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-   -   Good point about Private vs Public article from News Herald (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312291)

C'Town216 04-14-18 01:04 AM

Good point about Private vs Public article from News Herald
 
Have at it with the debate.IMO it was a well written article by Nate Barnes of the News Herald. It hits the nail about the constant argument. https://t.co/wFU3h7oLrv


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Vinegar 04-14-18 08:16 AM

Keep the focus on the kids, yes....

But, when those people where those shirts...it really has nothing to do with "we aren't as good." It has to do with being disgusted with "recruiting schools" and a true belief that their slice of Americana is the right way to do things.

Unfortunately, that isn't real life around any city or suburb of a city....and, with open enrollment, many public schools are now "recruiting schools" as well.

eastisbest 04-14-18 09:25 AM

The author lost at the title. Amateur hour article.


I imagine the article and perhaps even this thread is just an attempt at clickbate. Well done. Fooled me, I clicked.

When someone at the outset attempts to strengthen their point my devaluing another, they display little confidence in their knowledge of the subject, let alone in how to defend their premise. This article made no "good points." There was nothing new said. Continued use of "I" and "we," throws well written out the window. A puff opinion piece, nothing more and less than has been said and well supported by observationists on this and many other boards.


For a "journalist" to claim that debate devalues a human condition is to me, a indication that they hand out that title like cheap candy. Writer should go back to blogging.

Irish60 04-14-18 09:49 AM

I agree with eastisbest. I've seen better "journalism" on both sides of the issue on the threads of Yappi than contained in this article.

sehs 04-14-18 11:01 AM

I said this point a few years ago when Stow played St. Ed's in a regional final football game. Walking into the game, some Stow parents were talking about their fine season and how sad it would be to see it end tonight against the "professionals" at St. Ed's. They went on to say how unfair it was that their poor kids had to play kids that were clearly just better. I was thinking wow, all week your sons had to hear you guys talk about the game like this? This one is over before it will even start. Ed's won 45-7. From watching the game, Stow was not as outmatched as they would have believed but it became a self-fulfilling prophecy as the score became a blow out.

For those above saying it was poorly written for the use of "I" and "we", it is an opinion piece therefore I believe that is ok. It did not bring forth anything new but that does not mean its message was bad. The focus should always be on the kids and the more we remember that I think the better it becomes. While many love to point out that the private schools recruit (and they do "recruit," every student has to be enticed to go to that school, regardless of if they are athletes or not) they do not break rules as passed down by the OHSAA. If such rampant violations were present, then you would see many more schools punished for it, the facts show that in actuality its mostly public schools that violate OHSAA bylaws when it comes to recruiting.

One thing that gets lost in the whole debate is how much easier it is to coach at some schools, you can hire who you want to hire without having to go through a school board and union, you have the total backing of the school and in some cases do not have to deal with so many other sports to contend with for facilities. An all boys school that is a powerhouse for football, does not have to fight over the weight room with girls soccer in the Spring and summer or field time during the season. Many also forget that the teams they want to punish for being too good at their sports, creating an unfair playing field, aren't as many as they think. For every St. Ed's there is a St. Thomas Aquinas or Warren JFK, some years they are good and contend but for the most part are average.

Last thing I will say about coaching, in many private schools it is easier to remain a coach there, giving your program longevity and consistency. How many boys coaches get burnt out after 3 years or less? I would love to see a study of schools that have had the same head coach for 10 years or longer, suburban schools I think burn out coaches too quickly between parents, school red tape and other hassles.

Blue Jay Fan 04-14-18 11:11 AM

Here's the list for next season's Ohio high school basketball teams and football teams with competitive balance numbers. Not many public schools purely "homegrown".


http://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tourname...etball-2018-19

http://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tourname.../Football-2018

Irish60 04-14-18 11:15 AM

Hey, SEHS, your post is an example of the better "journalism" we see on Yappi than was contained in that article! Excellent post!

vamp2syd 04-14-18 12:09 PM

Can someone explain how they come up with the CB numbers and why the numbers are not the same for football and basketball....

Example: Trotwood is 361 in basketball, 362 for football.

If divisions are based on enrollment, that is a potential of all kids at your school being able to participate in a sport than why are the CB numbers only dictated per a sport and not an over all enrollment at the school. How does the OHSAA already know which students will be participating in football and basketball this next season..... Can the CB numbers change from what is listed to when the season begins?

winbypin 04-14-18 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp2syd (Post 7028237)
Can someone explain how they come up with the CB numbers and why the numbers are not the same for football and basketball....

Example: Trotwood is 361 in basketball, 362 for football.

If divisions are based on enrollment, that is a potential of all kids at your school being able to participate in a sport than why are the CB numbers only dictated per a sport and not an over all enrollment at the school. How does the OHSAA already know which students will be participating in football and basketball this next season..... Can the CB numbers change from what is listed to when the season begins?

Here ya go vamps. This should help answer some of your questions.

http://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resource...esource-Center

FootsWalker 04-14-18 05:50 PM

This article reminds me of some of the drivel I threw together in college when I remembered the night before that I had a 1000 word paper due at 8 AM.......

vamp2syd 04-15-18 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winbypin (Post 7028318)
Here ya go vamps. This should help answer some of your questions.

http://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resource...esource-Center

So, are they using the roster of this last season to determine the CB of the upcoming season?

Termite2 04-16-18 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp2syd (Post 7028623)
So, are they using the roster of this last season to determine the CB of the upcoming season?

Yes, the roster for each sport.

bengals wrestling 04-16-18 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp2syd (Post 7028237)
Can someone explain how they come up with the CB numbers and why the numbers are not the same for football and basketball....

Example: Trotwood is 361 in basketball, 362 for football.

Simple:
BB is enrollment + your BB roster with the multiplier added = adjusted enrollment.
FB is enrollment + your FB roster with the multiplier added = adjusted enrollment.

Example: Benedictine
BB is 264 + 80 = 344
FB is 264 + 169 = 433

Remember, a school's enrollment is comprised of the current 9th, 10th and 11th grade students. It does not count the graduating 12th grade class or the incoming 9th graders.

ohiopup 04-16-18 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengals wrestling (Post 7029090)
Simple:
BB is enrollment + your BB roster with the multiplier added = adjusted enrollment.
FB is enrollment + your FB roster with the multiplier added = adjusted enrollment.

Example: Benedictine
BB is 264 + 80 = 344
FB is 264 + 169 = 433

Remember, a school's enrollment is comprised of the current 9th, 10th and 11th grade students. It does not count the graduating 12th grade class or the incoming 9th graders.

Sort of dumb in a way...in the age of computers you would think that they can take
an enrollment count at the end of the first full week of school.

:>---

EGA

vamp2syd 04-16-18 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiopup (Post 7029104)
Sort of dumb in a way...in the age of computers you would think that they can take
an enrollment count at the end of the first full week of school.

:>---

EGA

I agree, this whole CB thing and how they figure it is dumb.

A team gets 6 transfers in who all graduated what this years team gets moved up a division because of it....

First off, divisions are made up of enrollment size not roster size so the CB totals should include every student that attends that school in 9th to 11th regardless if they play a sport or not.

It would not be that hard to figure out these numbers during the current school season. The numbers could be gathered within the first few weeks of school and division/regional assignments could be done by the end of week 3.

Shaky 04-16-18 01:49 PM

Ask Badin (227 boys) about competitive balance and moving up to D1 in baseball to play the likes of Mason (1,357 boys). . . OUCH!!!!

https://www.journal-news.com/sports/...20t5yWW8dCwZJ/

spirit454 04-16-18 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaky (Post 7029134)
Ask Badin (227 boys) about competitive balance and moving up to D1 in baseball to play the likes of Mason (1,357 boys). . . OUCH!!!!

Badin has a competitive balance number of 159 and 27 of their kids are tier 2, meaning a lot of transfers have taken place while Mason has a number of 7 and only one tier 2 player.

winbypin 04-16-18 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp2syd (Post 7029116)
I agree, this whole CB thing and how they figure it is dumb.

A team gets 6 transfers in who all graduated what this years team gets moved up a division because of it....

First off, divisions are made up of enrollment size not roster size so the CB totals should include every student that attends that school in 9th to 11th regardless if they play a sport or not.

It would not be that hard to figure out these numbers during the current school season. The numbers could be gathered within the first few weeks of school and division/regional assignments could be done by the end of week 3.

They start with enrollment size and then they add in CB specific to the sport. This way football isn't getting penalized for basketball transfers and vice versa. They don't care about the tuba player or math wiz that transferred in. Just the athletes in those sports.

This was put in place to stop non D1 schools (can't move them up) from transferring in studs to win state titles in the lower divisions. It's an attempt to keep all star teams from forming.

Shaky 04-17-18 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit454 (Post 7029171)
Badin has a competitive balance number of 159 and 27 of their kids are tier 2, meaning a lot of transfers have taken place while Mason has a number of 7 and only one tier 2 player.

Badin's Tier 1 is a joke. . .Sacred Heart (6 miles) and Queen of Peace (3 miles) aren't consider feeder schools to Badin. This isn't even up for discussion. . WTH!!!

Badin's Tier 2 aren't all transfers, most are kids who enrolled at Badin as Freshman that attended public schools for middle school.

At end of the day, Badin is only parochial high school in Butler County. . .not just in the city of Hamilton. They will continue to get penalized for being the #1 option of a county with a population of 375,000.

hammer89 04-17-18 11:43 AM

From the article- "Treadway has 11 players who have already committed to play at the next level. The Rams have a nonconference schedule stocked with D-I schools. Thatís been a staple of the program through the years and part of the reason Badin has been so successful in the lower divisions."

So they're good enough to play against D1 schools regular season, good enough to have 11 college players, but god forbid they play in the D1 tournament? got it.

winbypin 04-17-18 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaky (Post 7029795)
Badin's Tier 1 is a joke. . .Sacred Heart (6 miles) and Queen of Peace (3 miles) aren't consider feeder schools to Badin. This isn't even up for discussion. . WTH!!!

Badin's Tier 2 aren't all transfers, most are kids who enrolled at Badin as Freshman that attended public schools for middle school.

At end of the day, Badin is only parochial high school in Butler County. . .not just in the city of Hamilton. They will continue to get penalized for being the #1 option of a county with a population of 375,000.

Is Fenwick in Warren county then? Not sure where the county lines fall.

luvhsfb 04-17-18 08:03 PM

One thing for sure cannot win debating religion,politics or public vs private debate.Opinions cast in stone!

Shaky 04-18-18 08:32 AM

Bishop Fenwick is in Warren County. As for Badin in 2018, they have talent! Considering the limited pool and small enrollment they grab from, it's pretty impressive the level of success they've had over the long haul.

So not playing schools their size, not scheduling non-conference cupcakes, and having success automatically makes them D1? OK, that logic makes no damn sense!! Guess a school right down the road like Hamilton, who struggles in the GMC and plays non-conference cupcakes (no GCL South squads) should be eligible for D2? lol

Stirred not Shaken 04-18-18 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiopup (Post 7029104)
Sort of dumb in a way...in the age of computers you would think that they can take
an enrollment count at the end of the first full week of school.

:>---

EGA

I agree they could post what division each school is in by early August of that school year. At least that would count the transfers for football not sure if that would help any as far as bball is concerned.


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