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-   -   Does your school have a freshmen team? (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298024)

Yappi 12-15-16 04:21 PM

Does your school have a freshmen team?
 
Does your school have a freshmen team?

Please post your school (and other schools that you know of) whether they have a freshmen team. Also include their division. Just wondering what percentage of schools are able to field a freshmen team...

MCGal 12-15-16 07:03 PM

McKinley has a freshman team but is only one of three teams in the Federal League that do. They had to really work to put together a 10 game schedule.

MCGal 12-15-16 07:03 PM

I know St Vincent St Mary has a freshman team also.

Yappi 12-15-16 07:10 PM

Wow, I can't believe the Federal League only has 3.

Andy27 12-15-16 10:41 PM

Hoban
St V
Wadsworth
Beaumont
^all have one

Walsh Jesuit does not.

Mr. Slippery 12-16-16 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yappi (Post 6655710)
Wow, I can't believe the Federal League only has 3.

I'm told that those 3 Federal League schools (McKinley, Hoover, and Jackson, if I heard correctly) are the only ones in all of Stark County that have girls freshman teams. It's been about 8 years since my school last fielded a girls freshman team. They currently have only 15 girls in the entire program, so it's a tight squeeze to even field a JV team; especially if they encounter any injuries. At least 2 teams on the schedule aren't fielding JV teams, and there could be more.

I've seen a few schools that look like they have enough players for a freshman team, but the issue might be that not enough nearby schools have frosh teams, so it's not worth fielding a team and incurring the associated expenses (coaching stipend, transportation, and game workers) if they can't get games.

I'm sure the issue of dwindling of participation in girls hoops has been discussed here before, but I rarely view this forum. What are the most common reasons cited for the decreased participation? Two that jump into my mind are the increasing participation in all things volleyball, and a misguided thought by some kids that they shouldn't go out for the school team if they don't play AAU. Anything else?

Yappi 12-16-16 12:45 AM

I asked it in the Texas blowout thread too:

What needs to be done to change this?

I see volleyball as a frequent reason but I know that freshmen teams in volleyball are not universal either.

Is it just lack of participation across the board? I know the D2 school that I follow has only two freshmen teams; football and boys basketball.

Sometimes I wonder if it is simply starting kids way too young. I know that in baseball and softball, kids as young as 3-4 years old are playing organized sports.

hoban2020 12-16-16 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy27 (Post 6655858)
Hoban

St V

Wadsworth

Beaumont

^all have one



Walsh Jesuit does not.


How sad is it that Walsh Jesuit, a school with probably 140-150 freshman girls, can't find 12-15 of those girls to play basketball ... while there's a line around the building wanting to play other sports?

I believe that as recently as 2 years ago Walsh had a top 5 team (Piper/Hall) in northeast Ohio.


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hoban2020 12-16-16 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery (Post 6655874)
I'm told that those 3 Federal League schools (McKinley, Hoover, and Jackson, if I heard correctly) are the only ones in all of Stark County that have girls freshman teams. It's been about 8 years since my school last fielded a girls freshman team. They currently have only 15 girls in the entire program, so it's a tight squeeze to even field a JV team; especially if they encounter any injuries. At least 2 teams on the schedule aren't fielding JV teams, and there could be more.

I've seen a few schools that look like they have enough players for a freshman team, but the issue might be that not enough nearby schools have frosh teams, so it's not worth fielding a team and incurring the associated expenses (coaching stipend, transportation, and game workers) if they can't get games.

I'm sure the issue of dwindling of participation in girls hoops has been discussed here before, but I rarely view this forum. What are the most common reasons cited for the decreased participation? Two that jump into my mind are the increasing participation in all things volleyball, and a misguided thought by some kids that they shouldn't go out for the school team if they don't play AAU. Anything else?


Both of the reasons you cite are valid in my mind - more the Volleyball than the AAU. JO tryouts for high school girls are the Sunday after the state championship, so for those few playing in the finals they get literally zero off days between school and JO. For girls whose teams lose in early playoff rounds, they go to open gyms for JO tryouts as soon as their HS team loses.

Also, I believe that the year-round stress put on kids by high school and club coaches - practice, open gyms, lifting, summer league etc - along with the expansion of lacrosse in many places either puts time restrictions or burns out the players who need some sort of down time throughout the year. 95%+ of kids don't play an organized sport after their senior year of high school.

And basketball is simply a rougher, more full-contact sport than volleyball. Those who don't like the contact opt for volleyball over basketball.


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HeartoftheMatter 12-16-16 08:38 AM

I think it's a variety of things. Obviously, the growing popularity of JO volleyball and year round soccer is definitely an issue, but I think its more than that.

We hear all this talk about the change in society and how we have become soft. I feel like that sums up some of the problem as well. Not to take anything away from JO volleyball or club soccer or even travel softball, but the reality is, those things are more fun than work. Don't get me wrong, I understand what JO means for scholarships and national exposure, and I understand they work for what they get. However, they still only practice 2 or 3 times a week and when they play on the weekend they get to travel all over and play 5, 6 or even 7 games in the weekend. Same for travel softball. You get to practice a couple times a week and play 60-70 games over the summer while traveling all over the state or country. That's fun for high school kids. I don't blame them for wanting to have fun.

So how does it all come back to high school participation. It's simple. High School sports is hard work. It takes time, effort and a determination to excel at the high school level. Let's take basketball for example, some kids simply decide, why would I spend my entire winter not seeing the light of day, having to practice for 2 hours a night, 60-75 practices a year to play 22 games in 5 months? They say if I really just love playing, I'll just have my parents pay $500 for "AAU" and I can go play for a team I know I get minutes on the floor and only have to practice once or twice a week (not even really go hard) and get to play 25-30 games in 2 months.

I am not saying this is ok, actually, it kills me that this is what it comes to. My greatest memories in high school were playing on my high school basketball team. And truly, I wasn't even that good of a player and my minutes were very limited, but I wouldn't trade that experience for the world.

The bottom line is playing a high school sport is hard. You have to want it, and we live in a world now where the kids that do are in the minority.

Purple66 12-16-16 11:34 PM

Logan from the SEOAL D1

DVK 12-17-16 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yappi (Post 6655612)
Does your school have a freshmen team?

Please post your school (and other schools that you know of) whether they have a freshmen team. Also include their division. Just wondering what percentage of schools are able to field a freshmen team...

No schools in Putnam County League have freshman, mostly D-4, not enough kids, most schools only have 100-200 kids in whole HS, great question...

hoban2020 12-17-16 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartoftheMatter (Post 6655954)
I think it's a variety of things. Obviously, the growing popularity of JO volleyball and year round soccer is definitely an issue, but I think its more than that.

We hear all this talk about the change in society and how we have become soft. I feel like that sums up some of the problem as well. Not to take anything away from JO volleyball or club soccer or even travel softball, but the reality is, those things are more fun than work. Don't get me wrong, I understand what JO means for scholarships and national exposure, and I understand they work for what they get. However, they still only practice 2 or 3 times a week and when they play on the weekend they get to travel all over and play 5, 6 or even 7 games in the weekend. Same for travel softball. You get to practice a couple times a week and play 60-70 games over the summer while traveling all over the state or country. That's fun for high school kids. I don't blame them for wanting to have fun.

So how does it all come back to high school participation. It's simple. High School sports is hard work. It takes time, effort and a determination to excel at the high school level. Let's take basketball for example, some kids simply decide, why would I spend my entire winter not seeing the light of day, having to practice for 2 hours a night, 60-75 practices a year to play 22 games in 5 months? They say if I really just love playing, I'll just have my parents pay $500 for "AAU" and I can go play for a team I know I get minutes on the floor and only have to practice once or twice a week (not even really go hard) and get to play 25-30 games in 2 months.

I am not saying this is ok, actually, it kills me that this is what it comes to. My greatest memories in high school were playing on my high school basketball team. And truly, I wasn't even that good of a player and my minutes were very limited, but I wouldn't trade that experience for the world.

The bottom line is playing a high school sport is hard. You have to want it, and we live in a world now where the kids that do are in the minority.


Great post, with a theory I hadn't even considered ... the 5 practices/2 games (high school) vs 2 practices/5 games (club).

My kids also enjoyed anything where they could stay in a hotel room and go to a restaurant for a meal out vs at home. The club/travel team experience definitely provides both - or as a physician co-worker of mine so accurately phrased it yesterday, a 'wallet biopsy'.


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Andy27 12-17-16 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoban2020 (Post 6655881)
How sad is it that Walsh Jesuit, a school with probably 140-150 freshman girls, can't find 12-15 of those girls to play basketball ... while there's a line around the building wanting to play other sports?

I believe that as recently as 2 years ago Walsh had a top 5 team (Piper/Hall) in northeast Ohio.


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They only have 16 girls for their entire program.

MCGal 12-18-16 12:42 AM

It's sport specialization and the coaches pushing it are killing hs sports. The lure of 'promised' college scholarship money doesn't help and unfortunately many parents/players are under-informed. College coaches love multi-sport athletes.

hoban2020 12-18-16 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy27 (Post 6656926)
They only have 16 girls for their entire program.


And they beat Hoban varsity last night. Ouch.


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Andy27 12-18-16 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoban2020 (Post 6657534)
And they beat Hoban varsity last night. Ouch.


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Yep, 3 at the buzzer to win. Heck of a game.

Kballer 12-19-16 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCGal (Post 6657132)
It's sport specialization and the coaches pushing it are killing hs sports. The lure of 'promised' college scholarship money doesn't help and unfortunately many parents/players are under-informed. College coaches love multi-sport athletes.

Have 2 kids playing sports in college- I totally agree with the first part, but the mutisport part is tricky from out experience. College coaches say they want kids who play more than one sport, but the reality is if a kid is playing at a high level at more than one sport they aren't going to as many recruiting events.. Have a son who played 2 sports in high school and the summer basketball schedule for his high school team almost kept him from getting to the next level with his other sport. It wasn't until he dropped basketball (his passion since he was 5!) after his Junior year that he started being able to compete in events for his other sport that put him on the coaches radars. Luckily, he shined that last summer and is playing D1 at a great school that was a top choice of his, but he missed out on a lot of opportunities during the early recruiting his freshman, sophomore and into his junior year because of playing more than one sport. He watched kids that he routinely beat in high school get offers because they were able to devote themselves to the one sport and get coaches attention more easily by building a resume year round in the one sport.

BobRoss 12-19-16 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoban2020 (Post 6657534)
And they beat Hoban varsity last night. Ouch.


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Hoban was up 7 with 2 minutes to play.
Walsh still won with a very inexperienced team.

I think this puts Pete's record against Hoban's coach at 8-3.
He owns his biggest league rival.

Bob Ashby 12-19-16 01:49 PM

I think there are several reasons contributing to the lack of freshman teams.

1. Demographics-- Although I haven't been able to confirm it I think the number of high school age children is dropping in Ohio, hence the numbers of freshman.
My school, Lakota West has declined about 8% in the last six years. Other schools in the SW Ohio area both public and private are also declining in enrollment.

2. Economics-- A few years back our school like many others instituted pay to play rules. My daughter who played three sports at old Lakota at no extra charge would have been charged for all three today. This year the fee's were lowered and family cap limits were put in place a year or two ago so that should help.

3. Coaches Philosophy and AAU development-- When my daughter played our head coach, like many other head coaches, had a rule that all freshman would play on the freshman team. She was one of the best five players in the school but stayed on the freshman team. The next year she was a varsity starter. Most coaches now let players seek their own level in year one. Better middle school programs and years of AAU competition have resulted in more girls jumping over the freshman teams. At Lakota West from 1-3 freshman girls a year are completely bypassing both the freshman and JV teams and starting or playing significant minutes for the varsity. Lakota West had D-1 Ohio Players of the Year in both 2015 and 2016 and neither one ever played a game below the varsity level. No player on this years starting five (a freshman, a sophomore, and three juniors) have ever played in a high school game below the varsity level.


4. League Philosophy-- The GMC for one is leaning more towards letting all players seek their own level. As a big school conference most can support three teams but they are designating them as varsity, junior varsity 1, and junior varsity 2. Our JV 2 team has both freshman and sophomores on it. The JV 1 team has freshman, sophomores, juniors and a senior on it. Varsity has a freshman (starter), sophomores, juniors, and seniors.

5. Specialization-- This had been mentioned earlier and I concur. We are now getting more players in all sports who are not even going out for their secondary sports as freshmen because their primary sports have year around activities

apeg 12-20-16 10:01 AM

Ha, Bob, I'm not sure the "GMC for one is leaning more towards letting all players seek their own level". Oak Hills, Mason, Lakota East all have true freshman teams. I don't know about Hamilton, Sycamore, and Princeton, but I wouldn't say the GMC is leaning- I'd say Lakota West is leaning. And, why would a senior be on a JV team?

Bob Ashby 12-20-16 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apeg (Post 6658662)
Ha, Bob, I'm not sure the "GMC for one is leaning more towards letting all players seek their own level". Oak Hills, Mason, Lakota East all have true freshman teams. I don't know about Hamilton, Sycamore, and Princeton, but I wouldn't say the GMC is leaning- I'd say Lakota West is leaning. And, why would a senior be on a JV team?

Princeton for one lists a JV team and a JV B team rather than a frosh team. The JV team shows 1 frosh, 4 soph, and 3 Juniors. The JV B team shows 5 frosh and 3 sophomores.

The league obviously allows JV 2 or JVB teams in place of freshman teams. There are at least two of the ten schools now organized that way. The league teams that prefer to have freshman only teams have consented to play the lower level mixed grade teams. That's what I meant by leaning in that direction.

As to why a senior would be on a JV team I don't know. That would be a question for the schools athletic department and coaching staff.

Mr. Slippery 12-20-16 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apeg (Post 6658662)
Ha, Bob, I'm not sure the "GMC for one is leaning more towards letting all players seek their own level". Oak Hills, Mason, Lakota East all have true freshman teams. I don't know about Hamilton, Sycamore, and Princeton, but I wouldn't say the GMC is leaning- I'd say Lakota West is leaning. And, why would a senior be on a JV team?

If it allows a program to have enough bodies to feel comfortable playing a JV schedule, why not? If I'm trying to develop the younger kids and keep them interested, I'll take a JV team with a senior or two on it over no JV team at all. I'm not familiar with the situation at the school in question, but my school (which is small and getting smaller) had a senior on JV a few years ago for that very reason. It's to the point where we can't afford to turn anyone away, or else we'd be down to only a varsity team with a group of young kids at the end of the bench who would be getting little to no playing time.

apeg 12-20-16 04:19 PM

OK, a smaller school trying to keep their program intact with a senior is one thing, but Lakota West has about 600 kids per grade. Princeton does not have those numbers and they are trying rebuild their program. With only 6 freshmen split between their two JV teams, obviously they don't have the numbers to field a freshman team. Big difference.

RAP 12-23-16 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kballer (Post 6657657)
Have 2 kids playing sports in college- I totally agree with the first part, but the mutisport part is tricky from out experience. College coaches say they want kids who play more than one sport, but the reality is if a kid is playing at a high level at more than one sport they aren't going to as many recruiting events.. Have a son who played 2 sports in high school and the summer basketball schedule for his high school team almost kept him from getting to the next level with his other sport. It wasn't until he dropped basketball (his passion since he was 5!) after his Junior year that he started being able to compete in events for his other sport that put him on the coaches radars. Luckily, he shined that last summer and is playing D1 at a great school that was a top choice of his, but he missed out on a lot of opportunities during the early recruiting his freshman, sophomore and into his junior year because of playing more than one sport. He watched kids that he routinely beat in high school get offers because they were able to devote themselves to the one sport and get coaches attention more easily by building a resume year round in the one sport.

Although I agree with your post in your situation. You and your kids are the exception if they are playing D1. Majority of the kids and there families pay out large sums of money over the years chasing that dream to play in college. Very few athlete achieve D1 scholarship status. The crazy thing is there are some athletes that do continue to play in college at D3 $40,000 a year tuition with no possible athletic scholarship available. My sarcastic opinion is that D3 colleges are the push behind all of the various organizations such at AAU, JO, summer baseball, etc. Look at all the athletic programs that the D3 schools have and there roster sizes. Any ways I could go on and on but bottom line too many seem to want to specialize to achieve that dream when in reality too many rack up a massive student loan debt in the end to play after high school.

Even on yappi i have seen numerous posts over the years about how freshman sports are irrelevant and poor quality. By the way I strongly disagree.

CCHS93 12-25-16 01:13 AM

Every team in the TRAC has a freshman team. They range in size from 6 players (Fremont Ross) to 12 players (TCC).

vikes 87 12-26-16 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Ashby (Post 6658967)
Princeton for one lists a JV team and a JV B team rather than a frosh team. The JV team shows 1 frosh, 4 soph, and 3 Juniors. The JV B team shows 5 frosh and 3 sophomores.

The league obviously allows JV 2 or JVB teams in place of freshman teams. There are at least two of the ten schools now organized that way. The league teams that prefer to have freshman only teams have consented to play the lower level mixed grade teams. That's what I meant by leaning in that direction.

As to why a senior would be on a JV team I don't know. That would be a question for the schools athletic department and coaching staff.

They also have 3 freshman listed on varisty as well . with a outstanding 8th grader at that level. i would think in 2-3 years the lady vikes might be making another trip up north

Yappi 12-26-16 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCHS93 (Post 6661901)
Every team in the TRAC has a freshman team. They range in size from 6 players (Fremont Ross) to 12 players (TCC).

That's great to see.

Yappi 12-26-16 04:54 PM

I think somewhere along the line, many forgot the meaning on high school sports. It's an extension of the school. Get as many players playing the sport as you can.

Way too many players "self-cut" today but there is good reason for that, the messages being sent to student-athletes is that you need to be on a certain path or you are wasting your time. Why can't someone play the sport and never play varsity? What is wrong with that? They are still doing something for/with their schoolmates.

The best part is that the more people playing the sport, the more likely a "diamond in the rough" will be found and maybe contribute to winning on the varsity level. Nothing wrong with that either.

I just wish school Presidents, Boards, Principals, and Athletic Directors would recognize the value that sports adds to a school. It is slowly slipping away in most high school sports. They need to make an effort at greater participation rates. It's good for the student and it's good for the school.

Bob Ashby 01-08-17 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apeg (Post 6658662)
Ha, Bob, I'm not sure the "GMC for one is leaning more towards letting all players seek their own level". Oak Hills, Mason, Lakota East all have true freshman teams. I don't know about Hamilton, Sycamore, and Princeton, but I wouldn't say the GMC is leaning- I'd say Lakota West is leaning. And, why would a senior be on a JV team?

In the quote above it is stated that Mason has a true freshman team. According to their web site they post rosters for their varsity and two JV teams. They list 12 frosh in their program, 1 varsity player (usually the starting point guard), 5 JV White team frosh (along with 3 soph & a junior) and 6 JV Green team frosh (along with three soph).

As stated earlier Lakota West had abandoned the frosh team for a varsity and two JV team system where all frosh sought their own level. It appears from the Mason web sight that both of these state top 10 schools are using the same system.

I have since found out that Middletown has abandoned their freshman team also. They now have just a varsity and JV team only with 10 frosh total playing. Three frosh are varsity starters, 2 as varsity subs, 1 a varsity JV swing player, and 4 who play exclusively on the JV team.

Also as mentioned earlier Princeton, the 2014 State champions have also abandoned an exclusive freshman team and have their freshman scattered over the Varsity and JV team. They are the smallest school in the GMC now but my prediction is that if and when they get back to three girls teams they will follow the model of Mason and Lakota West.

We'll see if the other six teams in the league adopt this system but my suspicions are that they will, since the three top teams in the league have.


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