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  #3151  
Old 07-14-18, 01:04 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Long, LaValley, Reed, Stephenson and Santillan are all big league ready or near ready (2019). Only Greene, the best prospect, is years away.
You've argued about these guys both ways -- here, how they're practically big leaguers, then, in another post, how they're not very good at all (especially Reed and Stephenson, who you say can't crack the league's worst rotation).

Sorry, but this is a non-starter.
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  #3152  
Old 07-14-18, 01:53 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Indiandad,
Even though I once again don't see things the way you do, I thank you for bringing up the topic for discussion.
There are way too many of us on here that have to make every discussion about the Reds into a personal argument about who is smart or stupid.
As long as everyone agrees that I am the smartest guy when it comes to the Reds, I'm fine with everything lol.
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  #3153  
Old 07-14-18, 02:57 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I've argued that the the deal you've come up with makes no sense to either club. Obviously I believe every player is tradable. It's just what you'll get in return for that player. You're right, teams will take on the salary of an ex star but it's almost always with no time left on their contract. Usually a position player they could get some use out of. The problem with Bailey is they'll owe him $25M for next year, he'll take up not just a rotation spot but also a spot on the 25-40 man rosters. The only way for him not to take a spot would be if they DFA him which would still cost them the remainder of his contract. NO TEAM WILL TAKE THAT...

Nobody knows what the Mets are going to do. They're legit run by the worst baseball family in baseball. They make Mike Brown look like a genius. But I'd think a team with hopes of a deep run or possible World Series would offer a lot more than the Reds can or should. If the Reds are offering more then I'll have a big problem with their baseball operations department.

Once again Matt Harvey isn't getting extended. They'll take the best offer and he'll be off to a contender. He has no reason to take a small offer and Scott Boras is his agent. The Reds won't even be on his radar in FA.
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  #3154  
Old 07-14-18, 03:39 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Votto grounds into double play.

Interested to see how much the game-start temp (97!) drops due to the rain.

Incredible catch by Hamilton last night. One for the books.
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  #3155  
Old 07-14-18, 05:52 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
You've argued about these guys both ways -- here, how they're practically big leaguers, then, in another post, how they're not very good at all (especially Reed and Stephenson, who you say can't crack the league's worst rotation).

Sorry, but this is a non-starter.
Reed and Stephenson have had their shot, they’re just not good enough.
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  #3156  
Old 07-15-18, 01:21 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Reed and Stephenson both pitched with awful teams behind them. They're both 24-25 and controlled. Guessing you're in the minority when saying they're not good enough without the possibility of ever getting there.

I don't totally understand service time, and I've yet to meet even the most dedicated baseball writer that does, but these guys not getting called up when there are openings may be because of service time and the Reds not wanting to burn one of their options. I expect they'll be September call ups.

I really wish there was something the Reds could do with Homer. I know they aren't going to DFA him as it'd cost them too much but his roster spot is what's really costing the Reds at this point. For the next year and a half he'll take up innings that other's could use to get experience for a possible 2020 push.
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  #3157  
Old 07-15-18, 11:40 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Indiandad,
Even though I once again don't see things the way you do, I thank you for bringing up the topic for discussion.
There are way too many of us on here that have to make every discussion about the Reds into a personal argument about who is smart or stupid.
As long as everyone agrees that I am the smartest guy when it comes to the Reds, I'm fine with everything lol.
Alright smart guy , who would you target as acquisitions at the deadline or in the offseason and what would your offer be?
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  #3158  
Old 07-15-18, 11:56 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
You've argued about these guys both ways -- here, how they're practically big leaguers, then, in another post, how they're not very good at all (especially Reed and Stephenson, who you say can't crack the league's worst rotation).

Sorry, but this is a non-starter.
Reed and Stephenson certainly are not center pieces in any deal involving a proven, controllable pitcher. The center pieces would be Greene, Santillan and Long. Three of the Reds top 5 prospects. A very high price for sure for most teams but not necessarily for the Reds. Long is blocked as is LaValley (not unlike Alonso and Grandal were) and Reed and Stephenson are definitely expendable.

From the Mets perspective, assuming they want to tank the next 2 seasons to reload the system, Reed and Stephenson could certainly be useful in that regard (eating innings while Greene and Santillan and others develop while likely helping the team get high draft picks).

The Mets more than likely won't decide if they are moving their pitchers until they make some moves with position players. They need to refill the farm system and will try to do that by moving other guys first.
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  #3159  
Old 07-15-18, 12:19 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Mike Matheny out as St. Louis manager. Is he on the Reds short list for manager?
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  #3160  
Old 07-15-18, 12:30 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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LOL still pushing that trade for DeGrom and Syndergaard. Mets will NEVER even consider trading Syndergaard.
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  #3161  
Old 07-15-18, 12:31 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Mike Matheny out as St. Louis manager. Is he on the Reds short list for manager?
Why would he be? He was sub par in StL the past few seasons. I know the Cards are a better org than the Reds, but they don’t need to always take their scraps.

Last edited by Dale Cooper; 07-15-18 at 12:56 PM..
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  #3162  
Old 07-15-18, 12:35 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Comparing Reds to Cardinals, only Molina of the 8 positional players could crack the starting lineup, IMO. Reds bullpen also superior. Cards only strength is SP rotation. Now compare W-L record. How important is starting pitching?
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  #3163  
Old 07-15-18, 12:38 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
LOL still pushing that trade for DeGrom and Syndergaard. Mets will NEVER even consider trading Syndergaard.
I'm not "pushing" for it. I have no control over the Reds FO decisions. I was simply responding to others post.
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  #3164  
Old 07-15-18, 12:40 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Comparing Reds to Cardinals, only Molina of the 8 positional players could crack the starting lineup, IMO. Reds bullpen also superior. Cards only strength is SP rotation. Now compare W-L record. How important is starting pitching?
Even more telling, The Reds have the 3rd highest scoring offense in the NL and the 26th best ERA.
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  #3165  
Old 07-15-18, 12:42 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Comparing Reds to Cardinals, only Molina of the 8 positional players could crack the starting lineup, IMO. Reds bullpen also superior. Cards only strength is SP rotation. Now compare W-L record. How important is starting pitching?
Who would you target via trade or offseason acquisition and what would your offer be?
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  #3166  
Old 07-15-18, 12:57 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Comparing Reds to Cardinals, only Molina of the 8 positional players could crack the starting lineup, IMO. Reds bullpen also superior. Cards only strength is SP rotation. Now compare W-L record. How important is starting pitching?
Pretty much.
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  #3167  
Old 07-15-18, 02:03 PM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Wonder how bad the Reds feel getting the Cards manager fired?
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  #3168  
Old 07-15-18, 02:54 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Why would he be? He was sub par in StL the past few seasons. I know the Cards are a better org than the Reds, but they don’t need to always take their scraps.
Matheny has a .555 winning percentage over his career. He was not sub par the last few seasons. The talent was. It's not like he forgot how to manage.


To simply write him off because of his Cardinal connection is stupid.
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  #3169  
Old 07-15-18, 03:30 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Alright smart guy , who would you target as acquisitions at the deadline or in the offseason and what would your offer be?
Uh......"smart guy"......you mean me? I think you've got the wrong man, officer sir. .
No, I'm one of those guys who waits for the true smart guys (like you, of course) to propose a trade; and then stand back in the bushes and criticize. See, you give me way too much credit (I think ).
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  #3170  
Old 07-15-18, 04:18 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Seriously, I've never been one to think about possible trades and the like. I'm perfectly happy to sit back and watch what the Reds do.
Nothing wrong with speculating. I'm sure it's fun.
I really don't understand how people get so worked up about it, though.
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  #3171  
Old 07-15-18, 09:05 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Taylor Trammel is the Futures Game MVP. His emergence should make it easier to trade Billy Hamilton
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  #3172  
Old 07-15-18, 09:40 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Matheny's on nobody's short list as manager and it has nothing to do with his skills as a coach. His destiny was decided for him earlier this week when the Athletic reported he was in favor of veterans bullying younger players and called the younger guys soft. It completely split the locker room and became a distraction that wasn't going to go away. The timing gives the Cardinals a week for the news cycle to change during the All-Star Break which will lead straight into trade season.

The Reds are in a good position as they move towards the deadline. The only person they have to trade is Harvey. Everyone else is controlled through next year. There's also no glaring need outside of SP. I know the stats but let's remember the first 20 plus games are a major reason they're sitting at 26 right now. Not the same staff they had then.

I'm not a fan of giving trading top prospects with hopes of winning next year. I honestly think the best case scenario to make a real run would be 2020-21. If a team makes the right offer than sure. History shows us at the deadline "Buyers" normally give up prospects for a player(s) that will be an immediate improvement to their roster, while "Sellers" give up a key player(s) for prospects in hopes it helps their future. I'm not sure the Reds really fall into either category. Scooter appears to be their best trade chip but without any need for 2B his value diminishes. Now if a contented has an injury in the next few weeks....
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  #3173  
Old 07-15-18, 09:43 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Taylor Trammel is the Futures Game MVP. His emergence should make it easier to trade Billy Hamilton
Trammel is in high A. He is still a couple of years away.
While Trammel is the long term plan, he won't be up next year. Friedl will likely get a shot next spring to showcase his skills.
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  #3174  
Old 07-15-18, 10:17 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
Matheny's on nobody's short list as manager and it has nothing to do with his skills as a coach. His destiny was decided for him earlier this week when the Athletic reported he was in favor of veterans bullying younger players and called the younger guys soft. It completely split the locker room and became a distraction that wasn't going to go away. The timing gives the Cardinals a week for the news cycle to change during the All-Star Break which will lead straight into trade season.

The Reds are in a good position as they move towards the deadline. The only person they have to trade is Harvey. Everyone else is controlled through next year. There's also no glaring need outside of SP. I know the stats but let's remember the first 20 plus games are a major reason they're sitting at 26 right now. Not the same staff they had then.

I'm not a fan of giving trading top prospects with hopes of winning next year. I honestly think the best case scenario to make a real run would be 2020-21. If a team makes the right offer than sure. History shows us at the deadline "Buyers" normally give up prospects for a player(s) that will be an immediate improvement to their roster, while "Sellers" give up a key player(s) for prospects in hopes it helps their future. I'm not sure the Reds really fall into either category. Scooter appears to be their best trade chip but without any need for 2B his value diminishes. Now if a contented has an injury in the next few weeks....
Yeah, the Reds are in an interesting position as they feel like they are on the right track yet have no real chance at the postseason this year.

First 35 games Reds have up 192 Runs (5.49/game). Since they have giving up 295 in 60 games (4.92/game).

While there has been some improvement, it still isn't good much less great. Offensively they scored 139 in the first 35 games (3.97/game). Since they have scored 318 Runs (5.3/game).

The Reds were 8-27 in the first 35 games. Since they are 35- 26. While the pitching has improved some it really has been all about the Offense. I don't think you can sit pat with us rotation and expect to win a title in the next 2 years.
If they aren't going to get the starting pitching by next spring either via trade or FA then they should be sellers in the next two weeks.
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  #3175  
Old 07-15-18, 11:46 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I'm fine with being sellers I just don't know what value any of their guys on the 25 man really have. Obviously Amir and Raisel would bring the biggest return but you then loose a key part in many of the teams wins.

I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the thought the Reds should win a title within the next 2-3 or even 5 years. I'm simply hoping they can compete for a playoff spot and hope for the best if they get there. It's my opinion that the Reds don't need to make a big move for a SP before the deadline or even during the offseason unless something falls in their lap. They should definitely be in the market next July and the following offseason. My reasoning, they'll march Homer Bailey out there every 5th day for the rest of this season and next.
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  #3176  
Old 07-16-18, 07:29 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Who would you target via trade or offseason acquisition and what would your offer be?
Via trade? No one - trading for a SP at the deadline isn't going to make this a playoff team. In the offseason you keep bringing up Kuechel, but unless they can get him cheap you don't waste your money there. He doesn't make you a playoff contender alone. Factor in the question why would he sign with the Reds and that's a whole other conversation. The Reds shouldn't make a big move for a FA until they're only 1-2 pieces away - clearly they're not there yet.
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  #3177  
Old 07-16-18, 09:25 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Trammel is in high A. He is still a couple of years away.
While Trammel is the long term plan, he won't be up next year. Friedl will likely get a shot next spring to showcase his skills.
He won’t be up until 2021. Still, it should be comforting knowing you’ve got this kid in your system of a deal for Hamilton comes up.
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  #3178  
Old 07-16-18, 10:48 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Good weekend in St. Louis, anytime we can go there and get 2/3 that's positive, we rarely beat them anywhere lately.

The Cardinal way may be in dire straits. One of the issues I've had with the Cardinal way is that they try to make every player a utility player and no one is above average defensively. Name a Cardinal in the last 10 years, other than Yadi Molina that you'd consider a great defensive player? In years past they've had enough top of the line starters to compensate for poor defense. Not any more. While the kid that threw yesterday is going to the all star game, I don't think he's going to last. He gets around the league one more time and he'll get figured out. You don't pitch as an unknown in Japan and suddenly become great. He got alot of high strike calls that wasn't a strike until this year. The Cardinal bullpen is awful.
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  #3179  
Old 07-16-18, 11:01 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Mike Matheney, would you like the Reds to look at him as a future manager?

I would. He's done nothing but win in St. Louis, he's no nonsense and doesn't care if he ruffles feathers.
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  #3180  
Old 07-16-18, 11:46 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Who would you target via trade or offseason acquisition and what would your offer be?
After falling about 20 games under .500 in May, the Reds are something like 36-25, which is strong. But still, after 96 games, we're 10 below .500 and 10 games out of wild card, with 8 teams ahead of us. So I wouldn't be a buyer at the deadline, no trade targets. Illogical to give up prospects for a rental.

Thus, I logically understand why you target the 2 Mets. They would be under control; not a rental. The simple fact is that the Mets would possibly trade DeGrom, but will certainly not trade Syndergaard. And you've overvalued marginal Reds prospects to try to make the deal work.

Having said that, the Reds 8 position players are really good, a couple bench pieces are decent, and the bullpen is pretty good. The Reds are 2-3 pieces shy of being a really strong team and playoff contender next year.

Unfortunately, those 2-3 pieces are the top 2-3 spots in the rotation. The guys we need for those spots as FA would be too expensive almost certainly. So we just have to stay the course with Castillo, Mahle, Disco, etc and hope they progress. Might be smarter to re-sign Scooter, keep the core positional guys intact, and try to win a bunch of 9-7 games.
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