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  #1081  
Old 12-29-16, 05:51 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Since this just happened at the end of a college football game:

The situation:

4th and 6 from the 8 yard line. Trailing by 7 in the first overtime. Second team with possession (ie bottom of the 1st OT)

QB drops back to pass. Fumbles the ball. Defense picks it up and runs a couple of yards. Runner gets stripped of the ball and the offense recovers the ball. (In college, the game was over.)

So my question has two parts:

In HS, would the game still be over? (I'm assuming it would)
In HS, would the ruling change if it was only 3rd down?

Not real confident but it seems like as soon as the defense takes possession, that series is over. No returns allowed in HS. Is that correct?
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  #1082  
Old 12-30-16, 12:38 AM
bb9 bb9 is online now
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You are correct, as soon as the defense possesses the ball, the offensive possession ends.
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  #1083  
Old 12-30-16, 07:39 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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As soon as the defense gains possession of the ball, the ball is dead and the offensive series has ended, regardless of the down.
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  #1084  
Old 01-16-17, 09:12 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Did Dallas miss a chance to win the game…..

Green Bay vs Dallas.

With 3 seconds left in 2nd quarter. Green Bay punt the ball to Dallas.
The punt goes to about Dallas 40. IF Dallas would have fair caught the ball ,
Could Dallas “free kick: back to Green Bay with possible of scoring a Field goal ?
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  #1085  
Old 01-16-17, 10:46 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
Green Bay vs Dallas.

With 3 seconds left in 2nd quarter. Green Bay punt the ball to Dallas.
The punt goes to about Dallas 40. IF Dallas would have fair caught the ball ,
Could Dallas “free kick: back to Green Bay with possible of scoring a Field goal ?
Yes they could.

Have no idea why they passed on the opportunity.
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  #1086  
Old 01-23-17, 11:11 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Was that a SAFTEY during the Green Bay vs Atlanta ???

During the first half Green Bay fumble the ball
Did the Atlanta recover the fumble and roll into End Zone for a safety
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  #1087  
Old 01-23-17, 11:59 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
During the first half Green Bay fumble the ball
Did the Atlanta recover the fumble and roll into End Zone for a safety
This was reviewed (as all turnovers and scoring plays are) and it was determined that the ball was not possessed until he was in the end zone.
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  #1088  
Old 06-23-17, 11:33 PM
FattDC71 FattDC71 is offline
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Horsecollar and Facemasks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas7 View Post
Is there a horse collar call in HS ? ALSO ARE THERE 2 types of Facemask penalties or just 1 ?
I have never seen a Horsecollar tackle called in any of the games that I have seen or coached in. As far as I know, there is only one kind of facemask penalty in High School. There is only the 15-yard variety. I think the referees that I have seen would struggle to be able to differentiate between inadvertent and intentional facemasks.
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  #1089  
Old 06-25-17, 06:23 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattDC71 View Post
I have never seen a Horsecollar tackle called in any of the games that I have seen or coached in. As far as I know, there is only one kind of facemask penalty in High School. There is only the 15-yard variety. I think the referees that I have seen would struggle to be able to differentiate between inadvertent and intentional facemasks.
There are two face mask penalties in high school football, but the difference is not inadvertent and intentional. "Incidental grasping" of the face mask is a five yard penalty. "Grasping and twisting, turning or pulling" is a fifteen yard penalty. "Intent" has no part in the foul.

Horse collar doesn't get called very often because it doesn't happen very often. And like a lot of rules, the National Federation, NCAA, and NFL each has a slightly different rule.
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  #1090  
Old 08-19-17, 05:24 AM
king kong king kong is offline
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Offensive player A gets defensive player B on his back while blocking him. Player A continues to keep on top of him while the play continues well away from the block. Player B begins trying to get up off of his back, while A keeps laying on him and shifting his body to keep on top. This goes on for a bit. Is this a legal block?
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  #1091  
Old 08-19-17, 05:38 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
Offensive player A gets defensive player B on his back while blocking him. Player A continues to keep on top of him while the play continues well away from the block. Player B begins trying to get up off of his back, while A keeps laying on him and shifting his body to keep on top. This goes on for a bit. Is this a legal block?
There is no rule that prohibits one player keeping another on the ground. His actions of shifting his body to keep on top are no different than him shifting his body to stay in front had they been upright.

Unless the official judges that the player used his "hands or arms to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain an opponent other than the runner."(the definition of holding) .............

This is legal. If it occurs well away from the play, you most likely will have a conversation with that blocker as now you have the potential for some other activity between the two that could escalate into something other than football.

Last edited by AllSports12; 08-19-17 at 06:07 AM.
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  #1092  
Old 08-20-17, 10:40 AM
king kong king kong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
This is legal. If it occurs well away from the play, you most likely will have a conversation with that blocker as now you have the potential for some other activity between the two that could escalate into something other than football.
This is what happened, player B got to QB on pass and player A blocked him while QB scrambled away and threw the ball to the sidelines 10 yards downfield. The block occurs right in front of the white hat, now the problem was like you described, the receiver made a move and cut back to the middle of the field well away from the block and stayed on his feet for probably 6-8 seconds, so player B was on his back trying to get up for probably 8-10 seconds. Head refs body language was straight up and staring at the two on the ground. When whistles blew and play stopped both players remained engaged and other players on the field started running back as both sides started yelling. Players started to leave sidelines, coaches cut them off, fans yelling.

After the game I asked our head coach what the head ref said about the play. He said, coach I didn't say anything it's a legal block. Our coaches said, but it's 30 yards behind the play, I thought we were trying to clean up hits not involved within a certain distance of the action. Ref just said, keep your kids on the sidelines or they can be ejected!

Poor game management by this official, and the sad thing is I have worked closely with him for years as our former AD. I have watched him work games and verbally tell kids to quit or stop before he blew the whistle or threw a flag.
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  #1093  
Old 08-20-17, 12:05 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
This is what happened, player B got to QB on pass and player A blocked him while QB scrambled away and threw the ball to the sidelines 10 yards downfield. The block occurs right in front of the white hat, now the problem was like you described, the receiver made a move and cut back to the middle of the field well away from the block and stayed on his feet for probably 6-8 seconds, so player B was on his back trying to get up for probably 8-10 seconds. Head refs body language was straight up and staring at the two on the ground. When whistles blew and play stopped both players remained engaged and other players on the field started running back as both sides started yelling. Players started to leave sidelines, coaches cut them off, fans yelling.

After the game I asked our head coach what the head ref said about the play. He said, coach I didn't say anything it's a legal block. Our coaches said, but it's 30 yards behind the play, I thought we were trying to clean up hits not involved within a certain distance of the action. Ref just said, keep your kids on the sidelines or they can be ejected!

Poor game management by this official, and the sad thing is I have worked closely with him for years as our former AD. I have watched him work games and verbally tell kids to quit or stop before he blew the whistle or threw a flag.
What did you want the official to do? It sounds to me like he handled it perfectly.
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  #1094  
Old 08-20-17, 12:13 PM
king kong king kong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
What did you want the official to do? It sounds to me like he handled it perfectly.
You have never heard an official be pro active? A simple let him up would have sufficed. If it was near the play no problem, but 30 yards behind the play? I have heard and watched refs manage the game without assessing a penalty.

As for this play, this sparked a series of players to go away from playing football, and trying to get back at the other team. Flags for unnecessary roughness, taunting on both sides started flying after this play. All of that would have been avoidable with a simple, let him up!

I never said it was illegal and should be flagged.
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  #1095  
Old 08-20-17, 12:33 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
You have never heard an official be pro active? A simple let him up would have sufficed. If it was near the play no problem, but 30 yards behind the play? I have heard and watched refs manage the game without assessing a penalty.

As for this play, this sparked a series of players to go away from playing football, and trying to get back at the other team. Flags for unnecessary roughness, taunting on both sides started flying after this play. All of that would have been avoidable with a simple, let him up!

I never said it was illegal and should be flagged.
Sounds to me like the kids need to have better discipline. And yes I know what preventive officiating is but sometimes the players need to be accountable. Anyway this is the wrong thread for that debate.
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  #1096  
Old 08-20-17, 12:52 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post
You have never heard an official be pro active? A simple let him up would have sufficed. If it was near the play no problem, but 30 yards behind the play? I have heard and watched refs manage the game without assessing a penalty.

As for this play, this sparked a series of players to go away from playing football, and trying to get back at the other team. Flags for unnecessary roughness, taunting on both sides started flying after this play. All of that would have been avoidable with a simple, let him up!

I never said it was illegal and should be flagged.
If it's not illegal to lay on a player, why would anyone expect an official to tell the player who is legally laying on him to "let him up"?

I've had this many times and instructed the player on top as follows....... "don't hold him" !! That tells both players that I am watching.


The opposing player(s) reacting improperly is not the fault of the official here.

Last edited by AllSports12; 08-20-17 at 01:10 PM.
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  #1097  
Old 08-24-17, 12:19 PM
Plaindriver Plaindriver is offline
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Adornment Rules

What are the HSFB rules re adornment? I see many players with 2-3 wristbands, wristbands around their calves, and those skinny bands around their biceps, the purpose of which I cant imagine.
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  #1098  
Old 08-24-17, 04:34 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaindriver View Post
What are the HSFB rules re adornment? I see many players with 2-3 wristbands, wristbands around their calves, and those skinny bands around their biceps, the purpose of which I cant imagine.
Those are illegal.

They are permitted to wear a single sweat band provided it extends no more than three inches towards the elbow.
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  #1099  
Old 08-25-17, 09:29 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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Wondering if play was called correctly. Team A punts to Team B. B returns punt but has a block in the back call go against them. On the tackle by A they are called for a face mask penalty. I thought possession had changed so the penalties would offset and play would start at the location where B returned the punt. The call was offsetting, but they replayed 4th down. Correct call?
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  #1100  
Old 08-25-17, 10:41 PM
ideliver ideliver is offline
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Is holding on a punt return assessed from the spot of the foul or from where the punt was caught
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  #1101  
Old 08-26-17, 06:48 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Wondering if play was called correctly. Team A punts to Team B. B returns punt but has a block in the back call go against them. On the tackle by A they are called for a face mask penalty. I thought possession had changed so the penalties would offset and play would start at the location where B returned the punt. The call was offsetting, but they replayed 4th down. Correct call?

Because B came into possession of the ball free of a foul, (otherwise known as "Clean Hands") and both teams fouled after the change of possession, B has the first option with regards to penalty enforcement.

If B wants to keep the ball, they must decline A's penalty for the face mask foul. A then would obviously accept the penalty for the block in the back foul and B would begin a new series, 10 yards behind the spot of that foul, first and 10.

If B chooses to accept the penalty against A for the face mask foul, this creates a double foul, the penalties offset, and the down is replayed. (this sounds like what happened in the play you describe)

A third and very unusual possibility is that B declines A's penalty and A declines B's penalty. In this situation, B will begin a new series at the spot of the tackle, first and 10.
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  #1102  
Old 08-26-17, 06:49 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
Is holding on a punt return assessed from the spot of the foul or from where the punt was caught
If the hold occurs after the receiving team gained possession of the ball, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul.
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  #1103  
Old 08-26-17, 07:26 AM
bb9 bb9 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If the hold occurs after the receiving team gained possession of the ball, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul.
If it's during the kick then it's enforced from where the receiving team first possessed the ball or where the kick ended.
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  #1104  
Old 08-26-17, 03:50 PM
FRANKR2 FRANKR2 is offline
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During the Steubenville Big Red vs Upper St Clair game this play happened was wondering if it was called correct. The announcers stated the Upper St Clair wanted to know why Big Red got an untimed down.
Last play of 2nd quarter. Big Red scored an offensive TD but was penalized. The referees brought the play back and enforced the penalty and gave Big Red an untimed down which they scored on again. The Upper St Clair coach questioned the untimed down.
Am I correct if they didn't enforce the penalty on the original play the play would have stood and been a TD.
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  #1105  
Old 08-26-17, 08:12 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKR2 View Post
During the Steubenville Big Red vs Upper St Clair game this play happened was wondering if it was called correct. The announcers stated the Upper St Clair wanted to know why Big Red got an untimed down.
Last play of 2nd quarter. Big Red scored an offensive TD but was penalized. The referees brought the play back and enforced the penalty and gave Big Red an untimed down which they scored on again. The Upper St Clair coach questioned the untimed down.
Am I correct if they didn't enforce the penalty on the original play the play would have stood and been a TD.
If the penalty was declined you are correct.
If the penalty was accepted, an untimed down is in order.
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  #1106  
Old 08-26-17, 10:34 PM
nupanther nupanther is offline
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This happened at the Valley Christian- Campbell game. Valley attempts a 30 yard FG, which was deflected. The ball is rolling around the 6 yard line, when the Campbell player kicks it out of bounds. Flag is thrown and Campbell has the ball 1st at 10 from the 3. (Half the distance I presume) Correct call?
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  #1107  
Old 08-27-17, 07:21 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nupanther View Post
This happened at the Valley Christian- Campbell game. Valley attempts a 30 yard FG, which was deflected. The ball is rolling around the 6 yard line, when the Campbell player kicks it out of bounds. Flag is thrown and Campbell has the ball 1st at 10 from the 3. (Half the distance I presume) Correct call?
Yes. Illegal Kicking is a 15 yard penalty, and half the distance is the correct placement here.

A field goal can score three points, but other than that it is the same a punt.
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  #1108  
Old 08-30-17, 02:30 AM
mustang51 mustang51 is offline
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R catches punt on his two yard line. His momentum takes him in the endzone is he aloud to run it out or is it a touchback?
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  #1109  
Old 08-30-17, 06:14 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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A punt, or any kick, that breaks the plane of the goal line is a touchback, but once it is caught it is no longer a punt. So yeah, he can run it out.

But he wouldn't have to. In the play above, if the ball stays in the EZ and the play ends in the EZ, the momentum rule would bring the ball back out to where is was caught, the two yard line.
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  #1110  
Old 08-30-17, 10:39 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
A punt, or any kick, that breaks the plane of the goal line is a touchback, but once it is caught it is no longer a punt. So yeah, he can run it out.

But he wouldn't have to. In the play above, if the ball stays in the EZ and the play ends in the EZ, the momentum rule would bring the ball back out to where is was caught, the two yard line.
The momentum rule also applies to any defensive player intercepting an opponent's forward pass or when a defensive player intercepts or recovers an opponent's fumble or backward pass.
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