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  #1  
Old 12-31-17, 01:42 PM
Publican Publican is offline
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What's up at Lake Catholic?

Is O'Donnell returning or will a change be made?
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  #2  
Old 01-02-18, 06:57 AM
lchsman lchsman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Publican View Post
Is O'Donnell returning or will a change be made?
He will be returning unfortunately. For how long, we shall see. There’s been numerous meetings in regards to the football program at LC. Sal was a train wreck who really screwed things up. Took forever, but that buffoon is finally out.

Baby steps, but I’m optimistic things are going to start moving in the right direction. People are done watching this program go to $hit. But due to certain circumstances and ignorant decisions made by Sal, it’s going to be tougher than most expected.
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Old 01-02-18, 09:17 AM
fbrox fbrox is offline
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Originally Posted by lchsman View Post
He will be returning unfortunately. For how long, we shall see. Thereís been numerous meetings in regards to the football program at LC. Sal was a train wreck who really screwed things up. Took forever, but that buffoon is finally out.

Baby steps, but Iím optimistic things are going to start moving in the right direction. People are done watching this program go to $hit. But due to certain circumstances and ignorant decisions made by Sal, itís going to be tougher than most expected.
What specifically did Sal do that impacted the program? The Bell dismissal? What can parents and others do to fix the situation? I'm not sure the response you have provided thus far is taking into account circumstances surrounding the program that weren't previously there in the glory days of the program.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-18, 09:32 AM
lchsman lchsman is offline
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Originally Posted by fbrox View Post
What specifically did Sal do that impacted the program? The Bell dismissal? What can parents and others do to fix the situation? I'm not sure the response you have provided thus far is taking into account circumstances surrounding the program that weren't previously there in the glory days of the program.
Circumstances? Please enlighten me.

What did Sal do? Are you serious?
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  #5  
Old 01-02-18, 10:50 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Regardless of whether OD stays or goes, LC has issues to get back to where it was. Frankly, I'm more more concerned with the overall position of the school beyond just the football program.

1. There are less feeder schools.

2. The major feeder schools are more split between LC and NDCL (i.e. St. Gabriel). Back in the day, LC got huge numbers out of Eastern Cuyahoga and Western Lake County parishes.

3. Kirtland and Mentor have been really good for a long time.

4. Tuition keeps going up. Tuition seems to have gone up at a rate of double the rate of inflation.

5. Overall numbers are down. We seem to be stuck in the 140-150 student class in terms of size. This is larger than a football problem.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-18, 11:10 AM
Viking/Falcon Viking/Falcon is offline
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Nothing is going to change until the school has an administration and athletic department that cares about what is good for the kids and the sports programs. In the past 3 seasons under the new coach the hockey program has gone from top 10 in the state to a 3rd 20 loss season pending this season. When numerous parents along with more importantly the players voice their concerns about the coach and the school does absolutely nothing this tells me the school just doesn't care. Every year no matter the school and the sport there are going to be parents and players that may be unhappy but I am going to guess the majority of schools would not have renewed their hockey coaches contract after what was presented to them following last hockey season and the number of complaints. After next season there more than likely will not be a team. I hope LC rights the ship soon. Lake Catholic is a better place when the football program is thriving.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-18, 11:21 AM
DB 04 DB 04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
Regardless of whether OD stays or goes, LC has issues to get back to where it was. Frankly, I'm more more concerned with the overall position of the school beyond just the football program.

1. There are less feeder schools.

2. The major feeder schools are more split between LC and NDCL (i.e. St. Gabriel). Back in the day, LC got huge numbers out of Eastern Cuyahoga and Western Lake County parishes.

3. Kirtland and Mentor have been really good for a long time.

4. Tuition keeps going up. Tuition seems to have gone up at a rate of double the rate of inflation.

5. Overall numbers are down. We seem to be stuck in the 140-150 student class in terms of size. This is larger than a football problem.

Nice excuse, but Sal is the reason Lake Catholic has had recent issues. Everywhere he goes, he is the problem. You have numerous people on here that have strong affiliations with their schools (Chanel, Benny, and Lake Catholic) and they are all saying the same thing. He was one of the main reasons Chanel closed it's doors, he almost closed the doors of Benedictine, and he has caused some serious issues at Lake Catholic. Lake Catholic will rebound (they are starting to), but it will need to take baby steps.

I have to give kudos to Lake Catholic finally having enough of his stupidity and arrogance. If you remember watching Taz on TV, think of him spinning around like a tornado causing complete destruction. Any male who defends this guy should be drinking wine coolers.
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Old 01-02-18, 11:30 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Those aren't excuses. They are reality. Just like Lake used to be D1 in the early 1980s and had 300-plus per class. But things change and LC settled into about 200 per class for the better part of two decades. But then things change again.

I have no doubt that Sal contributed to the issues, but it's naive to think there aren't larger issues at play.

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Originally Posted by DB 04 View Post
Nice excuse, but Sal is the reason Lake Catholic has had recent issues. Everywhere he goes, he is the problem. You have numerous people on here that have strong affiliations with their schools (Chanel, Benny, and Lake Catholic) and they are all saying the same thing. He was one of the main reasons Chanel closed it's doors, he almost closed the doors of Benedictine, and he has caused some serious issues at Lake Catholic. Lake Catholic will rebound (they are starting to), but it will need to take baby steps.

I have to give kudos to Lake Catholic finally having enough of his stupidity and arrogance. If you remember watching Taz on TV, think of him spinning around like a tornado causing complete destruction. Any male who defends this guy should be drinking wine coolers.
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  #9  
Old 01-02-18, 11:33 AM
DB 04 DB 04 is offline
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Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
Those aren't excuses. They are reality. Just like Lake used to be D1 in the early 1980s and had 300-plus per class. But things change and LC settled into about 200 per class for the better part of two decades. But then things change again.

I have no doubt that Sal contributed to the issues, but it's naive to think there aren't larger issues at play.
He was 95% of the problem.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-18, 11:41 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Agree to disagree. You can't ignore the demographics and other factors that are impacting the school as well.

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He was 95% of the problem.
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  #11  
Old 01-02-18, 11:57 AM
fbrox fbrox is offline
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Originally Posted by lchsman View Post
Circumstances? Please enlighten me.

What did Sal do? Are you serious?
The circumstances were very well covered when detailing a changing enrollment base. Couple that with LC not drawing football players out of Mentor due to the Triv factor along with rising tuition and competitiveness of Benedictine, NDCL, and even Eds and Iggy for lake county, eastern cuyahoga county, we see shared athletic resources. I don't know Sal, I ask specifically what actions did he take that harmed the football program? OD has a great staff at his disposal, if he can't get it done, I don't know who will.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-18, 12:28 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Out of curiousity, how many LC feeder schools have closed over the last decade or two?

1. Immaculate Conception (technically a merger with OLMC)
2. St. Mary Painesville
3. St. Mary Magdalene
4. St. Justin Martyr
5. St. Robert and William merged

Any others that I'm missing? How many great players from Lake's "glory days" came out of those schools?
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  #13  
Old 01-02-18, 11:30 PM
hoban2020 hoban2020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
Out of curiousity, how many LC feeder schools have closed over the last decade or two?

1. Immaculate Conception (technically a merger with OLMC)
2. St. Mary Painesville
3. St. Mary Magdalene
4. St. Justin Martyr
5. St. Robert and William merged

Any others that I'm missing? How many great players from Lake's "glory days" came out of those schools?

Thatís just Willoughby, Painesville, Willowick and Eastlake ... Iíd say thatís not minor. Though now a Hoban parent, I attended Lake way back in the day. My grade school 8th grade class had 90+ kids - divided between Lake, Joeís, NDA and publicís - probably 30+ who attended Lake. That grade school is now closed ... demographics of a community and the general change in western Lake County in the last generation plus.

Top players who came from those schools - Joe Jurevicius (SJM, no?), Rick Trefzger (OLMC), Sullivan brothers (also SJM ???) - my memory is challenging me.

The perception from outside the area is that the quality of the education isnít what it used to be - and thatís kind of shown in the state test scores. Others have posted the link in the past. Surely not worth $10k, when parents also have other good options for Catholic HS education in the area at NDCL, Gilmour, Iggy etc and better publics. The $40k over 4 years is a lot of money.


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  #14  
Old 01-03-18, 10:31 AM
DB 04 DB 04 is offline
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Originally Posted by hoban2020 View Post
Thatís just Willoughby, Painesville, Willowick and Eastlake ... Iíd say thatís not minor. Though now a Hoban parent, I attended Lake way back in the day. My grade school 8th grade class had 90+ kids - divided between Lake, Joeís, NDA and publicís - probably 30+ who attended Lake. That grade school is now closed ... demographics of a community and the general change in western Lake County in the last generation plus.

Top players who came from those schools - Joe Jurevicius (SJM, no?), Rick Trefzger (OLMC), Sullivan brothers (also SJM ???) - my memory is challenging me.

The perception from outside the area is that the quality of the education isnít what it used to be - and thatís kind of shown in the state test scores. Others have posted the link in the past. Surely not worth $10k, when parents also have other good options for Catholic HS education in the area at NDCL, Gilmour, Iggy etc and better publics. The $40k over 4 years is a lot of money.


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-Eastlake made the playoffs for the first time. Hopefully they can maintain a playoff tradition.

-Willoughby is booming with millenials. I see more tax dollars going to the school systems. This could be a problem for Lake Catholic.

-Catholic grade schools are struggling. I really think the recession and poor leadership by the Diocese of Cleveland and the pastors are the reason for the decline.

-Lake Catholic lost a lot of kids to VASJ and NDCL. Sal was the reason for this. With him being gone, the Lake Catholic alumni can unite the alumni, bring coaches back, and bring back that competitive attitude on the field and in the classroom.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-18, 11:21 AM
Publican Publican is offline
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My concern is that yes Sal is gone.....but O'd is still here.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-18, 11:28 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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A big chunk of Lake's defining players from the 80s and 90s came from schools that no longer exist or have been forced to merge with other schools.

In terms of education, I'm not sure Lake was ever "great". It was the school that middle class Catholic families sent their kids to from the 1970s into the 1990s. Middle to upper middle class. It was good. Not elite. The majority of students were going to local privates (JCU, BW), non-OSU publics (BG, OU, Miami) or doing Lakeland/CSU while living at home. And that worked when the tuition was lower.

My criticism of Catholic education in general has been the move to this "elitism". It's no longer about the rank and file Catholic family. It's about the highest test scores and what colleges you can get you kids into. Nothing wrong with that but it very much changes the cost dynamic of the education and the types of families you're appealing to. At $10k per year, I'm not sure many Catholic families making $75k a year are sending their kids to a Catholic school. And that's the bread and butter of who lives in Lake County. And even for the Catholic families that could afford, there's less kids in the pipeline due to the already discussed grade school closings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoban2020 View Post
Thatís just Willoughby, Painesville, Willowick and Eastlake ... Iíd say thatís not minor. Though now a Hoban parent, I attended Lake way back in the day. My grade school 8th grade class had 90+ kids - divided between Lake, Joeís, NDA and publicís - probably 30+ who attended Lake. That grade school is now closed ... demographics of a community and the general change in western Lake County in the last generation plus.

Top players who came from those schools - Joe Jurevicius (SJM, no?), Rick Trefzger (OLMC), Sullivan brothers (also SJM ???) - my memory is challenging me.

The perception from outside the area is that the quality of the education isnít what it used to be - and thatís kind of shown in the state test scores. Others have posted the link in the past. Surely not worth $10k, when parents also have other good options for Catholic HS education in the area at NDCL, Gilmour, Iggy etc and better publics. The $40k over 4 years is a lot of money.


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  #17  
Old 01-04-18, 11:29 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Even when OD is gone, it doesn't solve the larger problems. Also, who would you get to replace him? I think that's been part of the issue. There's no clear cut person you could get that the unhappy alumni would embrace.

Anybody else wonder what might have been if Lombardo hadn't gotten a DUI?

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My concern is that yes Sal is gone.....but O'd is still here.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-18, 03:29 PM
lchsman lchsman is offline
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New year, and somethings never change. Still deflecting and defending.

Hey lc5397.....if itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the girls soccer team in the State Championship 2 months ago? If itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the girls volleyball team at states 2 months ago? If itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the cross country team at states for the first time ever 2 months ago? If you want to talk about winter sports, the boys basketball team is 9-0 and ready to start the best 3 year run in hoops history. Wrestling...theyíre always good. Just like football USED to be.

Give me a break. And to be honest, you shouldnít even be commenting on this thread. You blow so much bull crap on here itís laughable. If you really want me to pick apart everyone of your ridiculous responses, just say the word. Youíve no clue what youíre talking about.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-18, 03:32 PM
lchsman lchsman is offline
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Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
Even when OD is gone, it doesn't solve the larger problems. Also, who would you get to replace him? I think that's been part of the issue. There's no clear cut person you could get that the unhappy alumni would embrace.

Anybody else wonder what might have been if Lombardo hadn't gotten a DUI?
Ok. So your answer is letís just keep OD? Sounds like an awesome plan.

Larger problems? Keep chirping.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-18, 03:32 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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new coach yet?
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  #21  
Old 01-04-18, 09:11 PM
hoban2020 hoban2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
A big chunk of Lake's defining players from the 80s and 90s came from schools that no longer exist or have been forced to merge with other schools.

In terms of education, I'm not sure Lake was ever "great". It was the school that middle class Catholic families sent their kids to from the 1970s into the 1990s. Middle to upper middle class. It was good. Not elite. The majority of students were going to local privates (JCU, BW), non-OSU publics (BG, OU, Miami) or doing Lakeland/CSU while living at home. And that worked when the tuition was lower.

My criticism of Catholic education in general has been the move to this "elitism". It's no longer about the rank and file Catholic family. It's about the highest test scores and what colleges you can get you kids into. Nothing wrong with that but it very much changes the cost dynamic of the education and the types of families you're appealing to. At $10k per year, I'm not sure many Catholic families making $75k a year are sending their kids to a Catholic school. And that's the bread and butter of who lives in Lake County. And even for the Catholic families that could afford, there's less kids in the pipeline due to the already discussed grade school closings.
Thank you for the well-written dialogue. Your entire post hits the nail on the head, not just for Lake or Hoban, but for the broader issues of Catholic education.

Your paragraph on the cost of Catholic education is incredibly correct. The middle class families don't send kids as much to Catholic schools. Doing some basic math, Catholic HS education has increased roughly 6% per year since when I graduated way too long ago. I found a website that tells me that general inflation in the same time frame is 2.7%. Take that 3+% per year over a few decades and the gap widens a bunch.

Kids feel the "need" to go away for school far more than we ever did. Your comment on Lakeland/CSU, Ohio publics, JCU/BW is perfect. That was my family - middle class and the colleges you listed. So many more from our class ended up at those schools than today.

Funny thing about your comment on colleges is that parents fail to realize that most kids get into most colleges. If you're not applying to some elite school, they'll gladly take most parents' money for 4 years. Scholarships are better with improved grades and test scores - but for the middling 3.2 GPA/23 ACT kid, you're getting into almost every school you're applying because they want a paying customer of $80k-$100k over 4 years.
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  #22  
Old 01-05-18, 01:14 AM
lchsman lchsman is offline
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Originally Posted by fbrox View Post
The circumstances were very well covered when detailing a changing enrollment base. Couple that with LC not drawing football players out of Mentor due to the Triv factor along with rising tuition and competitiveness of Benedictine, NDCL, and even Eds and Iggy for lake county, eastern cuyahoga county, we see shared athletic resources. I don't know Sal, I ask specifically what actions did he take that harmed the football program? OD has a great staff at his disposal, if he can't get it done, I don't know who will.
I’m not getting into what Sal did on here. You can research my old posts about Sal and find out. Yes, he was the primary reason of Bell getting fired. Yes, he and the principal, another Sal crony, is the reason OD is the HC. But there is way more to it, like some of the people that were chosen for administrative positions at the school, not just football, thanks to Sal. And now the new president, a great guy, and an LC guy, that sent 5 kids to LC, has very little or no say in administrative decisions. That is where the problem is now.

There was not an enrollment issue when Bell was coach. In fact, enrollment was up due to Chanel closing in 2013. And Triv factor? Mentor has been good now for 15 years, not 5. Lake’s slump began in 2013. LC was in the final 4 in 2009 and 2010, and a regional semifinal appearance in 2011, a year in which they graduated 21 seniors from the prior season.

So what has happened to the football program the last 5 years? Enrollment has dropped, but LC seems to be attracting athletes for other sports. The basketball team is young and very talented, but more importantly, you’ve a coach in Matt Moran, that’s engaged with the kids, a man that the kids respect, and want to play for. Can we say the same for OD?

Some valid points made by some on here in regards to the enrollment. But when I speak to parents in 8th grade from Gabes, St. Mary’ Chardon, heck even NDES, they say...I wish my kid can play basketball at Lake, but football at NDCL. So yes, the perception around LC football has changed. But for people to sit here and say OD is not the problem with the football program, and the reasons are demographics, or Mentor and Kirtland are good now, really needs to have their head examined. There has been numerous influential people that have asked OD kindly to step away from the HC position, and he just stares these people in the face like everything is great. Remember, OD is also the dean of students. And like I’ve always said on here, I like OD as a person.

Either way, we can all argue on here about what’s best for LC. The only thing I’m confident in saying is this...a change has to be made. There is a lot of good people at LC, very generous people, that are now boycotting LC completely because of OD and the current state of the football program.
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  #23  
Old 01-05-18, 08:48 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Not my answer at all. My point is that a lot of things needs to be thought through. Many of which have nothing to do with football.

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Ok. So your answer is letís just keep OD? Sounds like an awesome plan.

Larger problems? Keep chirping.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-18, 09:04 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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I think this is a separate conversation, but a point I've made in the past as well. As a Division III school (I know we're DII now due to competitive balance), it's really hard to be really good in a lot of sports. Realistically, you need 80-100 players in the building (9-12) to run the kind of program Lake used to be. That's a tough number to hit when you're trending to having 300 boys in the building as the new normal. And that's before you factor in the kids playing those other sports at a high level and you've added sports over the years (hockey, lacrosse, rugby).

I don't think it's a coincidence that Lake's best years in football where generally the same years that the other sports were very average. Wrestling was great but that was also back when there was a lot more crossover between the football and wrestling teams.

And let's not pretend that wrestling has ALWAYS been great. They've had a decade of being pretty average before the last year or two. They've generally had one or two guys able to make a run in Columbus but it's a shadow of what they were in the 80s and 90s.

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if itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the girls soccer team in the State Championship 2 months ago? If itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the girls volleyball team at states 2 months ago? If itís so bad at Lake Catholic, why was the cross country team at states for the first time ever 2 months ago? If you want to talk about winter sports, the boys basketball team is 9-0 and ready to start the best 3 year run in hoops history.
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Old 01-05-18, 09:32 AM
Publican Publican is offline
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I agree with lchs. A change has to be made in the football program. It is a personality issue. O'd is not a likable guy. The kids do not respect him.
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  #26  
Old 01-05-18, 01:53 PM
fbrox fbrox is offline
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I agree with lchs. A change has to be made in the football program. It is a personality issue. O'd is not a likable guy. The kids do not respect him.
That's too bad that they don't respect him. Maybe he should put on game film from the 92' team. In my opinion, he was the heart and soul of that team. They had great players like Jurevicius, llaqua, Jelovic and others but OD left it all on the field. He was not the most talented player on the field but his heart and effort level made him the most physical player out there. He has a great coaching staff at his disposal, they should be able to maximize their talent.
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  #27  
Old 01-06-18, 05:43 PM
Publican Publican is offline
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No question about Scott as a player. Definite over achiever. I saw him play. I have watched Cougar football since the early 1990's.The issue is how he relates to players not his ability to play.
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Old 01-06-18, 07:27 PM
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What was the story with Bell being chased out of there? He's seems to be a great guy and solid coach. Why did they get rid of him?
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