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-   -   7 Divisions really ? (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308439)

Stirred not Shaken 11-26-17 02:06 PM

7 Divisions really ?
 
Once again it is State Championship week. Marion Local in D-6 has not been seriously challenged yet in the play-offs ( that will change this week). Minster a team with 4 losses had one close game with Crestview otherwise next closet game was 20-0. Shouldn't it be very difficult to make it to a State title game unless you have a powerhouse football team. Believe 5 divisions are more than enough for football. I know that would make it tough on small schools but play-offs should be more challenging like it is in basketball.

Msfootball 11-26-17 02:21 PM

I agree that 7 divisions is watered down. Take Marion Local in 2014 for example. The D7 playoffs were a forgone conclusion. Marion Local had crushed D5 Coldwater who crushed Canton Central in the Finals. It almost felt like Marion Local got cheated out of a real chance to test how good they could be. Would be nice to see 5 divisions again. Six maximum

Stirred not Shaken 11-26-17 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msfootball (Post 6925548)
I agree that 7 divisions is watered down. Take Marion Local in 2014 for example. The D7 playoffs were a forgone conclusion. Marion Local had crushed D5 Coldwater who crushed Canton Central in the Finals. It almost felt like Marion Local got cheated out of a real chance to test how good they could be. Would be nice to see 5 divisions again. Six maximum

Trust me I am very appreciative of what ML and other small schools have accomplished with 6 and 7 divisions. However I definitely believe if their were 5 divisions this season ML and Kirtland would be playing for the D-5 title this week.

tcgobucks 11-26-17 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msfootball (Post 6925548)
I agree that 7 divisions is watered down. Take Marion Local in 2014 for example. The D7 playoffs were a forgone conclusion. Marion Local had crushed D5 Coldwater who crushed Canton Central in the Finals. It almost felt like Marion Local got cheated out of a real chance to test how good they could be. Would be nice to see 5 divisions again. Six maximum

You can't base a need for changes on Marion Local. They beat Chaminade Julienne by 28 in week 1....CJ is D3 and made it to week 13 before losing to Trotwood by 30. Marion Local & Kirtland aren't typical D6 teams. Heck, I read somewhere that Marion Local dresses 85 guys. You can't punish all of D6 because of a couple powerhouses

ctowner 11-26-17 02:31 PM

Agree that 7 divisions is too many. Like six. Five? Think about how many fewer titles MAC would have if only five divisions. IMO.

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Vinegar 11-26-17 02:34 PM

You can say watered down....or, you can say "same number of teams" in each Division. (Except DI)

Take your 1 team out of D6 or D7 and do you feel the same way?

Stirred not Shaken 11-26-17 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctowner (Post 6925559)
Agree that 7 divisions is too many. Like six. Five? Think about how many fewer titles MAC would have if only five divisions. IMO.

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True MAC would have fewer Championships but play-offs games would be much more competitive.

Lambeau Fields 11-26-17 02:48 PM

Tough to argue that the football playoffs in Ohio are "watered down" when football is the only sport in Ohio high school sports in which all team DON'T make the playoffs....

Raider6309 11-26-17 02:52 PM

Should be two three divisions
AAA Mentor vs PC
AA Trotwood vs Steubenville
A Marion Local vs Kirtland

Stirred not Shaken 11-26-17 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcgobucks (Post 6925558)
You can't base a need for changes on Marion Local. They beat Chaminade Julienne by 28 in week 1....CJ is D3 and made it to week 13 before losing to Trotwood by 30. Marion Local & Kirtland aren't typical D6 teams. Heck, I read somewhere that Marion Local dresses 85 guys. You can't punish all of D6 because of a couple powerhouses

It is not just ML, Coldwater has also steamrolled in the play-offs and the MAC has dominated NW Ohio, it should be more competitive IMO.

Stirred not Shaken 11-26-17 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider6309 (Post 6925575)
Should be two three divisions
AAA Mentor vs PC
AA Trotwood vs Steubenville
A Marion Local vs Kirtland

I think 4 like basketball. Make that 5.

big medicine 11-26-17 02:58 PM

One thing to remember about too many watered down divisions, it was not the small schools calling for increasing divisions. It was the " small " DI schools saying they could not compete with the big boys.

Lambeau Fields 11-26-17 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big medicine (Post 6925583)
One thing to remember about too many watered down divisions, it was not the small schools calling for increasing divisions. It was the " small " DI schools saying they could not compete with the big boys.

Because the difference between the biggest D1 and smallest Di was 3x the enrollment. 3x. How many other divisions can say the same?

tcgobucks 11-26-17 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken (Post 6925579)
It is not just ML, Coldwater has also steamrolled in the play-offs and the MAC has dominated NW Ohio, it should be more competitive IMO.

It's not like they are dominating because the rest of NW Ohio is bad...it's because the MAC are just that good. They would dominate no matter what region they are in, just like it happens once the playoffs get started. How about taking the MAC schools and moving them around the state. Let's put Coldwater in the far NW corner, we'll leave Marion Local in the Southwest, put Minster in the Southeast....and put them in the same division with Kirtland. Those 4 would make it to the Final 4 every year and nobody else would get to play. the MAC had 5 teams in the playoffs in 3 divisions. Heck, if the MAC teams were spread apart, they might get the entire league into the postseason

Rangerfan 11-26-17 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambeau fields (Post 6925635)
because the difference between the biggest d1 and smallest di was 3x the enrollment. 3x. How many other divisions can say the same?

d7

Jaws31 11-26-17 04:09 PM

It's really easy for those who have nothing to do with the game to say that there are too many divisions. 7 divisions hurts noone and quite frankly doesn't water down anything. As populations in certain areas of tge state decline you need the 2 smaller divisions in order for those communities to have something to play for. And before everyone starts with the "D7 doesn't mean anything", stop. Go tell the players, coaches, families and communities of Minster and Cuyahoga Heights that their game is meaningless. Even D6 for that matter.

USA70PP 11-26-17 04:29 PM

I live in a mostly rural area. Over the last 20+ years area schools have fluctuated between D4, 5, 6 and 7, with one school closing and another being reduced to 8-man this year. Quite frankly, D1, 2 and for the most part D3 are just other divisions in the state. Couldn't care less about them for the most part.

Flood 11-26-17 04:49 PM

7 Divisions is a complete joke. Let's just make it 21 divisions. What's the difference?
Division 7 champ...right...

USA70PP 11-26-17 05:15 PM

21 divisions wouldn't work, however 10 would. That way each division could have as many teams in their division as D1.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

dograt 11-26-17 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flood (Post 6925719)
7 Divisions is a complete joke. Let's just make it 21 divisions. What's the difference?
Division 7 champ...right...

I agree! and 14 weightclasses in wrestling is way too many. Let's just have 3 wrestling champions! And why do track runners have all those damn distances anyway...100,200,400,800,mile,2mile...blah, blah, blah. You're either fast or slow. Just a 100 and a mile should do it. Don't even get me started on swimming different distances AND strokes!
Bah humbug! I'm against anything that gives more kids success!

cabezadecaballo 11-26-17 05:22 PM

Separate Tournaments!!! 1 Open, 4 public, and 2 private

bigkat 11-26-17 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dograt (Post 6925757)
I agree! and 14 weightclasses in wrestling is way too many. Let's just have 3 wrestling champions! And why do track runners have all those damn distances anyway...100,200,400,800,mile,2mile...blah, blah, blah. You're either fast or slow. Just a 100 and a mile should do it. Don't even get me started on swimming different distances AND strokes!
Bah humbug! I'm against anything that gives more kids success!

:clap:

bsee54321 11-26-17 06:14 PM

Do not want to bring it up but Football is the OHSAA cash cow so I doubt we will ever see less than 7 divisions. That's 14 schools playing for state Championships and 28 schools in the State Semi-Finals and so on to 224 in the playoffs. And the price will never go below $9 unless you buy presale. OHSAA has to make their money.

What I hear will be next is every school makes the playoffs with week 10 being the 1st week of high school playoffs. The regions will be broken down to 4 or 8 districts in each Region.

Jaws31 11-26-17 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flood (Post 6925719)
7 Divisions is a complete joke. Let's just make it 21 divisions. What's the difference?
Division 7 champ...right...

Its usually people like this who have never actually won anything in their lifetime. Never understood what it means to work towards a goal and be able to achieve it. Its a lot easier to sit in the stands and behind a keyboard and b*itch about how 7 divisions offends them.

Jaws31 11-26-17 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dograt (Post 6925757)
I agree! and 14 weightclasses in wrestling is way too many. Let's just have 3 wrestling champions! And why do track runners have all those damn distances anyway...100,200,400,800,mile,2mile...blah, blah, blah. You're either fast or slow. Just a 100 and a mile should do it. Don't even get me started on swimming different distances AND strokes!
Bah humbug! I'm against anything that gives more kids success!

Amen

eastisbest 11-26-17 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dograt (Post 6925757)
I agree! and 14 weightclasses in wrestling is way too many. Let's just have 3 wrestling champions! And why do track runners have all those damn distances anyway...100,200,400,800,mile,2mile...blah, blah, blah. You're either fast or slow. Just a 100 and a mile should do it. Don't even get me started on swimming different distances AND strokes!
Bah humbug! I'm against anything that gives more kids success!

Sounds like someone who never had to make a decision. Your retort probably better hashed out on the wrestling and track forums, this one is discussion of where to set the line in football.

It seems arbitrary to a certain degree and logistics to another. No one (yet) claimed there was a definitive science and besides yourself, I don't think anyone is seeing division alignments equitable to "success." If it is, as someone has already snarked lets make it 21 divisions or whatever it would take so everyone could be in an eight team play-off for a "state championship."

It's a legit discusion. I think I'd be more interested in which alignment reduces travels times and costs than basing it on some "optimal" number of champions. There are costs to more divisions I would have to imagine and with smaller and smaller crowds, it could become a cost issue. Isn't the bigger issue how the championships are run than the number of divisions? Michigan runs 8 games, one venue, one Saturday or something like that, don't they? They don't have much reason to complain about number of divisions it seems.

StateChampion2012 11-27-17 12:14 AM

I don't mind 7 divisions. If we dial it back to 6 divisions, it'll be because rounds of school consolidations have happened.

Down The Road 11-27-17 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msfootball (Post 6925548)
I agree that 7 divisions is watered down. Take Marion Local in 2014 for example. The D7 playoffs were a forgone conclusion. Marion Local had crushed D5 Coldwater who crushed Canton Central in the Finals. It almost felt like Marion Local got cheated out of a real chance to test how good they could be. Would be nice to see 5 divisions again. Six maximum

It's too bad those teams that feel like they are not getting challenged could not have the opportunity to play up a division or 2 if they chose to. That would also let teams and programs in their region that are left every year to wonder what it would be like with out at MAC or perennial powerhouse in the region get a feel for the next level and some new blood in the state semi's. If there was a way to do it that would not get manipulated I think sorting teams by roster size in the 3 smallest divisions would create a truly competitive playing field. I do realize the pitfalls of that, but in a perfect world......

EagleFan 11-27-17 06:52 AM

Going to 8 when they add 8-Man


I have no problem with the divisions

Rangerfan 11-27-17 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down The Road (Post 6926193)
It's too bad those teams that feel like they are not getting challenged could not have the opportunity to play up a division or 2 if they chose to. That would also let teams and programs in their region that are left every year to wonder what it would be like with out at MAC or perennial powerhouse in the region get a feel for the next level and some new blood in the state semi's. If there was a way to do it that would not get manipulated I think sorting teams by roster size in the 3 smallest divisions would create a truly competitive playing field. I do realize the pitfalls of that, but in a perfect world......

Thinking that schools would choose to play up a division to challenge themselves is a fantasy. That would be like Amazon saying, "This business is getting too easy. I think we'll raise what we pay to our suppliers to make it more challenging."

What you might see is schools moving up if they felt the higher division is easier (such as schools fleeing division six to avoid Marion Local).


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