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Sig Hansen 10-03-16 12:12 PM

The Official 2017 Cincinnati Reds Thread
 
Price returns, and the Reds get the #2 pick in the draft. Sad I don't get to watch Joe Votto hit for another 5 months. His season will go down as one of the most impressive in Reds history that no one will remember.

Go Reds

eastside_purple 10-03-16 12:20 PM

Sig closed the 2016 thread before I could answer wolf and voice about my post re: no one wanting the Reds manager job. Of course I was speaking in hyperbole, which I thought was obvious. Of course there are many Price-comparables who would take the Reds job in a heatbeat. No top-tier manager will want the Reds manager job until there are definite signs of a turnaround. Besides, Price is a decent pitching coach, so they likely see value in having him shepard in this young group of arms. After a year or two, Price will be a MLB pitching coach again.

WinstonSmith 10-03-16 12:36 PM

I concur.

14Red 10-03-16 03:04 PM

Still feel the jury is out on Price as a big league manager. You really can't evaluate him this season. The Reds were not going to be contenders and he had no rotation to begin the season, and less of a bullpen.

If getting players to play hard for you is a requirement, then I think Price has to get a thumbs up. This team could have really tanked after the all star game, but they played nearly .500 baseball. Considering the injuries and the youthful pitching staff, I think he did a pretty good job.

ronnie mund 10-03-16 03:10 PM

Just happy Cincinnati will have a team come 2017!

thavoice 10-03-16 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside_purple (Post 6569544)
Sig closed the 2016 thread before I could answer wolf and voice about my post re: no one wanting the Reds manager job. Of course I was speaking in hyperbole, which I thought was obvious. Of course there are many Price-comparables who would take the Reds job in a heatbeat. No top-tier manager will want the Reds manager job until there are definite signs of a turnaround. Besides, Price is a decent pitching coach, so they likely see value in having him shepard in this young group of arms. After a year or two, Price will be a MLB pitching coach again.

Just curious, what 'top tier' managers do you think that are out there and jobless and wanting another job right now?

I dont know.

I think he earned another season with how they finished and improved. I agree with you to a point though that if he was indeed fired and Rigglemen didnt get it I doubt there would be any big name guys stepping up to take it.

Reds dont have a managerial problem, they have a talent problem.

14Red 10-04-16 09:29 AM

The thing Reds fans have to look at is not the first 2 1/2 months of the season, but the last 2 1/2 months. The first two months, we had a bunch of guys, mostly pitchers, who were not on the team, or will not be on the team moving forward. Guys like Ross Olendorf, JJ Hoover, Tim Melville, Caleb Cotham, Alfredo Simon, JC Ramirez, Keyveus Sampson and Daniel Wright were pitching for us due to injuries. The bullpen, other than Iglesias, Lorenzen and Blake Wood, needs a complete overhaul. The good part is the minor leagues has alot of good young arms and those who don't make the rotation may be bullpen guys, at least some of them.

Jhubbs77 10-04-16 11:17 AM

Do the Reds still have Straily on contract or was it a 1-year deal? They should try and trade him for anything they can get to some team trying to contend next season that needs another arm

Sig Hansen 10-04-16 01:40 PM

Straily is only 27, he could be a solid back of the rotation pitcher for quite awhile as long as this year wasn't an anomaly. He'd potentially be worth more than whatever mid level prospect the Reds would get in return for him imo

14Red 10-04-16 02:12 PM

According to baseball-reference.com, Strailey is signed through '16, and arbitration eligible in '18. Not sure what that means for '17, but the Reds need to keep this guy. As Sig pointed out, he's a great #3, #4 or #5 rotation guy. He's Bronson Arroyo, he's Mike Leake. And for now, he's pretty darn cheap. Saw him on Sunday's broadcast speaking at length with Robert Stephenson. With a young staff, the Reds need veteran pitchers to help these kids along. Strailey's a finished product, he's not a prospect, the Reds need guys they can count on. At least a few of them. If a couple of our young arms really kill it in the spring, you can always move Strailey into a long relieve role. But as of now, he's got to be in the '17 rotation.

eastside_purple 10-04-16 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig Hansen (Post 6570756)
Straily is only 27, he could be a solid back of the rotation pitcher for quite awhile as long as this year wasn't an anomaly. He'd potentially be worth more than whatever mid level prospect the Reds would get in return for him imo

Agree.

14Red 10-04-16 02:25 PM

During the broadcast Sunday, the Reds broadcasters and Fox Sports Ohio put together a list of starting pitching options for '17.

Looks like this...
Experienced - Bailey, Desclafani, Finnigan and Straily
Wild cards - Iglesias and Lorenzen
Under control - Adelman, Lamb, Moscot, Reed, Smith and Stephenson
Minor leagues - Davis, Garritt, Romano, Travieso

So from that group, you need 5 starters next year. My feelings is that Lorenzen and Iglesias are best served in the back end of the bullpen. They have both started the last two seasons, and through injury and struggles, I don't think they are equipped to start games and go 5-7 innings. But both have good enough stuff to be back end bullpen guys. Lorenzen was a closer in college. I could even see Finnigan be a bullpen guy someday, he just really struggled this year keeping his pitch counts down, he'd be in the 90+ pitch range in the 4th or 5th inning too many times. But he may get a shot at starting. Lamb, Moscot, Reed or Stephenson will probably get a starting spot, or they may bounce it back and forth based on performance.
The good part is with Davis, Garritt, Travieso in the minors, you probably will have another good starter ready to go by '18.

eastside_purple 10-04-16 02:42 PM

Sounds like the Reds are going to be really really really good at pitching.

ronnie mund 10-04-16 02:49 PM

Didn't know they would need 5 starting pitchers for next year.

WinstonSmith 10-04-16 03:12 PM

I agree they should keep Straily, but there's no need for 14Red to compare him to Arroyo.

Jhubbs77 10-04-16 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig Hansen (Post 6570756)
Straily is only 27, he could be a solid back of the rotation pitcher for quite awhile as long as this year wasn't an anomaly. He'd potentially be worth more than whatever mid level prospect the Reds would get in return for him imo

The metrics seem to suggest that he could have a very sizable decline in numbers next year. I don't view him much differently than Simon after his nice year with us. Obviously, it depends on what they could get in return but if it was anything worthwhile I would do it

Jhubbs77 10-04-16 05:14 PM

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...2016/90867594/

I'd imagine he'll still give up a ton of homers next year, given GABP and his fly ball style. If the other things come closer to normal baselines, that could be one ugly season

eastside_purple 10-04-16 05:37 PM

Yeah, Straily doesn't excite me either.

TroyTrojan05 10-04-16 08:53 PM

My rotation would be this.

1. Desclafani
2. Bailey (by default)
3. Igelsias
4. Straily
5. Finnegan

But my best guess at what it will actually be

1. Desclafani
2. Bailey
3. Straily
4. Finnegan
5. Stephenson (unfortunately)
6. They could even opt to go with a 6 man rotation

wolves82 10-05-16 06:00 AM

First month or so I was not big on Straily; just so-so stuff by big league standards and he got released for a reason. But he showed decent grit, location and mental makeup. Could be a one-year anomaly but based on his performance I think he earned a shot next year. Hopefully he figured something out and has turned the corner.

As for Iglesias, sorry 14Red but he proved he can get you consistently into the 7th or beyond. Check his starts the season and half before the injury. I think he could be the #1 guy on this rotation. Stretch him out and use him in a valuable role. Don't waste him in the pen.

As for Moscot, Lamb, Adelman, possibly Stephenson. Nope. Need to develop in the minors or dump 'em.

eastside_purple 10-05-16 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolves82 (Post 6571387)
First month or so I was not big on Straily; just so-so stuff by big league standards and he got released for a reason. But he showed decent grit, location and mental makeup. Could be a one-year anomaly but based on his performance I think he earned a shot next year. Hopefully he figured something out and has turned the corner.

As for Iglesias, sorry 14Red but he proved he can get you consistently into the 7th or beyond. Check his starts the season and half before the injury. I think he could be the #1 guy on this rotation. Stretch him out and use him in a valuable role. Don't waste him in the pen.

As for Moscot, Lamb, Adelman, possibly Stephenson. Nope. Need to develop in the minors or dump 'em.

I think there is a lot of doubt in the organization that Iglesias' arm has enough innings in it to be a reliable MLB starter. That's a tough call, because he probably is the most talented pitcher on the roster.

14Red 10-05-16 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhubbs77 (Post 6571010)
The metrics seem to suggest that he could have a very sizable decline in numbers next year. I don't view him much differently than Simon after his nice year with us. Obviously, it depends on what they could get in return but if it was anything worthwhile I would do it

No doubt, that's very possible. Maybe everything just came together for him in 2016. He could easily fall on his face in '17. Obviously, he'd not impressed anyone before '16 to keep him around.
But he did perform this year, and with that performance, he's earned a shot in the rotation for '17. Seeing as anyone could have got him 5 months ago for nothing, I'd be surprised that much was offered now.

14Red 10-05-16 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolves82 (Post 6571387)
First month or so I was not big on Straily; just so-so stuff by big league standards and he got released for a reason. But he showed decent grit, location and mental makeup. Could be a one-year anomaly but based on his performance I think he earned a shot next year. Hopefully he figured something out and has turned the corner.

As for Iglesias, sorry 14Red but he proved he can get you consistently into the 7th or beyond. Check his starts the season and half before the injury. I think he could be the #1 guy on this rotation. Stretch him out and use him in a valuable role. Don't waste him in the pen.

As for Moscot, Lamb, Adelman, possibly Stephenson. Nope. Need to develop in the minors or dump 'em.

My apprehension on Iglesias is just that...injuries. He started the last two years, and didn't make it for more than 2 months because he breaks down with more innings. He's a relief pitcher, nothing wrong with that. In fact, I'd rather he be able to affect 3-4 games per week out of the bullpen, than 1-2 games where he only goes 5 innings. Much like Chapman, everyone thinks he would have been a great starting pitcher and there's nothing that says that. He was and is a great closer.

thavoice 10-05-16 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside_purple (Post 6571032)
Yeah, Straily doesn't excite me either.

Why not?
He gets guys out.

You realize that no pitcher in REDS history has had more starts in 1 season giving up 3 hits or less.

That. Is. Impressive.


Start Iglesias in the rotation....if he flounder then put him back into the BP.

eastside_purple 10-05-16 02:58 PM

Doubt it's sustainable. He'll likely regress back to his baseline next year.

I think the last two years have shown Iglesias has a bullpen arm, just doesn't have the innings in it needed to start. It would be difficult to stretch him out to start next year given his inning production over the last couple years.

Sig Hansen 10-05-16 03:10 PM

Iglesias is already 26 too. Eventually you have to quit experimenting with the guy and let him settle into his role. Somewhat disappointing, but if he can be a dynamite back of the rotation guy then so be it.

14Red 10-05-16 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thavoice (Post 6571708)
Why not?
He gets guys out.

You realize that no pitcher in REDS history has had more starts in 1 season giving up 3 hits or less.

That. Is. Impressive.


Start Iglesias in the rotation....if he flounder then put him back into the BP.

But for Iglesias...what if he injures himself in the rotation?? Then you can't put him in the bullpen. He's started the last two seasons and not been able to take the workload. He's a backend bullpen guy in my eyes.

wolves82 10-06-16 10:51 AM

Backend bullpen guys have no value on teams with sub-par starting pitching. Getting holds and saves on a 70-win team is pointless. It is ALL about starting pitching. Five best guys need to be in the rotation. That means Iglesias. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt, but need to try to do what is smart.

If you have doubts, go here: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/pitching/

This list of pitchers salaries illustrates what is valuable. Starting pitching. When you get down to the 40th highest salary you start to see names like Chapman, Kimbrel, Robertson - the closers.

eastside_purple 10-06-16 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolves82 (Post 6572696)
Backend bullpen guys have no value on teams with sub-par starting pitching. Getting holds and saves on a 70-win team is pointless. It is ALL about starting pitching. Five best guys need to be in the rotation. That means Iglesias. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt, but need to try to do what is smart.

If you have doubts, go here: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/pitching/

This list of pitchers salaries illustrates what is valuable. Starting pitching. When you get down to the 40th highest salary you start to see names like Chapman, Kimbrel, Robertson - the closers.

It's not a matter of which is more important: starters v relievers, I think everyone recognizes the value of a quality starter; the issue is Iglesias has shown, without a doubt two years in a row, he doesn't have the arm to pitch the number of innings a quality starter needs to give. :shrug:

TroyTrojan05 10-06-16 12:41 PM

Maybe the Reds can sign Bartolo Colon. I don't know his contract status but if they want a cheap front end starter, he is that.


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