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cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 02:23 PM

2018 Cleveland Browns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DB135 (Post 6956818)


DB posted this^ in the old 2017 thread, so it seemed a good occasion to begin the new season thread.

If anyone wants to discuss all the FORMER Browns players in the playoffs, please do it in another thread. :dang: Too depressing to start a season that way.

cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 05:07 PM

After just watching the NFL's leading rusher, a 3rd rounder from NEO, effectively alternate between setting up play action passes and gashing the 4th ranked run defense before scoring the game's first TD, I am increasingly convinced that Saquon Barkley is a luxury that the Browns cannot afford.

Haslam hired Dorsey in part to find us a great back with a 2nd round pick. Let the man work.

Username1 01-06-18 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo (Post 6956873)
DB posted this^ in the old 2017 thread, so it seemed a good occasion to begin the new season thread.

If anyone wants to discuss all the FORMER Browns players in the playoffs, please do it in another thread. :dang: Too depressing to start a season that way.

How many players from the Browns are in the playoffs?

Crusaders 01-06-18 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo (Post 6956985)
After just watching the NFL's leading rusher, a 3rd rounder from NEO, effectively alternate between setting up play action passes and gashing the 4th ranked run defense before scoring the game's first TD, I am increasingly convinced that Saquon Barkley is a luxury that the Browns cannot afford.

Haslam hired Dorsey in part to find us a great back with a 2nd round pick. Let the man work.

Every position has middle round successes but you're far more likely to get an elite talent in the first round.

Barkley wouldn't be luxury anymore than Zeke, Gurley, or Fournette are luxuries. Browns would be dumb not to take him if they're not going for a QB + Fitzpatrick. Personally, I think they need a huge influx of talent on offense, including RB. Barkley would be a great addition.

eastside_purple 01-06-18 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 6956988)
How many players from the Browns are in the playoffs?

AFC
New England Patriots: QB Brian Hoyer (2014), RB Dion Lewis (2014), WR Kenny Britt (2017), CB Johnson Bademosi (2015)
Pittsburgh Steelers: RB Terrell Watson (2016)**, LB L.J. Fort (2012), CB Joe Haden (2017)
Jacksonville Jaguars: RB Brandon Wilds (2017)**, WR Shane Wynn (2015)*, OLB Deon King (2017)**, FS Tashaun Gipson (2014)
Kansas City Chiefs: RB George Atkinson (2017)**, OL Mitchell Schwartz (2015), OL Cameron Erving (2017), OL Kaleb Johnson (2015)**, DE Tyrone Holmes (2017)**
Tennessee Titans: QB Brandon Weeden (2013), QB Alex Tanney (2013)*, WR Darius Jennings (2016)**
Buffalo Bills: FS Jordan Poyer (2016)

NFC
Philadelphia Eagles: WR Bryce Treggs (2017)**
Minnesota Vikings: N/A
Los Angeles Rams: N/A
New Orleans Saints: WR Willie Snead (2014), OL Gabe Ikard (2017)**, OLB Craig Robertson (2015)
Carolina Panthers: QB Derek Anderson (2009), RB Fozzy Whittaker (2013), WR Rasheed Bailey (2017)**, WR Charles Johnson (2014)*, OL Dan France (2016)*, P Michael Palardy (2016)
Atlanta Falcons: RB Terrance Magee (2017)**, WR Taylor Gabriel (2016), WR Reggie Davis (2017)**, C Alex Mack (2015), OL Austin Pasztor (2016), DT Ahtyba Rubin (2014), CB Leon McFadden (2014)

*is currently on IR
**is currently on practice squad

Neopolitan 01-06-18 05:26 PM

After watching Tom Brady the past 15 seasons I'm convinced it's a luxury to take a QB before the 6th round.

eastside_purple 01-06-18 05:31 PM

Hasalm specifically hired Dorsey to draft a second round RB? :laugh:

eastside_purple 01-06-18 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neopolitan (Post 6957002)
After watching Tom Brady the past 15 seasons I'm convinced it's a luxury to take a QB before the 6th round.

Yup, after watching undrafted John Randleís HOF career, Iím convinced itís a luxury to draft a defensive tackle at all.

cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 6956988)
How many players from the Browns are in the playoffs?

Ted's mom is a wide receiver!!

y2h 01-06-18 08:04 PM

One positive of the Chiefs loss is it might make Alex Smith more expendable.

cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusaders (Post 6956999)
Every position has middle round successes but you're far more likely to get an elite talent in the first round.

Barkley wouldn't be luxury anymore than Zeke, Gurley, or Fournette are luxuries. Browns would be dumb not to take him if they're not going for a QB + Fitzpatrick. Personally, I think they need a huge influx of talent on offense, including RB. Barkley would be a great addition.

For the Browns, he would be. They are in need of a few key starters and a lot of depth. Middle round successes are more common at RB than at QB or WR, for example. The shelf life of an RB is relatively short, and it's become a platoon position.

cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside_purple (Post 6957007)
Hasalm specifically hired Dorsey to draft a second round RB? :laugh:

Among other things, yes. They have 3 2nd rounders, so maybe an OLB with their own 2nd. It's a long list. Or a WR......another DT ?

Maybe that RB with one of the 2 3rds :dang:

cabezadecaballo 01-06-18 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2h (Post 6957095)
One positive of the Chiefs loss is it might make Alex Smith more expendable.

Let the Mahommes era begin!!


I was thinking the same. Gruden was singing his praises in the first half.....

Crusaders 01-06-18 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo (Post 6957107)
For the Browns, he would be. They are in need of a few key starters and a lot of depth. Middle round successes are more common at RB than at QB or WR, for example. The shelf life of an RB is relatively short, and it's become a platoon position.

There's no such thing as a luxury. Either you have an elite player or you don't. The purpose of taking a player early is to give yourself a higher chance for landing an elite player.

There are more middle round successes at RB and WR than QB simply because coaches give players at the positions more opportunities. Musical chairs with QBs is pretty rare, usually reserves for teams that are in really bad shape.

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusaders (Post 6957147)
There's no such thing as a luxury. Either you have an elite player or you don't. The purpose of taking a player early is to give yourself a higher chance for landing an elite player.

There are more middle round successes at RB and WR than QB simply because coaches give players at the positions more opportunities. Musical chairs with QBs is pretty rare, usually reserves for teams that are in really bad shape.

It's pretty plain to most that an offense with a great line and some excellent receivers can be highly successful without an "elite" RB. Elite level talent is of greater lasting value at other positions, QB in particular. Most people realize this.

Your frequency of repetition lends no greater veracity to your RB obsession.

Crusaders 01-07-18 12:35 AM

I have no RB obsession, you are downplaying the position to an absurd degree. And your point is wrong to boot. The Steelers without Bell are not as good. The Cowboys without Zeke. The Rams without Gurley. Etc.

joesports 01-07-18 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusaders (Post 6957225)
I have no RB obsession, you are downplaying the position to an absurd degree. And your point is wrong to boot. The Steelers without Bell are not as good. The Cowboys without Zeke. The Rams without Gurley. Etc.

... who is New England's elite back? ... how many Super Bowls have Zeke, Bell, & Gurley won so far? ... what about Adrian Peterson? ... how many Super Bowls has NE won without and elite RB?

RB can make a team better ... no doubt, but to act like you can't be good without one is simply false ... name the elite RBs who won Super Bowls ... then name teams that won Super Bowls without an elite QB ... many teams win with a stable of decent RBs.

I like Barkley ... I think he will be an NFL weapon ... but the #1 priority for the Browns is a QB ... if the Steelers had to choose between Roethlisberger & Bell ... they would pick the QB 10 out of 10 times. (by the way ... when was Bell drafted? ... 2nd round)

The Browns are going to take a QB with the first pick ... so who should they take with the 4th pick ... to me it should be the best player in the draft ... Minka Fitzpatrick ... he could help the defense become elite.

Crusaders 01-07-18 02:34 AM

Sure if you have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick you can win SBs with a committee of RBs but that is far from the norm.

Username1 01-07-18 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo (Post 6957064)
Ted's mom is a wide receiver!!

I couldn't resist.

cjb56 01-07-18 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joesports (Post 6957234)
... who is New England's elite back? ... how many Super Bowls have Zeke, Bell, & Gurley won so far? ... what about Adrian Peterson? ... how many Super Bowls has NE won without and elite RB?

RB can make a team better ... no doubt, but to act like you can't be good without one is simply false ... name the elite RBs who won Super Bowls ... then name teams that won Super Bowls without an elite QB ... many teams win with a stable of decent RBs.

I like Barkley ... I think he will be an NFL weapon ... but the #1 priority for the Browns is a QB ... if the Steelers had to choose between Roethlisberger & Bell ... they would pick the QB 10 out of 10 times. (by the way ... when was Bell drafted? ... 2nd round)

The Browns are going to take a QB with the first pick ... so who should they take with the 4th pick ... to me it should be the best player in the draft ... Minka Fitzpatrick ... he could help the defense become elite.

This is a good post. There are many paths to a Super Bowl, but the best way to be in the mix for the SB every season is to have the elite QB. Iím just not sure who that is in this draft, but Dorsey is paid to know it. If he strikes gold, the franchise becomes relevant again. If he fails, he joins a long line.

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 6957260)
I couldn't resist.

Just like your mom!!

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjb56 (Post 6957283)
This is a good post. There are many paths to a Super Bowl, but the best way to be in the mix for the SB every season is to have the elite QB. I’m just not sure who that is in this draft, but Dorsey is paid to know it. If he strikes gold, the franchise becomes relevant again. If he fails, he joins a long line.

Yeah, Stark Co traitor/transplanted Stiller yinzer Crusaders does not want to see the Browns find their QB. He knows Barkley goes high and wants us to burn our pick. The only way I see Barkley is if they sign Cousins to 4+.

Even when he isn't feeding disinformation, 'saders is tenacious and will ride an argument right off the cliff. joesports is 100% correct, but if Joe goes down the path of fully developing the QB>RB argument with Yinzer-boy 'saders, he'll be here all day in an endless cyclical absurdity with the Boy Wonder. (also, if he starts in with a rumor-mill, unsubstantiated character assassination of Rosen, he'll be distracted by me sniping at him from the cheap seats while 'saders blathers on :D )I just emphasize one point to 'saders and bore him away these days ;)

add - As far as this point^, I like Dorsey hanging on to Kizer for odds here. With a different OC and Dorsey leaning on the play-calling, Kizer could at least prove a capable back-up. His resume' is going to require reps he's not likely to see for his salary potential to EVER recover, so he's always going to be cheap. Sorry, DeShone. You had a chance, even if Hue's pass-happy panic killed your chances for success a bit.

y2h 01-07-18 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo (Post 6957296)
Yeah, Stark Co traitor/transplanted Stiller yinzer Crusaders does not want to see the Browns find their QB. He knows Barkley goes high and wants us to burn our pick. The only way I see Barkley is if they sign Cousins to 4+.

Even when he isn't feeding disinformation, 'saders is tenacious and will ride an argument right off the cliff. joesports is 100% correct, but if Joe goes down the path of fully developing the QB>RB argument with Yinzer-boy 'saders, he'll be here all day in an endless cyclical absurdity with the Boy Wonder. (also, if he starts in with a rumor-mill, unsubstantiated character assassination of Rosen, he'll be distracted by me sniping at him from the cheap seats while 'saders blathers on :D )I just emphasize one point to 'saders and bore him away these days ;)

add - As far as this point^, I like Dorsey hanging on to Kizer for odds here. With a different OC and Dorsey leaning on the play-calling, Kizer could at least prove a capable back-up. His resume' is going to require reps he's not likely to see for his salary potential to EVER recover, so he's always going to be cheap. Sorry, DeShone. You had a chance, even if Hue's pass-happy panic killed your chances for success a bit.

They aren't going to find their QB in this draft.

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 10:40 AM

Hue says that he will honor his promise to jump in Lake Erie, and will do it for charity in conjunction with the Hue Jackson Foundation. Sounds good, but he'd better get it done before the Lake is totally frozen over.

Is anyone that has mixed feelings about Hue's return in 2018 thinking of William Henry Harrison ?

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2h (Post 6957304)
They aren't going to find their QB in this draft.

Your opinion, and all the respect that it is due as a fan and message board poster, is duly noted.

I'm inclined to trust Dorsey and Alonzo Highsmith. If they agree with you AND it's proven correct, I'll throw you a "good call" in about 3 years when we know for sure :thumb:

cabezadecaballo 01-07-18 11:15 AM

Just heard a jr. radio goof say that Kareem Hunt is the reason why the Browns should take Barkley.......after saying that he wants no Alex Smith on the roster preventing Rosen from starting Day One AND previously saying that Hue "ruined" Kizer......

:laugh: Where do they find these guys ?

Neopolitan 01-07-18 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusaders (Post 6957236)
Sure if you have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick you can win SBs with a committee of RBs but that is far from the norm.

And you can win them without elite WR's. Their top 3 receivers when they won the SB last year were Edleman, Amendola, and Hogan. 3 white guys, one of which was a college lacrosse player.

Trying to replicate the Patriots model is useless unless you have the best coach & QB in NFL history.

joesports 01-07-18 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neopolitan (Post 6957358)
And you can win them without elite WR's. Their top 3 receivers when they won the SB last year were Edleman, Amendola, and Hogan. 3 white guys, one of which was a college lacrosse player

Trying to replicate the Patriots model is useless unless you have the best coach & QB in NFL history.

Last 15 SB winners leading rushers
2002/2003 season - Michael Pittman (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
2003/2004 season - Antoine Smith/Kevin Faulk (New England Patriots)
2004/2005 season - Corey Dillon (New England Patriots) *
2005/2006 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)
2006/2007 season - Dominic Rhodes (Indianapolis Colts)
2007/2008 season - Brandon Jacobs (New York Giants)
2008/2009 season - Willie Parker (Pittsburgh Steelers)
2009/2010 season - Pierre Thomas most yards, Mike Bell most attempts (New Orleans Saints)
2010/2011 season - Brandon Jackson/James Starks (Green Bay Packers)
2011/2012 season - Ahmad Bradshaw (New York Giants)
2012/2013 season - Ray Rice (Baltimore Ravens) *
2013/2014 season - Marshawn Lynch (Seattle Seahawks) *
2014/2015 season - Shane Vereen , though by committee (New England Patriots)
2015/2016 season - Ronnie Hillman (Denver Broncos)
2016/2017 season - LaGarrett Blount (New England Patroits)

Littered with HOFers

cjb56 01-07-18 03:17 PM

The Bills vs Jags playoff game features two excellent RB’s in McCoy and Fournette, but the offenses are struggling...not just due to the play of the defenses...but because Taylor and Bortles are mediocre QB’s.

joesports 01-07-18 03:27 PM

Oder of importance by position (no proof just my opinion)
1) QB
2) DL
3) DB/OL
4) WR/TE
5) LB
6) RB
7) K
8) P
9) KR


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