I umpired a very large tournament this past week end in Tyler Texas. There were several age brackets. I had 12 year olds. There were a mixture of traveling select teams and Little Leaguers. It was held at West Tyler Little League Fields (pull them up, nice fields where the State tourny is played) This was the first chance that I had to actually get to see Select vs. Little League heads up. A few notes. The fences were WAY to short and kids were hitting the ball out WAY to many times. No way should there be 3 or 4 homers a game. Just not realistic. The Little League teams had some very good players but the select traveling team kids were way ahead of them in both base running and pitching mechanics. It was very obvious to the trained eye which teams were going to meet in the semi-finals. Three select and one Little League. Two select in the finals. The pitchers coming from LL were not ready for the balks and had a very hard time adjusting to a true strike zone (if the ball does not hit the plate, it is a ball, no widening of the zone) I have to believe that a kid on a good traveling team is about two years ahead of what I witnessed this weekend. Not a slam. Some people believe in bringing a kid along slow, but if you are serious about making your kid the best, put em on a good select traveling team and let em play the best.
Sorry Woody, your baseball philosophy is as tired as your "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense. Kids can play Little League through 12 years old and not miss a beat. Not sure what happens in the Lone Star state but our boys back here in Ohio catch up quite nicely (with the proper coaching of course). In about one week of tournament competition and a couple of weeks of practice, kids pick up the lead offs, holding runners etc.
Nothing worse than watching a track meet at age 10 because kids can't make throws and teams just steal on every pitch. A single becomes a triple two pitches later, just stupid. Not sure that is how the game is supposed to be played. Plenty of time for the kids to play "real" baseball when they are mentally and physically prepared to do so.
The theory that it hampers their baseball growth in some way is just ignorant. Don't care what direction kids choose, but saying that kids are two years behind is nonsense.
Sorry Woody, your baseball philosophy is as tired as your "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense. Kids can play Little League through 12 years old and not miss a beat. Not sure what happens in the Lone Star state but our boys back here in Ohio catch up quite nicely (with the proper coaching of course). In about one week of tournament competition and a couple of weeks of practice, kids pick up the lead offs, holding runners etc.
Nothing worse than watching a track meet at age 10 because kids can't make throws and teams just steal on every pitch. A single becomes a triple two pitches later, just stupid. Not sure that is how the game is supposed to be played. Plenty of time for the kids to play "real" baseball when they are mentally and physically prepared to do so.
The theory that it hampers their baseball growth in some way is just ignorant. Don't care what direction kids choose, but saying that kids are two years behind is nonsense.
Lived it in Ohio.
Our high school varsity team does not have a single player on it that played LL beyond the age of 10. This is just one example, but in my neck of the woods, that's way it has played out for years. Play select or get left behind. I was even on the Board of Directors on the local LL. I left after watching a few 11 U select games. It was the right move for both my sons.
I umpired a very large tournament this past week end in Tyler Texas. There were several age brackets. I had 12 year olds. There were a mixture of traveling select teams and Little Leaguers. It was held at West Tyler Little League Fields (pull them up, nice fields where the State tourny is played) This was the first chance that I had to actually get to see Select vs. Little League heads up. A few notes. The fences were WAY to short and kids were hitting the ball out WAY to many times. No way should there be 3 or 4 homers a game. Just not realistic. The Little League teams had some very good players but the select traveling team kids were way ahead of them in both base running and pitching mechanics. It was very obvious to the trained eye which teams were going to meet in the semi-finals. Three select and one Little League. Two select in the finals. The pitchers coming from LL were not ready for the balks and had a very hard time adjusting to a true strike zone (if the ball does not hit the plate, it is a ball, no widening of the zone) I have to believe that a kid on a good traveling team is about two years ahead of what I witnessed this weekend. Not a slam. Some people believe in bringing a kid along slow, but if you are serious about making your kid the best, put em on a good select traveling team and let em play the best.
Just curious, when they switched the rules in this tournament to Little League rules, how did the select players do?
Did they have problems hitting the ball from 46'? How many times did they leave the base early? How many ground balls did they misplay into hits because of the shorter bases (ie take too long to make the throw)?
Wait a minute, you are probably going to tell me they didn't play by Little League rules, right? But you think it's fair to compare them and make a snap judgment. Also, how many of these select teams were all from the same community? Surely, you aren't going to tell me you are comparing teams with kids from one small community versus teams that select the best players from a wide geographic area are you? The fact that one team out of the top four is from a Little League is impressive to me. The disadvantage of Little League is the formation of teams (smaller pool of players) but on the individual level, Little League is great at replicating the speed of MLB.
Also, our community had a kid that played Little League through 12 years old and then was one of the best high school pitchers this year as a freshman. I've heard some local college scouts already have him on their radar. I'm sure DevilsAdvocate can back me up on this one.
The Butler County area of Ohio has produced some tremendous baseball talent for an area in a colder climate and such a small area. From that area 3 high schools have benefitted directly from the youth baseball in the area. Those 3 high schools have combined for 6 state titles and numerous other trips to the final four. Those 3 high schools have produced an inordinate amount of college and professional talent for the size of the area. The youth baseball that has produced that talent is predominantly Little League baseball. I have said many times on here, you take our WSLL teams and put them in the SWOL and they would do very well. Believe what you will.
Why cant you do both? I remember in 2003 seeing kids from Arizona at Cooprstown Dreams Park on a select Arizona team, Chandler Express they won the week by the way, and then later in the year seeing the same kids in Williamsport playing in the LL World Series for a team out of Chandler Arizona. Just wondering.
I think a lot depends on genes, reps and smart practice. The average kid benefits from the extra reps that select teams normally get, and that can put him ahead of others in his gene pool and get him a spot on his high school team. Lucky ones with superior genes (in the athletic department) have an unfair advantage and can play with dolls until they're 14, take up a sport and dominate. Not what we want to hear, but kind of the way it works. So my kids try to out work the competition to get that spot on the team and sometimes it means that a more physically gifted athlete won't get a chance because he didn't do the time.
Sorry Woody, your baseball philosophy is as tired as your "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense. Kids can play Little League through 12 years old and not miss a beat. Not sure what happens in the Lone Star state but our boys back here in Ohio catch up quite nicely (with the proper coaching of course). In about one week of tournament competition and a couple of weeks of practice, kids pick up the lead offs, holding runners etc.
Nothing worse than watching a track meet at age 10 because kids can't make throws and teams just steal on every pitch. A single becomes a triple two pitches later, just stupid. Not sure that is how the game is supposed to be played. Plenty of time for the kids to play "real" baseball when they are mentally and physically prepared to do so.
The theory that it hampers their baseball growth in some way is just ignorant. Don't care what direction kids choose, but saying that kids are two years behind is nonsense.
Lived it in Ohio.
They are AT LEAST 2 years behind. I lived in Ohio and now Florida. The difference is huge. Son plays on a very good team. (AAU State Champs and Ranked Nationally) we played a few LL teams in Qualifiers and they were typically over in 4 innnings. The LL kids didn't have the "baseball sense" that the Select kids did. Never took extra bases, didn't understand leading off, got caught stealing EVERY TIME, threw behind runners... Lots of differences.
This is not a putdown on the kids. Kids will learn what they are taught. Kids have more ability that some want to give them. Athletic ability is not the issue, knowing the game is.
I do agree that Select is the way to go in baseball.
However, make sure you have a good coach who understands the game and treats his players with respect. Hopefully, there's a meeting at the beginning of the year where the coach outlines which tournaments you'll be participating in, travel arrangements, etc. In other words, the better organized the coach and his organization, the better your experience will be.
Why cant you do both? I remember in 2003 seeing kids from Arizona at Cooprstown Dreams Park on a select Arizona team, Chandler Express they won the week by the way, and then later in the year seeing the same kids in Williamsport playing in the LL World Series for a team out of Chandler Arizona. Just wondering.
This happens all the time in Florida as well. We moved here in April and 11 year old son got down in June. His Ohio coach (Sluggers) found him a team in Florida before he got here and he played in the IBC States he week he got here. Ironically, the same week LL teams were almost through the season and we had calls asking for him to come and play in ONE game so he would be eligible for LL All Stars.
Not so sure LL is as pure everywhere as we would like to think....Sad.
I do agree that Select is the way to go in baseball.
However, make sure you have a good coach who understands the game and treats his players with respect. Hopefully, there's a meeting at the beginning of the year where the coach outlines which tournaments you'll be participating in, travel arrangements, etc. In other words, the better organized the coach and his organization, the better your experience will be.
Ironically, the same week LL teams were almost through the season and we had calls asking for him to come and play in ONE game so he would be eligible for LL All Stars.
Not so sure LL is as pure everywhere as we would like to think....Sad.
Then they were cheating. You have to play in 60% of regular season Little League games to be eligible with a minimum of 12 games.
I guess if Little League is so bad, why do so many communities that have Little Leagues in Ohio compete so well at the high school level?
And I can answer that question; it's the quantity of players. Select ball has it's place in baseball but if select was the only baseball available to our youth, the sport of baseball would be dead in a couple decades. The reason football, basketball, and soccer have surpassed baseball is because our youth just don't play the game as much. Everyone should be thankful that Little League (and other community leagues) still exists because the future of baseball is Dad's teaching their kids the love of the game that they developed when they were kids growing up playing baseball. If a kid has to be a solid player to make a select team, you would be leaving out a large percentage of players including many that are athletically gifted who have turned to other sports. Ask any high school coach in any sport in a single community whether he would want 10 "superstars" playing a sport or 100 kids playing that same sport in a rec league. Every coach I've ever posed this question too always prefer the rec league because they know that at 12 years old, there are alot of physical changes that will take place in the next 6 years.
I don't want to get into the purity of LL or Select and of course it is going to depend on coaching and the overall organization but I would like to comment on the original statement by Woody.
You are talking about 12 year old kids. Are select players ahead of LL players in areas that the LL rules do not allow that part of the game in their game yet like lead-offs, third strikes, pitchers holding runners on, pitchers being comfortable in a 3-step -vs- a 5 step wind up, etc. of course they are. Does it matter? No. They are 12 year olds. The next phase in their baseball lives is high school ball. That should be the goal of each player that plays baseball at that age. Continue developing their game so that they can make and contribute to their Varsity high school baseball team. For most that starts at the age of 14 so every player you are talking about has atleast 2 years to learn the things you are highlighting that they are behind on. Nothin you are highlighting takes that much time to teach and the higher quality baseball players take less time to learna nd perfect it. So it doesn'tmatter at that time of their baseball life that some of the things that you do in "real" baseball are not perfected by LL baseball yet.
Forcing parents to think they need to get their kid into select at an early age is one of the things I do not like about Select baseball. Parents start spending way too much money at an early age thinking they are falling way behind. If Select is what is right for a particular player and family then that is what should be done, if LL and /or Rec ball is what is right for that player/family then that is what should be done. If that kid has the talent it will all come out in the end. People bring up that every player on a Varsity team played "select" so that is evidence that you have to do it. What they fail to say is not every player on Varsity started select at an early age and the "studs" from those early age select teams are not always the same as the "studs" on the Varsity team.
Then they were cheating. You have to play in 60% of regular season Little League games to be eligible with a minimum of 12 games.
I guess if Little League is so bad, why do so many communities that have Little Leagues in Ohio compete so well at the high school level?
And I can answer that question; it's the quantity of players. Select ball has it's place in baseball but if select was the only baseball available to our youth, the sport of baseball would be dead in a couple decades. The reason football, basketball, and soccer have surpassed baseball is because our youth just don't play the game as much. Everyone should be thankful that Little League (and other community leagues) still exists because the future of baseball is Dad's teaching their kids the love of the game that they developed when they were kids growing up playing baseball. If a kid has to be a solid player to make a select team, you would be leaving out a large percentage of players including many that are athletically gifted who have turned to other sports. Ask any high school coach in any sport in a single community whether he would want 10 "superstars" playing a sport or 100 kids playing that same sport in a rec league. Every coach I've ever posed this question too always prefer the rec league because they know that at 12 years old, there are alot of physical changes that will take place in the next 6 years.
FYI: I didn't let him do that. Goes against all I think about in terms of Team Sports.
Agreed..If there is a place for a young person to play and continue to get the love of the game that is great. But, if you have a boy who is physically gifted, you should also take advantage of the options around you.
The question was LL vs Select.... IMHO: Two different options on one great game. My son has thrived in Select Ball. Would he have had as much fun in LL? Probably. Would he have as much baseball knowledge as he does now? Probably Not. But as Hometeam put is perfectly..."a good coach who understands the game and treats his players with respect", is good in any league or level....
Then they were cheating. You have to play in 60% of regular season Little League games to be eligible with a minimum of 12 games.
I guess if Little League is so bad, why do so many communities that have Little Leagues in Ohio compete so well at the high school level?
And I can answer that question; it's the quantity of players. Select ball has it's place in baseball but if select was the only baseball available to our youth, the sport of baseball would be dead in a couple decades. The reason football, basketball, and soccer have surpassed baseball is because our youth just don't play the game as much. Everyone should be thankful that Little League (and other community leagues) still exists because the future of baseball is Dad's teaching their kids the love of the game that they developed when they were kids growing up playing baseball. If a kid has to be a solid player to make a select team, you would be leaving out a large percentage of players including many that are athletically gifted who have turned to other sports. Ask any high school coach in any sport in a single community whether he would want 10 "superstars" playing a sport or 100 kids playing that same sport in a rec league. Every coach I've ever posed this question too always prefer the rec league because they know that at 12 years old, there are alot of physical changes that will take place in the next 6 years.
YAPPI - you are getting caught up in the "select" league being a true "select" league. What is happening now in "select" leagues is that divisions are created so that all kinds of teasm are in that league. Even the true "select" league you are thinking about is watered down as players that are not the top tier players play it as parents are giving in to the opinion that everyone needs to play select or they are behind the eight ball in skill development. As is happening now if select ball was the only ball around those 100 kids would be playing on select teams within the select league. Dad's will always be part of teaching their kids the love of the game, the fundamentals of the game and getting into the backyard and tossing with their kids. That is the best part of the great game of baseball. The rec league you are talking about becomes part of the select league. Select leagues are now all about making money and not providing a league for what was " select type teasm in the past. Thier have been exhausting commentaries on YAPPI from those that are involved in the monopolization of baseball into "select" baseball. One of the things you hear those jguys constantly say is that Dad's can not coach and you have to have a paid coach or coaches teach the kids to play. What they miss is that kids actually learn from playing and practicing with their Dad's in the backyard far more than they learn from those coaches who are in it to make a little money on the side. "Daddy Ball" as they critisize it has become "Money Ball".
Agreed..If there is a place for a young person to play and continue to get the love of the game that is great. But, if you have a boy who is physically gifted, you should also take advantage of the options around you.
Let me give you a different perspective, my son plays basketball, football, bowling, and even soccer at times in addition to baseball. I'm always trying to convince the kids on his various teams in other sports to play the other sports with him, especially baseball. Just a couple weeks ago, I talked to a couple kids about playing baseball. They were very good football players but haven't played baseball yet. Is there a place for them in select? I really can't see where these kids would get a chance to play other than your local rec league.
With all that said, I can't tell you right now whether my kid will make the high school team let alone all the other kids on his team. But I am confident that these other first year players have just as much a chance to play on the high school team as any of the others that have played since they were 5 years old. We have people in my community that are pushing for more successful LL all-star teams. I've argued that we just need more numbers and the all-star thing will take care of itself. Same thing with high school in a few years. The more kids in his age group I can get to play baseball, the better the team will be.
Research has shown that what a kid does before the age of 12 in most sports has little affect on what he will be athletically at age 18. It's what happens between 13-18 that is the most important. Studies show kids with equal talent will be at the same level at age 18 (all things being equal, coaching, opportunity, etc.) even if one has been playing since age 5 and the other doesn't start till age 13. The misconception is that you have to pay big bucks to get private lessons, when you can bond with your son and he will develop just as quickly by playing catch with you in the back yard. That is the simple truth. So enjoy your summers, let the boys be boys, take a family vacation. If you want to get serious, there is plenty of time for that.
Do we have to make it 12 or 13? Some boys are physically mature at 11 while others don't seem to get there until they're 20. I don't think that there is that exact time in a boys life when the need arises to make the switch.
Some boys can't get enough of baseball in spring summer and fall while others can't wait for the season to be over after 10 games... What works for one may not for another, we've had some of the best times playing many games in travel and some not so good times in other sports. If the kid prefers baseball and can't get enough of it, baseball might be the way to go. If he likes playing multiple sports, that should be up to him and his parents.
Do we have to make it 12 or 13? Some boys are physically mature at 11 while others don't seem to get there until they're 20. I don't think that there is that exact time in a boys life when the need arises to make the switch.
Some boys can't get enough of baseball in spring summer and fall while others can't wait for the season to be over after 10 games... What works for one may not for another, we've had some of the best times playing many games in travel and some not so good times in other sports. If the kid prefers baseball and can't get enough of it, baseball might be the way to go. If he likes playing multiple sports, that should be up to him and his parents.
Caju - I agree with you. The problem with these threads is that they are always taking shots at Little League. Little League has it's place in youth baseball and the kids that play it should not be looked down upon. I think select teams have their place in baseball too. I just don't understand the animosity towards Little League...
Little League has it's place in youth baseball and the kids that play it should not be looked down upon. I think select teams have their place in baseball too. I just don't understand the animosity towards Little League...
Ok, I am going to put my .02 in here but we have had this discussion for years. First, I have played and coached and ran both types of baseball. Here in my area there is absolutely no comparison between travel and LL. NONE. We do not have the wsll up here. The rec league is horrible.The best players at any level up here are the travel players, legion, high school, whatever. I am a travel advocate so I am biased but here are some points. We have baseball and modified baseball. The modified baseball community produces great players. But there is always an EXCUSE. IF travel had to play by LL rules, yada yada yada. Travel baseball IS baseball. Normal rules. The track meet issues is an old horse. Travel players quickly learn countermeasures to the running game. At most levels of 11u last year track meets didnt exist if the teams are close to equal in ability. In LL if the teams have a great gap in ability then it is also a track meet. Moot point. I have a solution to the debate. It is simple and would help all of baseball in America. LL should adopt the field dimensions and align their rules with all the other sanctioning bodies. It would then be the largest most powerful baseball entity that all the other sanctioning bodies would compare against, such as Triple Crown, CABA, USSSA, Super Series, Nations, AAU, Dixie, Fletcher, etc. They survive because LL does not offer what those parents and players want. Many of those would fail if LL fell into the mix. The organization and support of LL is second to none. The quality of baseball is behind though. Maybe not in Cinci, or Hamilton, or midland, but in all the little podunk towns it is behind and not teaching the kids the game like travel does. I am sitting behind a tree now waiting for the burrage of critisism but that is what I think.
I have a solution to the debate. It is simple and would help all of baseball in America. LL should adopt the field dimensions and align their rules with all the other sanctioning bodies.
Mansfield Buckeye - the part that you are missing and it's the BIGGEST part of Little League is that it's a rec league. It's the single biggest youth organization to help grow the sport of baseball. I recognize all the other organizations that you mentioned but none of them are household names. The reason is that they do not reach out to the community. They simply help assemble talent.
I feel that most people don't understand that select baseball is being a big fish in a small pond. Little League IS the proverbial big pond and helps grow the sport. Unfortunately, baseball is a dying sport and the solution to this slow painful death is community rec leagues. So let me ask all those that favor select baseball, how many kids have you brought into the sport?
There is a reason that World Series baseball ratings continue to plummet and that's simply because kids that don't play the sport grow up and don't care about the sport. Every fan of baseball right now should be doing all they can to introduce more kids to the sport. Through Little League, that is what I am trying to do.
Mansfield Buckeye - the part that you are missing and it's the BIGGEST part of Little League is that it's a rec league. It's the single biggest youth organization to help grow the sport of baseball. I recognize all the other organizations that you mentioned but none of them are household names. The reason is that they do not reach out to the community. They simply help assemble talent.
I feel that most people don't understand that select baseball is being a big fish in a small pond. Little League IS the proverbial big pond and helps grow the sport. Unfortunately, baseball is a dying sport and the solution to this slow painful death is community rec leagues. So let me ask all those that favor select baseball, how many kids have you brought into the sport?
There is a reason that World Series baseball ratings continue to plummet and that's simply because kids that don't play the sport grow up and don't care about the sport. Every fan of baseball right now should be doing all they can to introduce more kids to the sport. Through Little League, that is what I am trying to do.
YAPPI - I thought this was a thread of select -vs- LL baseball.
Nobody that loves baseball would disagree with your assessment of the need to keep kids interested and introduce them to baseball.
By the way I think I just read that the ratings for this WS are up but that may just be a case of NY and Philly being involved who knows?
I agree in part. There are 2,000,000 LLgr's in the world. There are millions more in all other sanctioning bodies. There are 8000 teams alone in Texas that play travel baseball. The reason LL struggles is because of the appathy of the parents out there. It is horrendous to see some of these dads coach and they dont know anything. Add the fact that LL baseball is boring to watch and play at the grass roots level and it explains why so many of the dedicated parents and players left looking for something better. If LL would align with the modern style of travel baseball we might see a jump in participation. I am saying that LL is a sleaping dragon, when it comes around and leads the way instead of fighting travel baseball, ALL kids will benefit, rec and elite player alike. The original post pointed out that the LL teams could not compete. In general that is true. Travel teams have more good players, not necessarily better players just more of them. Combine the sanctioning bodies and lets see if baseball improves. I bet it will. And as far as reasearch on developing children and sports at young ages and old, there is research that supports all viewpoints. Not much of a shocker there.
Last edited by Mansfield Buckeye : 11-03-09 at 02:04 PM.
YAPPI - I thought this was a thread of select -vs- LL baseball.
My arguments are what favors Little League. The other sanctioning bodies are struggling because there's just not many kids/parents interested in playing travel ball. Little League is also struggling but moving it towards travel ball is a huge mistake. I just don't understand the animosity towards Little League.
First, for the kids playing in Little League, it's not boring.
Second, travel ball relies on Little League and other rec leagues to develop their talent whether they leave to join them at 8 years old or up to 12 years old. Travel ball just isn't a very good entry point for baseball.
Third, travel baseball should be Little League's biggest fan. It's not in direct competition and can use Little League as a feeder system.
Mansfield Buckeye - the problem I have with your post is this quote: "I am saying that LL is a sleaping dragon, when it comes around and leads the way instead of fighting travel baseball."
I just don't see Little League fighting with anyone. They do their job and create a quality product. Others don't particularly like what they do and try to tear them down. I know that you think Little League is boring but I've been to a number of Akron Aeros baseball games (AA affiliate of the Indians) and can say that those games can be very boring. It's real baseball, much more so than any travel ball team. But the game is long and tedious, especially without knowing any of the players and the slowness of the game. The point is that baseball itself is a boring game. Your criticism of Little League is more of an indictment of baseball and an argument frequently heard by soccer parents. That's why I wish this animosity towards the most successful youth baseball program didn't exist.
My arguments are what favors Little League. The other sanctioning bodies are struggling because there's just not many kids/parents interested in playing travel ball. Little League is also struggling but moving it towards travel ball is a huge mistake. I just don't understand the animosity towards Little League.
First, for the kids playing in Little League, it's not boring.
Second, travel ball relies on Little League and other rec leagues to develop their talent whether they leave to join them at 8 years old or up to 12 years old. Travel ball just isn't a very good entry point for baseball.
Third, travel baseball should be Little League's biggest fan. It's not in direct competition and can use Little League as a feeder system.
Mansfield Buckeye - the problem I have with your post is this quote: "I am saying that LL is a sleaping dragon, when it comes around and leads the way instead of fighting travel baseball."
I just don't see Little League fighting with anyone. They do their job and create a quality product. Others don't particularly like what they do and try to tear them down. I know that you think Little League is boring but I've been to a number of Akron Aeros baseball games (AA affiliate of the Indians) and can say that those games can be very boring. It's real baseball, much more so than any travel ball team. But the game is long and tedious, especially without knowing any of the players and the slowness of the game. The point is that baseball itself is a boring game. Your criticism of Little League is more of an indictment of baseball and an argument frequently heard by soccer parents. That's why I wish this animosity towards the most successful youth baseball program didn't exist.
Wow a general statement that there are not many parents/players interested in playing travel ball is just a rediculous statement. ---- down here in the southwest corner of Ohio you have one of if not the largest travel ball league in the country in the SWOL. I would say I don't agree with your statement.
Secondly - to say baseball is boring as an argument for LL? All I can say is WTF????? I watch baseball all the time I enjoy it all the time - and I watch all different levels. It isn't boring to a baseball fan.
I started out on this thread pretty much arguing aginst Woody but the more I read your posts I start questioning whether I should change that stance.
Wow a general statement that there are not many parents/players interested in playing travel ball is just a rediculous statement. ---- down here in the southwest corner of Ohio you have one of if not the largest travel ball league in the country in the SWOL. I would say I don't agree with your statement.
So let me get this straight, you are saying that most kids play travel baseball first, then which sport is the second most popular? Football? Basketball? Soccer?
I find that VERY difficult to believe with the passion the Cincinnati fans have towards football. My experience is that baseball is struggling to keep up with other sports and travel baseball is just one branch of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMHO
Secondly - to say baseball is boring as an argument for LL? All I can say is WTF????? I watch baseball all the time I enjoy it all the time - and I watch all different levels. It isn't boring to a baseball fan.
I wonder how old your kids are? My son is 10 and I take him and his friends to various sports events. Without question, baseball is the sport they struggle watching the most. Baseball is a great sport, especially knowing the history of it. Football and basketball are sports where history matters very little but the action is significant. I liken baseball to golf, the fans of the sport are huge fans but to the casual observer, other sports are far more exciting. Thus, the reason that we need more kids to play the sport and start that lifelong enjoyment of the game. Sorry if this offends you.
So let me get this straight, you are saying that most kids play travel baseball first, then which sport is the second most popular? Football? Basketball? Soccer?
I find that VERY difficult to believe with the passion the Cincinnati fans have towards football.
I wonder how old your kids are? My son is 10 and I take him and his friends to various sports events. Without question, baseball is the sport they struggle watching the most. Baseball is a great sport, especially knowing the history of it. Football and basketball are sports where history matters very little but the action is significant. I liken baseball to golf, the fans of the sport are huge fans but to the casual observer, other sports are far more exciting. Thus, the reason that we need more kids to play the sport and start that lifelong enjoyment of the game. Sorry if this offends you.
You don't offend me at all but I really don't follow your arguments at this point. You are coming off like a LL guy who will stop at nothing to put down those that say anything else.
You posted that parents/players are not interested in travel ball as a reason that the santioning bodies that were listed are struggling. First I don't know how you or anyone else knows they are struggling but more importantly to say they are struggling becasue parents and players are not interested in travel ball is just plain wrong. As I said down here in the Southwest corner of Ohio we have the one of the largest if not largest travel ball leagues in the country in the SWOL and that is even with the Hamilton LL program and a couple other LL programs within its reach and a number of rec leagues and school leagues. That is a fact and bringing up other sports will not change that. It has nothig to do with other sports YAPPI - it has to do with what those that chose to play baseball do. Why do you bring up the other sports?
Now you are arguing the merits of baseball -vs- other sports. This is about LL vs travel ball nothing else. It has nothing to do with WATCHING sports it has everything to do with which is the better to PLAY. I know a kid who plays baseball at the collegiate level but doesn't enjoy going to games to watch. So what - he has played the game for 14 years.
You posted that parents/players are not interested in travel ball as a reason that the santioning bodies that were listed are struggling. First I don't know how you or anyone else knows they are struggling but more importantly to say they are struggling becasue parents and players are not interested in travel ball is just plain wrong. As I said down here in the Southwest corner of Ohio we have the one of the largest if not largest travel ball leagues in the country in the SWOL and that is even with the Hamilton LL program and a couple other LL programs within its reach and a number of rec leagues and school leagues. That is a fact and bringing up other sports will not change that. It has nothig to do with other sports YAPPI - it has to do with what those that chose to play baseball do. Why do you bring up the other sports?
It was a simple point and you made it confusing. A large majority of parents have no interest in their kids playing travel baseball. Simple as that. Nothing else. They prefer their kids play rec league baseball or no baseball at all. Travel baseball is not an option. Simple. Nothing else to it.
Now the reason why I said that, the goal should be to increase participation and that is what Little League attempts to do as well as other rec leagues. Select baseball will not bring in new people. Very simple point and I find it very difficult to believe that you are going to argue otherwise.
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Originally Posted by IMHO
Now you are arguing the merits of baseball -vs- other sports. This is about LL vs travel ball nothing else. It has nothing to do with WATCHING sports it has everything to do with which is the better to PLAY. I know a kid who plays baseball at the collegiate level but doesn't enjoy going to games to watch. So what - he has played the game for 14 years.
Absolutely not. When someone claims that Little League is boring, the reality is that most people feel baseball itself is boring. I've played, coached, and watched both travel and Little League. The differences are minor and I feel both are exciting when you are involved. The beauty of baseball is it's tradition and that gets lost on people new to the game.
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