above the "half team" number for a given number of days (10) outside the prescribed OHSAA Scholastic Season during a specific period of time (varies by sport as to the specific time interval).
4. Scholastic Coaches were allowed to have access to players for certain non-direct sports-related sessions (i.e. conditioning WITHOUT using the actual ball used in that sport) during a specific period during the year (once again, varies by sport).
5. Scholastic Coaches had certain "Dark Periods" in which said coaches could not have ANY contact with the players.
6. Scholastic Coaches were prohibited from coaching their own players outside of the specific OHSAA Scholastic Season (a very well known Central Ohio Coach was suspended for allegedly violating this provision many years ago).
7. Teams/Players were prohibited from participating on multiple teams during the season (club and OHSAA or CYO and OHSAA Jr. high, for example).

In many ways, these rules caused the expansion of "club sports", not only in Ohio, but in other states as well. Soccer was one of the first sports in which the "Club Sport" eclipsed the OHSAA sport in importance/exposure for players interested in playing at the collegiate level. In 2018-19, many of the sports (basketball, volleyball, lacrosse and others) are in the same boat as soccer. Athletes (and college coaches) now view Club Soccer, AAU/OYB Basketball, Club Volleyball, etc. to be the most important season of the year.
While NCAA/NAIA soccer coaches do attend OHSAA (and other State Associations') games, the numbers are relatively small. Up to 300 college coaches will attend the Disney College Showcase, the Adidas -- I mean Puma -- Blue Chip Showcase and other college tournaments.

The infamous OHSAA "half team" rule along with the others were put in with the right thoughts in mind. In 2018-19, they no longer reflect the realities of the HS Sports World. They need to be modified. However, interscholastic sports are still an important part of high school life in many cases. The above OHSAA rules present a double-edged sword. if ALL OHSAA rules above were eliminated, Club Coaches could train their players year round (including during the high school season). While this may be better for a player's development, it could also create more overuse injuries and create more friction between the OHSAA coach and the Club Coach.

The "half team" rule is likely the most problematic for players and the OHSAA. This rule impacts club team make-up from time to time. This rule also has a major negative impact on the development of Club Programs in more rural single-high-school communities. In large metro areas such as Columbus, there are many multi-high school suburbs (Lewis Center/Powell/Olentangy (4), Westerville (3), Dublin (3), Hilliard (3) and Worthinton (2)) that also have multiple club options within a 20-30 minute drive. While the five player rule can impact a Club Ohio or OP at a Dublin School or a Barca Academy/Classics Eagles at an Olentangy School, the impact is much less major.

For areas like Marysville or Jonathan Alder or Watkins Memorial among others, it is very difficult to create a solid club soccer program. Players know that once they reach U-15, the team will likely have to disband as they will struggle to be able to attract players from outside the community to participate. That challenge creates a cascading effect down to the U-13/U-14 level as well as players and their parents begin to prepare for the inevitable break-up of the team at U-15. Consequently, developing a strong pipeline of players via a club program from the youth program up through U-14/U-15 in these rural areas can be a real challenge.

While the examples I mentioned above pertain to Central Ohio, the same issues occur across the State. In my opinion, rolling back the "half team" (or five player rule in soccer) would actually be healthy for the OHSAA. It would allow for better development environments for many of the rural communities through the improvement of home-town clubs into the high school ages, while helping some players in larger communities as well (allowing them to stay with their club team without concern over the five player limitation).

Bottom Line: The single-sport players are already playing that sport all year round. Allowing an unlimited number of players from a high school would not create the environment the OHSAA's rules were designed to eliminate.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-16-18, 08:04 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-29-14
Posts: 2,897
Happygoluckky is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachnRef View Post
In a word, YES.

The entire purpose of this rule -- that spans across all sports -- dates back to a prior era. The rule has never been changed to reflect the reality of 2018-19.

Prior to the existence of the "half team" rule, some coaches would basically attempt to keep their high school teams practicing/playing all year round. If you wanted to play basketball for Great Basketball Team High School, you pretty much had to give up all other sports in order to be able to continue to be able to compete and remain in the GBTHS basketball program! I know, hard to believe ;-).

Over time, in an effort to ensure that players were not forced to be "one sport wonders" at a particular school, the OHSAA created a series of rules including:
1. The "half team" rule (no more than 50% of the number of players on the court/field during a "game" could play/practice as a unit outside of the official OHSAA Scholastic Season.
2. The OHSAA Scholastic Seasons were specifically defined in great detail.
3. Scholastic Coaches were only allowed to play/practice above the "half team" number for a given number of days (10) outside the prescribed OHSAA Scholastic Season during a specific period of time (varies by sport as to the specific time interval).
4. Scholastic Coaches were allowed to have access to players for certain non-direct sports-related sessions (i.e. conditioning WITHOUT using the actual ball used in that sport) during a specific period during the year (once again, varies by sport).
5. Scholastic Coaches had certain "Dark Periods" in which said coaches could not have ANY contact with the players.
6. Scholastic Coaches were prohibited from coaching their own players outside of the specific OHSAA Scholastic Season (a very well known Central Ohio Coach was suspended for allegedly violating this provision many years ago).
7. Teams/Players were prohibited from participating on multiple teams during the season (club and OHSAA or CYO and OHSAA Jr. high, for example).

In many ways, these rules caused the expansion of "club sports", not only in Ohio, but in other states as well. Soccer was one of the first sports in which the "Club Sport" eclipsed the OHSAA sport in importance/exposure for players interested in playing at the collegiate level. In 2018-19, many of the sports (basketball, volleyball, lacrosse and others) are in the same boat as soccer. Athletes (and college coaches) now view Club Soccer, AAU/OYB Basketball, Club Volleyball, etc. to be the most important season of the year.
While NCAA/NAIA soccer coaches do attend OHSAA (and other State Associations') games, the numbers are relatively small. Up to 300 college coaches will attend the Disney College Showcase, the Adidas -- I mean Puma -- Blue Chip Showcase and other college tournaments.

The infamous OHSAA "half team" rule along with the others were put in with the right thoughts in mind. In 2018-19, they no longer reflect the realities of the HS Sports World. They need to be modified. However, interscholastic sports are still an important part of high school life in many cases. The above OHSAA rules present a double-edged sword. if ALL OHSAA rules above were eliminated, Club Coaches could train their players year round (including during the high school season). While this may be better for a player's development, it could also create more overuse injuries and create more friction between the OHSAA coach and the Club Coach.

The "half team" rule is likely the most problematic for players and the OHSAA. This rule impacts club team make-up from time to time. This rule also has a major negative impact on the development of Club Programs in more rural single-high-school communities. In large metro areas such as Columbus, there are many multi-high school suburbs (Lewis Center/Powell/Olentangy (4), Westerville (3), Dublin (3), Hilliard (3) and Worthinton (2)) that also have multiple club options within a 20-30 minute drive. While the five player rule can impact a Club Ohio or OP at a Dublin School or a Barca Academy/Classics Eagles at an Olentangy School, the impact is much less major.

For areas like Marysville or Jonathan Alder or Watkins Memorial among others, it is very difficult to create a solid club soccer program. Players know that once they reach U-15, the team will likely have to disband as they will struggle to be able to attract players from outside the community to participate. That challenge creates a cascading effect down to the U-13/U-14 level as well as players and their parents begin to prepare for the inevitable break-up of the team at U-15. Consequently, developing a strong pipeline of players via a club program from the youth program up through U-14/U-15 in these rural areas can be a real challenge.

While the examples I mentioned above pertain to Central Ohio, the same issues occur across the State. In my opinion, rolling back the "half team" (or five player rule in soccer) would actually be healthy for the OHSAA. It would allow for better development environments for many of the rural communities through the improvement of home-town clubs into the high school ages, while helping some players in larger communities as well (allowing them to stay with their club team without concern over the five player limitation).

Bottom Line: The single-sport players are already playing that sport all year round. Allowing an unlimited number of players from a high school would not create the environment the OHSAA's rules were designed to eliminate.
Players in other states have a recruiting advantage over boys in Ohio for soccer. More exposure...more freedom to play for clubs and HS.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-16-18, 08:39 AM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 395
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
The whole rule is outdated. OSHSAA has made High School less optimal for players interested in playing college.
Yep, sure has. Kids that play HS soccer NEVER play in college. Sure.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-16-18, 09:57 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 451
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Players in other states have a recruiting advantage over boys in Ohio for soccer. More exposure...more freedom to play for clubs and HS.
This rule exists in other states, it's not limited to Ohio. Meanwhile, other states have varying rules anyway -- Oklahoma allows club competition/training during HS season, Kentucky has a 21 game regular season limit (Ohio is 16), Kentucky has tryouts and official practices starting around July 15 (Ohio is August 1), some states play boys soccer in the spring, some states play boys soccer in the winter, etc. These HS rules are all over the place.

This whole HS and college recruiting thing is way overblown. Want to know why colleges aren't as readily seen at HS games? THEY PLAY IN THE FALL! Same seasons do not make it easy for a coach (and his assistant/GA) to make it to HS games. What's easier? Watching one "showcase" or "tournament" in a weekend that has several hundred teams at it. What's more bang for the buck?

Oh, and club events are free. OHSAA still refuses to work with colleges and allow for free admittance, something I've communicated a number of times with OHSAA about. It's not hard to give recruiters free admission to watch some players to hopefully keep them in-state, furthering education, and competing at a higher level.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-16-18, 10:24 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-12-06
Posts: 9,375
winbypin will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
This whole HS and college recruiting thing is way overblown. Want to know why colleges aren't as readily seen at HS games? THEY PLAY IN THE FALL! Same seasons do not make it easy for a coach (and his assistant/GA) to make it to HS games. What's easier? Watching one "showcase" or "tournament" in a weekend that has several hundred teams at it. What's more bang for the buck?
I have been told by multiple college coaches they don't really recruit in the fall. One cited time with his family as he told us..."I'll drive by HS soccer games on my way home in the fall. He already misses to much family time in the fall as it is". Another said its per efficiency. Why go to a HS game where maybe 1 or 2 kids are seniors AND are college material when he can go to a club tournament and watch teams that are full of seniors and are college material? Most just say...we don't have the time in the fall to do a good job of recruiting so they focus in off-season.

And an added note...if you want a college coach to see you at a tournament and you know they will be there, you need to let them know your schedule. Don't count on them finding you at the tournaments.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-17-18, 07:01 AM
CMHCoachnRef CMHCoachnRef is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-29-10
Posts: 12
CMHCoachnRef is on a distinguished road
Are the OHSAA rules "optimal" for exposure? No, they are not. However, if a player desires to play a college sport, the OHSAA rules don't have a major impact.

I have seen many college coaches at both OHSAA basketball games (DURING the college basketball season) and OHSAA soccer games. Do they just stumble upon a game to see if there is anyone worth watching? Heck no! Unless a player is 5-Star prospect, coaches don't just "stop by" hoping to see a player they like. 95% of the time, the coach has been made aware of the player (by the player himself, by a club coach, by a high school coach, by a college player, or by a college coach) PRIOR to going to a high school game.

There have been many recruiting threads in the past, therefore, I won't delve into great detail, here. But, if a player is a good high school player who really wants to play on a college soccer team, he has a very good chance of getting there. The vast majority of these players do NOT get athletic scholarships (as they play at DIII schools that don't give athletic scholarships).

How do they get "scene" by college coaches? When their team plays in a college showcase tournament, they reach out to multiple college coaches who will be attending the event and let the coach know several pieces of information:
1. Graduation Year,
2. A few highlights about their career (club and HS) soccer-wise
3. A few highlights about their academic career (GPA, etc.) as DIII coaches can have access to lots of academic scholarship $$$$ when the academics are there
4. Why the player is interested in the school (do a little research on the team/coach)
5. How the player can help a team (scoring a ton of goals is great, but college coaches are not looking for attitude problems, they are looking for players willing to be flexible in position, playing time, etc.)
6. When/Where the team plays in the Showcase.

Contrary to what many believe, with the exception of the 5-Star or 4-Star athlete, most college players reached out to the school first expressing interest in the school as opposed to the other way around.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-18-18, 09:46 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-29-14
Posts: 2,897
Happygoluckky is on a distinguished road
Right now is peak recruiting season. CASL and then Disney showcases. This is wear the coaches are recruiting....a player from Ohio just finished HS and the club team is in preseason mode Other teams have been playing for months. I am not saying it prevent or makes college impossible. I am saying the rules do not help the players and a serious D1 prospect would be smart to not play HS....I can think of 8-10 players off the top of my head that did not play a season or two of HS for these reasons. Some came back for senior year after verbal commitment.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-19-18, 08:11 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-03-12
Posts: 2,128
Kballer is on a distinguished road
Lacrosse just became an OHSAA sanctioned sport in the past couple of years and this has been a huge issue as well. Since lacrosse is not as established as soccer, there are very few legit club teams to choose from for large high school rosters. Recruiting is only done in the club/showcase environment, not high school.One interesting twist is that coaches are putting together “Box” lacrosse teams with their players trying to skirt the 50% rule by saying it is not the same sport as lacrosse. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the OHSAA.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-20-18, 02:46 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 451
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Right now is peak recruiting season. CASL and then Disney showcases. This is wear the coaches are recruiting....a player from Ohio just finished HS and the club team is in preseason mode Other teams have been playing for months. I am not saying it prevent or makes college impossible. I am saying the rules do not help the players and a serious D1 prospect would be smart to not play HS....I can think of 8-10 players off the top of my head that did not play a season or two of HS for these reasons. Some came back for senior year after verbal commitment.
"Peak recruiting season" doesn't really stop. Any college coach will tell you that. Sure, CASL and Disney are popular right now, but there's massive showcases all over the states that are utilized at any given time.

States operate all different. It's interesting that there are "serious DI prospects" that do play HS soccer, so you are saying they're wrong?

As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-20-18, 11:53 PM
CMHCoachnRef CMHCoachnRef is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-29-10
Posts: 12
CMHCoachnRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Right now is peak recruiting season. CASL and then Disney showcases. This is wear the coaches are recruiting....a player from Ohio just finished HS and the club team is in preseason mode Other teams have been playing for months. I am not saying it prevent or makes college impossible. I am saying the rules do not help the players and a serious D1 prospect would be smart to not play HS....I can think of 8-10 players off the top of my head that did not play a season or two of HS for these reasons. Some came back for senior year after verbal commitment.
My son's team played at Disney four years in a row. The vast majority of the players on his team played in college. His team played in the National League for several years as well. They played in February against teams from Arizona, California, etc. and they competed just fine.

I really don't think playing club soccer over the top of the OHSAA season would make the players any better during these tournaments.

I am opposed to the five player rule, but for all of the "OHSAA soccer is bad" comments, allowing the player to play with classmates offsets the negative of being "club ready", in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-21-18, 08:41 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-29-14
Posts: 2,897
Happygoluckky is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachnRef View Post
My son's team played at Disney four years in a row. The vast majority of the players on his team played in college. His team played in the National League for several years as well. They played in February against teams from Arizona, California, etc. and they competed just fine.

I really don't think playing club soccer over the top of the OHSAA season would make the players any better during these tournaments.

I am opposed to the five player rule, but for all of the "OHSAA soccer is bad" comments, allowing the player to play with classmates offsets the negative of being "club ready", in my opinion.
I agree on HS soccer...but would see a benefit to a player having some contact and practice exposure with his club team during the season. Not full play/practices, but right now the rules are so stringent it is not player friendly.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-26-18, 11:32 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: North Side
Posts: 9,870
EastYoungstown will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
Lacrosse just became an OHSAA sanctioned sport in the past couple of years and this has been a huge issue as well. Since lacrosse is not as established as soccer, there are very few legit club teams to choose from for large high school rosters. Recruiting is only done in the club/showcase environment, not high school.One interesting twist is that coaches are putting together “Box” lacrosse teams with their players trying to skirt the 50% rule by saying it is not the same sport as lacrosse. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the OHSAA.
well... the OHSAA decided to let HS socer coaches coach futsal saying it was a different sport

so they wouldn't have a leg to stand on
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-26-18, 12:22 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-12-06
Posts: 9,375
winbypin will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
well... the OHSAA decided to let HS socer coaches coach futsal saying it was a different sport

so they wouldn't have a leg to stand on
HS coaches can coach club teams that have their HS players on it now too. The five player limit still applies though.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-26-18, 03:06 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: North Side
Posts: 9,870
EastYoungstown will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
HS coaches can coach club teams that have their HS players on it now too. The five player limit still applies though.
I was referring to his comment about it 'not being the same sport'
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Club Teams 2017/18 Brambleberry Boys Volleyball 90 02-27-18 01:04 PM
2017 Other Ohio Schools Schedules EagleFan Archives 41 10-25-17 10:49 AM
Heath D-2 District Rankings (Off Season #3) McClearn7 Wrestling 9 09-03-17 05:38 PM
Waite D-3 District Rankings (Off-Season #1) McClearn7 Wrestling 15 07-22-17 10:47 AM
Coshocton D-3 District Rankings (off season #1) McClearn7 Wrestling 3 05-30-17 07:19 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz