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  #61  
Old 12-09-17, 07:42 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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I never wanted the US to struggle during the Obama and Clinton years. Seems like many of the posters on here would be happy if things go bad in this country just because of Trump hate.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-17, 07:55 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
I never wanted the US to struggle during the Obama and Clinton years. Seems like many of the posters on here would be happy if things go bad in this country just because of Trump hate.
Both sides are equally guilty of this, and it's been going on for a pretty long time.
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  #63  
Old 12-09-17, 08:14 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Both sides are equally guilty of this, and it's been going on for a pretty long time.
And is getting worse and worse
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  #64  
Old 12-09-17, 09:02 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
she ran out of human blood....kinda tipsy...
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  #65  
Old 12-09-17, 09:16 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Can Trump explain any conservative model of economics - vanilla Smith/Ricardo/Mill laissez faire, basic Friedman monetarist school, Austrian school, early Keynesian, post Keynesian, new Classical, anything? Does he know the differences between them? Does he have a preference? I don't think so. Tie him in a chair and slap him with a rubber hose and he'll spew some annoying melange of Krugman, MMT, and non-economic Kraussian dumbfucquery.

Give money to land speculators living off overrated brands with zero economic value, eminent domain seizures, government rent subsidies, and generous bankruptcy laws.

Economically, he's incoherent.
just babbling on....he has created jobs......something a TRUE politician can never say
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  #66  
Old 12-09-17, 09:17 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
There you go bringing up President Obama just like Donnie does all the time. Trump is terrible but you guys come up with every excuse in the book to protect him.
how many times did Bama bring up Bush's name over 8 years.....
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  #67  
Old 12-09-17, 09:20 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
A costly war, on top of massive tax break for the wealthy, on top of resulting skyrocketed oil/gas prices, on top of skyrocketing healthcare costs (which precipitated ACA), and lax financial oversight, all contributed to our bankruptcy.

"Deficits don't matter", by a famous conservative.
something with the housing markets on GIVING everybody a fricken House loan......
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  #68  
Old 12-09-17, 09:21 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I also LOVE the 401K narrative. When this bubble bursts it will be hard to take for most. Especially the ones who truly have not recovered from the last Republican's economic bubble burst. I remember all the people in 2007 who were going to retire millionaires in in ten years.
aren't you a teacher or EX teacher or something like that?
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  #69  
Old 12-09-17, 09:22 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
A costly war, on top of massive tax break for the wealthy, on top of resulting skyrocketed oil/gas prices, on top of skyrocketing healthcare costs (which precipitated ACA), and lax financial oversight, all contributed to our bankruptcy.

"Deficits don't matter", by a famous conservative.
costly war..that the democrats voted for....
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  #70  
Old 12-09-17, 09:40 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
C'mon dude. I know you are smarter than this. The Dems controlled Congress at the tail end of the Bush years. The control of Congress and the WH for Bush's first 6 years created the bubble. All accomplished through the deregulation of the banking/lending industry and lack of oversight which directly led to the housing crisis. This is undeniable.

Raise your hand if you knew at least 5 folks who went out and secured a loan for a house they could not afford? Four to six years later they were walking away from their mortgage.

All arguing aside, can you agree that most people have still not fully recovered from 2008? I know plenty who have not and are making the same mistakes. Buckle up.
So, there wasn't a Bush policy that led to the bubble or the collapse. You went a long way to say, you're right, Bush wasn't responsible. You correctly couldn't identify a Bush policy or legislation that led to the bubble or the collapse. You didn't even try and that's good, because there wasn't anything. However to believe that just because Bush was president he was to blame is misdirected.

I'd suggest you read - THE COLLAPSE OF FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC: VICTIMS OR VILLAINS
The Financial Crisis and the Bank Deregulation Myth

I do not personally know anyone that has not recovered. That does not mean that I believe that everyone has recovered.
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  #71  
Old 12-10-17, 01:55 AM
BoomBoom BoomBoom is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
So, there wasn't a Bush policy that led to the bubble or the collapse. You went a long way to say, you're right, Bush wasn't responsible. You correctly couldn't identify a Bush policy or legislation that led to the bubble or the collapse. You didn't even try and that's good, because there wasn't anything. However to believe that just because Bush was president he was to blame is misdirected.

I'd suggest you read - THE COLLAPSE OF FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC: VICTIMS OR VILLAINS
The Financial Crisis and the Bank Deregulation Myth

I do not personally know anyone that has not recovered. That does not mean that I believe that everyone has recovered.
how about Gulf WarII and constant "CODE RED TERROR ALERTS" causing consumer confidence to plummet through the basement, followed by reduction of interest rates (overnight rate) to 1% (March 2004) and turning on the afterburners to stimulate real estate market, plus zero down, don't even verify employment or income 110% of actual value of real estate ARMS financing and inflating real estate values .. when the FED increased interest rates in 2004- 2007, the ARMS reset, the buyers couldn't afford the payments and the cascade of "toxic mortgages" in the securitized junk arbitraged real estate investment portfolios caused the whole thing to collapse?

you forgot about Gulf WarII and the Color Code System of Terror alerts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/25/us/25colors.html
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  #72  
Old 12-10-17, 04:12 AM
domi domi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
just babbling on....he has created jobs......something a TRUE politician can never say
Please explain how Trump has created jobs and how those new jobs numbers compare to the first ten months of last year.

If you're a republican things are awesome now and were horrible a year ago.
If you're a democrat things suck now but were great a year ago.
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  #73  
Old 12-10-17, 09:01 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
......

you forgot about Gulf WarII and the Color Code System of Terror alerts?

......
No, they just had nothing to do with a bubble that began to build in the 1970s and accelerated in the 1990s. You left out the fact that without a complicit FNMA/FDMC and Democrat-controlled Congress there was no way a secondary market for non-conforming securities could have happened. Concentrate on the problem and not some convoluted connection that isn't there.

The entire federal government (Executive, Legislative, Judicial) and all political parties authorized the use of force to hunt down terrorists and eliminate governments that not only harbored terrorists but supported them. Congress authorized the creation of Homeland Security and gave them the power to not only direct our protective forces but to let the American people understand the level of threat we were facing. But again, that had nothing to do with the housing bubble and the collapse of that bubble.
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  #74  
Old 12-10-17, 09:16 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domi View Post
Please explain how Trump has created jobs and how those new jobs numbers compare to the first ten months of last year.

If you're a republican things are awesome now and were horrible a year ago.
If you're a democrat things suck now but were great a year ago.
Good question, and the answer is actually quite simple - optimism. Obama was a terrible president and his handling of the recession was textbook wrong. He attempted to do the same things that FDR did in the 1930s and they were equally ineffective. Barry followed the FDR playbook, paid back some political debts, used MASSIVE amounts of Taxpayer dollars to do so and the results were very similar - "created jobs" for thousands of dollars more that the jobs were worth. At one point in the spendulous package the DOL was forced to admit that some of the $50K jobs "created or saved" actually cost Taxpayers $200K-$300K each.

How would you compare 1.8% job growth in Obama's last calendar year to 2.5% in Trump's 1st?
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  #75  
Old 12-10-17, 09:48 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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A day in the life...

Inside Trumpís Hour-by-Hour Battle for Self-Preservation
With Twitter as his Excalibur, the president takes on his doubters, powered by long spells of cable news and a dozen Diet Cokes. But if Mr. Trump has yet to bend the presidency to his will, he is at least wrestling it to a draw.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/0...ws.google.com/
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  #76  
Old 12-10-17, 10:13 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Obama left Trump a very healthy economy. After inheriting a collapse.
The numbers were fake before, now they are real.
The Dow was real, tripling under Obama, but it left many uneducated white workers behind. Now, a rising stock market directly benefits them. End sarcasm.

The Down has been on an 8 year bull run. Will it go for another 8? Who knows. I would agree it has been "supercharged" even more in the short term, by promises of tax cuts and financial deregulation favoring the investor class, and massive spending. The real effects on middle class wages, healthcare costs, and most importantly budget deficit and debt reduction remain unclear. What is clear is that after 8 years of Tea Party activism and political outrage, that #1 above all else conversation has been suddenly irrelevant. At least to this point. Not like we haven't seen this movie before.

Finally, the criticisms directed at Trump have been less, if at all, directed at the economy, and more about his decency and fitness. He's at 32% - in a bull market. Where is he in a bear market? I don't think Pubs want to find out.
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  #77  
Old 12-10-17, 10:19 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Inside Trumpís Hour-by-Hour Battle for Self-Preservation
.........
Your condition has lasted more than 4 hours, you should get medical help right away........
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  #78  
Old 12-10-17, 10:22 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
.......He's at 32% - in a bull market. Where is he in a bear market?.....
Obama was at 65% in a bear market and 38% in a bull market....... what's your point?
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  #79  
Old 12-10-17, 10:48 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
just babbling on....
Not babbling, I think his point just went over your head.

Quote:
he has created jobs......something a TRUE politician can never say
The government can't create jobs.
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  #80  
Old 12-10-17, 11:01 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domi View Post
Please explain how Trump has created jobs and how those new jobs numbers compare to the first ten months of last year.

If you're a republican things are awesome now and were horrible a year ago.
If you're a democrat things suck now but were great a year ago.
Great post. As a Dem I can tell you I think things are awesome now. My problem with the POTUS is mainly his behavior. If President Trump would quit tweeting and ruling by division he'd gather FAR more support.

I'd assume you are making the point that the President has very little to do with any job creation?

Is what I do know is inflated booms in the stock market always result in one thing.
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  #81  
Old 12-10-17, 11:04 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
So, there wasn't a Bush policy that led to the bubble or the collapse. You went a long way to say, you're right, Bush wasn't responsible. You correctly couldn't identify a Bush policy or legislation that led to the bubble or the collapse. You didn't even try and that's good, because there wasn't anything. However to believe that just because Bush was president he was to blame is misdirected.

I'd suggest you read - THE COLLAPSE OF FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC: VICTIMS OR VILLAINS
The Financial Crisis and the Bank Deregulation Myth

I do not personally know anyone that has not recovered. That does not mean that I believe that everyone has recovered.
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...0031216-9.html

Quote:
One of the biggest hurdles to homeownership is getting money for a down payment. This administration has recognized that, and so today I'm honored to be here to sign a law that will help many low-income buyers to overcome that hurdle, and to achieve an important part of the American Dream.
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  #82  
Old 12-10-17, 11:08 AM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I also LOVE the 401K narrative. When this bubble bursts it will be hard to take for most. Especially the ones who truly have not recovered from the last Republican's economic bubble burst. I remember all the people in 2007 who were going to retire millionaires in in ten years.
Hey, I did it. Multimillionaire in fact. And if I could do it, a lot of other people should have been able to do it also.
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  #83  
Old 12-10-17, 11:10 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Good question, and the answer is actually quite simple - optimism. Obama was a terrible president and his handling of the recession was textbook wrong. He attempted to do the same things that FDR did in the 1930s and they were equally ineffective. Barry followed the FDR playbook, paid back some political debts, used MASSIVE amounts of Taxpayer dollars to do so and the results were very similar - "created jobs" for thousands of dollars more that the jobs were worth. At one point in the spendulous package the DOL was forced to admit that some of the $50K jobs "created or saved" actually cost Taxpayers $200K-$300K each.

How would you compare 1.8% job growth in Obama's last calendar year to 2.5% in Trump's 1st?
This is utter BS. Pure political slant. Obama actually picked up the ball that Bush was carrying. They both bailed out and it was the right thing to do. I notice no mention of Bush in your post.

The one place they both failed is the banks never learned a lesson and are already lobbying extremely hard to repeal much of what is in the Dodd-Frank Act which is scary.
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  #84  
Old 12-10-17, 11:12 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by arizonawildcat View Post
Hey, I did it. Multimillionaire in fact. And if I could do it, a lot of other people should have been able to do it also.
I'm glad. A fellow Jesuit no less. I'm sure your timing was impeccable.
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  #85  
Old 12-10-17, 11:17 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Great post. As a Dem I can tell you I think things are awesome now. My problem with the POTUS is mainly his behavior. If President Trump would quit tweeting and ruling by division he'd gather FAR more support.

I'd assume you are making the point that the President has very little to do with any job creation?

Is what I do know is inflated booms in the stock market always result in one thing.
If Trump never tweeted a single thing again, most of the libs would still hate him. If had never tweeted at all, ever, they would still be looking for a way to impeach him because they just don't like the outcome of the election. There is always opposition to the president by the other party but things went to 11 this time.
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  #86  
Old 12-10-17, 11:40 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post


The government can't create jobs.
1) According to the BLS 22 million people are employed by local, state and federal governments in the US.

2) legislative policy definitely has an impact on job creation in the private sector.
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  #87  
Old 12-10-17, 11:44 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
Please explain how Trump has created jobs and how those new jobs numbers compare to the first ten months of last year.
Obama left Trump a stalled economy. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. In fact it looked to be spinning its wheels as it slowly declined. You asked what has Trump done to stimulate the economy since taking over:

* Trump has enacted a number of executive orders that have strengthened the economy around ENERGY production & usage. His formal abandonment of the Paris Climate accord combined with his clearing the way for oil & natural gas pipeline development has accomplished two critical things: 1) triggered hiring by the energy industry & 2) Provided price and availability stability in energy going forward. #2 is especially critical to the manufacturing resurgence we're seeing.

* Trump has removed and/or simplified numerous federal regulations that were acting as a drag on the economy. These moves have resulted in real manufacturing gains and a strong sense of OPTIMISM by business in the US. OPTIMISM is one of the most important dynamics an economy can have. These in turn have led to a solid growth in jobs versus Obama's time in office.

* Real GDP appears to have moved up significantly since Trump took office largely based on the first two items listed above. There is a very real possibility that either this year or next year the US will see GDP growth of 3% or greater for a one year period. Something that the Obama administration NEVER achieved.

* Trump's aggressive push for corporate tax cuts has acted to stimulate business spending & hiring. If the GOP can make good on their promise look for even better job & GDP gains next year.

* Trump's immigration policies have created a higher demand for workers with some real gains in job creation & income. While this has resulted in some inflationary pressures, inflation remains low and we may be entering a virtuous cycle of job gains & income increases all with low inflation. As an aside, Hispanic unemployment has dropped to its lowest level ever. If this persists we may say a sea change in voting patterns as Hispanics move towards Trump in 2020.
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  #88  
Old 12-10-17, 12:46 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
1) According to the BLS 22 million people are employed by local, state and federal governments in the US.
Remove tax payer funding and how many of those jobs remain. The private sector is where job creation comes from.

Quote:
2) legislative policy definitely has an impact on job creation in the private sector.
I never said it didn't.
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  #89  
Old 12-10-17, 01:07 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
If Trump never tweeted a single thing again, most of the libs would still hate him. If had never tweeted at all, ever, they would still be looking for a way to impeach him because they just don't like the outcome of the election. There is always opposition to the president by the other party but things went to 11 this time.
If he acted more decent and quit tweeting stupid/childish $hit a lot more folks would jump on board.

And I do appreciate me a good Spinal Tap reference.
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  #90  
Old 12-10-17, 04:26 PM
Gulliotine Gulliotine is online now
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
He's at 32% - in a bull market.
Cite any poll (since the election) that has him at 32% overall approval...please...I need a good laugh.

You are fake news.
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