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Any pregame thoughts on upcoming season? Who looks good, best returning guys, incoming freshman, etc.
preeder61
11-21-09, 09:33 AM
There should be some great swims this season. Can Sandy Whitacker repeat, will Kelch's commitment to Michigan drive him, now that Huffman is gone are the 50/100 up for grabs?
anyone know where sandy is goin?
and michigan really took kelch?!
EagleFan
11-27-09, 11:00 AM
Can anyone top St. Xavier this season?
preeder61
11-27-09, 01:07 PM
and michigan really took kelch?!
yep, committed two weeks ago. They are apparently building their distance program again after the last few years of sprinters for Mike Bottom.
Can anyone top St. Xavier this season?
maybe st.charles, but it would be pretty difficult though.
ImpartialOutsider
11-28-09, 06:25 PM
Can anyone top St. Xavier this season?
No.
bhs warrior
11-30-09, 04:16 PM
No.
impartial we should get a good look at sc and st X this fri and sat
ImpartialOutsider
11-30-09, 08:24 PM
impartial we should get a good look at sc and st X this fri and sat
Then you will realize I'm right. St. X will win with a team of people you've never heard of, just like they do every year.
bhs warrior
11-30-09, 09:21 PM
Then you will realize I'm right. St. X will win with a team of people you've never heard of, just like they do every year.
Impartial, yes St.X will reload, but I think SC will be just as good as St. X
preeder61
11-30-09, 11:16 PM
Then you will realize I'm right. St. X will win with a team of people you've never heard of, just like they do every year.
This is clearly an impartial view from an outsiders perspective.
Are there really guys out there swimming for X that we have never heard of? Schwab did not have a stellar USA meet last weekend for the man who would be the sprint king. (22.4, 50.1)
RedShadow8
12-01-09, 10:00 AM
By my count, it should be an even meet when you look at it from this perspective. Both X and Charles return 7 point scorers from last year's state meet if Schuttinger is in fact not at Charles anymore. However on relays Charles returns 6 members and X only 3. Keep in mind that the state champ in both fly and back is on Charles (Sandy). No defending state champs for X.
Given X's uncanny ability to reload every season. They should bounce back well. But this is in no way a done deal in either team's favor.
ImPartial
12-01-09, 12:48 PM
This is clearly an impartial view from an outsiders perspective.
Are there really guys out there swimming for X that we have never heard of? Schwab did not have a stellar USA meet last weekend for the man who would be the sprint king. (22.4, 50.1)
I guess it depends on how closely you listen to USA/YMCA/JV meets throughout the year. For those that exclusively rate teams based on who is returning from last year's state meet, then yes, there are probably X guys they have never heard of.
As for Schwab's first swim of the season...for the most part, is it critically important? (btw, Schwab swims for Moeller, not X) Average performances at this time of year are not a great indicator of state meet expectations. The most interesting thing to do is look for surprising GOOD swims this time of year. Did you notice Lipari beat Schwab in the 50 at that meet? Also, Alex Miller swam a 1:44 200.
The problem with the StC/StX meet this week is that some club swimmers probably won't be there, so you will only get a partial view.
bhs warrior
12-01-09, 05:54 PM
I guess it depends on how closely you listen to USA/YMCA/JV meets throughout the year. For those that exclusively rate teams based on who is returning from last year's state meet, then yes, there are probably X guys they have never heard of.
As for Schwab's first swim of the season...for the most part, is it critically important? (btw, Schwab swims for Moeller, not X) Average performances at this time of year are not a great indicator of state meet expectations. The most interesting thing to do is look for surprising GOOD swims this time of year. Did you notice Lipari beat Schwab in the 50 at that meet? Also, Alex Miller swam a 1:44 200.
The problem with the StC/StX meet this week is that some club swimmers probably won't be there, so you will only get a partial view.
St X is bringing 30 swimmers to SC this weekend, As i have stated we will get a good look at SC and St X, It should set the stage for an outstanding State meet
swimfan
12-02-09, 08:18 AM
The problem with the StC/StX meet this week is that some club swimmers probably won't be there, so you will only get a partial view.
St X is bringing 30 swimmers to SC this weekend, As i have stated we will get a good look at SC and St X, It should set the stage for an outstanding State meet
Both are correct. Typically some of X's swimmers do not begin swimming the high school meets until the Big 8. In that sense the Big 8 may be a better measure of how close SC is to X. X does bring all the available top swimmers (although generally they do not bring freshman). That said, this is always a good meet, even when the score is one sided, there’s always some very good racing (Kocher, Louis & Miller in the 100 free in 08; Barbiere & Martin 100 free in ’07; Barbiere & Martin 200 free in ’06 ). And for the last 3 years, the winner of this meet has been the state champion. Of course, in recent years these have been the 2 best teams in the state. This year does not look to be any different.
preeder61
12-02-09, 09:25 AM
As for Schwab's first swim of the season...for the most part, is it critically important? (btw, Schwab swims for Moeller, not X) Average performances at this time of year are not a great indicator of state meet expectations. The most interesting thing to do is look for surprising GOOD swims this time of year. Did you notice Lipari beat Schwab in the 50 at that meet? Also, Alex Miller swam a 1:44 200.
Oops, I forgot that Schwab was not an X guy. I did take note of Miller's superfast 200 and Lipari's good 50 time. But you also had Rosler from D2 Columbus Academy doing spectacular times for this early.
It is just a crap shoot to learn anything from these early swims. There is no telling how much time these guys have spent training and how much dryland or technique work or other sports (water polo). I am just excited to start seeing HS results and which HS swim forum will take the lead.
swimfan
12-07-09, 08:49 AM
St X is bringing 30 swimmers to SC this weekend, As i have stated we will get a good look at SC and St X, It should set the stage for an outstanding State meet
Boy looking at the results, it doesn't look promising for SC to challenge StX this year. Complete meet results are on SC website at http://www.eteamz.com/scswim/files/SC-ST.XResults2009.pdf. It's not like SC swam poorly, but StX is talented at the top of their lineup and very deep...even by X standards. It's early but its tough to see anyone taking StX this year.
ImPartial
12-07-09, 10:43 AM
By my count, it should be an even meet when you look at it from this perspective. Both X and Charles return 7 point scorers from last year's state meet if Schuttinger is in fact not at Charles anymore. However on relays Charles returns 6 members and X only 3. Keep in mind that the state champ in both fly and back is on Charles (Sandy). No defending state champs for X.
Given X's uncanny ability to reload every season. They should bounce back well. But this is in no way a done deal in either team's favor.
Actual results: StX 111, StC 59...not exactly what I would call an even meet.
That is what happens when you only consider returning state qualifiers. Sure, Whitaker won both his events, but he can only score so many points by himself. It looks like StX had three of the top four times in every event including relays.
Are there really guys out there swimming for X that we have never heard of?
There were several guys I'm sure many have never heard of, here are a couple examples:
A medley: Wooley, Haas, Dennis (only 0.3s behind StC)
200 free: Tontillo beat state qualifiers Kocher and Swanson
200 IM: Dennis won, beating state qualifier Corey Taylor
50 free: Dennis and Bierman beat Schuh
100 fly: Rapp, Haas, Wooley go 2,3,4 after Whitaker
100 free: Gorsuch and Stenger beat Swanson
500 free: Montague and Hendricks under 5:00
200 relay 1:28.00 (that time would have qualified top-8 at state prelims last year)
100 back: Haas beats all-state Schuh
ImpartialOutsider
12-07-09, 07:42 PM
I would say there are plenty of low profile guys on St. X. We've all heard of Alex Miller and Sam Lipari, and some of the sharper people may know Sean Drake, Rob Lawley, Gabe Baumgartner and Cole Dennis. But Gabe Rapp? Mike Tontilo? Ryan Haas? Max Bierman? Matt Montague? St. Charles got blown away by a team primarily made up of nobodies, just like I said they would.
OhioSWIM002
12-08-09, 07:30 PM
recruiting
stxbomber999
12-08-09, 09:40 PM
recruiting
Really, is that the best you can come up with? Dont start saying pointless things just because youre jealous. Look at the time of some of those guys from when they were younger, many of them are not impressive at all. Its easy to understand based on their improvement from year to year that coaching has alot to do with it.
swim010
12-09-09, 09:00 AM
how does the 50 free look this year? what are the top times?
RedShadow8
12-09-09, 11:36 AM
Actual results: StX 111, StC 59...not exactly what I would call an even meet. That is what happens when you only consider returning state qualifiers. Sure, Whitaker won both his events, but he can only score so many points by himself. It looks like StX had three of the top four times in every event including relays.
I believe I did say X would reload, like they do every year. But in a December 5 duel meet? Who cares?
You can win high school duel meets/small invites with depth if you have a bunch of swimmers who can get you some 2nds, 3rds and a few studs who will win a few events. At state, 1:03 in the breaststroke doesn't score, as doesn't 54 in the 100 back. You need fast swimmers who will get top 8 performances. I was simply stating, from that perspective, it looks to be an even meet. Changing the meet format changes the game.
Not a very fast meet, but X did probably gain a lot of confidence afterwards.
crownfish3
12-09-09, 03:30 PM
You have to have something to taper from especially in sprints. St Charles is putting up times that do not taper well to states in some events or there is no depth this year A 1:03 in breastroke will not even get you out of central districts to states. Those swimming 1:03's hopefully taper to 1:00 or faster or stay home in individual events.
stxbomber999
12-09-09, 03:55 PM
I believe I did say X would reload, like they do every year. But in a December 5 duel meet? Who cares?
You can win high school duel meets/small invites with depth if you have a bunch of swimmers who can get you some 2nds, 3rds and a few studs who will win a few events. At state, 1:03 in the breaststroke doesn't score, as doesn't 54 in the 100 back. You need fast swimmers who will get top 8 performances. I was simply stating, from that perspective, it looks to be an even meet. Changing the meet format changes the game.
Not a very fast meet, but X did probably gain a lot of confidence afterwards.
How does it look to be an even meet? X won by a very large margin, that doesnt look to even to me. You are right when you say 1:03s and 54s wont score at state, but at least X has guys who are going those times. X had guys beat StC guys who they werent supposed to beat (Tontillo over Kocher in the 200, Haas over Schuh in back). Whitiker was the only SC guy to win an individual event. Also Xs medley relay was just off of SCs and that's without Lipari. You may need fast swimmers to win at the big meets, but if this meet shows us anything its that X has more fast swimmers than SC.
How does it look to be an even meet? X won by a very large margin, that doesnt look to even to me. You are right when you say 1:03s and 54s wont score at state, but at least X has guys who are going those times. X had guys beat StC guys who they werent supposed to beat (Tontillo over Kocher in the 200, Haas over Schuh in back). Whitiker was the only SC guy to win an individual event. Also Xs medley relay was just off of SCs and that's without Lipari. You may need fast swimmers to win at the big meets, but if this meet shows us anything its that X has more fast swimmers than SC.
i personally think its just x has more depth and swimmers. i would say with the guys coming back sc will be tough to beat in the medley and would have to be the favorite in the 400(just because of how many guys returning in this event from last year). you also have a couple top individual performers, while x only has two. i think the running for the title should be pretty close this year.
ImpartialOutsider
12-09-09, 07:56 PM
i personally think its just x has more depth and swimmers. i would say with the guys coming back sc will be tough to beat in the medley and would have to be the favorite in the 400(just because of how many guys returning in this event from last year). you also have a couple top individual performers, while x only has two. i think the running for the title should be pretty close this year.
How could you possibly interpret this as promising for St. Charles? They got blown away in just about every event. If they had lost a somewhat close meet to St. X, then you could make a case that they might be able to come back and win at state. But it wasn't even close. It wasn't even close to being close. The returning guys for St. Charles who you think so highly of (with the exception of Sandy Whitaker) lost to swimmers that nobody has heard of. St. X is a much faster team. If you are still optimistic when it comes to St. Charles' chances, then you must not have been watching the same meet as me.
stxbomber999
12-09-09, 10:01 PM
i personally think its just x has more depth and swimmers. i would say with the guys coming back sc will be tough to beat in the medley and would have to be the favorite in the 400(just because of how many guys returning in this event from last year). you also have a couple top individual performers, while x only has two. i think the running for the title should be pretty close this year.
Again, dominated the meet. In the medley relay X barely lost to SC and that was without Xs strongest swimmer in on the relay. How can you say SC is the favorite in the 400 when X beat them soundly. You said X only has two top individual performers, well SC only has one, so you cant use that arguement. And finally you are right X has alot of depth but they also have speed, if you look at the results you can see that out of all of the events, including relays, X finished lower than 4th in only one event (100 breast), which means that in all of those events Xs 3rd guy was better than SCs #2, you can't beat a team that is that much better than you.
ImPartial
12-11-09, 02:11 PM
how does the 50 free look this year? what are the top times?
This is what some guys swam yesterday:
21.57 Brandon Williams
21.58 Billy Ross
21.83 Kevin Schwab
21.84 Gus Bailey
21.86 Sandy Whitaker
21.94 Michael Cavenaugh
22.03 Nick Schuttinger
22.06 Ben Stewart-Bates
Apologies if I missed anyone.
bhs warrior
12-12-09, 10:54 PM
St.X reloaded and has great team depth, with that said Sc will take another shot at St. X at State. While ST.X had a good showing at SC. Is it better to be fastest in DEC or Feb. Hats off to ST. X They came in and kicked SC's but.
Enough About a duel meet in DEC.
preeder61
12-13-09, 08:34 AM
Mt. Vernon's Ian Richardson went 21.58 in a tri-meet yesterday. He was also under 22 in Athens last weekend without a cap.
Lipari looks to have stepped up at Jrs. 1:53.03 in the 200 IM, 58.86 breast. Billy Ross from New Albany was right on him with a 58.88. That should be a great race in February. Meisner 52.06 in back with Whitaker at 53.01. The 100 fly was wide open. Mesiner again 50.98, Schieman at 51.03, Schuttinger at 51.21, Gleason at 51.33, Wong 51.45 and Whitaker at 51.55.
http://www.star-meets.org/results/Juniors/SC09/
http://www.usaswimming.org/usasweb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=922&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=2681&ItemId=3162
Steven Zimmerman (Little Miami) has to be in the conversation in the 100 Back. 50.96 in prelims, 51.15 at finals, at Juniors. I talked to his coach. He wasn't rested. He did morning practices Monday and Tuesday in addition to a normal afternoon schedule and lifted and did dryland all week at normal rates. He only did about 4,000 on Thursday but that is their normal recovery day. He also went 1:50.8 in the 200.
stxbomber999
12-13-09, 11:14 AM
Steven Zimmerman (Little Miami) has to be in the conversation in the 100 Back. 50.96 in prelims, 51.15 at finals, at Juniors. I talked to his coach. He wasn't rested. He did morning practices Monday and Tuesday in addition to a normal afternoon schedule and lifted and did dryland all week at normal rates. He only did about 4,000 on Thursday but that is their normal recovery day. He also went 1:50.8 in the 200.
I believe Little Miami is a D2 school, but yes Steven may be the best backstroker in the state, and correct me if im wrong but think hes only a junior this year.
ohiocuse
12-13-09, 01:54 PM
little miami is a d1 school this year.
also one more name to throw into the 50 free talk, jacob schuster from dublin scioto went 21.65 to be outtouched by richardson from mt. vernon in the same 50 free yesterday when richardson went 21.58
Mt. Vernon's Ian Richardson went 21.58 in a tri-meet yesterday. He was also under 22 in Athens last weekend without a cap.
Lipari looks to have stepped up at Jrs. 1:53.03 in the 200 IM, 58.86 breast. Billy Ross from New Albany was right on him with a 58.88. That should be a great race in February. Meisner 52.06 in back with Whitaker at 53.01. The 100 fly was wide open. Mesiner again 50.98, Schieman at 51.03, Schuttinger at 51.21, Gleason at 51.33, Wong 51.45 and Whitaker at 51.55.
http://www.star-meets.org/results/Juniors/SC09/
http://www.usaswimming.org/usasweb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=922&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=2681&ItemId=3162
yea can probably guarantee that lipari rested for this meet. some other guys may have rested a bit this week. but, you dont go your fastest 200 im time without some rest. would you say he is the favorite this year for the im, and including schuttinger for the mix?
stxbomber999
12-13-09, 05:18 PM
yea can probably guarantee that lipari rested for this meet. some other guys may have rested a bit this week. but, you dont go your fastest 200 im time without some rest. would you say he is the favorite this year for the im, and including schuttinger for the mix?
Im sure Lipari was probably rested. He is deffinately up there for the top IMer. My question is Shuttinger really going to swim the IM? Fly is still his best event, and swimming the IM with only the 50 in between would only hurt his chances in fly.
St.XBomber999- as mentioned Little Miami was moved up to D1 this year.
How is Ian Wooley doing at St. X this year? He should be one of, if not the, top freshman this year.
preeder61
12-13-09, 10:13 PM
little miami is a d1 school this year.
also one more name to throw into the 50 free talk, jacob schuster from dublin scioto went 21.65 to be outtouched by richardson from mt. vernon in the same 50 free yesterday when richardson went 21.58
Is there an event that this kid is not good at. Schuster already went 1:45 in the 200 also. Lots of choices as the year progresses. Let's see his IM?
OhioSWIM002
12-13-09, 10:22 PM
Schieman 50.3 at Makos...
ohiocuse
12-14-09, 06:45 AM
yea we will see with schuster hes also been 48.08 in the 100 free and 52.0 in a dual in the fly
what do you think mr. reeder?
preeder61
12-14-09, 12:59 PM
yea we will see with schuster hes also been 48.08 in the 100 free and 52.0 in a dual in the fly
what do you think mr. reeder?
Just keep his focus out of the 50/100
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