The Road To State

[XdesIDtrans]

It starts.

I have plugged in entries for the top Division I teams and the top Division II team:

I.
St. Xavier
Moeller
Centerville
St. Charles

II:
University

Let me know if I have missed a team that has a legitimate chance to win state other than these teams and I can plug them in too.

1. University

Strengths: 50 Free, 500 Free, 200 IM, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley

Challenges: 100 Back, 100 Fly

Summary: Although I won't calculate a score this early (or based on seed times at that), if the seed times are to be believed, University has to be dissappointed that they were knocked down this year as they appear to be the top team in state. Also unfortunate is that due to their competition, it is likely their times will not be as fast as they might be if they were swimming against faster DI competition. Regardless University has the fastest swimmer in most categories relative to the other top teams in this review.

1. St. Xavier

Strengths: 200 Free, 500 Free, 100 Breast, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley, Diving

Challenges: 100 Back, 100 Fly, 200 Free Relay

Summary: Looks to be the team to beat in DI this year, though they are challenged by more teams than in years past. For the most part they are balanced.

2. Moeller

Strengths: 50 Free, 100 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay

Challenges: 500 Free, 100 Back, Diving

Summary: Moeller has a top swimmer in most events and in my opinion has the best chance at this point to beat X for State. A faster field favors Moeller vs X as this will pare down X's depth advantage.

3. Centerville

Strengths: 100 Back, 100 Breast, 100 Fly, Diving

Challenges: 50 Free, 100 Free, 200 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley Relay

Summary: Like Moeller, Centerville still has top swimmers in areas they lack depth. But whereas relays are Moeller's strength, Centerville will have to prove much better than their seed times to challenge X and Moeller for a State Title. Centerville fields 4 Divers as does X, but X's divers have scored higher so it is hard to say whether this will help Centerville at State.

4. St. Charles

Strengths: 100 Back, 100 Fly

Challenges: 200 Free, 500 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley Relay

Summary: The reigning state champions are a contender for the second year in a row, a feat usually exclusive to X in recent years. St. Charles like X has some depth, so while they don't always field top swimmers the way Moeller does in most events, they usually have a couple contenders. St. Charles will have to swim faster than their relay seed suggest to win state. They did last year.


I am not an expert however, and this mostly only based on seed times and rankings. I will have an update and a much better information after Districts are finished. However, if you have other teams I should keep track of, let me know now so that I can set them up. Thanks!

[Fly4Fun]

The relay seed times for St. Charles are generic times that are obviously slow for what St. Charles can and will actually do. All season St. Charles has put up faster times than their seed times in the three relays, so I wouldn't look too much into that.

[XdesIDtrans]

The relay seed times for St. Charles are generic times that are obviously slow for what St. Charles can and will actually do. All season St. Charles has put up faster times than their seed times in the three relays, so I wouldn't look too much into that.

Good point, I'm pretty sure they did that last year too. The update should be a lot more relevant.

[SwimFan23]

i think you have to give centervilles medley alot more credit than that...if moeller isnt stacking their relay centerville should beat it...also

is christian josephson gonna score points at state? cause he is there only legit flyer, also ...

st charles as many good BRers

and st charles relays are really really good...

[thedutchman]

I think your right XesIDtrans that University is probably the best team in the state. That said, assuming everyone steps up, this should be a very competitive state meet from the team scoring standpoint. Unlike last year where it was a 2 team meet, there looks to be several more players this time around. As things stand now XesIDtrans analysis looks solid, although I would include UA in the mix. In addition to Kelch and Huffman, they have a diver who may win.

One advantage SC has is the ability to swim second tier swimmers in their district relays. They did that last year. Because of the lack of depth in the Central District SC and UA for that matter can afford to unstack their relays in the District and still be assured of an automatic qualification spot. So look carefully at both teams relay personnel before you rely on the district time for projecting the finish in the state.

Under the new meet format teams that can rest one or more of their top swimmers during the prelim relays may have an even greater advantage. Remember, under the old system often the top swimmer only swam 2 events each day. Even though it was 4 total swims he had alot of rest between them. That won't happen this year. At this point it looks like only X and SC may be able to do that. 3 swims on Friday instead of 4 swims could mean the difference between top heat and consolation. That could impact the team scores as well. It will be interesting to see the coaching decisions.

Similarly, the lack of depth in the Central District may allow UA and SC to taper more swimmers for state. Traditionally, those that move up from their seed position are the swimmers who match or better their district time. X consistently does it. SC did it last year. Moeller didn't and underperformed last year. Perhaps that experience will work to their advantage this year.

Anyway, good luck to everyone. Hopefully, all swimmers and teams will perform to their potential and make the district and state meets very exciting.

[OhioSWIM002]

It starts.

I have plugged in entries for the top Division I teams and the top Division II team:

I.
St. Xavier
Moeller
Centerville
St. Charles

II:
University

Let me know if I have missed a team that has a legitimate chance to win state other than these teams and I can plug them in too.

1. University

Strengths: 50 Free, 500 Free, 200 IM, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley

Challenges: 100 Back, 100 Fly

Summary: Although I won't calculate a score this early (or based on seed times at that), if the seed times are to be believed, University has to be dissappointed that they were knocked down this year as they appear to be the top team in state. Also unfortunate is that due to their competition, it is likely their times will not be as fast as they might be if they were swimming against faster DI competition. Regardless University has the fastest swimmer in most categories relative to the other top teams in this review.

1. St. Xavier

Strengths: 200 Free, 500 Free, 100 Breast, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley, Diving

Challenges: 100 Back, 100 Fly, 200 Free Relay

Summary: Looks to be the team to beat in DI this year, though they are challenged by more teams than in years past. For the most part they are balanced.

2. Moeller

Strengths: 50 Free, 100 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay

Challenges: 500 Free, 100 Back, Diving

Summary: Moeller has a top swimmer in most events and in my opinion has the best chance at this point to beat X for State. A faster field favors Moeller vs X as this will pare down X's depth advantage.

3. Centerville

Strengths: 100 Back, 100 Breast, 100 Fly, Diving

Challenges: 50 Free, 100 Free, 200 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley Relay

Summary: Like Moeller, Centerville still has top swimmers in areas they lack depth. But whereas relays are Moeller's strength, Centerville will have to prove much better than their seed times to challenge X and Moeller for a State Title. Centerville fields 4 Divers as does X, but X's divers have scored higher so it is hard to say whether this will help Centerville at State.

4. St. Charles

Strengths: 100 Back, 100 Fly

Challenges: 200 Free, 500 Free, 200 Free Relay, 400 Free Relay, 200 Medley Relay

Summary: The reigning state champions are a contender for the second year in a row, a feat usually exclusive to X in recent years. St. Charles like X has some depth, so while they don't always field top swimmers the way Moeller does in most events, they usually have a couple contenders. St. Charles will have to swim faster than their relay seed suggest to win state. They did last year.


I am not an expert however, and this mostly only based on seed times and rankings. I will have an update and a much better information after Districts are finished. However, if you have other teams I should keep track of, let me know now so that I can set them up. Thanks!

I think you should but 200IM as one of centervilles strong points, they are the only team with three IMers under 2 minutes un tapered

[ImPartial]

I think you should but 200IM as one of centervilles strong points, they are the only team with three IMers under 2 minutes un tapered

That is a good point. StX also has three guys that could make IM finals.

I am surprised three of the top 8 swimmers in the IM chose other events. Logan Ware had a top-5 time in the IM and chose the 200 free instead and Schuttinger had a top-8 time but chose the 100 free where his current time would not put him in the top 16. Buchanan picked the 200 free over the IM also. According to the state psych, Centerville's three are 7/8/9th, good for 32 points. Add Ware/Schuttinger/Buchanan to the IM and Centerville drops to 10/11/12th for 18 points. According to the psych sheet, Centerville really benefits well from those choices. But that's three less IM'ers that StX Schwartz and Baumgartner have to beat, so StX benefits too.

[XdesIDtrans]

A lot of good points. While all relays swam slower than their seed times except X in the 200 Free (possibly because of Oak Hills), and Moeller in the 400, Centerville's relays look much more competitive now. If you consider the 50 Free times, it looks like they would beat X's 200 free relay which is th fastest right now behind Oak Hills.

I'm waiting on the Central Ohio results, but also of note is that, at least in the southwest, the times seem a little slower than last year.

[xbomberd08]

I'm waiting on the Central Ohio results, but also of note is that, at least in the southwest, the times seem a little slower than last year.

The top seeds in each event generally aren't as fast, but the reason times aren't as fast as you get down to the 8th and 16th seeds are because of the DI and DII split.

[Number1Spot77]

People also do not have to taper as early as last year which would explain slow times at sectionals this year vs last years. A lot of the fast kids were tappering for districts, so when sectionals came around they already had a week of resting and this year they had no rest.

[XdesIDtrans]

I'll be tracking Upper Arlington as well. It appears right now that with only SW times that Moeller holds an edge over Centerville. As someone mentioned that has a little to do with Centerville's strengths also being Xs but it also has a little to do with relays.

[Amazin']

The top seeds in each event generally aren't as fast, but the reason times aren't as fast as you get down to the 8th and 16th seeds are because of the DI and DII split.

Times usually aren't fast?? ha. Have we all met Eric Huffman? 20.3 and 44.6, with a 19.8 anchor leg...

Ouch to everyone in the 50 and hundred events.

Kelch also did post some pretty good times. 1:43.8 in 200, and 4:36.2 in the 500.

[echo13]

Times usually aren't fast?? ha. Have we all met Eric Huffman? 20.3 and 44.6, with a 19.8 anchor leg...

Ouch to everyone in the 50 and hundred events.

Kelch also did post some pretty good times. 1:43.8 in 200, and 4:36.2 in the 500.

I think he was referring to the second part of the quoted post about times being slower than years past in the SW district, not a shot at the central.

[Fly4Fun]

Times usually aren't fast?? ha. Have we all met Eric Huffman? 20.3 and 44.6, with a 19.8 anchor leg...

Ouch to everyone in the 50 and hundred events.

Kelch also did post some pretty good times. 1:43.8 in 200, and 4:36.2 in the 500.

Anyone think he has a shot to break 20?

When I was swimming UA guys loved to say the UA tapper was worth .5 seconds per 50.

[XdesIDtrans]

Update!

District Times are in (except University's 50 Free times for some reason).

The order has changed, and it is hard to believe that I overlooked Upper Arlington initially because they are definitely in the mix.

1. St. Xavier

St. Xavier has outperformed their seed times relative to other state contenders (as I guess I'll be calling the teams on this list) except for the 200 IM, 400 Free Relay, and 200 Medley Relay.


2. Upper Arlington

UA has the strongest relay times right now, but by a slim margin... they beat all of their relay seed times and the vast majority of their individual seed times. Eric Huffman leads a number of events among these teams.


3. University

University did not perform as well as their seed times suggested mostly in the relays relative to the other teams on this list. Regardless they are still very strong in the individual events.


4. Moeller

Moeller is edged out in relay times only by Upper Arlington, though I have reason to believe they underperformed in the 200 Free Relay which X leads right now. Moeller has the fastest 50s in this crowd and should retake the lead in that event when they are up against competition (like X was against Oak Hills). Moeller holds the 3rd position right now on the strength of their relays.


5. Centerville/St. Charles

St. Charles edges Centerville in the relays right now, but Centerville holds the edge in individual events...




I'm stll working on a way to calculate team scores this early, but even if I did, I think it would be pretty inaccurate until they start swimming in the same pools with good competition all around. Taper also makes a big difference.

[Fly4Fun]

Update!

District Times are in (except University's 50 Free times for some reason).

The order has changed, and it is hard to believe that I overlooked Upper Arlington initially because they are definitely in the mix.

1. St. Xavier

St. Xavier has outperformed their seed times relative to other state contenders (as I guess I'll be calling the teams on this list) except for the 200 IM, 400 Free Relay, and 200 Medley Relay.


2. Upper Arlington

UA has the strongest relay times right now, but by a slim margin... they beat all of their relay seed times and the vast majority of their individual seed times. Eric Huffman leads a number of events among these teams.


3. University

University did not perform as well as their seed times suggested mostly in the relays relative to the other teams on this list. Regardless they are still very strong in the individual events.


4. Moeller

Moeller is edged out in relay times only by Upper Arlington, though I have reason to believe they underperformed in the 200 Free Relay which X leads right now. Moeller has the fastest 50s in this crowd and should retake the lead in that event when they are up against competition (like X was against Oak Hills). Moeller holds the 3rd position right now on the strength of their relays.


5. Centerville/St. Charles

St. Charles edges Centerville in the relays right now, but Centerville holds the edge in individual events...




I'm stll working on a way to calculate team scores this early, but even if I did, I think it would be pretty inaccurate until they start swimming in the same pools with good competition all around. Taper also makes a big difference.

One thing I still think you are putting too much stock into early are the relay times. The deep schools probably are still swimming their B Line-ups for the relays and may use their A line ups for the District meets.

Right now I think the relay times are pretty meaningless.

[XdesIDtrans]

Okay, I've been messing around with numbers... I'll give you the details if you want, but since it is early these ratings don't mean everything and they only compare these teams. I'm working on a better version though.

RATING 1:
St. Xavier - 161
University - 124
Upper Arlington - 121
St. Charles - 111
Centerville - 101
Moeller - 92

RATING 2:
St. Xavier - 378
University - 321
Upper Arlington - 303
St. Charles - 280
Centerville - 263
Moeller - 241

I was close except for Moeller, I suspect that their faster swimmers might have more impact in the coming meets though...as will their relays. Though I think Fly is right, relay times don't mean too much right now.

[Amazin']

Okay, I've been messing around with numbers... I'll give you the details if you want, but since it is early these ratings don't mean everything and they only compare these teams. I'm working on a better version though.

RATING 1:
St. Xavier - 161
University - 124
Upper Arlington - 121
St. Charles - 111
Centerville - 101
Moeller - 92

RATING 2:
St. Xavier - 378
University - 321
Upper Arlington - 303
St. Charles - 280
Centerville - 263
Moeller - 241

I was close except for Moeller, I suspect that their faster swimmers might have more impact in the coming meets though...as will their relays. Though I think Fly is right, relay times don't mean too much right now.

the order seems right from how the teams did at their sectional. how'd you get the numbers though? (curious)

[xbomberd08]

RATING 1:
St. Xavier - 161
University - 124
Upper Arlington - 121
St. Charles - 111
Centerville - 101
Moeller - 92

RATING 2:
St. Xavier - 378
University - 321
Upper Arlington - 303
St. Charles - 280
Centerville - 263
Moeller - 241

The order seems about right thought I'd wonder where Mason would be in the mix and wouldn't be surprised if Moeller were in the top 3 instead of 6th. I also think St. Charles may very well be ahead of UA by State.

I'd look for some breakout swims at Districts or even a couple swimmers who fail to qualify or get DQ'ed in an event everyone though they would make.

[XdesIDtrans]

For the 1st rating I took the 10 most likely to score points in each event from each team and assigned them a score out of 10 for their position relative to the other 5 teams swimmers... 1st gets 10 pts, 2nd gets 9 pts, etc. This left the slowest 14 out and tended to give a little too much credit to the fastest swimmers but ensured that those most likely to score were the most likely to be counted.

For the 2nd rating, I basically put the 6 teams in a meet setting and applied the state scoring down the list which basically left the slowest 8 in each event out. This offered a way to compare the teams even though it probably gave a little bit too much credit for relays and depth.

I'm trying a third method that takes the lowest two times that qualified for state from last year (prelims and final), takes the district times of those 1 or 2 swimmers, and uses that as a cutoff for this years list. It is a slow process but might be done mid week if I find a lot of time (but don't count on it). At this point it seems silly to spend too much time doing more than the two superficial ranking methods since even the results from the much better third method would be superficial since I'd be using district times.

[XdesIDtrans]

Also, St. Charles had a guy scratch two events, but it wouldn't have changed my ranking scores in either case had he not scratched unless the guy had break out swims which is unlikely.

[XdesIDtrans]

Okay, one more thing... I didn't include diving, but I will say, without knowing Upper Arlington's scores, that it is unlikely to hurt St. X's position

[ImPartial]

I think you should but 200IM as one of centervilles strong points, they are the only team with three IMers under 2 minutes un tapered

Coaches/swimmers tend to target their taper more toward either sectional, district or state. Those that taper for sectional get their time drop at sectional and their seed time at district looks like it will qualify them for state. Those that taper for state may not swim very fast at sectional and gives the appearance they may not qualify for state. In the IM, Centerville's sectional seed times put them at 6/7/8th in the SW district. Now their district seed times put them at 9/10/12. That may appear as if they are on the bubble for making state. But I have to think their taper is going to start kicking in at district and their times should drop. Take out the automatic qualifiers in each district and these are the swimmers looking to qualify for the eleven at-large state berths:

5 Evan Schwartz Sr Cincinnati St. Xavier 1:59.44
6 Stephen Koch Sr Lakota West 2:00.77
7 Sean Drake Jr Cincinnati St. Xavier 2:01.27
8 Tyler Nuss Sr Fairfield 2:01.28
9 Maxim Litvinov Jr Centerville 2:01.31
10 Dan Glaser-Garbrick Sr Centerville 2:02.04
11 Tyler Torbet Sr Mason 2:02.34
12 Mark Gammell Sr Centerville 2:02.57
13 Patrick Foos Jr Cincinnati Moeller 2:02.92
14 Gabriel Baumgartner So Cincinnati St. Xavier 2:02.92
4 Billy Ross Jr Pickerington North 2:03.22

5 Zach Poltor Fr Columbus St. Charles 2:03.55
15 Ben Schneider So Cincinnati La Salle 2:03.61
6 Justin Shotwell Sr Columbus St. Charles 2:03.69
7 Dmitry Dolgov So Powell Olentangy Liberty 2:03.73
16 Andrew Keriazes Sr Springfield 2:03.84
6 Chase Hooley So Wooster 2:04.39
8 Danny Trotier Jr Upper Arlington 2:04.62
7 David Kloos So Cleveland St. Ignatius 2:04.90
8 Andrew Bartley So Akron Firestone 2:05.02
17 Matt McKee Sr Middletown 2:05.08

It may take a 2:00 to qualify. McKee swam a 2:00.28 a week ago, and I had read in another thread that he was tapering for state. I hope the Centerville swimmers can match their season-best times at district and the same for McKee. Those are 21 swimmers going after the 11 berths in the IM. And it's like that in every event. Whose sectional taper will hold, whose district taper hits just right, and whose state taper is just enough?

[thedutchman]

Recognizing that we have only finished week 1 of 3 weeks of swimming and that times will continue to drop, here is how the state meet would score out based on last week ends times.

X – 292
UA – 214
SC – 180
CENT – 171
MOE – 139

[EagleFan]

So Xavier is the heavy favorite to win title #30? Who will win Division 2?

[caswim]

So Xavier is the heavy favorite to win title #30? Who will win Division 2?

University easy win

[thedutchman]

So Xavier is the heavy favorite to win title #30? Who will win Division 2?

X better not look past SC. Their times yesterday were quite impressive. Expect them to score in all events except the 500 & diving. They will likely go 1, 2 in the fly; win the back; and Mai could win both the IM & Breast. It looks like no one will challenge their medley and the free relays should finish in the top 3. At this point it looks like it was last year, a meet between X & SC.

[stxbomber999]

X better not look past SC. Their times yesterday were quite impressive. Expect them to score in all events except the 500 & diving. They will likely go 1, 2 in the fly; win the back; and Mai could win both the IM & Breast. It looks like no one will challenge their medley and the free relays should finish in the top 3. At this point it looks like it was last year, a meet between X & SC.

True, but thier times suggest to me that they were fully tapered and this was thier main focus, so they may not be going these times next week, after all Ohio State has a much faster pool than canton. In the 50 and 100 free they have guys at 16 and 13 so there is no garantee they will score in those. Fly they look pretty good, but in back i still think Andrew abyesinghe will win it, he didnt put on any sort of fast suit at the SW districts. Also neither of their free relays will be in the top 3, in the 200 Moe Oak Hills and X went significantly faster, and in the 400 it was Moe UA and X. SC is good will be a challenge to beat but they dont have the depth to put up 3 top 3 relays.

[Number1Spot77]

X better not look past SC. Their times yesterday were quite impressive. Expect them to score in all events except the 500 & diving. They will likely go 1, 2 in the fly; win the back; and Mai could win both the IM & Breast. It looks like no one will challenge their medley and the free relays should finish in the top 3. At this point it looks like it was last year, a meet between X & SC.

You can not say it is going to be a meet between St. X and SC...You have to throw moeller in there. I dont know if you saw their district times but those were times of non tapered people...You can only expect those times to go down. Also the i dont think anyone will be able to stop moeller in the 2 free and 4 free relay. They can only improve in them.

[ImPartial]

True, but thier times suggest to me that they were fully tapered and this was thier main focus, so they may not be going these times next week, after all Ohio State has a much faster pool than canton. In the 50 and 100 free they have guys at 16 and 13 so there is no garantee they will score in those. Fly they look pretty good, but in back i still think Andrew abyesinghe will win it, he didnt put on any sort of fast suit at the SW districts. Also neither of their free relays will be in the top 3, in the 200 Moe Oak Hills and X went significantly faster, and in the 400 it was Moe UA and X. SC is good will be a challenge to beat but they dont have the depth to put up 3 top 3 relays.

A 5 percent drop is a decent drop for a taper, so don't expect to see additional 5 percent drops from people that got that at district. Someone that dropped from 50 to 47.5 from sectional to district just isn't going to be at 45.0 at state...unless they were already swimming 47 mid-season and they really are just starting their taper.

Abeysinghe did not look tapered at district, so you should see something for him at state. Remember, he went 1:55 IM at his league meet already. And Aaron Buchanan has a chance to win the 200 free at state when he tapers. Oops, forgot he didn't qualify in the 200 free. I still think that was a strange decision to swim the free when he just went 1:56 IM at his league meet. Had he swam a 200 free in competition this high school season prior to sectional?

[thedutchman]

SC is good will be a challenge to beat but they dont have the depth to put up 3 top 3 relays.

SC has more depth than any team other than X. Take a closer look at the personnel in SC's free relays. They will go significantly faster in the state meet. Just like last year, they will swim a different line up in the state meet.

[stxbomber999]

You can not say it is going to be a meet between St. X and SC...You have to throw moeller in there. I dont know if you saw their district times but those were times of non tapered people...You can only expect those times to go down. Also the i dont think anyone will be able to stop moeller in the 2 free and 4 free relay. They can only improve in them.

How do you know they werent tapered, they were all wereing blue 70s and were at their best times by alot, to me that suggests tapered. Also Miami is a much better pool than canton so there is no guarantee they will drop time. Dont be so sure of those relays either, mainly the 200 free. Xs relay had four guys who werent shaved or fully tapered, they held back on the starts, and will be wearing better suits next week. They had two guys go slower than they did flat start in the 50 and Will Lawley went his normal in season time. Also in the 400 once again they had 4 guys who werent shaved or tapered and will be in better suits next week. Also once again they had two guys go slower than they did in the individual. Yes moeller is definately the favorite to win those events next week, but you cant say they are unstopable.

Also about Moeller winning state, sorry but they have no shot. They dont have enough to go against X and SC. If you consider a good event as 25+ points, an ok event as 10-24, poor as 1-9, and bad as 0 then Moe has 2 good events (50, 100) 3 ok (200, IM, Breast) 1 poor (fly) and 2 bad (Back 500). X has 4 good (200, 500, IM, Breast,) 2 good (100, back) 1 poor (50) and 1 bad (fly). SC has 3 good (Fly, Breast, IM) 2 oks (200, Back) 2 poors (100, 50) and 1 bad (500). So just by number of scoring swimmers Moe would need alot of help to win. Also there is more room for most of moe's guys to move down than up.

[XdesIDtrans]

UPDATE

For the latest rankings, I simply scored the times as if they were at state, and added .5 for each qualifier that didn't place.

St. Xavier - 284
St. Charles - 233
Moeller - 215
Upper Arlington - 160.5
Centerville - 156.5

[stxbomber999]

SC has more depth than any team other than X. Take a closer look at the personnel in SC's free relays. They will go significantly faster in the state meet. Just like last year, they will swim a different line up in the state meet.

true i didnt consider if they will use the same lineups

[XdesIDtrans]

Centerville/UA

Centerville has the most room for improvement. They have 5 swimmers/divers who qualified but didn't score points. They also only have 1 first place swimmer and 3 in ninth, 1 in 7th. Centerville has the most entries at state other than X. Like Moeller Centerville did not make drastic time improvments at Districts. But they may prove to be better than their placing here shows them if times do start dropping more drastically with the taper.

Upper Arlington took quite a hit between sectionals and districts in my rankings because while they have depth, they only have the least swimmers in this group that qualified (in contrast to Centerville who has the most). UA however did not make the drastic drops that St. Charles did.

Moeller/St. Charles

Moeller is a powerhouse in the free relays which helped them stay close to St. Charles who is a powerhouse in the individual events though they also placed 1st in the medley relay. Moeller lost a little ground in individual events and St. Charles made amazing gains. St. Charles has the edge right now, but if Moeller's taper is timed differently and effects them later to reflect pre taper times Moeller very well may edge out St. Charles.

St. Xavier

St. Xavier is still the at top of this group. They did not really gain much or lose any ground at districts. With the most entries by far, X has plenty of opportunities to improve. X at this point has no top qualifiers as every other team in the mix does: 3 for UA, 2 relays for Moeller, 1 for Centerville, 3 individuals and 1 relay for St. Charles. X does have swimmers that will challenge for 1st place especially in the 200 and 500 free (events they dominate along with the 200 IM where every entry scores points at the moment).

[Paine]

How do you know they werent tapered, they were all wereing blue 70s and were at their best times by alot, to me that suggests tapered. Also Miami is a much better pool than canton so there is no guarantee they will drop time. Dont be so sure of those relays either, mainly the 200 free. Xs relay had four guys who werent shaved or fully tapered, they held back on the starts, and will be wearing better suits next week. They had two guys go slower than they did flat start in the 50 and Will Lawley went his normal in season time. Also in the 400 once again they had 4 guys who werent shaved or tapered and will be in better suits next week. Also once again they had two guys go slower than they did in the individual. Yes moeller is definately the favorite to win those events next week, but you cant say they are unstopable.

Also about Moeller winning state, sorry but they have no shot. They dont have enough to go against X and SC. If you consider a good event as 25+ points, an ok event as 10-24, poor as 1-9, and bad as 0 then Moe has 2 good events (50, 100) 3 ok (200, IM, Breast) 1 poor (fly) and 2 bad (Back 500). X has 4 good (200, 500, IM, Breast,) 2 good (100, back) 1 poor (50) and 1 bad (fly). SC has 3 good (Fly, Breast, IM) 2 oks (200, Back) 2 poors (100, 50) and 1 bad (500). So just by number of scoring swimmers Moe would need alot of help to win. Also there is more room for most of moe's guys to move down than up.


Sorry dude, but while Moeller will not really contend for the team title, they will run train in the free relays. They have unabashedly demonstrated that they plan to stack both and go for records. The swimmers are just getting into their taper. Expect fast times from Sanders, and I think Schwab will actually drop a little as he has the most talent of anyone on Moeller's team. The other members of the relays are quite strong and make Moeller the dominant favorite in both free relays.

[stxbomber999]

Sorry dude, but while Moeller will not really contend for the team title, they will run train in the free relays. They have unabashedly demonstrated that they plan to stack both and go for records. The swimmers are just getting into their taper. Expect fast times from Sanders, and I think Schwab will actually drop a little as he has the most talent of anyone on Moeller's team. The other members of the relays are quite strong and make Moeller the dominant favorite in both free relays.

Dont count out X on those relays. I agree Moeller is the favorite, but to declare them the state champions already isnt giving X enough credit. Will Lawley is capable of being just as fast, or faster than Sanders in both relays. And X has just as much to back him up as moeller does. I just believe that next week when X has the same suits as moeller the races will be alot closer. And what do you mean by going for records? Unless youre talking about school records, which im asuming they already broke at districts, they wont be close to anyother records. They're good, but not good enough to challenge the state records.

[xswimmer100]

Dont count out X on those relays. I agree Moeller is the favorite, but to declare them the state champions already isnt giving X enough credit. Will Lawley is capable of being just as fast, or faster than Sanders in both relays. And X has just as much to back him up as moeller does. I just believe that next week when X has the same suits as moeller the races will be alot closer. And what do you mean by going for records? Unless youre talking about school records, which im asuming they already broke at districts, they wont be close to anyother records. They're good, but not good enough to challenge the state records.

really? lawley just as capable as sanders on the relays? last time i checked, lawley has never broken 46 on an individual 100 free swim, how does that translate into him being FASTER!!!!!!!!!!!! than sanders on the relays. sanders has had a fanstastic season that has shown no signs of slowing down, regardless of him being fully tapered at districts or not. tapers can be thrown out the window, they are just creations to more mentally than physically prepare swimmers for meets. to completely diss sanders over unproven statements of lawley is quite egregious and disrespectful on your behalf. you should be ashamed of yourself.

[crusader007]

Sanders wasn't shaved...

[stxbomber999]

really? lawley just as capable as sanders on the relays? last time i checked, lawley has never broken 46 on an individual 100 free swim, how does that translate into him being FASTER!!!!!!!!!!!! than sanders on the relays. sanders has had a fanstastic season that has shown no signs of slowing down, regardless of him being fully tapered at districts or not. tapers can be thrown out the window, they are just creations to more mentally than physically prepare swimmers for meets. to completely diss sanders over unproven statements of lawley is quite egregious and disrespectful on your behalf. you should be ashamed of yourself.

Are you kidding me, you have no room to talk about disrespect or anything of the sort. Every post you have made on these forums has been a shot or an attack on someone on the forums or a swimmer on a team, mainly St. X. Let me just name a few: Albers isnt a good breaststroker, calling people out for their opinions, saying St. X cheated at GCLs, Pat Kimutus isn't a legit threat, and there are plenty more. Also say you my statements are egregious, lets look at some or your comments and how rediculous they actually are: St.X is the forth best team in the state, Moeller will win GCLs, Moeller will win Districts, Centeville will beat X at districts, Moeller will win all of the relays at Districts, and plenty more. Also saying Lawley can go as fast as Sanders; how is that disrespectful to him? I never took anything away from Sanders, i know he is a very good swimmer, but i have seen these two swim, and Will Lawley has always had the better taper. Now that doesnt mean he will beat Sanders, I'm just saying he is capable of it. But you know what pisses me off the most about you is how after you went on and on about how Moe will beat X at GCls, but when the meet came around and X trashed them you were nowhere to be found, you ran away and hid because you couldnt own up to the fact you were wrong. Also leading up to districts, when we were talking about the meet, where were you spitting out your nonsense about how Moe will win? You once again hid because you had nothing to say, but now that Moeller had a very good meet, you decide its time to come out of hiding, and start preaching how Moeller is god's gift to the swimming world. So tell me, do you still think Moeller is better than X, do you still think X is the 4th best team in the state, or are you finally going to admit you were wrong?

[xswimmer100]

Are you kidding me, you have no room to talk about disrespect or anything of the sort. Every post you have made on these forums has been a shot or an attack on someone on the forums or a swimmer on a team, mainly St. X. Let me just name a few: Albers isnt a good breaststroker, calling people out for their opinions, saying St. X cheated at GCLs, Pat Kimutus isn't a legit threat, and there are plenty more. Also say you my statements are egregious, lets look at some or your comments and how rediculous they actually are: St.X is the forth best team in the state, Moeller will win GCLs, Moeller will win Districts, Centeville will beat X at districts, Moeller will win all of the relays at Districts, and plenty more. Also saying Lawley can go as fast as Sanders; how is that disrespectful to him? I never took anything away from Sanders, i know he is a very good swimmer, but i have seen these two swim, and Will Lawley has always had the better taper. Now that doesnt mean he will beat Sanders, I'm just saying he is capable of it. But you know what pisses me off the most about you is how after you went on and on about how Moe will beat X at GCls, but when the meet came around and X trashed them you were nowhere to be found, you ran away and hid because you couldnt own up to the fact you were wrong. Also leading up to districts, when we were talking about the meet, where were you spitting out your nonsense about how Moe will win? You once again hid because you had nothing to say, but now that Moeller had a very good meet, you decide its time to come out of hiding, and start preaching how Moeller is god's gift to the swimming world. So tell me, do you still think Moeller is better than X, do you still think X is the 4th best team in the state, or are you finally going to admit you were wrong?

wrong? only my predictions were wrong. you cant fault a person for having opinions - these i will always hold to be right. God's gift to the swimming world - that's very pious of you stxbomber999. go spray your messages of piety over the multitude of churches that grace our nation - make some converts out there in the world. you have found your true mission in life - to be a missionary! congratulations! besides, for someone who can't spell "rediculous", that's quite ridiculous. A wise woman once said,''Stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself if you believe if it's going to work. That's why it's called a leap of faith." that's what i have done on these forums. in hindsight, is moe really the best team out there. i don't know. but i stopped thinking how ridiculous it was and took a leap of faith. there you go, i have just given you some advice, free of charge, for your missionary work.

i have been absent from these forums for a while, because i have been busy. i'm catching up today - lucky you stxbomber999! I haven't sat on this chair in a month, or something. thankfully, it still remembers my cheeks. you now have somebody you can throw your anger and pitiful attempts of sarcasm onto. i see you've wasted no time in attacking me. another wise woman said "if you smokin' rock cocaine and some skunky weed and that batch of basement crack, i swear to god i'm not insane." guess what, that woman was insane. and i've concluded the same about you stxbomber999. can missionaries be insane? is anybody else thinking terrorist? lol.

is moeller better than x, possibly? one more week to wait and see. is x the 4th best team in the state. perhaps i lowballed that, i'll give them 3rd. was i wrong - who cares. nevertheless, good luck swimmers. i hope you are able to make a lot of converts out there stxbomber999; i won't be one of them.

[Fly4Fun]

wrong? only my predictions were wrong. you cant fault a person for having opinions - these i will always hold to be right. God's gift to the swimming world - that's very pious of you stxbomber999. go spray your messages of piety over the multitude of churches that grace our nation - make some converts out there in the world. you have found your true mission in life - to be a missionary! congratulations! besides, for someone who can't spell "rediculous", that's quite ridiculous. A wise woman once said,''Stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself if you believe if it's going to work. That's why it's called a leap of faith." that's what i have done on these forums. in hindsight, is moe really the best team out there. i don't know. but i stopped thinking how ridiculous it was and took a leap of faith. there you go, i have just given you some advice, free of charge, for your missionary work.

i have been absent from these forums for a while, because i have been busy. i'm catching up today - lucky you stxbomber999! I haven't sat on this chair in a month, or something. thankfully, it still remembers my cheeks. you now have somebody you can throw your anger and pitiful attempts of sarcasm onto. i see you've wasted no time in attacking me. another wise woman said "if you smokin' rock cocaine and some skunky weed and that batch of basement crack, i swear to god i'm not insane." guess what, that woman was insane. and i've concluded the same about you stxbomber999. can missionaries be insane? is anybody else thinking terrorist? lol.

is moeller better than x, possibly? one more week to wait and see. is x the 4th best team in the state. perhaps i lowballed that, i'll give them 3rd. was i wrong - who cares. nevertheless, good luck swimmers. i hope you are able to make a lot of converts out there stxbomber999; i won't be one of them.


After reading this I believe my brain is now hemorrhaging... thanks...

Oh ya, the only way X comes in 3rd is if a few swimmers are sick and don't swim to potential or some really devestating DQ's. X is the heavy favorite going into the State meet and any team, St. Charles or Moeller or anyone will need some huge jumps in position to catch them. With the chance one of those two teams beats X.. I just don't see Xavier falling to third.

The closest team, St. Charles, has to somehow make up 51 points.

[stxbomber999]

wrong? only my predictions were wrong. you cant fault a person for having opinions - these i will always hold to be right. God's gift to the swimming world - that's very pious of you stxbomber999. go spray your messages of piety over the multitude of churches that grace our nation - make some converts out there in the world. you have found your true mission in life - to be a missionary! congratulations! besides, for someone who can't spell "rediculous", that's quite ridiculous. A wise woman once said,''Stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself if you believe if it's going to work. That's why it's called a leap of faith." that's what i have done on these forums. in hindsight, is moe really the best team out there. i don't know. but i stopped thinking how ridiculous it was and took a leap of faith. there you go, i have just given you some advice, free of charge, for your missionary work.

i have been absent from these forums for a while, because i have been busy. i'm catching up today - lucky you stxbomber999! I haven't sat on this chair in a month, or something. thankfully, it still remembers my cheeks. you now have somebody you can throw your anger and pitiful attempts of sarcasm onto. i see you've wasted no time in attacking me. another wise woman said "if you smokin' rock cocaine and some skunky weed and that batch of basement crack, i swear to god i'm not insane." guess what, that woman was insane. and i've concluded the same about you stxbomber999. can missionaries be insane? is anybody else thinking terrorist? lol.

is moeller better than x, possibly? one more week to wait and see. is x the 4th best team in the state. perhaps i lowballed that, i'll give them 3rd. was i wrong - who cares. nevertheless, good luck swimmers. i hope you are able to make a lot of converts out there stxbomber999; i won't be one of them.

Really, come on. Dont even try to turn that one around. You were the one that got on here every day preaching moeller's greatness, and trying to convince others to believe what you do, that is what being a missionary is, I never claimed X was the greatest thing ever, only that they are what they always are, the best in the GCL, SW, and a state title contender, so all that stuff you just went on and on about makes no sense at all, but keep trying maybe someday you'll think of a good arguement.

And your quote, ''Stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself if you believe if it's going to work. That's why it's called a leap of faith." All right lets take its advice. I said your comments on how Moe will beat X are ridiculous. So lets see, is it going to work? Well since X and Moe have been in 3 meets together and X has won all of them by a sizeable margin, i'd say no its not going to work.

You said I waisted no time in attacking you, well thats not really true. It depends on what you view as attacking, because what I say I did was defending my opinion when you decided to show up out of nowhere after a month and attack me first. You said everyone is allowed to have an opinion, and mine was that Lawley is capable of swimming as fast as Sanders, but you decided I wasnt allowed to voice my opinion without having you say I should be ashamed of myself. I want to honestly hear you say that you did not attack me first, can you even dispute this?

And you said X is 3rd. Ok then who is 1 and 2, and please support this with something I can see or review, such as a stat or fact.

[xswimmer100]

Really, come on. Dont even try to turn that one around. You were the one that got on here every day preaching moeller's greatness, and trying to convince others to believe what you do, that is what being a missionary is, I never claimed X was the greatest thing ever, only that they are what they always are, the best in the GCL, SW, and a state title contender, so all that stuff you just went on and on about makes no sense at all, but keep trying maybe someday you'll think of a good arguement.

And your quote, ''Stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself if you believe if it's going to work. That's why it's called a leap of faith." All right lets take its advice. I said your comments on how Moe will beat X are ridiculous. So lets see, is it going to work? Well since X and Moe have been in 3 meets together and X has won all of them by a sizeable margin, i'd say no its not going to work.

You said I waisted no time in attacking you, well thats not really true. It depends on what you view as attacking, because what I say I did was defending my opinion when you decided to show up out of nowhere after a month and attack me first. You said everyone is allowed to have an opinion, and mine was that Lawley is capable of swimming as fast as Sanders, but you decided I wasnt allowed to voice my opinion without having you say I should be ashamed of myself. I want to honestly hear you say that you did not attack me first, can you even dispute this?

And you said X is 3rd. Ok then who is 1 and 2, and please support this with something I can see or review, such as a stat or fact.


A wise man once said, "You don't know who you're dealing with! Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever!" another wise man said, "Honey... I don't like being told what to do." i refuse to indulge your wishes of stat or facts. i will not give you the benefit of having your orgasm over some new stats or facts trying to explain who the top 2 teams in the state are.

for the record, i just pointed out inconsistencies in your testimony, backed up by the fact that lawley individually has never gone under a 46 while sanders has gone below that.

to the most laughable portion of your comment now. i attacked you first? please!! ever since i have made my first post on yappi, you have always tried to incite some controversy. you have always been following closely on my trail. i just got back from court; i filed a restraining order against you. are you addicted to controversy? because if you are, maybe i can give you the phone number for the respective agents of paris hilton or lindsay lohan. another (but different) wise man said, "Life sucks. Your life sucks more than most." OBVIOUSLY. I am finally understanding your madness and insanity stxbomber999. i didnt know patients were allowed on computers in mental institutions. i hope the nurse doesn't catch you.

i made a comment about swimming with regards to lawley and sanders. you turned it into some huge vendetta against me by citing everything i have said. relevance? i see none. A wise man once said (same as one of the other wise men) that "It's a pretty simple string of logic actually: you make people miserable, then they do what you want them to do, because then the misery goes away." you can't do that with me stxbomber999, focus your efforts on another yappi postee.

[stxbomber999]

A wise man once said, "You don't know who you're dealing with! Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever!" another wise man said, "Honey... I don't like being told what to do." i refuse to indulge your wishes of stat or facts. i will not give you the benefit of having your orgasm over some new stats or facts trying to explain who the top 2 teams in the state are.
for the record, i just pointed out inconsistencies in your testimony, backed up by the fact that lawley individually has never gone under a 46 while sanders has gone below that.

to the most laughable portion of your comment now. i attacked you first? please!! ever since i have made my first post on yappi, you have always tried to incite some controversy. you have always been following closely on my trail. i just got back from court; i filed a restraining order against you. are you addicted to controversy? because if you are, maybe i can give you the phone number for the respective agents of paris hilton or lindsay lohan. another (but different) wise man said, "Life sucks. Your life sucks more than most." OBVIOUSLY. I am finally understanding your madness and insanity stxbomber999. i didnt know patients were allowed on computers in mental institutions. i hope the nurse doesn't catch you.

i made a comment about swimming with regards to lawley and sanders. you turned it into some huge vendetta against me by citing everything i have said. relevance? i see none. A wise man once said (same as one of the other wise men) that "It's a pretty simple string of logic actually: you make people miserable, then they do what you want them to do, because then the misery goes away." you can't do that with me stxbomber999, focus your efforts on another yappi postee.

Thank you for this sentence right here, you have just proven my point about every single one of your post right here. You won't give facts to support your claims, because you can't. There are not stats or facts that would suggest X is the 3rd best team in the state. Everything you have ever said has been nothing but an attempt to shoot down X and its swimmers. You have never come up with a decent arguement because you never back it up with a real reason, you have maid some good points but you dont support them, and saying "Moeler is better than X because I hate X" doesnt count as an arguement.

Your comment about Sanders being better than Lalwey isnt what started this, it was what you said about me, and I quote "to completely diss sanders over unproven statements of lawley is quite egregious and disrespectful on your behalf. you should be ashamed of yourself." this was the first thing you posted on this thread, and it was totally uncalled for, and to quote you again "you cant fault a person for having opinions - these i will always hold to be right" i had an opinion but you decided to contradict yourelf and attack me for having on opinion.

[Paine]

Dont count out X on those relays. I agree Moeller is the favorite, but to declare them the state champions already isnt giving X enough credit. Will Lawley is capable of being just as fast, or faster than Sanders in both relays. And X has just as much to back him up as moeller does. I just believe that next week when X has the same suits as moeller the races will be alot closer. And what do you mean by going for records? Unless youre talking about school records, which im asuming they already broke at districts, they wont be close to anyother records. They're good, but not good enough to challenge the state records.

I still don't think you understand the amount of talent Moeller has yet to tap. No one on their relays are fully tapered or shaved. Schwab might be the most under-rated swimmer in the state and it would not surprise me if he actually outsplit Sanders in the end. As for records, I personally do not think they will break the state records, but they do have a legitimate shot. Furthermore, I was just transferring my own impressions from Moeller. To me, it seems like they would like to break some records. They already beat the 2 district freestyle relays records, including the 400 free which was set by St. X in 2001, the year they won the national title. The state records are hardly safe.

Unfortunately, I cannot leave my post with this statement because it appears that xswimmer100 has reared his ugly side once again. I say ugly side because I still hold out hope that in his heart of heart, he possesses some inherent goodness, some intrinsic value. Mr. xswimmer100, I feel obligated to point out your egregious (I believe you stole that word from me in my earlier posts actually. Check my first one) statements of hypocrisy, for a wise man named [B]Jesus[B] said, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense, make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation."


First, you start crying when people are no longer able to stand your inflammatory posts and fight back. Yet, if you look back as far as mid December, you will notice that you regularly take unwarranted stabs at amazin' and stxbomber999 (and you even said I was behind the times). Fortunately, I am kind and will attribute these outbursts to your own insecurities and feelings of inadquacies regarding your personal opinions. You just seem to feel that disagreements about your opinions tranlate into personal, virulent attacks. However, in this instance, you cannot fall back on the grace of your insecurities. Stxbomber999's response was solely in response to your statement that he "should be ashamed" for suggesting that W. Lawley is faster than Sanders. He has a perfectly legitimate reason for feeling attacked and responded in kind. Now that we have established that you initiated the personal attacks, it is even more appalling to look back upon your post from December 16: "i would like to hear stxbomber999 respect other peoples opinions. this is a forum dedicated to discussion and NOT shooting down everyone elses opinion b/c it does not agree with yours." Perhaps one should listen to others' opinions before accusing others of not doing the very same. You suggested that Mr. stxbomber999 lives in a mental institution and should live in shame merely because he gave an opinion, a concept which you claim to hold dear, with which you apparently disagree. If you always react this violently to different opinions perhaps you should heed the advice of a wise man named Abraham Lincoln: "The time comes upon every public man when it is best for him to keep his lips closed."

Personally, I was rather affronted when you tried to act like your bombastic statements about GCL were "leaps of faith" that were taken out of context and too seriously. However, it is even more disturbing that you hold no personal accountability for your posts for you said, "wrong? only my predictions were wrong. you cant fault a person for having opinions." You are correct in that holding opinions is not grounds for faulting someone. However, you can be judged for the intelligence of said opinions and the evidence with which you support it. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR PREDICTIONS. Try telling you math teacher that you just took a "leap of faith" on an answer and that you should not be docked points for having an opinion. Yet, according to your post, you wish to operate in a relativistic world in which each opinion, no matter how logical or far-fetched it is, is equal and relevant. Unfortunately, this only leads to a world governed by the "Might makes right" philosophy and is quite unhealthy. As a wise man named Winston Churchill said, "Responsibility is the price of greatness.” If you wish to be great, xswimmer100, take responsibility for your mere "predictions." Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that you took a leap of faith when you predicted Moeller would win GCL. In fact, you said on January 19th that "i am 100% thouroughly convinced that moeller will win the GCL meet" (sic). 100% means you do not even have a sliver of a doubt. That hardly sounds like a leap of faith. You even said on December 18th "what's the point in having st x swimmers competing in off events. mark my words, ST X WILL LOSE if that is the case. not only will their best swimmers swim relays, but their BEST events." Mark my words is pretty strong language for a leap of faith. As you can see, your tenure on yappi has been filled with more inconsistencies than Barry Bonds' grand jury testimonial.

I believe your biggest hypocrisy is also your most recent. You pleaded on January 29th to the swirling cloud of resentment beginning to surround you that "we've been through this, so please shut up and lets talk about swimming." You are not currently talking about swimming but are once again simply agitating. I wish you would see the error of your ways, repent, and move on, but, frankly, this seems unlikely. As a wise man named Bejamin Franklin once said, "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." You are certainly very good at remaining stupid. In fact, I would love to know who are the wise men whom you quote so often now. I have never heard the quotes before and they sound...interesting. In closing, I remind you of great opportunities at gossiprocks.com, and I must also say that your writing has improved tremendously since our first sparring. I believe I will end with an apt description of yourself with a good quote from another wise man named Lord Byron, the British, Romantic poet:
"Thou feeble tenant of an hour, Debased by slavery, or corrupt by power; Who knows thee well must quit thee with disgust, Degraded mass of animated dust! Thy love is lust, thy friendship all a cheat, Thy smiles hypocrisy, thy word deceit!"

[stxbomber999]

the sooner you spell made (not maid), Moeller (not moeler), Lawley (not Lalwey), and argument (not arguement) the better.

The only thing you have left is correcting typos? I guess it only once again proves you have nothing of real inteligence to back up what you say with. Maybe you shoud try and stick to attmepting to talk about swimming.

Paine (by the way i respect the amount of effort that went into that last post, nice job) do you really think they can get that 400 free record. Its a 3:01.80, thats almost a second per swimmer. Sanders is good but i dont think he has a 43 in him.

[Paine]

No I do not think that Moeller is quite fast enough to set the record since Sanders can't carry the relay by himself, but Moeller thinks they can. And if they think they can break the record, who knows what they ultimately churn out.

[stxbomber999]

No I do not think that Moeller is quite fast enough to set the record since Sanders can't carry the relay by himself, but Moeller thinks they can. And if they think they can break the record, who knows what they ultimately churn out.

Well X thinks they can win that relay, so who knows what they ultimately churn out.

[Paine]

Touche. It should be a great race when you throw in St Charles and Upper Arlington too.