State Meet Results

[stxbomber999]

So St.X has once again put themsleves on the top of the Ohio High School world, as expected based on the seed times. St. Charles comes in a very impressive second, and Moller finishes third, the highest finish in school history. So I want to know what you guys thought of the meet. Surprises, let downs, or any other thoughts.

For me the biggest surprises were Joe Albers double wins for Moe, he did a great job this weekend, and won probably the two most wide open races. Also Xs free relays were impressive. I thought X could win those going into the meet, but i never would have put them at a 1:23 in the 200.

so what do you guys think?

[ElksSWIM2010.2]

coming into this year centerville felt pretty good about how they thought they would do at state. boy were they wrong. sure they placed higher at state then they have in a while but the swimmers for the city of centerville were sure they could win state...a great miscalculation

and now they are even talking of placing higher next year...better check the math boys

[xbomberd08]

ElksSWIM did you make another screen name???

[Fly4Fun]

ElksSWIM did you make another screen name???


Doubt it, looks like someone just trying to start trouble.

[ElksSWIM2010]

no that would not be me lol

[stxbomber999]

no that would not be me lol

honestly, i would feel honored if someone tried to copy my name to start trouble

[Number1Spot77]

honestly, i would feel honored if someone tried to copy my name to start trouble

I agree. Although You have to admit centerville went into the year pretty cocky...and they didnt back up one thing they said!

[Paine]

I agree. Although You have to admit centerville went into the year pretty cocky...and they didnt back up one thing they said!

Yea they were expecting way more success than they actually got. It probably was not wise to wear "Beat X" shirts before they could beat Moeller or St Charles or Upper Arlington.

[ElksSWIM2010]

oh well, i hope we do better next year...

[xbomberd08]

It probably was not wise to wear "Beat X" shirts before they could beat Moeller or St Charles or Upper Arlington.

Did they really?! Wow, that reminds of the old public v. private crap that went on with them in the 2003-2004 swim season and even in the 2004-2005 season with them.

[xbomberd08]

no that would not be me lol

Well if he starts giving you username a bad rep, I'd PM Yappi and ask if you can get a patent on your username so you can get rid of your double ;)

[ElksSWIM2010]

alright thanks

[Wunderkind]

Centerville should of won state.
St. X got nothing on us!!!

[xbomberd08]

Centerville should of won state.
St. X got nothing on us!!!


yeahhhh

[ElksSWIM2010.2]

im not causing any trouble. im just spittin the truth

[stxbomber999]

Actually Centerville will most likely do better next year. With moe losing alot of guys and UA losing Huffman, it really opens the door for cville because they return alot of guys. Right now the top 3 for next year look like X SC and Cville

[xswimmer100]

i would have to say that the swimmers of the meet were schwab, sanders and krone. all 3 certainly did not live up to expectations for whatever reason. perhaps if they had better meets, their relays would have won and they would have placed higher in their individual meets. b/c of their poorer than expected performances, it allowed st x to capture the title (hence the main reason for me making them swimmers of the meet)

[thedutchman]

Actually Centerville will most likely do better next year. With moe losing alot of guys and UA losing Huffman, it really opens the door for cville because they return alot of guys. Right now the top 3 for next year look like X SC and Cville

You're right those are the top 3. However, based on the last 4 years, expect the meet to be a battle between X & SC. SC has become a smaller version of X. They are developing swimmers. Here are Whitaker's best times in the fly and back for the last 3 years:

Fly: 58.54 / 53.89 / 49.48
Back: 57.09 / 52.91 / 50.36

And his progression is not atypical for SC's underclassman. Check out the times on their website. They have the X system in place only with about half the number of swimmers on the team. That incredible depth allows both teams the luxury of placing multiple swimmers in various events. Other teams just don't have that kind of depth...Moeller, Cville and UA to name a few.

Like X SC has swimmers who have waited until their junior and senior year before they get an opportunity to swim on the sectional team. Some of those guys will show up at states next year. X does it every year. (Kevin Lous, Ed Knight, Sean Drake, Brett Schoenling, Patrick Kimutis) They'll do it again next year.

Year in and year out the state meet is dominated by upperclassmen. X and SC for the most part send only upperclassmen. Expect X or SC to win next year and the one that doesn't will be second.

[thedutchman]

i would have to say that the swimmers of the meet were schwab, sanders and krone. all 3 certainly did not live up to expectations for whatever reason. perhaps if they had better meets, their relays would have won and they would have placed higher in their individual meets. b/c of their poorer than expected performances, it allowed st x to capture the title (hence the main reason for me making them swimmers of the meet)

That's harsh and not true. Moeller swam well. They never really had a chance to win because of the number of swimmers. X scored in every event but fly. SC scored in every event except the 500 & diving. Moeller didn't score in diving, fly, 500 and back. That's too many events to be shut out in and expect to win the meet. Numbers is the key. For example, Albers won both the IM and Breast, yet X outscored Moeller in both 44 to 20 in the IM & 32 to 20 in the Breast. SC did the same thing 22 to 20 in the IM & 27 to 20 in the Breast. Its called depth. As long as teams like X & SC exist no one will win the state meet with just 6 swimmers. Realistically, the best they could expect was 3rd and that's where they finished.

[xbomberd08]

i would have to say that the swimmers of the meet were schwab, sanders and krone. all 3 certainly did not live up to expectations for whatever reason. perhaps if they had better meets, their relays would have won and they would have placed higher in their individual meets. b/c of their poorer than expected performances, it allowed st x to capture the title (hence the main reason for me making them swimmers of the meet)

If that's your case, I would give credit where it's due. Outside of relays, St. X largely won the meet with their performances in certain key events that those three moeller swimmers had nothing to do with. The only event those three swimmers had any opportunity to take points away from St. X was the 100 free, which in itself would not have been nearly enough to throw the meet to SC. In the relays Moeller again could have taken some points away from St. X, but do you really think if everything went their way that this would total up to more than the 57 points between first and second. The preperation St. X and St. Charles put in throughout the season put them in prime position for peak performance at the state meet, and minus several 'miracle' swims from the likes of Moeller, St. X earned their state title just as much as the 29 teams before them did.

[Wunderkind]

Do i smell national champs at CHS?

[xbomberd08]

Do i smell national champs at CHS?

Is that Centerville High School??

[Wunderkind]

yes.

[stxbomber999]

i would have to say that the swimmers of the meet were schwab, sanders and krone. all 3 certainly did not live up to expectations for whatever reason. perhaps if they had better meets, their relays would have won and they would have placed higher in their individual meets. b/c of their poorer than expected performances, it allowed st x to capture the title (hence the main reason for me making them swimmers of the meet)

Hey should i still be ashamed of myself for saying Will Lawley is capable of being faster than Sanders, and is X, dispite holding the trophy, still the 3rd best team?

Personally I dont see how 3 guys alone could take Xs title away. You need to remember that Moe can't take that many points away from X without taking points away from SC too.

[xswimmer100]

Hey should i still be ashamed of myself for saying Will Lawley is capable of being faster than Sanders, and is X, dispite holding the trophy, still the 3rd best team?

Personally I dont see how 3 guys alone could take Xs title away. You need to remember that Moe can't take that many points away from X without taking points away from SC too.

you still should be ashamed. if i were you, i would throw up everytime upon waking up and looking at myself in the mirror everyday. "dispite" should be correctly spelled as "despite"

[stxbomber999]

you still should be ashamed. if i were you, i would throw up everytime upon waking up and looking at myself in the mirror everyday. "dispite" should be correctly spelled as "despite"

Oh boy again, more spelling corrections, once again thank you for making worthless posts, i may make some spelling mistakes, i'm not perfect, but you know what i am, i'm right. However you were wrong, and I really want you to admit it.

However, since I know you like spelling mistakes so much ill give you something to post about: St.X wun, whch mens they are the bes tem, not the thyrd bes tem. Did you get that?

[Number1Spot77]

You still have to be impressed with moellers finish. With only about 5 guys, really swimming and placing they got third at state and scored over 200 points. I dont know about you but that is pretty damn impressive. Mass props to moeller for accomplishing that.

[Wunderkind]

Nah moellers no good vrs St. X or centerville!

[Paine]

You still have to be impressed with moellers finish. With only about 5 guys, really swimming and placing they got third at state and scored over 200 points. I dont know about you but that is pretty damn impressive. Mass props to moeller for accomplishing that.

I thought Moeller's point total was tremendous considering their total lack of depth. This was probably the best Moeller team in history, and there is no shame in third place behind the likes of SC and X. If they perform like they did at districts, and Schwab is on the 400 free relay, they would have scored even more. Krone was a big dissapointment for Moe though. He just never seemed to get going, and in his 200 free final, he dropped to 8th with a significant time add.

[xbomberd08]

you still should be ashamed. if i were you, i would throw up everytime upon waking up and looking at myself in the mirror everyday. "dispite" should be correctly spelled as "despite"

I can only imagine what you must feel like waking up every morning.

[xswimmer100]

I can only imagine what you must feel like waking up every morning.

i feel great every morning - like a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. how about you smartypants?

[stxbomber999]

i feel great every morning - like a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. how about you smartypants?

You know i'm curious, what did you think of the meet, outside of moeller? Were you impressed by Xs relays? Whitaker's or Huffman's double wins? Or any times from someone? We know you think Krone Schwab and Sanders were the best swimmers, even though they were all out scored by Albers, Huffman, Whitaker, Willets, Schnur, Columbus, Miller, Schwartz, Lawley, and Lipari(Sanders did beat Lipari by a point) and there may have been others, they were just the ones i could remember off the top of my head.

Don't think i'm trying to bash moeller, what they did was amazing. Thier third place was probably more impressive than Xs win. I just think you need to give credit were credit is due.

[xswim09]

Don't think i'm trying to bash moeller, what they did was amazing. Thier third place was probably more impressive than Xs win. I just think you need to give credit were credit is due.


I just wanted to correct your spelling mistake before someone else does....it's their and where... just so someone doesn't make fun of you...

but i love your point that you made!

[stxbomber999]

I just wanted to correct your spelling mistake before someone else does....it's their and where... just so someone doesn't make fun of you...

but i love your point that you made!

Thanks for the corrections, but is spelling really that important on a message board? Im just typing and not really checking for spelling for grammar mistakes, spelling isnt important as long as my point can still be understood.

[Amazin']

Hey should i still be ashamed of myself for saying Will Lawley is capable of being faster than Sanders, and is X, dispite holding the trophy, still the 3rd best team?

Personally I dont see how 3 guys alone could take Xs title away. You need to remember that Moe can't take that many points away from X without taking points away from SC too.

would you like to compare times between the 2? Knowing David, you need to put the asterisk next to Sanders' name, he was not shaved at districts or fully rested. (tapor timing was off for state)

both are incredible talents, and That marlin relay is looking solid with the both of them

[stxbomber999]

would you like to compare times between the 2? Knowing David, you need to put the asterisk next to Sanders' name, he was not shaved at districts or fully rested. (tapor timing was off for state)

both are incredible talents, and That marlin relay is looking solid with the both of them

The fact that his timing for taper was off means he was fully rested at disrticts. He wasnt supposed to be, but he still was his peak at districts, which is not necesarily his fault. Why does there need to be an asterisk? The fact is he added time, and Will Lawley proved is capable of beating him. If you must put in the asterisk, then I would say you need one by Will too because Canton is a much slower pool than Miami.

The only reason why i bring this up is becuase after districts i said X could win the free relays at state, but some people said Moe was too good and Sanders was too fast. So replied that i believed Lalwey was capable of being just as fast or faster than him. I was told by certain poster i should be ashamed of myself for these claims, and i just want to know what he has to say after Lawley swam amazingly at State.

[Number1Spot77]

Play Nice, Boys OR ELSE
MODERATOR'S NOTE: I have received a number of complaints about various posters in this forum. However, I am never active in this forum, as I have no ties to boys swimming (last swam competitively about 25 years ago). That said, I do NOT have time to babysit this forum.

Let's put it plain and simple - if I continue to have problems w/certain problems taking potshots at each other, pissing matches, name-calling, etc., those posters WILL BE MODERATED.

Consider this a first and FINAL warning. There will be no further warnings - I will moderate you w/o notice nor explanation. That goes for EVERYONE on here. If you retaliate against someone else, consider yourself fair game for moderation, as well.

polar_purple
Global Moderator

Who else finds this hilarious?! hahaha

[stxbomber999]

Who else finds this hilarious?! hahaha

Oh i totally agree, i think this is hilarious. Its great how we are so terrible to one another that a moderator had to threaten us. Great jobs guys it has been a great pleasure to be a part of this will all of you. We are terrible people.(haha) Keep up the good work gentlemen.

[polar_purple]

:wallbang: The life of a mod is so fun.

Problem 1: We don't have an active moderator in here like in other forums.

Problem 2: It's apparent people don't appreciate it, because I get complaints about it - this time from multiple people over the last couple of days.

For the most part, I don't really moderate until people start complaining - I let things go as long as possible. So when someone does complain, I need to start taking action - esp. when there's not much more than a pissing match going on.

I'm simply asking you guys that, if you really want to moan and complain about each other, or call each other names - do it in private messages. Leave it off the board so others can have reasonable conversations. There are those that really find some of this stuff to be very juvenile and it's annoying to weed through it to have a constructive discussion.

If you guys self-moderate - I won't ever be touching this forum.

[echo13]

Thanks for the corrections, but is spelling really that important on a message board? Im just typing and not really checking for spelling for grammar mistakes, spelling isnt important as long as my point can still be understood.

I can never seem to understand it regardless.:)

But seriously, some very impressive swims. Two guys under 45 in the 100, haven't seen that in a while. St.X's 200 free relay and St.C/Akron's medley relay's were very impressive.

[Paine]

:wallbang: The life of a mod is so fun.

Problem 1: We don't have an active moderator in here like in other forums.

Problem 2: It's apparent people don't appreciate it, because I get complaints about it - this time from multiple people over the last couple of days.

For the most part, I don't really moderate until people start complaining - I let things go as long as possible. So when someone does complain, I need to start taking action - esp. when there's not much more than a pissing match going on.

I'm simply asking you guys that, if you really want to moan and complain about each other, or call each other names - do it in private messages. Leave it off the board so others can have reasonable conversations. There are those that really find some of this stuff to be very juvenile and it's annoying to weed through it to have a constructive discussion.

If you guys self-moderate - I won't ever be touching this forum.

This forum is nothing compared to some of the others on yappi. Check out the debate forum for real combat.

So, does this mean I can pretty much say anything I want (within limits I know) in private messages? Open season, baby.

[Uncoordinated]

Is anybody else as impressed with centerville as I am?
I think looking at who they return for next year, they have a very, VERY good chance at a state title. SC and STX should be getting scared, because when centerville figures out how to get that whole performing well at states IN ADDITION TO districts thing down, (and anybody expecting them to make the same mistakes twice is, in my opinion, wrong. They are a young team and will learn from their mistakes) The centerville elks will be an UNSTOPPABLE force.

[crusader007]

Is anybody else as impressed with centerville as I am?
I think looking at who they return for next year, they have a very, VERY good chance at a state title. SC and STX should be getting scared, because when centerville figures out how to get that whole performing well at states IN ADDITION TO districts thing down, (and anybody expecting them to make the same mistakes twice is, in my opinion, wrong. They are a young team and will learn from their mistakes) The centerville elks will be an UNSTOPPABLE force.

Really? An UNSTOPPABLE force? That is a pretty strong phrase. If you looked into it more you will see that SC has better swimmers returning.

- Whitaker - Double state champ in 100 fly and back
- Schuttinger - Runner up 100 fly and top 8 100 free
- Schuh - Top 8 100 back and big part of the 200 Med Relay
- Kocher - Two top 8 finished in 100 and 200 Free

They have so many returning that scored at state this year...I'd be watching out for them not for CVille sorry.

[Amazin']

Is anybody else as impressed with centerville as I am?
I think looking at who they return for next year, they have a very, VERY good chance at a state title. SC and STX should be getting scared, because when centerville figures out how to get that whole performing well at states IN ADDITION TO districts thing down, (and anybody expecting them to make the same mistakes twice is, in my opinion, wrong. They are a young team and will learn from their mistakes) The centerville elks will be an UNSTOPPABLE force.

Didn't Centerville thing they were UNSTOPPABLE this year??
1. didn't they have to have a diving error to get the 2nd place trophy?
2. where were they at state?
3. when have they ever had a better meet at state than districts?

Oh. and St. Charles will be heavily favored over Centerville with the above post. "Unstoppable force". i think not. sorry

[Uncoordinated]

Didn't Centerville thing they were UNSTOPPABLE this year??
1. didn't they have to have a diving error to get the 2nd place trophy?
2. where were they at state?
3. when have they ever had a better meet at state than districts?

Oh. and St. Charles will be heavily favored over Centerville with the above post. "Unstoppable force". i think not. sorry

Okay. Just because Centerville choked this year, doesn't mean they'll choke next year. As I said, they are a young team and will learn from their mistakes. Expect a greater focus on the state meet next year and less trash talk about how good they'll be. They'll show it through their actions.

Sure, SC has an awesome top 3 but a quick look at the two teams reveals that Centerville is much deeper. Plus, look at the top guys

Whittaker- Favored to win 100 back, 100 fly
Shuttinger- Favored for second in 100 fly, top 8 in 100 free
Kocker- Favored for top 8 in 100 free and 200 free

Perkins- Favored for 2nd in 2 and 5
Shieman- favored for top 4 in 100 fly(Not far behind shut or whit)
and top 8 in 100 breast
Litvinov- top 8 in 100 breast and 200 im

Cville isn't that far behind. They'll just help demonstrate that, yeah, speed is important, but it needs to be backed up by depth to win a state championship. Cville is next years team.

[thedutchman]

Okay. Just because Centerville choked this year, doesn't mean they'll choke next year. As I said, they are a young team and will learn from their mistakes. Expect a greater focus on the state meet next year and less trash talk about how good they'll be. They'll show it through their actions.

Sure, SC has an awesome top 3 but a quick look at the two teams reveals that Centerville is much deeper. Plus, look at the top guys

Whittaker- Favored to win 100 back, 100 fly
Shuttinger- Favored for second in 100 fly, top 8 in 100 free
Kocker- Favored for top 8 in 100 free and 200 free

Perkins- Favored for 2nd in 2 and 5
Shieman- favored for top 4 in 100 fly(Not far behind shut or whit)
and top 8 in 100 breast
Litvinov- top 8 in 100 breast and 200 im

Cville isn't that far behind. They'll just help demonstrate that, yeah, speed is important, but it needs to be backed up by depth to win a state championship. Cville is next years team.

Your leaving out X. Don't get me wrong, Centerville will be good...but in this instance good will get them 3rd. And when it comes to depth, no one is deeper than X and SC. Next year's meet will be another great competition like in 08...between X and SC.

[stxbomber999]

Okay. Just because Centerville choked this year, doesn't mean they'll choke next year. As I said, they are a young team and will learn from their mistakes. Expect a greater focus on the state meet next year and less trash talk about how good they'll be. They'll show it through their actions.

Sure, SC has an awesome top 3 but a quick look at the two teams reveals that Centerville is much deeper. Plus, look at the top guys

Whittaker- Favored to win 100 back, 100 fly
Shuttinger- Favored for second in 100 fly, top 8 in 100 free
Kocker- Favored for top 8 in 100 free and 200 free

Perkins- Favored for 2nd in 2 and 5
Shieman- favored for top 4 in 100 fly(Not far behind shut or whit)
and top 8 in 100 breast
Litvinov- top 8 in 100 breast and 200 im

Cville isn't that far behind. They'll just help demonstrate that, yeah, speed is important, but it needs to be backed up by depth to win a state championship. Cville is next years team.

What about Xs guys?

Miller- Favored in the 200 and 500
Lipari- Favored to win the IM, 2nd in Breast
Baumgartner- 2nd in IM, top 8 in Breast
Drake- 4th IM
R. Lawley- Top 8 500

also X has the most guys left in reserve behind their studs that can make a big difference. So say Cville is next years team is getting a little ahead of your self.

Also you say there will be less talk of how good cville will be, but the season hasnt been over for a week and your already saying theyll be the best next year.

[xbomberd08]

Is anybody else as impressed with centerville as I am?
I think looking at who they return for next year, they have a very, VERY good chance at a state title. SC and STX should be getting scared, because when centerville figures out how to get that whole performing well at states IN ADDITION TO districts thing down, (and anybody expecting them to make the same mistakes twice is, in my opinion, wrong. They are a young team and will learn from their mistakes) The centerville elks will be an UNSTOPPABLE force.

I don't want people to think I'm taking any shots at Moeller, bu over the last few years they've been known to perform exceptionally well at Districts only to fall behind the curve when it comes to State. I'm not saying as a team that they don't throw down some nice swims, but they haven't done it with the consistency that teams like St. X, St. Charles, and University have. That said, you can't act like performing well at Districts but not at State is a going to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for Centerville, it actually tends to be more of a trend than anything else.

[Uncoordinated]

I don't want people to think I'm taking any shots at Moeller, bu over the last few years they've been known to perform exceptionally well at Districts only to fall behind the curve when it comes to State. I'm not saying as a team that they don't throw down some nice swims, but they haven't done it with the consistency that teams like St. X, St. Charles, and University have. That said, you can't act like performing well at Districts but not at State is a going to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for Centerville, it actually tends to be more of a trend than anything else.

They were a young team this year though. I want to bring up two key points.

1.) They had the audacity to believe that they could beat a team like Saint Xavier this year. With an improved team next year, they're sure to believe in themselves, and believing you can do something is half of the battle, especially when you have the talent to potentially back it up.

2.) This year, sure, Centerville choked at state. I see no reason why this should happen next year. While they originally were shooting for a chance at beating X, their goals later fell on a district runner up finish. Regardless of the controversial diver scorer, they were able to perform well at the meet they set their sights on. Because they were focused on districts, they underperformed at state. Its kind of like pro football- the team that was focused on making the super bowl often gets beat by the team that was focused on winning the super bowl.
Anyway, with their talent next year, centerville will be focused on a good performance at the state championship and will therefore perform well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying X and SC are not capable of beating centerville either. Maybe SC will win big 8s. And maybe x will get the southwest district classic and possibly districts. But Centerville will be right up there with them at state.

[Number1Spot77]

They were a young team this year though. I want to bring up two key points.

1.) They had the audacity to believe that they could beat a team like Saint Xavier this year. With an improved team next year, they're sure to believe in themselves, and believing you can do something is half of the battle, especially when you have the talent to potentially back it up.

2.) This year, sure, Centerville choked at state. I see no reason why this should happen next year. While they originally were shooting for a chance at beating X, their goals later fell on a district runner up finish. Regardless of the controversial diver scorer, they were able to perform well at the meet they set their sights on. Because they were focused on districts, they underperformed at state. Its kind of like pro football- the team that was focused on making the super bowl often gets beat by the team that was focused on winning the super bowl.
Anyway, with their talent next year, centerville will be focused on a good performance at the state championship and will therefore perform well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying X and SC are not capable of beating centerville either. Maybe SC will win big 8s. And maybe x will get the southwest district classic and possibly districts. But Centerville will be right up there with them at state.


This is funny.. How do you not know if they are going to choke next year?! ha they always choke...they must enjoy it...

[Hurricane Ike]

Centerville and St. X will be good teams next year. Both will have several solid swimmers but St Charles will be the best team in the state. This is because of their relays. No other team can match up with St Charles relays, and we learned this year that individual wins are not neccessary for an easy win as long as the team gets strong performances from the relays.

In the 400 free relay, St Charles returns every single swimmer from their 4th place state finish. The third place Moeller team loses every person and does not have the depth to reload. Upper Arlington loses Huffman and Dickaut, and Huffman is irreplaceable. St. X only returns Miller. The 200 free relay is similar. St Charles again was fourth and returns two swimmers who also had the fastest splits. Mark Stechschulte will fill in nicely. Moeller loses everyone but Schwab. Oak Hills loses their heart and soul in Rhodenbaugh and Shnur. X once again only returns one swimmer (Lipari). Finally, SC has a very good chance of retaining its number one ranking in the medley relay. SC returns Schuh and Shuttinger, and has Corey Taylor waiting in the wings for the breaststroke leg. A freestyler will inevtably emerge because St. Charles makes sprinters. Furthermore, St. X loses 3 of its swimmers, while UA and Moeller lose two. Firestone has a legitimate shot, though, at taking down SC, but this switch would not be that damaging in the long run because Firestone will be more like next year's version of Moeller, and not a state contender.

SC will win state through its dominant relays, and consistent, steady scoring from individual events. Centerville will have no chance against the Cardinals. Their relays were already unimpressive at the state meet, and they lose significant contributors to all of them. Centerville will have good individual places but their relays will be their undoing.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Did you forget to mention that Centervilles 2free relay does not graduate any swimmer...schieman-gregory-clark-perkins...all have been 21 this year and one is a freshman...

the medley brings back litvinov who had a poor post-season in breastroke adding from his mako times and schieman...
they did not stack their medley and
next year perkins will be swimming free(21.4) and sam mitchell at backstroke who is just as fast as gammell this year who graduates and controversially has a better 50

[Fly4Fun]

For those who are saying to expect Cville to have a better state meet next year and underperforming this year was an oddity, not the norm... that should be reconsidered. It is actually very hard for a team to improve from Districts to State and very few teams do it with almost every swimmer. What St. Xavier and St. Charles (recently) have been able to do is nothing short of amazing with getting their swimmers to step up or hold their line (and often holding your District time will move up a swimmer in the standings). I'll believe a team can do it onec they prove they can... until then expect a lot of doubeters. A prime example of a team not able to translate District success to State success would have been UA in 2003 (or maybe it was 2004 or 05) when I think in the projected points they came in favored over St. X.

Being able to perform as good as or better than Districts at the State meet is nothing to take for granted as an individual let alone as a whole team.

[Amazin']

Did you forget to mention that Centervilles 2free relay does not graduate any swimmer...schieman-gregory-clark-perkins...all have been 21 this year and one is a freshman...

the medley brings back litvinov who had a poor post-season in breastroke adding from his mako times and schieman...
they did not stack their medley and
next year perkins will be swimming free(21.4) and sam mitchell at backstroke who is just as fast as gammell this year who graduates and controversially has a better 50

doesn't this kinda remind you all of the Moeller Team this season?? having the following season with a ton of potential.

[Hurricane Ike]

Did you forget to mention that Centervilles 2free relay does not graduate any swimmer...schieman-gregory-clark-perkins...all have been 21 this year and one is a freshman...

the medley brings back litvinov who had a poor post-season in breastroke adding from his mako times and schieman...
they did not stack their medley and
next year perkins will be swimming free(21.4) and sam mitchell at backstroke who is just as fast as gammell this year who graduates and controversially has a better 50

My failure to mention Centerville in the 200 free relay was an oversight. However, the relay they return is simply not good enough to win at the highest level. The adjustments to the other two relays only maintains the status quo. The same relay placed fifth, 2 seconds behind fourth. The splits were very respectable but many teams are capable of unearthing those splits, including X. The medley you describe will be better only in the freestyle leg, but it will be to the detriment of the 400 free relay, since I assume Perkins will remain on the 200 free relay. SC's success in the medley may turn out to be somewhat circumstantial, as it will depend on who they put in it. SC just needs a 50 freestyler to emerge and Mark Stechshulte seems to be the man to do it. Once he starts to improve, either he or Shuttinger can take the medley free leg, and the other can do the 200 free relay. Whitaker, Schuh, and Taylor are examples of swimmers who had a little talent and got trained to become state contenders, so there's no reason Stechschulte can't do it either.

[Uncoordinated]

Centerville and St. X will be good teams next year. Both will have several solid swimmers but St Charles will be the best team in the state. This is because of their relays. No other team can match up with St Charles relays, and we learned this year that individual wins are not neccessary for an easy win as long as the team gets strong performances from the relays.

In the 400 free relay, St Charles returns every single swimmer from their 4th place state finish. The third place Moeller team loses every person and does not have the depth to reload. Upper Arlington loses Huffman and Dickaut, and Huffman is irreplaceable. St. X only returns Miller. The 200 free relay is similar. St Charles again was fourth and returns two swimmers who also had the fastest splits. Mark Stechschulte will fill in nicely. Moeller loses everyone but Schwab. Oak Hills loses their heart and soul in Rhodenbaugh and Shnur. X once again only returns one swimmer (Lipari). Finally, SC has a very good chance of retaining its number one ranking in the medley relay. SC returns Schuh and Shuttinger, and has Corey Taylor waiting in the wings for the breaststroke leg. A freestyler will inevtably emerge because St. Charles makes sprinters. Furthermore, St. X loses 3 of its swimmers, while UA and Moeller lose two. Firestone has a legitimate shot, though, at taking down SC, but this switch would not be that damaging in the long run because Firestone will be more like next year's version of Moeller, and not a state contender.

SC will win state through its dominant relays, and consistent, steady scoring from individual events. Centerville will have no chance against the Cardinals. Their relays were already unimpressive at the state meet, and they lose significant contributors to all of them. Centerville will have good individual places but their relays will be their undoing.

I don't know how you can say "we learned this year that individual wins are not neccessary for an easy win as long as the team gets strong performances from the relays." X could have dq'd the 4 free relay and still won the meet. They had that many more points, not becuase of relay dominance, but because of depth. SC got 1st in the medley and i believe 4th in the 2 free. X got 1st in 2 free and third in the medley. That's a two point difference in those two. And X didn't even have to swim the 4 free.

So basically, a state title comes down to two things: Speed and depth. I agree, SC undoubtedly has more speed, but out of the top three teams, Centerville and X have more depth. Speed won't be enough for SC. They might win three relays, but i doubt they'll win the meet.

[thedutchman]

So basically, a state title comes down to two things: Speed and depth. I agree, SC undoubtedly has more speed, but out of the top three teams, Centerville and X have more depth. Speed won't be enough for SC. They might win three relays, but i doubt they'll win the meet.

Where is this depth that Centerville has that SC doesn't? It sure doesn't show in the state meet. Looking at the returning individual points SC, X, & Centerville each have 9 scoring opportunities for next year. In individual points from this year's meet it breaks down like this:

SC:110 returning points; X: 79 returning points; Cville: 66 returning points

Assuming the returnees hold their places next year the individual points are as follows:

SC 142; X 143; & Cville 107

So I repeat what I said earlier, Centerville will be very good but they'll be swimming for 3rd. Next year's meet will be between X & SC. And that doesn't even consider the relays which will be in SC's favor over X & Cville.

[stxbomber999]

Just to remind everyone nothing is certain until state acutally comes around. This year moeller was the favorite to win 2 relays and they got 3rd in them both. Also remember 2005, UA was seeded to win by 80 points and they won all 3 relays but X still won the state title. Relays really are not that important. As long as you can put three in the top 4 or 5, even if a tean wins them all one solid individual swim takes care of the difference.

[Hurricane Ike]

Where is this depth that Centerville has that SC doesn't? It sure doesn't show in the state meet. Looking at the returning individual points SC, X, & Centerville each have 9 scoring opportunities for next year. In individual points from this year's meet it breaks down like this:

SC:110 returning points; X: 79 returning points; Cville: 66 returning points

Assuming the returnees hold their places next year the individual points are as follows:

SC 142; X 143; & Cville 107

So I repeat what I said earlier, Centerville will be very good but they'll be swimming for 3rd. Next year's meet will be between X & SC. And that doesn't even consider the relays which will be in SC's favor over X & Cville.

Of course relays are not the only factors that determine the winner of the State Meet. There are 11 events and diving. Next year will come down to the relays though as shown by dutchman. It is much easier to make up 30 points through relays than individuals. As I stated above, SC's relays will be much stronger than Centerville's. Thus, SC will beat out Centerville for the state title. Centerville will be a tremendously improved team but they will not be able to match the fire power of the Cardinals in the relays.

Xbomber999, you said that "relays are really not that important." How can you say this when the scores are doubled for relays. Individual swims do matter, but it's a lot tougher to come up with four fast swimmers than just one. Relays measure depth and since SC has the best relays, they also have the BEST depth. Not neccessarily the most, but the best. Eric Huffman and UA showed us this year that one individual swimmer can not lead a team to the championship, and he had 2 great swims. Uncoordinated is right in that depth and speed win meets. SC has the best speed, and has more of the speed than anyone else, which gives them the greatest depth.

[stxbomber999]

Of course relays are not the only factors that determine the winner of the State Meet. There are 11 events and diving. Next year will come down to the relays though as shown by dutchman. It is much easier to make up 30 points through relays than individuals. As I stated above, SC's relays will be much stronger than Centerville's. Thus, SC will beat out Centerville for the state title. Centerville will be a tremendously improved team but they will not be able to match the fire power of the Cardinals in the relays.

Xbomber999, you said that "relays are really not that important." How can you say this when the scores are doubled for relays. Individual swims do matter, but it's a lot tougher to come up with four fast swimmers than just one. Relays measure depth and since SC has the best relays, they also have the BEST depth. Not neccessarily the most, but the best. Eric Huffman and UA showed us this year that one individual swimmer can not lead a team to the championship, and he had 2 great swims. Uncoordinated is right in that depth and speed win meets. SC has the best speed, and has more of the speed than anyone else, which gives them the greatest depth.

You didnt read the rest of my last post. When i said relays are not that important, I was referring to the top few teams like X, SC and Cville. I said as long as you can put 3 relays in the top 4 then one solid individual came make up the difference. Sure there important if your comparing youself to a team that doesnt have relays score, but even if SC wins all 3 relays that wont be enough for them to win the meet, because X will put all of their relays in the top 3 as well. ONce again look at 2005. UA 1st,1st,1st, in the relays, X 2nd, 6th, 2nd, in the relays, and that UA team had plenty of speed and depth, but X stiil won.

Also relays do not really measure depth that well. It only takes 6 swimmers to make up 3 relays, and there is no way a team can win the state title with only six swimmers, need proof look at moeller this year, they had several great swimmers, but not enough to be a contender.

I dont know how you can make the claim that SC has more speed than anyone else. Xs top guys are seeded to do just as well or better than SCs at state next year. Its a little too early to making that claim.

[Hurricane Ike]

You didnt read the rest of my last post. When i said relays are not that important, I was referring to the top few teams like X, SC and Cville. I said as long as you can put 3 relays in the top 4 then one solid individual came make up the difference. Sure there important if your comparing youself to a team that doesnt have relays score, but even if SC wins all 3 relays that wont be enough for them to win the meet, because X will put all of their relays in the top 3 as well. ONce again look at 2005. UA 1st,1st,1st, in the relays, X 2nd, 6th, 2nd, in the relays, and that UA team had plenty of speed and depth, but X stiil won.

Also relays do not really measure depth that well. It only takes 6 swimmers to make up 3 relays, and there is no way a team can win the state title with only six swimmers, need proof look at moeller this year, they had several great swimmers, but not enough to be a contender.

I dont know how you can make the claim that SC has more speed than anyone else. Xs top guys are seeded to do just as well or better than SCs at state next year. Its a little too early to making that claim.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I just don't see X being a legitimate threat to win state. They will contend and be a deciding factor, but in the end it will be either SC or Cville, mainly because of relays. I don't know what projected relays you are going on but I do not see X in the top 3 for relays in either the 200 medley relay or 200 free relay. They graduate 3 on the medley, and they don't have a chance against SC or Firestone and it will probably be slower than Centerville's too. The 200 free relay is even more troublesome. X graduates 3 extremely fast swimmers with no one clearly waiting in the wings. I see Lipari and Miller but then what--Jim Brower?

I base SC's speed on facts. They have the best pure speed in the state. X only has Lipari and Miller. No one else can deliver in the clutch like SC. X will have a good taper at state, despite the opposite trend for most of the state, but not nearly as good as SC's.

Relays do measure depth. 6 good swimmers could be enough to win state if it was a diverse group of specialties. Moeller couldn't win state because all but one of its core members was basically a sprint freestyler. They were trying to win the state title in 2 events and relays, and they put up a damned impressive fight. SC has more quality swimmers in a wider variety of events. Their dominance will be obvious next season.

[Uncoordinated]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I just don't see X being a legitimate threat to win state. They will contend and be a deciding factor, but in the end it will be either SC or Cville, mainly because of relays. I don't know what projected relays you are going on but I do not see X in the top 3 for relays in either the 200 medley relay or 200 free relay. They graduate 3 on the medley, and they don't have a chance against SC or Firestone and it will probably be slower than Centerville's too. The 200 free relay is even more troublesome. X graduates 3 extremely fast swimmers with no one clearly waiting in the wings. I see Lipari and Miller but then what--Jim Brower?

I base SC's speed on facts. They have the best pure speed in the state. X only has Lipari and Miller. No one else can deliver in the clutch like SC. X will have a good taper at state, despite the opposite trend for most of the state, but not nearly as good as SC's.

Relays do measure depth. 6 good swimmers could be enough to win state if it was a diverse group of specialties. Moeller couldn't win state because all but one of its core members was basically a sprint freestyler. They were trying to win the state title in 2 events and relays, and they put up a damned impressive fight. SC has more quality swimmers in a wider variety of events. Their dominance will be obvious next season.

I'm going to have to somewhat agree with Ike. While I don't see them as future state champions, SC is has the most speed in the state.

Look at SCs top three swimmers.
Whittaker- 48.8 in the 100 fly at senior meet this weekend. Fastest kid in backstroke as well. Can do free pretty fast too. He will be crazy fast on the relays.

Shuttinger- great free and fly. He'll be really fast in relays.

Kocher- one of the fastest returning 100 frees in the state.

I don't see any other team with that much talent for relays. SC looks to be the favorite in those. They don't really matter though. There are 8 individual events. 3 relays. With double points that means the two compare 8 for individual, 6 for relays. Centerville and X will make up for the relays in the rest.

[Hurricane Ike]

I'm going to have to somewhat agree with Ike. While I don't see them as future state champions, SC is has the most speed in the state.

Look at SCs top three swimmers.
Whittaker- 48.8 in the 100 fly at senior meet this weekend. Fastest kid in backstroke as well. Can do free pretty fast too. He will be crazy fast on the relays.

Shuttinger- great free and fly. He'll be really fast in relays.

Kocher- one of the fastest returning 100 frees in the state.

I don't see any other team with that much talent for relays. SC looks to be the favorite in those. They don't really matter though. There are 8 individual events. 3 relays. With double points that means the two compare 8 for individual, 6 for relays. Centerville and X will make up for the relays in the rest.

I do not understand why people do not realize the huge impact of relays. If they are so irrelevant, why dont teams just swim their B guys and rest their best swimmer for their individual events. Centerville and SC are so similar in their individual point scorers, that they will all wash out leaving the relays to determine the state champion.

Frankly, I do not see how X will contend. They have lots of solid swimmer depth, but not as much state caliber depth as CVille or SC. They will easily win their districts but I dont think they will have enough swimmer qualify for state to really compete for the title.

[stxbomber999]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I just don't see X being a legitimate threat to win state. They will contend and be a deciding factor, but in the end it will be either SC or Cville, mainly because of relays. I don't know what projected relays you are going on but I do not see X in the top 3 for relays in either the 200 medley relay or 200 free relay. They graduate 3 on the medley, and they don't have a chance against SC or Firestone and it will probably be slower than Centerville's too. The 200 free relay is even more troublesome. X graduates 3 extremely fast swimmers with no one clearly waiting in the wings. I see Lipari and Miller but then what--Jim Brower?

I base SC's speed on facts. They have the best pure speed in the state. X only has Lipari and Miller. No one else can deliver in the clutch like SC. X will have a good taper at state, despite the opposite trend for most of the state, but not nearly as good as SC's.

Relays do measure depth. 6 good swimmers could be enough to win state if it was a diverse group of specialties. Moeller couldn't win state because all but one of its core members was basically a sprint freestyler. They were trying to win the state title in 2 events and relays, and they put up a damned impressive fight. SC has more quality swimmers in a wider variety of events. Their dominance will be obvious next season.

You do not give X enough credit. You said X graduated 3 guys on the medley and the 200 free so the wont be a factor. You must be right no team can graduate swimmers and possibly do well the next year... oh wait thats not true at all. Look at last year X and SC both graduated 3 on their Medleys last year and both came back to be finish top three. Also Xs medley will be much better next year, 1:35.0 was not that good. A 24.8 and 23.2 back and flyer can easily be replaced and Lipari will better than Schwartz, then alls they need is decent freestyler. In the 200 free who is going to beat X? sure sc could do it, but who else will be able to knock them out of the top three, and once again X lost 3 guys in 08 but reloaded in 09, thats the trend. In the 400 it will brobably be a rase between SC and X.

Also you said X only has miller and Lipari. Thats not true at all. Maybe you should do a little reasearch before you start making claims about a team. They have three other guys who are seeded to be in the top 8, and just to let you know Gabe Baumgartner is better than Lipari was as a Sophmore and Robert Lawley is better than Miller. So to say X doesnt have enough guys is a completely false statment, because they always do.

I agree with you when you say SC had alot more variety of swimmers than Moe, but again I point you back to 05 UA had all types of swimmers, they had a guy score in every event except for breast. They had speed and depth but the still lost.

Finally ill say this again, dont you think its a little early to declare someone the state champ? Let it go for a little while and come back to it.

[thedutchman]

Don't overlook X. No one has done it year in and year out like X. 30 state championships in the last 40 years and the years they didn't win they usually finished 2d. No matter how you measure it X has more state points returning than Cville. Plus they are X. There will be at least 3 or more swimmers in the state meet next year from X scoring points that weren't there this year. They will again dominate the 500. Their relays will be top 3. Who would have predicted this year that they would win the 400 and 200 relays at the beginning of the year? Mark my words, next year the meet will be between X and SC. Cville will be 3rd.

[Fly4Fun]

Don't overlook X. No one has done it year in and year out like X. 30 state championships in the last 40 years and the years they didn't win they usually finished 2d. No matter how you measure it X has more state points returning than Cville. Plus they are X. There will be at least 3 or more swimmers in the state meet next year from X scoring points that weren't there this year. They will again dominate the 500. Their relays will be top 3. Who would have predicted this year that they would win the 400 and 200 relays at the beginning of the year? Mark my words, next year the meet will be between X and SC. Cville will be 3rd.

I'm an SC alumnus and fan... but whoever is counting out X because of a lack of perceived "fast" swimmers is not being realistic. X always graduates fast swimmers and manages to replace them. St. X is a great example of a team that "reloads" instead of rebuilding. To assume otherwise is just a bit foolish. St. Charles is starting to get to that point where they have a swimmers come out of the woodwork each year to do amazing things, but St. X has been there before.

But St. Charles definitely does have a chance next year...

Oh, and I'm not leaving out Centerville because i don't think they stand a chance, I just know very little about their team so it is not right for me to comment.

[Amazin']

I'm an SC alumnus and fan... but whoever is counting out X because of a lack of perceived "fast" swimmers is not being realistic. X always graduates fast swimmers and manages to replace them. St. X is a great example of a team that "reloads" instead of rebuilding. To assume otherwise is just a bit foolish. St. Charles is starting to get to that point where they have a swimmers come out of the woodwork each year to do amazing things, but St. X has been there before.
.

you have to remember. Alex Miller didn't even make state last year. Just an example of how they reload good swimmers, and quickly. You can always count on the St. Xavier Distance team to produce someone.

(edit) this is a good point Fly.

[Hurricane Ike]

You do not give X enough credit. You said X graduated 3 guys on the medley and the 200 free so the wont be a factor. You must be right no team can graduate swimmers and possibly do well the next year... oh wait thats not true at all. Look at last year X and SC both graduated 3 on their Medleys last year and both came back to be finish top three. Also Xs medley will be much better next year, 1:35.0 was not that good. A 24.8 and 23.2 back and flyer can easily be replaced and Lipari will better than Schwartz, then alls they need is decent freestyler. In the 200 free who is going to beat X? sure sc could do it, but who else will be able to knock them out of the top three, and once again X lost 3 guys in 08 but reloaded in 09, thats the trend. In the 400 it will brobably be a rase between SC and X.

Also you said X only has miller and Lipari. Thats not true at all. Maybe you should do a little reasearch before you start making claims about a team. They have three other guys who are seeded to be in the top 8, and just to let you know Gabe Baumgartner is better than Lipari was as a Sophmore and Robert Lawley is better than Miller. So to say X doesnt have enough guys is a completely false statment, because they always do.

I agree with you when you say SC had alot more variety of swimmers than Moe, but again I point you back to 05 UA had all types of swimmers, they had a guy score in every event except for breast. They had speed and depth but the still lost.

Finally ill say this again, dont you think its a little early to declare someone the state champ? Let it go for a little while and come back to it.

I think you misunderstood me when I said X only has Miller and Lipari. In that instance, I was referring only to the 200 free relay. If you were talking about the 200 free relay, then your a fool because Baumgartner goes a 23.5 in the 50, and R. Lawley goes a 24.4. Those times will not put the 200 free relay in the top 3.

This past year, I thought X would be solid because I saw they returned a strong core. This year, the returning talent is just less than in years' past. Before you have a spazz attack hear me out. X will have some very good swimmers. All you have to do is look at the state results to see how thier returning guys stack up. But they cannot match the firepower of SC or even Centerville. In the medley you say a 24.8 backstroker can be easily replaced. I suppose you are right in this respect. But where is this 23.2 flyer? The 23.2 flyer this year was Lipari. Yet you have him swimming "a much faster breaststroke leg." Is he going to do both? The medley relay for X will suffer and Centerville, Firestone, and SC will beat it. I do not see who is going replace the 3 grads on the 200 free relay. Last year, it was at least conceivable to see Schoenling and Louis on the relay because they had given consistently quick 50s. I do not see the 21 highs and 22 lows knocking down the door.

You say that the 200 free relay will go to X pointwise. You're probably right except that happened when SC won in 2008. Also not that Sam Kocher is seeded 2nd going into next season leaving X and SC with one projected 200 free finalist each. Granted, X will reload in the 200 better than SC but you are incorrect when you say X reloaded in the event this year. Last year's 200 freestylers for X were Lawley, Columbus, Conaty, and Heinsen. Only Lawley and Columbus made it to state. This year it was Columbus, Lawley, Miller and Gores. Only Gores didnt qualify. However, Miller does not really count as reloading when it was clear last year he had a distance background because he swam the 500 at districts last year. I would hesitate to say reloading is a trend.

For some reason you think 2010 will be like 2005. For one neither SC or Centerville is as good as that UA team. Also, SC does not and will not choke. They have won a state title before and their team had drops across the board at state, which is the time when it mattered most. The 2005 X team had Kit French, one of the best pure racers ever. 2010 X team does not have a French. The 2005 X team had one of its best classes ever (2007) in thier sophomore year. This class included David Mosko. The 2010 X team does not have a Mosko. You keep talking about reloading but X's big time swimmers who appear out of nowhere make noise before they arrive. They always have some flash of potential that becomes an enormous explosion their senior year. I do not see any flashes. It has already been established that the individual scorers for next year leaves the Big Three very close. Once again I argue that the relays will decide the meet. X simply does not have enough flashes to put all three relays in the top three.

[Xbomber098]

As an alumnus of the distance dynasty that is St. X distance swimming I can agree 100% with amazin'. The distance group at x continues to reload with guys year after year. As amazin' stated, Alex Miller had never been to the state meet, and just look what he threw down this year. Robert Lawley also had never made it to the state meet, and he is just a sophomore. Just because X lacks the returning fast swimmers does not count them out. X brought back 4 swimmers from the 2008 team, and this year there were 14 guys competing in the state meet. X can, and will reload for next year. As for St. Charles, they are becoming a rising power in the swimming world. If they continue the way they have been over the past 3 years, I can only imagine that it will be a battle between X and SC for the state title year after year. Centerville in my mind will be swimming for third. They still lack experience in the top 8 and their highly praised relays did very little. Also, they cant seem to carry their district performances over to the state meet. This is a major problem if they hope to win a state title.

[SwimFan23]

granted cville will get 3rd, but they could help st charles win the meet

i do agree that X will be weak on the relays, i just dont see any people that can make a relay champion...especially their 2free and 2medley relay

in which centerville will help st charles championship next season by beating X in the medley relay and 2free relay in which their 2free relay graduates no seniors and their medley relay i assume will be stronger than ever considering that their breastroker, litvoniv, did not seem to taper for state ,idk why, because his performance at ohio senior champs seems to show that he can win the breastroke title next year and help their medley win, assuming he swims that way again

[stxbomber999]

I think you misunderstood me when I said X only has Miller and Lipari. In that instance, I was referring only to the 200 free relay. If you were talking about the 200 free relay, then your a fool because Baumgartner goes a 23.5 in the 50, and R. Lawley goes a 24.4. Those times will not put the 200 free relay in the top 3.

This past year, I thought X would be solid because I saw they returned a strong core. This year, the returning talent is just less than in years' past. Before you have a spazz attack hear me out. X will have some very good swimmers. All you have to do is look at the state results to see how thier returning guys stack up. But they cannot match the firepower of SC or even Centerville. In the medley you say a 24.8 backstroker can be easily replaced. I suppose you are right in this respect. But where is this 23.2 flyer? The 23.2 flyer this year was Lipari. Yet you have him swimming "a much faster breaststroke leg." Is he going to do both? The medley relay for X will suffer and Centerville, Firestone, and SC will beat it. I do not see who is going replace the 3 grads on the 200 free relay. Last year, it was at least conceivable to see Schoenling and Louis on the relay because they had given consistently quick 50s. I do not see the 21 highs and 22 lows knocking down the door.

You say that the 200 free relay will go to X pointwise. You're probably right except that happened when SC won in 2008. Also not that Sam Kocher is seeded 2nd going into next season leaving X and SC with one projected 200 free finalist each. Granted, X will reload in the 200 better than SC but you are incorrect when you say X reloaded in the event this year. Last year's 200 freestylers for X were Lawley, Columbus, Conaty, and Heinsen. Only Lawley and Columbus made it to state. This year it was Columbus, Lawley, Miller and Gores. Only Gores didnt qualify. However, Miller does not really count as reloading when it was clear last year he had a distance background because he swam the 500 at districts last year. I would hesitate to say reloading is a trend.

For some reason you think 2010 will be like 2005. For one neither SC or Centerville is as good as that UA team. Also, SC does not and will not choke. They have won a state title before and their team had drops across the board at state, which is the time when it mattered most. The 2005 X team had Kit French, one of the best pure racers ever. 2010 X team does not have a French. The 2005 X team had one of its best classes ever (2007) in thier sophomore year. This class included David Mosko. The 2010 X team does not have a Mosko. You keep talking about reloading but X's big time swimmers who appear out of nowhere make noise before they arrive. They always have some flash of potential that becomes an enormous explosion their senior year. I do not see any flashes. It has already been established that the individual scorers for next year leaves the Big Three very close. Once again I argue that the relays will decide the meet. X simply does not have enough flashes to put all three relays in the top three.


Ok i didnt realize you were talking about the 200 free relay when you said X only had Miller and Lipari, so yes Rob and Gabe yould not be on that. However you said 21 highs and 22 lows didnt look very good. Well Schoenling was a 21 high last year and Louis was 22 mid at best, so who says Beirman and Morrison cant be 21 mid-21 low. i dont expect Xs 200 free relay to be as fast as it was this year but i dont think they will need to be to win, let alone get in the top three.

You said X looked good comming into this year because they returned a strong core and that this year's returning team is worse. Are you serious about this comment? Lets compare the two returning classes: Top Swimmer 09- Matt Columbus- Junior Year stats two 7th place finishes, Top Swimmer 10- Alex Miller- Junior Year states two 3rd place finishes, 2nd Best Swimmer 09- Will Lawley- Junior Year stats 3rd and 11th, 2nd Best Swimmer 10- Sam Lipari- Junior Year stats 5th and 6th, 3rd Swimmer 09- Evan Schwartz- Junior Year stats 16th place, 3rd Swimmer 10- Gabe Baumgartner Sophomore Year stats 9th and 15th, 4th swimmer 09- Sam Lipari- Sophomore Year stats- did not score, 4th swimmer 10- Sean Drake- Junior Year Stats- 13th place, 5th swimmer 09- none, 5th swimmer 10- Robert Lawley- Sophomore Year stats- 14 place, 6th swimmer 09-none, 6th swimmer 10- Pat Kimutus- Junior Year stats- did not score. So as you can see when you compare the two it actually looks like to me that 2010 has a stronger returning core than 2009.

Why would you hesitate as saying reloading is a trend? There were several guys who swam events this year that they didnt swim in previous years and they still made it to state. Even if you dont call what Alex did "reloading" it still is a great example of how much X swimmers can improve in one year. I'm not saying SC's guys won't improve, but to say X isn't a threat is not giving enough credit to what the program does year in and year out.

No i do not think 2010 will be like 2005, and i think this for the exact reason you mentioned, SC is not as good as that UA team was. You also listed many reasons why 2010 X is not as good as 2005 X, well if SC isnt as good as that UA team then they dont have to be. Alex Miller may not be as good a racer as Kit (that is still yet to be seen), but his is still capable of doing everything Kit did for that team, which is winning 2 events and having 2 solid relay swims. Also you said they have no Dave Mosko. You are correct, but Sam Lipari is capable of doing everything Dave did for that team, which is a 1st and a 2nd and 2 solid relay swims.

You're not entirely true about X's guys making noise before they get to X. Sure eveyone knew about Dave, and even Matt Columbus before they got to X. Howeverguys do come out of nowhere. Prime example, Alex Miller. Freshman year he was a 5:01 shaved and tapered at his last meet for X. Two years later he's 30 seconds faster and the number 1 distance swimmer in the state headed into his senior year. Will Lawley was the same way. Never broke 5 mins until he came to X. Ended up going a 20.1 and a 44.7 on relays when it was all over. You never know what X will pull out next.

[thedutchman]

As for St. Charles, they are becoming a rising power in the swimming world. If they continue the way they have been over the past 3 years, I can only imagine that it will be a battle between X and SC for the state title year after year.

Absolutely correct!

[Uncoordinated]

Centerville is being unfairly discredited. And SC's glory days are over after next years seniors leave. X's sophomores are exponentially better.
A few years ago, it was toledo st. francis that competed with the bombers.
Then, the bears of UA.
Giving way to the Cardinals from Saint Charles.
All have come, all have gone.
NOW IS THE ERA OF THE ELKS!

by the bye, did anybody see litvinov's results from seniors? It looks like Lipari is falling out of the picture. Litvinov is looking really, REALLY quick. 57.?? for all those who don't know. Just know though, ?? means faster than lipari.

[OhioSWIM002]

what happens to centerville when schieman,perkins,litvinov, and roberts leave? they dont have anyone to replace them

also did litvinov not taper for state? why couldnt he go at least a 58 at state, not a 59.7?

[Uncoordinated]

check the results. I don't know why went 59 at state, but he is 57 now. Plus, keep in mind he was fully tapered for state and just wasn't feeling/swimming all that well. So that 57 wasn't in the ideal swimming conditions. He's going to fly next year.

[crusader007]

ONE meet doesn't determine someone's future...if he goes that time again then I will believe it. When Litvinov beats Lipari head to head I will believe it.

[Uncoordinated]

I'm just saying, you take Lipari and Litvinov in head to head race right, Lipari is sure to lose. Litvinov has proven himself better. Litvinov is speeding ahead and Lipari is stuck in his wake, fading into the distance.

[OhioSWIM002]

whatever tapered or not, litvinov swam at a better pool than lipari when they went their 57s and there times are still close plus,

bartley is a 57.22

[Hurricane Ike]

Ok i didnt realize you were talking about the 200 free relay when you said X only had Miller and Lipari, so yes Rob and Gabe yould not be on that. However you said 21 highs and 22 lows didnt look very good. Well Schoenling was a 21 high last year and Louis was 22 mid at best, so who says Beirman and Morrison cant be 21 mid-21 low. i dont expect Xs 200 free relay to be as fast as it was this year but i dont think they will need to be to win, let alone get in the top three.

You said X looked good comming into this year because they returned a strong core and that this year's returning team is worse. Are you serious about this comment? Lets compare the two returning classes: Top Swimmer 09- Matt Columbus- Junior Year stats two 7th place finishes, Top Swimmer 10- Alex Miller- Junior Year states two 3rd place finishes, 2nd Best Swimmer 09- Will Lawley- Junior Year stats 3rd and 11th, 2nd Best Swimmer 10- Sam Lipari- Junior Year stats 5th and 6th, 3rd Swimmer 09- Evan Schwartz- Junior Year stats 16th place, 3rd Swimmer 10- Gabe Baumgartner Sophomore Year stats 9th and 15th, 4th swimmer 09- Sam Lipari- Sophomore Year stats- did not score, 4th swimmer 10- Sean Drake- Junior Year Stats- 13th place, 5th swimmer 09- none, 5th swimmer 10- Robert Lawley- Sophomore Year stats- 14 place, 6th swimmer 09-none, 6th swimmer 10- Pat Kimutus- Junior Year stats- did not score. So as you can see when you compare the two it actually looks like to me that 2010 has a stronger returning core than 2009.

Why would you hesitate as saying reloading is a trend? There were several guys who swam events this year that they didnt swim in previous years and they still made it to state. Even if you dont call what Alex did "reloading" it still is a great example of how much X swimmers can improve in one year. I'm not saying SC's guys won't improve, but to say X isn't a threat is not giving enough credit to what the program does year in and year out.

No i do not think 2010 will be like 2005, and i think this for the exact reason you mentioned, SC is not as good as that UA team was. You also listed many reasons why 2010 X is not as good as 2005 X, well if SC isnt as good as that UA team then they dont have to be. Alex Miller may not be as good a racer as Kit (that is still yet to be seen), but his is still capable of doing everything Kit did for that team, which is winning 2 events and having 2 solid relay swims. Also you said they have no Dave Mosko. You are correct, but Sam Lipari is capable of doing everything Dave did for that team, which is a 1st and a 2nd and 2 solid relay swims.

You're not entirely true about X's guys making noise before they get to X. Sure eveyone knew about Dave, and even Matt Columbus before they got to X. Howeverguys do come out of nowhere. Prime example, Alex Miller. Freshman year he was a 5:01 shaved and tapered at his last meet for X. Two years later he's 30 seconds faster and the number 1 distance swimmer in the state headed into his senior year. Will Lawley was the same way. Never broke 5 mins until he came to X. Ended up going a 20.1 and a 44.7 on relays when it was all over. You never know what X will pull out next.

I wouldnt trust Morisson with a 100 free relay judging by his 50 split at state. He led off in a 22.7 At the highest level of competition, 22 high doesnt cut it. I see that he went 22.2 at districts but that was one time. He has even more to prove than Litivinov. And from what I saw of him at states, he just doesn't seem that strong, big, or powerful. Schoenling is a monster and Louis is a big kid. I dont know much about Bierman except his 22.5 time. If he is big, he might improve in the same ilk as Louis. He too, though, has yet to lay down fast times in crunch time. If your hope for the relay is improvement in two swimmers, then you're "livin' on a prayer."

I tried really hard, but I just didnt understand your second paragraph analysis of X's returning swimmer last year. When I looked at them, I saw the #1 seed in the 200 and another in the top 8, 2 top 8 IMers, 2 top 8 breaststrokers plus Baumgartner, at least 1 top 8 500er (I wasnt sure if Lawley would swim it and I had no idea how fast Miller would really get. I only had him top 16), and a couple sprinters who would lead to some very solid free relays. I also assumed people I had yet to hear of would rise to the occasion as they always do.

I don't think reloading is a trend. I think X has a history of clutch performances. Some people will rise to the occasion again, but I do not see evidence of this type of performance that would suggest that the same number of people will do this. Once again, I state that X will do quite nicely in the individual events, including points from people I've yet to see perform in the big time. But, that will leave the Big Three within 20 points of each other. SC's depth in big time swimming will lead the Cardinals to dominating relay swims and the state title. I don't really care what 2005 has to do with this year. I think the years are different. You think they are similar. In the end, it won't matter, and the fundamental difference is that SC does not choke like UA did and regularly does.

When I said, make a little noise, I meant at the high school level. I really dont give a damn about 8th grade times as people grow at different rates, and some could decide to change sports anyway. If you know junior high times, it's kind of creepy. Anyway, Lawley got 18th in the state as a freshman. That's more than a flash in the pan. Miller went a 4:40 in his 500 at Y nats right after 2008 States. That's quite a flash. If next year's flashes are 22.7 50 frees, then X has got some problems next year. Every once in a while, you get a Gallagher who truly comes out of nowhere, but even he went a 49 hundred free the year before. Cole Dennis looks like he could be one of the somewhat unknown guys making state, but he went a 53.6 at districts. Just accept it already. X is not as good in 2010 as they were in 2009. SC will rise again. Let the coronation begin.

[Paine]

Wow. This is amazing. A sustained, civil debate about swimming. I never thought I would live long enough to witness this day. We have no posts telling others to live in "egregious shame" or whatever it is.

Ike, I can see you passionately believe Saint Charles will win state next year. I just want to remind you not to be too sure of anything in March. Anything can happen. Prime example is Alex Miller. He swam the IM at districts his sophomore year, and then made top 8 in the 200 free the next. I wouldn't underestimate Saint Xavier's ability to churn out several quality swimmers through good training.

[Dirty Thirty]

Centerville is being unfairly discredited. And SC's glory days are over after next years seniors leave. X's sophomores are exponentially better.
A few years ago, it was toledo st. francis that competed with the bombers.
Then, the bears of UA.
Giving way to the Cardinals from Saint Charles.
All have come, all have gone.
NOW IS THE ERA OF THE ELKS!

by the bye, did anybody see litvinov's results from seniors? It looks like Lipari is falling out of the picture. Litvinov is looking really, REALLY quick. 57.?? for all those who don't know. Just know though, ?? means faster than lipari.

Unfortunately for Litvinov, no one cares what you go after state. 57.67 at senior meet means very little, why couldnt he go that time at state? My answer would be because he choked. Thats the only logical answer as to why one week he is a 58 high and the next a 57 high. He has never performed when it counts, and that is why Centerville will be competing for third.

Coming out of this season, I would say X is by far the most tested team in ohio. They bring back a lot of guys from this years team, most of who based on results from this years meet, are top three on their events. If you want to talk about a team who has proved that they can swim it is X. They competed at Big 8, against people wearing leg suits and who were shaved, and still managed to dominate that meet. They swam against University who was wearing fast suits, and were even competing without Will Lawley and Matt Columbus, both of whom were out for medical reasons, and still managed to tie a team, who most thought were better that X. Then they swam Louisville St. X who were the kentucky state champs. They also brought fast suits, along with 100+ fans and ended up losing by 60 points to the Bombers. Finally the South West Classic. While the rest of the teams were in fast suits the Bombers yet again swam in speedos, and still managed to crush the field, with one of the relays getting DQ'ed.

The Bombers were tested all year long, and they proved that regardless of what odds were stacked against them, they were still able to step up and race. This is something no other team in ohio has done. Centerville never stepped up and raced, they were lack luster all year long, even with fast suits. The only other team I would recognize as having stepped up would be St. Charles. Those guys know how to race, but they lack the competition on a meet to meet level. Regardless, they have also been tested, and will be a major force in next years state championship meet. It will be X vs. SC. It will yet again be a catholic showdown.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Unfortunately for Litvinov, no one cares what you go after state. 57.67 at senior meet means very little, why couldnt he go that time at state? My answer would be because he choked. Thats the only logical answer as to why one week he is a 58 high and the next a 57 high. He has never performed when it counts, and that is why Centerville will be competing for third.

Coming out of this season, I would say X is by far the most tested team in ohio. They bring back a lot of guys from this years team, most of who based on results from this years meet, are top three on their events. If you want to talk about a team who has proved that they can swim it is X. They competed at Big 8, against people wearing leg suits and who were shaved, and still managed to dominate that meet. They swam against University who was wearing fast suits, and were even competing without Will Lawley and Matt Columbus, both of whom were out for medical reasons, and still managed to tie a team, who most thought were better that X. Then they swam Louisville St. X who were the kentucky state champs. They also brought fast suits, along with 100+ fans and ended up losing by 60 points to the Bombers. Finally the South West Classic. While the rest of the teams were in fast suits the Bombers yet again swam in speedos, and still managed to crush the field, with one of the relays getting DQ'ed.

The Bombers were tested all year long, and they proved that regardless of what odds were stacked against them, they were still able to step up and race. This is something no other team in ohio has done. Centerville never stepped up and raced, they were lack luster all year long, even with fast suits. The only other team I would recognize as having stepped up would be St. Charles. Those guys know how to race, but they lack the competition on a meet to meet level. Regardless, they have also been tested, and will be a major force in next years state championship meet. It will be X vs. SC. It will yet again be a catholic showdown.

first off, litvinov never went a 58 ever, you must have him confused with schieman...
also, he was very sick before districts and state

[Dirty Thirty]

i still dont think he would have been able to go a 57.6 at state. Cantons pool is a lot worse than Miami's.

[Number1Spot77]

first off, litvinov never went a 58 ever, you must have him confused with schieman...
also, he was very sick before districts and state

Sick..ha you can still swim when you are sick maybe not the best you can but still. Plenty of other people were sick and still managed to pull some fast times out.

[stxbomber999]

I wouldnt trust Morisson with a 100 free relay judging by his 50 split at state. He led off in a 22.7 At the highest level of competition, 22 high doesnt cut it. I see that he went 22.2 at districts but that was one time. He has even more to prove than Litivinov. And from what I saw of him at states, he just doesn't seem that strong, big, or powerful. Schoenling is a monster and Louis is a big kid. I dont know much about Bierman except his 22.5 time. If he is big, he might improve in the same ilk as Louis. He too, though, has yet to lay down fast times in crunch time. If your hope for the relay is improvement in two swimmers, then you're "livin' on a prayer."

I tried really hard, but I just didnt understand your second paragraph analysis of X's returning swimmer last year. When I looked at them, I saw the #1 seed in the 200 and another in the top 8, 2 top 8 IMers, 2 top 8 breaststrokers plus Baumgartner, at least 1 top 8 500er (I wasnt sure if Lawley would swim it and I had no idea how fast Miller would really get. I only had him top 16), and a couple sprinters who would lead to some very solid free relays. I also assumed people I had yet to hear of would rise to the occasion as they always do.

I don't think reloading is a trend. I think X has a history of clutch performances. Some people will rise to the occasion again, but I do not see evidence of this type of performance that would suggest that the same number of people will do this. Once again, I state that X will do quite nicely in the individual events, including points from people I've yet to see perform in the big time. But, that will leave the Big Three within 20 points of each other. SC's depth in big time swimming will lead the Cardinals to dominating relay swims and the state title. I don't really care what 2005 has to do with this year. I think the years are different. You think they are similar. In the end, it won't matter, and the fundamental difference is that SC does not choke like UA did and regularly does.

When I said, make a little noise, I meant at the high school level. I really dont give a damn about 8th grade times as people grow at different rates, and some could decide to change sports anyway. If you know junior high times, it's kind of creepy. Anyway, Lawley got 18th in the state as a freshman. That's more than a flash in the pan. Miller went a 4:40 in his 500 at Y nats right after 2008 States. That's quite a flash. If next year's flashes are 22.7 50 frees, then X has got some problems next year. Every once in a while, you get a Gallagher who truly comes out of nowhere, but even he went a 49 hundred free the year before. Cole Dennis looks like he could be one of the somewhat unknown guys making state, but he went a 53.6 at districts. Just accept it already. X is not as good in 2010 as they were in 2009. SC will rise again. Let the coronation begin.

If you can assume this about last year why is it so hard to assume it about this year? Look i'm just going to leave it at this, it is too soon to be crowning someone the state champion, the past season hasnt been over for two weeks. The only reason why I challenged your statement in the first place is becuase you said X wont be a legitiment threat to win state next year, which everyone knows is not true.

[stxbomber999]

Centerville is being unfairly discredited. And SC's glory days are over after next years seniors leave. X's sophomores are exponentially better.
A few years ago, it was toledo st. francis that competed with the bombers.
Then, the bears of UA.
Giving way to the Cardinals from Saint Charles.
All have come, all have gone.
NOW IS THE ERA OF THE ELKS!

by the bye, did anybody see litvinov's results from seniors? It looks like Lipari is falling out of the picture. Litvinov is looking really, REALLY quick. 57.?? for all those who don't know. Just know though, ?? means faster than lipari.

When you say era of the Elks, do you mean Cville will be state champs, or it will be X vs Cville, like its X vs SC now? Also dont hold the X guys senior meet performances against them, i dont think they take that meet very seriously.

[crusader007]

first off, litvinov never went a 58 ever, you must have him confused with schieman...
also, he was very sick before districts and state

I notice you use this excuse a lot. At districts it was Schieman not feeling good and now that you have another swimmer that people are talking about, you say that he underperformed because he was sick. People are always sick, its not really a big excuse. Moeller's Kevin Koenig had bronchitis during Districts and State but do you see him making excuses for it...no.

[ElksSWIM2010]

i was just defending him and saying he did not choke and he swam the best he could...and schieman swam well at state

[Fly4Fun]

Centerville is being unfairly discredited. And SC's glory days are over after next years seniors leave. X's sophomores are exponentially better.
A few years ago, it was toledo st. francis that competed with the bombers.
Then, the bears of UA.
Giving way to the Cardinals from Saint Charles.
All have come, all have gone.
NOW IS THE ERA OF THE ELKS!


Glory days are over? What makes you think the current coaching regime are just going to stop coaching after this years Junior/next years Senior class leaves? The reason St. Charles has had a rise to power is because of the coaching staff. Sandy Whitaker swam in the JV Championship meet his freshman year... 2 years later a state champ in 2 events and 1 relay. He is just the latest and possibly best example of swimmers showing huge improvement on the St. Charles team year to year. Kyle Goodrich and the other coaches have done an amazing job with the program and they develope all swimmers who come from the program... no one is ignored. Those who come in with a strong swimming background and those who come in relatively new to the sport all receive attention and show vast improvements year to year. The only time St. Charles glory days will be over is possibly when there are multiple change ups on the coaching staff... but as long as this group of coaches are at St. Charles I expect them to be among the elite programs in the state.

And to the post saying SC lacks competition on a meet to meet basis... you do realize that St. Charles through their rise of power go out every year and try to schedule the best teams/meets they can, right? The St. Charles Catholic Showdown is a prime example of that... inviting all the best Catholic swim teams from Ohio and states around Ohio to visit and get great competition. St. Charles is just as battle tested each season as St. Xavier and it shows in the post-season where swimmers from both teams continually improve from District to State and swim great races... will they beat them next year? That remains to be seen.

[thedutchman]

For the last several years X, SC, UA and University have consistently performed well in the state meet. That's due to coaching and planning. Look at each team and you will see that they set up their schedules to test their teams. They schedule meets that help their swimmers learn how to race. The payoff comes at the end of the season when they need to drop time and compete. These teams are where they are today because of the coaching staffs that attract talent and develop talent. Fly is correct the only thing that will cause SC...or for that matter UA, University, or X to drop out of the swimming elite will be if the coaching does. I don't see that happening at any of these schools.

[ralphjones]

Centerville is being unfairly discredited. And SC's glory days are over after next years seniors leave. X's sophomores are exponentially better.
A few years ago, it was toledo st. francis that competed with the bombers.
Then, the bears of UA.
Giving way to the Cardinals from Saint Charles.
All have come, all have gone.
NOW IS THE ERA OF THE ELKS!

Glory days are over? What makes you think the current coaching regime are just going to stop coaching after this years Junior/next years Senior class leaves? The reason St. Charles has had a rise to power is because of the coaching staff. Sandy Whitaker swam in the JV Championship meet his freshman year... 2 years later a state champ in 2 events and 1 relay. He is just the latest and possibly best example of swimmers showing huge improvement on the St. Charles team year to year. Kyle Goodrich and the other coaches have done an amazing job with the program and they develope all swimmers who come from the program... no one is ignored. Those who come in with a strong swimming background and those who come in relatively new to the sport all receive attention and show vast improvements year to year. The only time St. Charles glory days will be over is possibly when there are multiple change ups on the coaching staff... but as long as this group of coaches are at St. Charles I expect them to be among the elite programs in the state.

And to the post saying SC lacks competition on a meet to meet basis... you do realize that St. Charles through their rise of power go out every year and try to schedule the best teams/meets they can, right? The St. Charles Catholic Showdown is a prime example of that... inviting all the best Catholic swim teams from Ohio and states around Ohio to visit and get great competition. St. Charles is just as battle tested each season as St. Xavier and it shows in the post-season where swimmers from both teams continually improve from District to State and swim great races... will they beat them next year? That remains to be seen.

Fly you have it exactly right. Word is that SC will have a terrific freshman class next year...of the class of 08 quality, but that remains to be seen. For now count on SC and X trading the title back and forth for the next few years. "Era of the Elks"...win something first, then talk.

[Hurricane Ike]

If you can assume this about last year why is it so hard to assume it about this year? Look i'm just going to leave it at this, it is too soon to be crowning someone the state champion, the past season hasnt been over for two weeks. The only reason why I challenged your statement in the first place is becuase you said X wont be a legitiment threat to win state next year, which everyone knows is not true.

I do think X is a threat, but they will not be the same caliber of a threat as the likes of SC and CVille. If you dont like taking part in an early crowning of next year's champion, dont post about it. You are welcome to ignore this. I, on the other hand, am striking up the band for the ultimate victory march of the Cardinals in 2010.

Also, you don't think lousy swims at Senior Meet are that important. The times won't matter much after the meet but the mindset stays the same. You can't just turn on big time swimming like a light switch. You have to constantly compete at a high level. Whitaker went a 48.88 at Senior meet in his 100 fly. Litivinov had his quick breast. Those who take swimming seriously now will see the dividends at the end. It will be the most mentally sound team accepting the first place trophy at the end. This team will be SC.

[stxbomber999]

I do think X is a threat, but they will not be the same caliber of a threat as the likes of SC and CVille. If you dont like taking part in an early crowning of next year's champion, dont post about it. You are welcome to ignore this. I, on the other hand, am striking up the band for the ultimate victory march of the Cardinals in 2010.

Also, you don't think lousy swims at Senior Meet are that important. The times won't matter much after the meet but the mindset stays the same. You can't just turn on big time swimming like a light switch. You have to constantly compete at a high level. Whitaker went a 48.88 at Senior meet in his 100 fly. Litivinov had his quick breast. Those who take swimming seriously now will see the dividends at the end. It will be the most mentally sound team accepting the first place trophy at the end. This team will be SC.

Senior meet isnt important. If you go i good time that is great, but if you have a bad time thats means absolutely nothing. You want to know what X's mindset is at that meet is, we just worked our tails off for the past six months with no breaks and we won another state title, its ok to take a little break. Also you dont have to worry about X taking swimming seriously, Jim Brower keeps his team on its toes at all time. Also hiw do you know SC will be more "mentally sound" than X. As someone else posted X faces a lot tougher competition throughout the year, just look at this year, Moeller domminated the relays (that no one in the SW was supposed to be able to touch X in) at the classic and districts, but that didnt phase them. They kept focused on state and when the time came they were ready to win.

[stxbomber999]

And about centerville, they have to prove they can be a title contender before they be considered a threat. SC got runner-up two years in a row before people started saying they could challenge X, and I'm pretty sure UA did the same thing. So to all the elks fans, you do have a good team, but how about you do something with it before you start bragging.

[Hurricane Ike]

Senior meet isnt important. If you go i good time that is great, but if you have a bad time thats means absolutely nothing. You want to know what X's mindset is at that meet is, we just worked our tails off for the past six months with no breaks and we won another state title, its ok to take a little break. Also you dont have to worry about X taking swimming seriously, Jim Brower keeps his team on its toes at all time. Also hiw do you know SC will be more "mentally sound" than X. As someone else posted X faces a lot tougher competition throughout the year, just look at this year, Moeller domminated the relays (that no one in the SW was supposed to be able to touch X in) at the classic and districts, but that didnt phase them. They kept focused on state and when the time came they were ready to win.

The mindset you describe and excuse is one of complacency and vulnerability. Oh, I just won state. I can take this meet off. This turns into a day of practice which becomes a week, which becomes a habitual practice skipping routine. First, it is one meet that doesnt matter. Then it spreads into many other meets until the end of the season when the complacent swimmers realize that it is time to take meets seriously. By then it is too late. I dont doubt Brower's motivational skills, but he cant turn on the lightswitch for the swimmers. The swimmer is responsible for his mental attitude. This kind relaxed, complacent attitude leaves one open to getting picked off. Clearly, X is not hungry enough to beat SC. SC is already preparing for next season while X rests on its laurels. You are trying to make excuses for lousy performances. Champions dont make excuses.

[stxbomber999]

The mindset you describe and excuse is one of complacency and vulnerability. Oh, I just won state. I can take this meet off. This turns into a day of practice which becomes a week, which becomes a habitual practice skipping routine. First, it is one meet that doesnt matter. Then it spreads into many other meets until the end of the season when the complacent swimmers realize that it is time to take meets seriously. By then it is too late. I dont doubt Brower's motivational skills, but he cant turn on the lightswitch for the swimmers. The swimmer is responsible for his mental attitude. This kind relaxed, complacent attitude leaves one open to getting picked off. Clearly, X is not hungry enough to beat SC. SC is already preparing for next season while X rests on its laurels. You are trying to make excuses for lousy performances. Champions dont make excuses.

It was a week after the season, its ok to step back and take a breather, if you train to hard for to long you can burn out. Theyll be plenty motivated to win when the time comes. there is still 11 plus months until next years state. Also dont base the opinions of many on one person. Just because i said some bad times for Xs guys isnt a big deal doesnt mean they feel that way.

[Fly4Fun]

I doubt St. Xavier is going to start slipping with their intensity.. you've been able to keep it up for some 40 years now? For some reason i don't think that program is going to start faltering... what I said about SC being able to maintain their new success works for other top programs like St. Xavier obviously. They have the coaches and the system in place to keep the team performing at a very high level. It is silly to just assume that they will start to fall apart for no reason.

[stxbomber999]

I doubt St. Xavier is going to start slipping with their intensity.. you've been able to keep it up for some 40 years now? For some reason i don't think that program is going to start faltering... what I said about SC being able to maintain their new success works for other top programs like St. Xavier obviously. They have the coaches and the system in place to keep the team performing at a very high level. It is silly to just assume that they will start to fall apart for no reason.

Exactly, and SC is looking like they are starting to reach that level. It looks to me like its going to be X vs SC for a while, and there is no indication of that changing.

[thedutchman]

Exactly, and SC is looking like they are starting to reach that level. It looks to me like its going to be X vs SC for a while, and there is no indication of that changing.

Correct! This year's performance by SC shows that this is not just one very talented class coming through. That's the difference between SC and others who have challenged X's dominance. Those teams did it with a particularly talented group and then fell back. It doesn't look like SC will do that under the current coaching staff. They continue to attract and develop state caliber swimmers. The key is the ability to develop swimmers. That's the secret of X's 40 years of success. Anyone can win with a Hudepolh, Mosko, French, etc. Its the Millers, Whitakers, Louis, Springers, Kochers, etc. that keep the program at the top year in and year out. SC is beginning to do that. Like X they have swimmers in the pipeline who are developing and will burst on the state scene their junior or senior year. This year it was Louis, Miller, Kocher, Shotwell and Grunden. Next year who knows, but they are there for both SC & X. Its good for the state as a whole but will be frustrating for other traditionally strong programs because more often than not they will be swimming for 3rd rather than competing for 2nd.

[ralphjones]

Correct! This year's performance by SC shows that this is not just one very talented class coming through. That's the difference between SC and others who have challenged X's dominance. Those teams did it with a particularly talented group and then fell back. It doesn't look like SC will do that under the current coaching staff. They continue to attract and develop state caliber swimmers. The key is the ability to develop swimmers. That's the secret of X's 40 years of success. Anyone can win with a Hudepolh, Mosko, French, etc. Its the Millers, Whitakers, Louis, Springers, Kochers, etc. that keep the program at the top year in and year out. SC is beginning to do that. Like X they have swimmers in the pipeline who are developing and will burst on the state scene their junior or senior year. This year it was Louis, Miller, Kocher, Shotwell and Grunden. Next year who knows, but they are there for both SC & X. Its good for the state as a whole but will be frustrating for other traditionally strong programs because more often than not they will be swimming for 3rd rather than competing for 2nd.

Good analysis dutchman. Another team on the rise...along with Centerville is UA. UA does on the girls side what X has done on the boys side. Several years back they won because Hawken was in D2, but now they are without peer on the girls side. They along with Centerville are presently the best of the public schools. And the UA boys are coming on strong. Even with the loss of Huffman, UA will be a contender for the top 5...possibly as high as 3rd. They have a strong freshman class due in next year and as their young swimmers...they lost only 2 seniors (granted one was Huffman)...develop they will continue to rise. So look out for UA as well.

[Uncoordinated]

excuse me, but UA lost their entire state team. Eric Huffman. That was the team.
Okay, maybe I'm being unfair. 95% of their state team. Zach Kelch i guess counts for a little.
I can't believe that people take such offense for me suggesting that centerville will be good, and when a comment as proposterous and ridiculous as that comes around, nobody says anything. UA will is nowhere close to being in the same league as centerville, and they won't be for a long time. YOU ALL ARE UNDERESTIMATING THE ELKS! AT LEAST BE CONSISTENT AND YELL AT OTHER IDEAS THAT ARE OBVIOSLY WAY MORE PROPOSTEROUS!

[Uncoordinated]

I do think X is a threat, but they will not be the same caliber of a threat as the likes of SC and CVille.

Thankyou, It appears somebody knows a little about what they are talking about.

[stxbomber999]

But what do you base that on? Its not like X doesn't return plenty of good swimmers, and X is know for being able to replace graduates with new talent. My only problem with saying X won't be as good as Centerville is that they have done nothing to prove they can swim well at state.

[ralphjones]

excuse me, but UA lost their entire state team. Eric Huffman. That was the team.
Okay, maybe I'm being unfair. 95% of their state team. Zach Kelch i guess counts for a little.
I can't believe that people take such offense for me suggesting that centerville will be good, and when a comment as proposterous and ridiculous as that comes around, nobody says anything. UA will is nowhere close to being in the same league as centerville, and they won't be for a long time. YOU ALL ARE UNDERESTIMATING THE ELKS! AT LEAST BE CONSISTENT AND YELL AT OTHER IDEAS THAT ARE OBVIOSLY WAY MORE PROPOSTEROUS!

Feeling a little paranoid uncoordinated?

Maybe no one's yelling because nothing preposterous was said. UA is on the rise. Sure they lose Huffman... and that's significant, but they have alot coming back. Aside from Kelch they have the state champ in diving returning. Take a look at the team before you declare them dead. I don't know that they will finish 3rd, but expect them to be in the top 5.

[Hurricane Ike]

UA will be in the top 5. Whoop de damn do. Way to go out on a limb there ralph. How is UA on the rise. They got Kelch and a diver. As stxbomber999 continually points out, they cholked big time at state in 2005 when they had a super fast team. Even if there is, as of now, unknown potential I just dont trust UA to swim fast at states.

Sorry Uncoordinated, but 2010 is not quite the year of the Elks. It is the reign of the Cardinals. Maybe 2011 will be CVille's year, but no one will be able to overcome the sheer speed of SC's relays. SC has more firepower than anyone else in the state and will not lose.

[Paine]

UA will be in the top 5. Whoop de damn do. Way to go out on a limb there ralph. How is UA on the rise. They got Kelch and a diver. As stxbomber999 continually points out, they cholked big time at state in 2005 when they had a super fast team. Even if there is, as of now, unknown potential I just dont trust UA to swim fast at states.

Sorry Uncoordinated, but 2010 is not quite the year of the Elks. It is the reign of the Cardinals. Maybe 2011 will be CVille's year, but no one will be able to overcome the sheer speed of SC's relays. SC has more firepower than anyone else in the state and will not lose.

Don't you thin you are being a little over-confident. I can understand your high hopes, as St. Charles certainly has a contender, but it is a little early to call it "the reign of the Cardinals." ANYTHING can happen. What if Schuttinger is academically ineligible the second semester? What if Whitaker blows his ACL over Christmas break? I'm not saying either of these scenarios will come to fruition, but there is always the possibility.

Centerville and St. X certainly feel differently. In fact, at this point, practically every team in the state of Ohio probably thinks it is a contender. As dutchman pointed out earlier, the top 3 teams in the state are extroadinarily close. Statements like "coronation" do not accurately reflect the tightness of the title chase, nor does it befit any team that does not have a projected margin of victory of at least 100 points. When you can show me the 100 point margin, I will believe you. Until then, happy hunting.

[stxbomber999]

Don't you thin you are being a little over-confident. I can understand your high hopes, as St. Charles certainly has a contender, but it is a little early to call it "the reign of the Cardinals." ANYTHING can happen. What if Schuttinger is academically ineligible the second semester? What if Whitaker blows his ACL over Christmas break? I'm not saying either of these scenarios will come to fruition, but there is always the possibility.

Centerville and St. X certainly feel differently. In fact, at this point, practically every team in the state of Ohio probably thinks it is a contender. As dutchman pointed out earlier, the top 3 teams in the state are extroadinarily close. Statements like "coronation" do not accurately reflect the tightness of the title chase, nor does it befit any team that does not have a projected margin of victory of at least 100 points. When you can show me the 100 point margin, I will believe you. Until then, happy hunting.

Exactly. It is still too early to declare someone the state champion. Sc may very well win the title in 2010, they certainly have a good shot, however there are other teams that also have a chance, and it is just too soon to see how good the teams will be next year.

[Uncoordinated]

Feeling a little paranoid uncoordinated?

Maybe no one's yelling because nothing preposterous was said. UA is on the rise. Sure they lose Huffman... and that's significant, but they have alot coming back. Aside from Kelch they have the state champ in diving returning. Take a look at the team before you declare them dead. I don't know that they will finish 3rd, but expect them to be in the top 5.

I am so paranoid. How'd you know? I mean, when you said UA would be good, a little pee came out. It scared me. Because when people say a team with no talent will be good, that means its probably going to be good. NOT. Maybe you should base an opinion as ourtrageous as that on fact. FACT- centerville is good. Fact- centerville has a very, VERY good shot at being number one, and finally FACT- next year, even though it doesn't happen in nature, the elks will run their horns through the tough, furry hides of the UA teddy bears and rip out all of their organs. What now?

[Dirty Thirty]

I fail to see how any of this stuff matters now. You can not make a legitimate prediction of next years state meet now. There is far to much that can happen between now and then. Both Hurricane Ike and Uncoordinated are just throwing could happens and paper results. We all know that none of that stuff matters. When next season is well under way can you even begin to predict who will be the top team in the state. Until then stop this stupid bickering. It is not worth the time or the effort to talk about now.

[crusader007]

I am so paranoid. How'd you know? I mean, when you said UA would be good, a little pee came out. It scared me. Because when people say a team with no talent will be good, that means its probably going to be good. NOT. Maybe you should base an opinion as ourtrageous as that on fact. FACT- centerville is good. Fact- centerville has a very, VERY good shot at being number one, and finally FACT- next year, even though it doesn't happen in nature, the elks will run their horns through the tough, furry hides of the UA teddy bears and rip out all of their organs. What now?

Alright stop with the cocky attitude. Yea, Cville will be good next year but to say that they have a very good shot at winning. But didn't you say that this year. Please in the near future do something more productive with your posts other than making everyone reading these start to dislike Cville in some way. Thank you.

[stxbomber999]

I fail to see how any of this stuff matters now. You can not make a legitimate prediction of next years state meet now. There is far to much that can happen between now and then. Both Hurricane Ike and Uncoordinated are just throwing could happens and paper results. We all know that none of that stuff matters. When next season is well under way can you even begin to predict who will be the top team in the state. Until then stop this stupid bickering. It is not worth the time or the effort to talk about now.

I completely agree. It is way too soon to be making guarantees about next year. There is alot of swimming that is going to happen between and the beginning of the next season. Personally, i say hold off until september to start making predictions, lets see how the long course season plays out.

[Hurricane Ike]

I fail to see how any of this stuff matters now. You can not make a legitimate prediction of next years state meet now. There is far to much that can happen between now and then. Both Hurricane Ike and Uncoordinated are just throwing could happens and paper results. We all know that none of that stuff matters. When next season is well under way can you even begin to predict who will be the top team in the state. Until then stop this stupid bickering. It is not worth the time or the effort to talk about now.

If you don't want to stoop to our so horrible level, keep your upright nose out of here. I can't think of anything more stupid than debating in a debate that you say should not exist in the first place. Clearly judging by your screen name you are an X sympathizer. Well, if you are scared of the big red freight train rolling from Columbus all through Ohio, you have reason to. Next season started the day after the state meet ended. It looks like SC and CVille have already started preparing while X is busy whining. We'll see about next season.

SC will triumph over CVille though due to the vast difference in relay speed, and SC's ability in the 100 fly. Schuttinger and Whitaker will go 1, 2 in the fly again next year taking away big point possibilites from one of CVille's better events. The relays will only increase the separation from the Elks. Face it Ohio. The Cardinals are the team of destiny.

[Fly4Fun]

If you don't want to stoop to our so horrible level, keep your upright nose out of here. I can't think of anything more stupid than debating in a debate that you say should not exist in the first place. Clearly judging by your screen name you are an X sympathizer. Well, if you are scared of the big red freight train rolling from Columbus all through Ohio, you have reason to. Next season started the day after the state meet ended. It looks like SC and CVille have already started preparing while X is busy whining. We'll see about next season.

SC will triumph over CVille though due to the vast difference in relay speed, and SC's ability in the 100 fly. Schuttinger and Whitaker will go 1, 2 in the fly again next year taking away big point possibilites from one of CVille's better events. The relays will only increase the separation from the Elks. Face it Ohio. The Cardinals are the team of destiny.

I remember a time when such brazen words were not looked kindly upon at St. Charles. But then again, when I was there we didn't have nearly the same success, but we weren't push overs either. Whatever the difference, I do not believe it is necessary to belittle your opponent. Something I remember most about my days as a swimmer are the personalities of those I competed against. I remember the arrogant jerks and the guys who were friendly but still competitive. It's a fine line and those who remain on the latter side are the ones that I was truly impressed with. It is possible to maintain the competitive fire while still respecting your opponents.

[thedutchman]

Below is a list of the returning swimmers for Centerville, X, UA, and SC. Bold type are the state swimmers and times; regular type are the district times (as that is the furthest the swimmer made it) and italics are the sectional time as that swimmer did not make it to the district meet. Some will swim other events next year and each team will have additional swimmers to replace the graduating seniors. Nonetheless this is where each team stands at the end of this season. It is not a guarantee of anything next year.

50 Nathan Spruill Jr Centerville :24.02
50 Brian Clark Fr Centerville :22.77
50 Tyler McDaniel Jr Centerville :23.00
100 Tyler McDaniel Jr Centerville :51.20
100 Austin Gregory So Centerville :48.69
100 Brian Clark Fr Centerville :49.78
100 Tyler McDaniel Jr Centerville :49.84
200 Austin Gregory So Centerville 1:45.60
200 Jay Hickey Fr Centerville 1:51.83
200 Ty Perkins Jr Centerville 1:42.93 1:42.34
500 Alex Osterhage So Centerville 4:53.18
500 Ty Perkins Jr Centerville 4:34.24 4:34.11
500 Kevin Aldrich Jr Centerville 4:59.92
Back Tyler Roberts Jr Centerville :55.41
Back Jay Hickey Fr Centerville :56.94
Back Sam Mitchell Fr Centerville :53.95 :54.66
Breast Kevin Aldrich Jr Centerville 1:03.86
Breast Travis Schieman Jr Centerville :59.43 :58.91
Breast Maxim Litvinov Jr Centerville :59.69 :59.70
Fly Merritt Sparks Fr Centerville :56.62
Fly Travis Schieman Jr Centerville :50.30
Fly Tyler Roberts Jr Centerville :52.64
IM Nathan Spruill Jr Centerville 2:08.56
IM Maxim Litvinov Jr Centerville 1:59.28
Diving 22 Ryan Slavik So Centerville 140.15
Diving Curtis Fowler Jr Centerville 289.40
Diving Evan Apt So Centerville 202.55

50 11 George Morrison Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :22.19
50 14 Max Bierman Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :22.36
100 9 Craig Gorsuch Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :47.93
200 4 Alex Miller Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:40.72 1:40.84
200 16 Jasper Gores So Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:46.31
500 2 Alex Miller Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 4:31.78 4:31.60
500 10 Robert Lawley So Cincinnati St. Xavier 4:40.87 4:43.11
500 15 Jasper Gores So Cincinnati St. Xavier 4:47.05
Back 21 Sean Drake Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :54.71
Back 13 Ian Kranbuhl Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :55.55
Back 18 Harrison Snyder So Cincinnati St. Xavier :56.26
Breast 4 Sam Lipari Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :57.88 :58.07
Breast 14 Gabriel Baumgartner So Cincinnati St. Xavier :59.87 1:00.18
Breast 19 Patrick Kimutis Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:00.66
Fly 11 Cole Dennis Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :53.47
Fly 14 Ryan Haas So Cincinnati St. Xavier :53.99
Fly 15 David Thomas So Cincinnati St. Xavier :54.10
Fly 18 Michael Conway Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier :54.95
IM 5 Sam Lipari Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:53.51 1:55.91
IM 10 Gabriel Baumgartner So Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:56.37 1:56.13
IM 13 Sean Drake Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:57.03 1:58.09
Diving 13 Stefan Resendes Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 350.75
Diving 21 Kevin Herbers Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 119.45
Diving 23 Joseph Lutz So Cincinnati St. Xavier 118.10

50 12 Cris Miranda Jr Upper Arlington :22.85
50 18 Charlie Coons So Upper Arlington :23.30
50 22 Adam Dodson Fr Upper Arlington :23.56
100 8 John Spangler Jr Upper Arlington :48.28
100 12 John Lowrey Jr Upper Arlington :49.26
100 22 Adam Dodson Fr Upper Arlington :52.53
200 12 Zach Kelch Jr Upper Arlington 1:43.08 1:44.64
200 13 John Spangler Jr Upper Arlington 1:43.22 1:43.82
200 8 Ryan Cutler Fr Upper Arlington 1:48.57
200 18 Sean Neri Fr Upper Arlington 1:53.78
500 4 Zach Kelch Jr Upper Arlington 4:34.27 4:36.66
500 4 Sean Neri Fr Upper Arlington 4:49.28
500 5 Ryan Cutler Fr Upper Arlington 4:50.12
Back 7 Alex Chin So Upper Arlington :55.54
Back 8 Danny Trotier Jr Upper Arlington :55.71
Back 14 Nick Eisenman Jr Upper Arlington :58.10
Back 16 Mikey Huntley So Upper Arlington :58.65
Breast 7 Adam Rabe So Upper Arlington 1:02.24
Breast 11 David Kuhar Jr Upper Arlington 1:03.77
Breast 15 Victor Pataky Fr Upper Arlington 1:05.36
Fly 14 Cris Miranda Jr Upper Arlington :52.89 :53.37
Fly 20 John Lowrey Jr Upper Arlington :53.57
Fly 12 Mikey Huntley So Upper Arlington :55.80
Fly 14 Nick Eisenman Jr Upper Arlington 1:02.19
IM 5 Adam Rabe So Upper Arlington 2:00.76
IM 9 Alex Chin So Upper Arlington 2:03.33
IM 11 Danny Trotier Jr Upper Arlington 2:03.77
IM 16 David Kuhar Jr Upper Arlington 2:07.02
Diving 1 Christian Holstein Jr Upper Arlington 484.45
Diving 10 Dan Schaefer Jr Upper Arlington 268.50
Diving 13 Patrick Nida So Upper Arlington 247.80

50 13 Mark Stechschulte Jr Columbus St. Charles :22.95
100 6 Sam Kocher Jr Columbus St. Charles :46.64 :47.15
100 8 Nick Schuttinger Jr Columbus St. Charles :46.85 :47.42
100 10 Jay Schuh Jr Columbus St. Charles :48.86
200 7 Sam Kocher Jr Columbus St. Charles 1:42.31 1:41.70
200 7 Orion Swanson So Columbus St. Charles 1:46.99
200 10 Kevin Coppel Jr Columbus St. Charles 1:49.18
200 13 Max Herath So Columbus St. Charles 1:50.96
500 6 Orion Swanson So Columbus St. Charles 4:52.70
500 7 Kevin Coppel Jr Columbus St. Charles 4:56.41
500 10 Matt Brown So Columbus St. Charles 5:01.76
500 15 Max Herath So Columbus St. Charles 5:10.39
Back 3 Sandy Whitaker Jr Columbus St. Charles :51.28 :50.36
Back 8 Jay Schuh Jr Columbus St. Charles :52.66 :53.14
Back 6 Zach Poltor Fr Columbus St. Charles :55.42
Back 11 Brian Willi So Columbus St. Charles :57.10
Breast 18 Corey Taylor Jr Columbus St. Charles 1:00.40
Fly 1 Sandy Whitaker Jr Columbus St. Charles :49.66 :49.48
Fly 2 Nick Schuttinger Jr Columbus St. Charles :49.74 :49.62
Fly 8 Brian Willi So Columbus St. Charles :53.84
Fly 14 Matt Brown So Columbus St. Charles :55.99
IM 12 Corey Taylor Jr Columbus St. Charles 1:56.91 1:57.80
IM 7 Zach Poltor Fr Columbus St. Charles 2:02.38

X and SC have shown that they know how to improve and drop time at the state meet. Probably that's the main reason that they are favored by many. But Centerville & UA could be right in the thick of it if they drop time.

[Hurricane Ike]

I remember a time when such brazen words were not looked kindly upon at St. Charles. But then again, when I was there we didn't have nearly the same success, but we weren't push overs either. Whatever the difference, I do not believe it is necessary to belittle your opponent. Something I remember most about my days as a swimmer are the personalities of those I competed against. I remember the arrogant jerks and the guys who were friendly but still competitive. It's a fine line and those who remain on the latter side are the ones that I was truly impressed with. It is possible to maintain the competitive fire while still respecting your opponents.

Fly you are absolutely right. Dirty Thirty's belittling of this discussion is simply inexcusable.

[stxbomber999]

Fly you are absolutely right. Dirty Thirty's belittling of this discussion is simply inexcusable.

What did dirty thirty say that was inexcusable?

[xbomberd08]

Fly you are absolutely right. Dirty Thirty's belittling of this discussion is simply inexcusable.

If I'm not mistaken he quoted your post, not anyone else's...just take it for what it's worth.

[ralphjones]

Who are the hot young swimmers coming in next year for X, Centerville & SC?

[Hurricane Ike]

If I'm not mistaken he quoted your post, not anyone else's...just take it for what it's worth.

That must be a mistake. How else do you account for his sermon on sportsmanship. Nothing I said was belittling. Dirty however is telling ME what I can't do. He is telling ME whats stupid. He is telling ME what is a waste of time. I am quite capable of making my own decisions without Dirty's obnoxious, condescending (synonym of belittling) posts.

The choirs out back. Save your preaching for them.

[thedutchman]

Who are the hot young swimmers coming in next year for X, Centerville & SC?

Don't know where he's going but the most impressive swims I've seen where from a Central District boy named Ronnie Bolden at age group championships. He went 21.7 in the 50 and 48.5 in the 100. That's smokin for an 8th grader.

[ZfishInMason]

I agree Dutchman... did you see the quads on that kid? Impressive!

Still, I'll vote for the four 12 year old boys from the Dayton Raiders. They swam 3:59.02 in the 400 medley relay and 1:37.50 in the 200 free relay. Not bad for kids in 6-7th grade!

[Sevens]

I believe St. X is picking up Ian Wooley from Countryside and Alex Burgess from Powell Crosley

Wooley
100 Back- 55.2
200 Back- 200.3
100 Fly- 54.8
200 Fly- 201.0
50 Free split- 23.4

Burgess
50 Free- 23.0
100 Free- 49.7
200 Free- 149.5
500 Free- 459.2

[OhioSWIM002]

It seems after the 500Free at YMCA Nationals, Perkins and Miller have put themselves on a higher more different level than all the distance swimmers in ohio, the title next year will be one or the other