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-   -   Week 8 - Elder (4-3) at Winton Woods (7-0) (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306563)

Pantherontheporch 10-09-17 09:01 AM

Week 8 - Elder (4-3) at Winton Woods (7-0)
 
Joe Eitel has the Panthers ninth in R4 as they head up to Forest Park to take on Winton Woods, who count back-to-back road victories over LaSalle (18-15) and our old foe Indy Bishop Chatard (28-27) among their wins. The Warriors have won the last two games against the Panthers: a 14-0 shutout in 2015 and 26-14 last year.
I don’t think anyone saw the Panther beatdown of the Crusaders coming last week; I surely didn’t. With the Warriors 99.44% in the playoffs (they finish with games at C-bus St. Francis DeSales and at home against Moe) and the Panthers on the outside looking in, I think if the Panthers that dismantled Moe show up Friday night they will find a way to take this one.
If Nieman is healthy, it will be interesting to see how much he and Bittner each play.

Descartes 10-09-17 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherontheporch (Post 6864157)
Joe Eitel has the Panthers ninth in R4 as they head up to Forest Park to take on Winton Woods, who count back-to-back road victories over LaSalle (18-15) and our old foe Indy Bishop Chatard (28-27) among their wins. The Warriors have won the last two games against the Panthers: a 14-0 shutout in 2015 and 26-14 last year.
I don’t think anyone saw the Panther beatdown of the Crusaders coming last week; I surely didn’t. With the Warriors 99.44% in the playoffs (they finish with games at C-bus St. Francis DeSales and at home against Moe) and the Panthers on the outside looking in, I think if the Panthers that dismantled Moe show up Friday night they will find a way to take this one.
If Nieman is healthy, it will be interesting to see how much he and Bittner each play.

It shouldn't matter at all if Nieman is healthy, if Elder is serious about winning, Bittner will start.

Jerry Maguire 10-09-17 10:47 AM

Gotta give Bittner the first couple series to himself and see if he can get into a rhythm. If he can't against a super athletic WW team then I can understand letting Nieman in to get the pass game going because Elder is going to need it to win, but if Bittner is playing well from the start, Ramsey must stick with him. It's a tough call to make because Nieman is a good player, but this is a game where Elder needs the best athletes making plays as much as possible.

Descartes 10-09-17 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Maguire (Post 6864310)
Gotta give Bittner the first couple series to himself and see if he can get into a rhythm. If he can't against a super athletic WW team then I can understand letting Nieman in to get the pass game going because Elder is going to need it to win, but if Bittner is playing well from the start, Ramsey must stick with him. It's a tough call to make because Nieman is a good player, but this is a game where Elder needs the best athletes making plays as much as possible.

Agreed. It's not that Nieman played so poorly he deserved to lose the job. Bittner has played that well.

adselder09 10-09-17 11:40 AM

I've heard conflicting things regarding Nieman's availability. Regardless I agree with you JM, especially if Nieman isn't cleared for practice as of today. Hopefully Nieman's status is kept under wraps to a degree as he and Bittner are two different QBs to plan for.

Descartes 10-09-17 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adselder09 (Post 6864384)
I've heard conflicting things regarding Nieman's availability. Regardless I agree with you JM, especially if Nieman isn't cleared for practice as of today. Hopefully Nieman's status is kept under wraps to a degree as he and Bittner are two different QBs to plan for.

I love Bittner's ability to run, but I'd like to see him take less hits. He seems to take on much more contact than other running QBs like Ramsey or Florian.

?????? 10-09-17 09:09 PM

Kind a felt Elder would crush the crusaders as I was familiar with them and how much Deuce meant to that offense. All bets are off this week, nothing would surprise me. I think the duel threat off bittner and Mazza is alot for anyone to handle especially if bittner continues to throw as well as he did last week. For that reason I will pick elder to eat clock and win a close one.

Visitation_Football 10-09-17 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherontheporch (Post 6864157)
If Nieman is healthy, it will be interesting to see how much he and Bittner each play.

It shouldn't even be a debate. This is a completely different team with Bittner at QB. Elder consistently moves the chains with him in there changing the entire dynamic of the game. I don't see how you can put him back on the bench after the last two weeks. I think they can be a legit threat from here on out if he's the QB.

Descartes 10-10-17 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ?????? (Post 6865032)
Kind a felt Elder would crush the crusaders as I was familiar with them and how much Deuce meant to that offense. All bets are off this week, nothing would surprise me. I think the duel threat off bittner and Mazza is alot for anyone to handle especially if bittner continues to throw as well as he did last week. For that reason I will pick elder to eat clock and win a close one.

No doubt McBride would've been a help to the Offense, but their Defense is horrid

adselder09 10-10-17 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visitation_Football (Post 6865095)
It shouldn't even be a debate. This is a completely different team with Bittner at QB. Elder consistently moves the chains with him in there changing the entire dynamic of the game. I don't see how you can put him back on the bench after the last two weeks. I think they can be a legit threat from here on out if he's the QB.

Pump the brakes a bit. He played great against a horrid Moeller defense. He ran well and was able to move the ball against the X defense but he didn't throw it great against them. Yes he brings the dual threat ability and that's a big reason why he can have success but let's not get carried away over one week. I fully expect him to start against WW (remember he played the majority of the game against them last season) and I expect him to play well, but let's see how this week plays out before we bench the 2-year starter and captain of the team. Nieman was moving the offense out at X just as Bittner did after the injury. They both were able to lead field goal drives.

Starting to wonder if there's some sort of relation between you and the Bittner family. You've been saying Bittner should play since last season.

JElder 10-10-17 10:41 AM

[QUOTE=adselder09;6865241]Pump the brakes a bit. He played great against a horrid Moeller defense. He ran well and was able to move the ball against the X defense but he didn't throw it great against them. Yes he brings the dual threat ability and that's a big reason why he can have success but let's not get carried away over one week. I fully expect him to start against WW (remember he played the majority of the game against them last season) and I expect him to play well, but let's see how this week plays out before we bench the 2-year starter and captain of the team. Nieman was moving the offense out at X just as Bittner did after the injury. They both were able to lead field goal drives.

Starting to wonder if there's some sort of relation between you and the Bittner family. You've been saying Bittner should play since last season.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he was correct in saying he should be playing since last season. At best Nieman could be considered a slightly better passer, I would argue that though. And we all know Bittner brings an entirely new element to the running game.

Descartes 10-10-17 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=JElder;6865398]
Quote:

Originally Posted by adselder09 (Post 6865241)
Pump the brakes a bit. He played great against a horrid Moeller defense. He ran well and was able to move the ball against the X defense but he didn't throw it great against them. Yes he brings the dual threat ability and that's a big reason why he can have success but let's not get carried away over one week. I fully expect him to start against WW (remember he played the majority of the game against them last season) and I expect him to play well, but let's see how this week plays out before we bench the 2-year starter and captain of the team. Nieman was moving the offense out at X just as Bittner did after the injury. They both were able to lead field goal drives.

Starting to wonder if there's some sort of relation between you and the Bittner family. You've been saying Bittner should play since last season.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he was correct in saying he should be playing since last season. At best Nieman could be considered a slightly better passer, I would argue that though. And we all know Bittner brings an entirely new element to the running game.

I know Bittner takes more risks, but Elder needs that to beat teams that will score like WW. Nieman doesn't have the arm to make tight throws vs good Secondary's like WW.

?????? 10-10-17 11:08 AM

As much as Nieman deserves the job, and is a captain and leader of team. If, and big If, Nieman can't play, and Bittner repeats that performance from the Moe game, along with an Elder win, Bittner's job. Moe's defense is suspect and I think Nieman would have lit them up, but we saw what we saw with Bittner's throws and runs. The threat of him off tackle frees up alot of space for everyone!

adselder09 10-10-17 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ?????? (Post 6865430)
As much as Nieman deserves the job, and is a captain and leader of team. If, and big If, Nieman can't play, and Bittner repeats that performance from the Moe game, along with an Elder win, Bittner's job. Moe's defense is suspect and I think Nieman would have lit them up, but we saw what we saw with Bittner's throws and runs. The threat of him off tackle frees up alot of space for everyone!

This is all I was getting at and completely agree. Bittner should start Friday night if for no other reason than Nieman likely isn't 100% (I have no inside knowledge on this, just assuming since he didn't dress against Moe). He played great against Moeller, but everyone has been scoring on Moeller's defense. If Bittner lights up WW, then by all means stick with the hot hand and see where it goes. I just think everyone's going a little overboard with his performance in one game. It was an absolutely great game, don't get me wrong, don't want to take anything away from how he played. There just seems to be a lot of people putting their eggs in that basket and it's a lot of pressure for a kid that has been the backup/Wildcat QB for most of the last two seasons.

Descartes 10-10-17 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ?????? (Post 6865430)
As much as Nieman deserves the job, and is a captain and leader of team. If, and big If, Nieman can't play, and Bittner repeats that performance from the Moe game, along with an Elder win, Bittner's job. Moe's defense is suspect and I think Nieman would have lit them up, but we saw what we saw with Bittner's throws and runs. The threat of him off tackle frees up alot of space for everyone!

The thing that stuck out to me was how much zip Bittner had on those Sideline routes. And we can't forget how well he played v X. Nieman wouldn't lose the job as much as Bittner won it.

Visitation_Football 10-10-17 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adselder09 (Post 6865241)
Pump the brakes a bit. He played great against a horrid Moeller defense. He ran well and was able to move the ball against the X defense but he didn't throw it great against them. Yes he brings the dual threat ability and that's a big reason why he can have success but let's not get carried away over one week. I fully expect him to start against WW (remember he played the majority of the game against them last season) and I expect him to play well, but let's see how this week plays out before we bench the 2-year starter and captain of the team. Nieman was moving the offense out at X just as Bittner did after the injury. They both were able to lead field goal drives.

Starting to wonder if there's some sort of relation between you and the Bittner family. You've been saying Bittner should play since last season.

No relation and no ties to his family. Like you said I've been saying all along I thought Bittner was the most talented QB in the program. His threat to run makes everything more difficult on opposing defenses and he has the strongest arm. He just needed the reps to develop. Just one person's opinion.

trey2k 10-10-17 01:32 PM

This is a tough one for a prediction. Elder always does well with their backs against the wall. I can see it going either way.

E - 20
WW - 18

adselder09 10-10-17 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visitation_Football (Post 6865584)
No relation and no ties to his family. Like you said I've been saying all along I thought Bittner was the most talented QB in the program. His threat to run makes everything more difficult on opposing defenses and he has the strongest arm. He just needed the reps to develop. Just one person's opinion.

You're right in that his running ability just opens up everything else. But that was his first Varsity PT where he threw the ball as effectively as he did. Reasonable to wonder how much it was Moeller's defense, though I have zero doubt getting all the reps in practice through the week helped with timing and accuracy. I don't think it was a fluke but, we'll definitely know more after they play this tough WW defense.

trey2k 10-10-17 01:48 PM

If he's truly as good as he showed against Moeller, then there's some legit question marks with the coach's decision making. I don't think you can make that determination yet.

However, Bittner looks more the part. Stronger arm, better feet, faster, made good decisions, was accurate. It could be Moeller's D was poor. I'm really hoping this isn't a "the senior gets to start" approach. Time will tell.

adselder09 10-10-17 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trey2k (Post 6865619)
If he's truly as good as he showed against Moeller, then there's some legit question marks with the coach's decision making. I don't think you can make that determination yet.

However, Bittner looks more the part. Stronger arm, better feet, faster, made good decisions, was accurate. It could be Moeller's D was poor. I'm really hoping this isn't a "the senior gets to start" approach. Time will tell.

Ramsey has two instances recently once where he chose the Jr over the Sr (Miller over Hetzer) and once where he went with the returning Sr (Gramke) even though the Jr that came in towards the end of the year (Moore) played well and continued that into the following year.

Based on these two examples, it appears that he goes with the Sr, unless the Jr completely outplays the Sr. If they're even or one better by a slim margin, the Sr may still get the edge due to experience.

Descartes 10-10-17 04:27 PM

I understand the initial rational in starting Nieman, he was a returning starter with a better grasp on the Offense and less likely to make mistakes. However, if Bittner limits his mistakes, he needs to start.

?????? 10-10-17 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trey2k (Post 6865619)
If he's truly as good as he showed against Moeller, then there's some legit question marks with the coach's decision making. I don't think you can make that determination yet.

However, Bittner looks more the part. Stronger arm, better feet, faster, made good decisions, was accurate. It could be Moeller's D was poor. I'm really hoping this isn't a "the senior gets to start" approach. Time will tell.

"legit question marks with coaches decision" Really?
"the senior start approach" WTF?
If Bittner started week one and struggled you would have cried same old, legacy, golden Visi boy crud. Maybe he has just worked super hard, been coached up with laser focus, and is finally coming into his own, time will tell. Yur a chronic blamer. Always finding a negative

Descartes 10-10-17 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ?????? (Post 6865808)
"legit question marks with coaches decision" Really?
"the senior start approach" WTF?
If Bittner started week one and struggled you would have cried same old, legacy, golden Visi boy crud. Maybe he has just worked super hard, been coached up with laser focus, and is finally coming into his own, time will tell. Yur a chronic blamer. Always finding a negative

All true. I always thought Bittner should start, even going back to last year, but I understood why the staff went with Nieman. However, Bittner needs to continue to start to see if he's really matured into the star he has the ability to be.

superduper 10-10-17 08:10 PM

Game comes down to who plays more mentally sound, not getting penalties that cost their team, therefore I'm taking Elder

superduper 10-10-17 08:13 PM

I predict Don Magic reach-a-Ron will be crying in his beer by the end of the bight

superduper 10-10-17 08:20 PM

But all joking aside, I hope it's a good game and no one gets hurt....and much luck to WW after this game!

Descartes 10-10-17 09:14 PM

I'd like to know what Chatard did to keep the game so close. WW's Run game is even better than Eds and while I do believe the Eds game isn't representative of this team, it's still a major concern with the lack of speed on Defense. Missed tackles passed the LOS turn into TDs v WW.

Pantherontheporch 10-11-17 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Descartes (Post 6866015)
I'd like to know what Chatard did to keep the game so close. WW's Run game is even better than Eds and while I do believe the Eds game isn't representative of this team, it's still a major concern with the lack of speed on Defense. Missed tackles passed the LOS turn into TDs v WW.

From Channel 9's website:
"Miyan Williams turned Kenny Mayberry’s swing pass into a 20-yard touchdown run late in the fourth quarter and enabled Winton Woods to stay unbeaten with a 28-27 win at Bishop Chatard Friday night.
The Warriors (6-0) used big plays – including a kickoff return for a TD by Cornell Beachem - to overcome two blocked punts and penalties that made the final score much closer than it could have been.
Oddly, both halves ended with Winton Woods knocking on the door for touchdowns.
Coming off a blockbuster victory over La Salle, the Warriors jumped to a two-TD lead after one quarter. Markief White’s sack stopped a Chatard drive and forced the Trojans to kick a field goal that tied the score 3-3.
Beachem answered the field goal with an electrifying return, and Quinn Smith’s interception set up Winton Woods at the Chatard 25 for another Warriors’ TD on a Kenny Mayberry pass to Raequan Prince.
With the Warriors up 16-3, a blowout seemed to be brewing.
But two pass interference penalties kept a Chatard drive alive and the Trojans (3-4) capitalized with a TD pass from Mark Nondorf to Will Kellison to make it 16-10.
The first half ended with the Warriors on the BC 1-yard line. Both teams committed turnovers in the last minute of the half, and the Warriors tried a reverse with time running out. But Beachem was stopped just short of the goal line.
After Chatard kicked to start the second half, the home team made Winton Woods go three-and-out, then blocked a punt at the Warriors’ 26.
Chatard substitute tailback Tony Harrison, playing because the starter was out with mono, ran it in from 6 yards to give the Trojans their first lead, 17-16.
A bad snap led to another Winton Woods blocked punt and Chatard recovered it in the endzone for a TD, putting the Trojans ahead 24-16.
Mayberry’s second TD pass closed the gap to 24-22 (the two-point attempt failed). Chatard got a field goal, but Winton Woods dominated the rest of the way.
Williams’ TD put Winton Woods ahead 28-27 with seven minutes to go and the Warriors switched to the option. Mayberry faked handoffs to Williams and broke off two long runs, and the Warriors reached the Chatard 5 in the final minute and ran out the clock."

Jerry Maguire 10-11-17 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superduper (Post 6865948)
I predict Don Magic reach-a-Ron will be crying in his beer by the end of the bight

I hope you're right. Some of those clowns need to be brought back down to Earth. Including a bunch of their coaches who acted like absolute clowns when WW won last year.

WW is a very good team so it's going to be a tough task, but a win would make my weekend.

Descartes 10-11-17 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherontheporch (Post 6866112)
From Channel 9's website:
"Miyan Williams turned Kenny Mayberry’s swing pass into a 20-yard touchdown run late in the fourth quarter and enabled Winton Woods to stay unbeaten with a 28-27 win at Bishop Chatard Friday night.
The Warriors (6-0) used big plays – including a kickoff return for a TD by Cornell Beachem - to overcome two blocked punts and penalties that made the final score much closer than it could have been.
Oddly, both halves ended with Winton Woods knocking on the door for touchdowns.
Coming off a blockbuster victory over La Salle, the Warriors jumped to a two-TD lead after one quarter. Markief White’s sack stopped a Chatard drive and forced the Trojans to kick a field goal that tied the score 3-3.
Beachem answered the field goal with an electrifying return, and Quinn Smith’s interception set up Winton Woods at the Chatard 25 for another Warriors’ TD on a Kenny Mayberry pass to Raequan Prince.
With the Warriors up 16-3, a blowout seemed to be brewing.
But two pass interference penalties kept a Chatard drive alive and the Trojans (3-4) capitalized with a TD pass from Mark Nondorf to Will Kellison to make it 16-10.
The first half ended with the Warriors on the BC 1-yard line. Both teams committed turnovers in the last minute of the half, and the Warriors tried a reverse with time running out. But Beachem was stopped just short of the goal line.
After Chatard kicked to start the second half, the home team made Winton Woods go three-and-out, then blocked a punt at the Warriors’ 26.
Chatard substitute tailback Tony Harrison, playing because the starter was out with mono, ran it in from 6 yards to give the Trojans their first lead, 17-16.
A bad snap led to another Winton Woods blocked punt and Chatard recovered it in the endzone for a TD, putting the Trojans ahead 24-16.
Mayberry’s second TD pass closed the gap to 24-22 (the two-point attempt failed). Chatard got a field goal, but Winton Woods dominated the rest of the way.
Williams’ TD put Winton Woods ahead 28-27 with seven minutes to go and the Warriors switched to the option. Mayberry faked handoffs to Williams and broke off two long runs, and the Warriors reached the Chatard 5 in the final minute and ran out the clock."

Thanks. Familiar theme of WW self inflicting mistakes. Elder's going to have to play a clean game combined with WW's mental errors to win.


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