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  #1681  
Old 04-20-18, 10:51 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I'd like someone to explain to me how they could make any assessment of Prices' managerial ability with the teams he's had?

Just saying..."he's an awful manager" is not factual, it's opinion. Tell me WHY!
I have told you why, and given many specific examples WHY you just choose to not understand them. Here is the most recent from less than a week ago.

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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Developing young pitchers is part physical, part mental. I saw the 5th and 6th innings last night. Castillo was around 90 pitches after 5, so no way is he going 9 for the CG shutout.

Therefore, after the Reds stretch the lead to 9-0, and Castillo runs the bases, why would ding-a-ling Price send him back out there? Let the kid be finished, he gets a W with 5 scoreless innings, and feels good about himself. Confidence means a lot.

Now he ends up with another messy line (6.2 IP, 4 ER), and he still sits there looking at his 6.75 ERA until his next start. A supposed pitching guru like Price needs to know how important the mental side is for young pitchers. Another dumb move that goes unnoticed by the uninformed.
I refuse to go find the other 100 examples for you. Can you give me 1 example of why you think he is good? We will wait...
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  #1682  
Old 04-20-18, 10:54 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I have told you why, and given many specific examples WHY you just choose to not understand them. Here is the most recent from less than a week ago.



I refuse to go find the other 100 examples for you. Can you give me 1 example of why you think he is good? We will wait...
That is what i was referring to. Sadly the mental game is lost on many folks
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  #1683  
Old 04-20-18, 10:58 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by MontetheCarlo View Post
Adam Rosales is banging around the minors. He really hustles and is great with the fans. Maybe he would come and manage. Or maybe Sabo. Or Pete.
I canít stand the idiocy of some fans. The same ones who want Barry Larkin to be Mgr are b1tching about the Reds not spending $ on FA. Dumb azzes donít understand the concept of capital allocation. They think $ is infinite or you can just cut/trade players at will to slash payroll.

Again, small mkt teams need to develop their own core of talent, then supplement the roster through FA. If youíre so passionate about the Reds, educate yourself ffs.
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  #1684  
Old 04-20-18, 10:59 AM
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He keeps bringing up you cant get good value when everyone knows you wont resign them. What all of us, except you, understood was that the writing was on the wall. We wanted to trade them at least a year prior when they were unloaded so we could get good value.

You can go back and look at the posts from those years in the Reds' threads and see many of us were calling to trade them and start the rebuild.

Had they done that, along with developing talent better the rebuild would be much further along. Instead we are stuck where we are bc of poor upper management decisions and a lack of developing players. As EP stated Price is a pitching guy but couldnt develop a starting pitcher to save his life.

The whole front office needs to be gutted. Wouldnt mind seeing new faces in the minor league coaching ranks either to help with that problem.
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  #1685  
Old 04-20-18, 11:03 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
That is what i was referring to. Sadly the mental game is lost on many folks
I saw people advocating promoting Hunter Green. Their argument was he has the physical tools, which is true. However, once again, these dopey f**ks donít understand the intricacies of the game. Thereís a massive mental component to pitching. He needs to face adversity and learn to pitch out of jams or go 6 innings when he doesnít have his best stuff. I doubt heís ever played in a game he didnít dominate. You put him in the Majors, he gets rocked if he canít handle bad breaks.
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  #1686  
Old 04-20-18, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
I canít stand the idiocy of some fans. The same ones who want Barry Larkin to be Mgr are b1tching about the Reds not spending $ on FA. Dumb azzes donít understand the concept of capital allocation. They think $ is infinite or you can just cut/trade players at will to slash payroll.

Again, small mkt teams need to develop their own core of talent, then supplement the roster through FA. If youíre so passionate about the Reds, educate yourself ffs.
Pboy keeping track of everyoneís opinions on Larkin and free agency.
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  #1687  
Old 04-20-18, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
I saw people advocating promoting Hunter Green. Their argument was he has the physical tools, which is true. However, once again, these dopey f**ks donít understand the intricacies of the game. Thereís a massive mental component to pitching. He needs to face adversity and learn to pitch out of jams or go 6 innings when he doesnít have his best stuff. I doubt heís ever played in a game he didnít dominate. You put him in the Majors, he gets rocked if he canít handle bad breaks.
You spend too much time on Twitter and Facebook reading troll comments and extrapolating them to the rest of the fan base.
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  #1688  
Old 04-20-18, 11:04 AM
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I wanted to trade Billy when he was in the minors because I didnt think he had enough bat speed/couldnt hit. He was exposed and his value is next to nothing, even though some people thought the Giants wanted him ....we could have hauled in some good prospects for him at the time. I specifically wanted to trade him for pitching but Price would have messed them up anyway so it probably didnt matter. As a small market team you need to know when to sell high. Unfortunately the Reds dont understand this concept
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  #1689  
Old 04-20-18, 11:08 AM
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Where’s Indiadad? He thought this offense was going to rival the 27 Yankees.
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  #1690  
Old 04-20-18, 11:15 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
You spend too much time on Twitter and Facebook reading troll comments and extrapolating them to the rest of the fan base.
The push for Larkin is real.
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  #1691  
Old 04-20-18, 11:33 AM
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And Billy would have more runs as a pinch hitter
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  #1692  
Old 04-20-18, 11:36 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is online now
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Whereís Indiadad? He thought this offense was going to rival the 27 Yankees.
Seeking out trade partners willing to give up "3-4" top prospects for Iglasias.
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  #1693  
Old 04-20-18, 11:38 AM
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So Billy doesnt play for the Giants? We didnt get a haul of prospects for him?
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  #1694  
Old 04-20-18, 12:20 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
His calling card is pitching and the development of the young pitchers has been pathetic and injury ridden.
He was the manager, not pitching coach, and he's responsible for injuries?
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  #1695  
Old 04-20-18, 12:24 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
It has nothing to do with how I "feel". Rebuilding is not giving up, it is a necessity to stay competitive as a small market team.

You are just flat out wrong. It is widely talked about in baseball circles how mismanaged this rebuild was and it all starts with going all in on the 2014 season. All of their trade pieces brought less value than they could have.

The Cubs aren't in that situation, because the core of their team is still very young. They are also not a small market team. The fact that you simply ignore that there is a difference between small and large market baseball teams says a lot about how little you know about managing a franchise.
And you know that the Reds could have got more for an inconsistent, expensive Jay Bruce, or an often injured Johnny Cueto? How do you know this?
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  #1696  
Old 04-20-18, 12:29 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
He keeps bringing up you cant get good value when everyone knows you wont resign them. What all of us, except you, understood was that the writing was on the wall. We wanted to trade them at least a year prior when they were unloaded so we could get good value.

You can go back and look at the posts from those years in the Reds' threads and see many of us were calling to trade them and start the rebuild.

Had they done that, along with developing talent better the rebuild would be much further along. Instead we are stuck where we are bc of poor upper management decisions and a lack of developing players. As EP stated Price is a pitching guy but couldnt develop a starting pitcher to save his life.

The whole front office needs to be gutted. Wouldnt mind seeing new faces in the minor league coaching ranks either to help with that problem.
There we go...you've got the 2nd youngest team in baseball, and you want to blow it up and start over... AGAIN??? This is becoming very Cleveland Browns - esque... change the script every couple of years.

It takes TIME to develop baseball talent. Time and luck.
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  #1697  
Old 04-20-18, 12:31 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
I wanted to trade Billy when he was in the minors because I didnt think he had enough bat speed/couldnt hit. He was exposed and his value is next to nothing, even though some people thought the Giants wanted him ....we could have hauled in some good prospects for him at the time. I specifically wanted to trade him for pitching but Price would have messed them up anyway so it probably didnt matter. As a small market team you need to know when to sell high. Unfortunately the Reds dont understand this concept
Ha ha ha ha...and I wanted to sell all my stocks before the bottom dropped out of the market?? Are you serious??

So with your thinking, how about we dangle Senzel out there, see what we can get for him???
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  #1698  
Old 04-20-18, 01:16 PM
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Nah, Senzel can play.

It was pretty obvious Hamilton wasn’t going to have a productive MLB bat during his minor league stint. By 14red’s logic, if fundamentals change on a stock, you have to hold it and take whatever loss comes.
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  #1699  
Old 04-20-18, 01:25 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is online now
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Nah, Senzel can play.

It was pretty obvious Hamilton wasnít going to have a productive MLB bat during his minor league stint. By 14redís logic, if fundamentals change on a stock, you have to hold it and take whatever loss comes.
His brain can't even comprehend this statement. He just went ( X _ X ), total black out.
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  #1700  
Old 04-20-18, 02:20 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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14Red: You responded to a lot of other posts. I'm still waiting....

Give me one reason or example of Price being a good manager. I showed you above an example of incompetence.
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  #1701  
Old 04-20-18, 02:37 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
14Red: You responded to a lot of other posts. I'm still waiting....

Give me one reason or example of Price being a good manager. I showed you above an example of incompetence.
Price developed Joey Votto into one of the games best offensive players

Price developed Adam Duvall into an All Star

Price developed Todd Frazier into an All Star

Price developed Johnny Cueto into a top level starter

Price developed Alfredo Simon into being an All Star

Price developed Billy Hamilton into one of the leagues elite defensive centerfielders

Price developed Eugenio Suarez from an inconsistent shortstop to a legit major league 3rd baseman

There a few for you... the coin flips both ways...
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  #1702  
Old 04-20-18, 02:40 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Nah, Senzel can play.

It was pretty obvious Hamilton wasnít going to have a productive MLB bat during his minor league stint. By 14redís logic, if fundamentals change on a stock, you have to hold it and take whatever loss comes.
No one has ever debated Hamilton's lack of hitting. It's WHERE he hits. And this is the rub. Again, I say Again, this was the same deal with Drew Stubbs...unless you are going to have multiple guys lead off (which is fine) but most teams like to have a steady lead off hitter...then you had few choices to lead off than Stubbs and Hamilton. You can't lead off Winker if he's not your everyday right fielder. When Schebler comes back, Winker isn't your everyday right fielder again.
I'm amazed I have to explain this over and over and over.
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  #1703  
Old 04-20-18, 02:41 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
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And you know that the Reds could have got more for an inconsistent, expensive Jay Bruce, or an often injured Johnny Cueto? How do you know this?
Wasn't Cueto traded as a rental? Wasn't he also contending for the Cy Young during his last few years here? Most of his major injuries were in the rearview - his stock was sky high.
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  #1704  
Old 04-20-18, 02:41 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Nah, Senzel can play.

It was pretty obvious Hamilton wasnít going to have a productive MLB bat during his minor league stint. By 14redís logic, if fundamentals change on a stock, you have to hold it and take whatever loss comes.
This.
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  #1705  
Old 04-20-18, 02:43 PM
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Wasn't Cueto traded as a rental? Wasn't he also contending for the Cy Young during his last few years here? Most of his major injuries were in the rearview - his stock was sky high.
This
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  #1706  
Old 04-20-18, 02:58 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Price developed Joey Votto into one of the games best offensive players

Price developed Adam Duvall into an All Star

Price developed Todd Frazier into an All Star

Price developed Johnny Cueto into a top level starter

Price developed Alfredo Simon into being an All Star

Price developed Billy Hamilton into one of the leagues elite defensive centerfielders

Price developed Eugenio Suarez from an inconsistent shortstop to a legit major league 3rd baseman

There a few for you... the coin flips both ways...
Votto won one, and finished in the top 15 of 3 other, MVP awards before Price took over as manager. But sure, he's the reason Votto is one of the best offensive players.

Duvall played less than 100 games under Bryan Price before being named an All Star. He was not the reason Duvall is an All Star.

Todd was 3rd in ROY under Dusty, it was pretty clear he was going to go on to do some pretty great things no matter who the manager was.

I'll give you Cueto. He also hasn't come close to replicating that success since then.

Simon I'll give you. Went from the high 4's ERA to mid-high 2's his first couple years in Cincy at the ripe age of 31.

Billy Hamilton was considered a defensive stalwart since like 2010, Bryan Price did not develop him into a defensive stalwart.

Price is the manager, not the hitting or fielding coach. He does not get credit for developing Suarez.
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