Gmc 2009

[BigSwimFan]

With all the talk on here being dominated about X, Moeller and Centerville I wanted to get people's thoughts on the GMC meet this year.

Returning champs Mason lost a lot of Seniors last year, but are still looking pretty good since they have a huge team and can probably score quite a few per event.

Oak Hills has opportunities to win some relays and quite a few events with Schnur and Rhodenbaugh, but they are lacking in depth.

Lakota West has a good duo, Hart and Koch, which will win 4 events and McNamara which will be competitive in the 200 and 500 Free events.

The meet is going to come down to who is swimming what events and who can scoop up the most points with their 2nd, 3rd and 4th swimmers.

Predictions? Comments?

[Amazin']

With all the talk on here being dominated about X, Moeller and Centerville I wanted to get people's thoughts on the GMC meet this year.

Returning champs Mason lost a lot of Seniors last year, but are still looking pretty good since they have a huge team and can probably score quite a few per event.

Oak Hills has opportunities to win some relays and quite a few events with Schnur and Rhodenbaugh, but they are lacking in depth.

Lakota West has a good duo, Hart and Koch, which will win 4 events and McNamara which will be competitive in the 200 and 500 Free events.

The meet is going to come down to who is swimming what events and who can scoop up the most points with their 2nd, 3rd and 4th swimmers.

Predictions? Comments?

You summed it up pretty good right there.

Yet, i would consider Fairfield also. They are really young and have been improving alot so far this year. Lead by Tyler Nuss, Andrew Adams, Carter Adams, John Carter, and Eric Lee. They can swim every event. Unlike some of the other teams.

[BigSwimFan]

I thought about Fairfield for a little bit, but I don't see them really winning any events and not placing that many. The thing that will help them a bit is the meet is now scoring 16 places. But I think that will help Mason more than anybody.

I know there won't be times coming out of this meet like GCL's or GWOC, but I think this will be a fun meet to see what happens between those top teams. Should be very competitive. Can't wait to see the physch sheets.

[fast4you]

Mason will win again easy. They are too deep for the other teams. I agree that West will win 4 events but after that they will not score much. Oak Hills runs into the same problem. Fairfield has a little more depth but will not be able to compete due to the lack of any individual top four finishers and their relays will not be in the top 3. Sycamore is a lot like Fairfield.

[Amazin']

remember, Fairfield did win best of the west with their "lack of depth"

[fast4you]

I think they have some decent depth just no great swimmers. Besides best of the west is a joke of a meet. Fairfield and Oak hills are the only 2 schools with any talent.

[floaties101]

This lack of depth thing is disappointing becase in large meets like clasic west can get sixth, beating even mason, but then will be close to getting 3rd in conference.

I think that Fairfield has more depth then oakhills and west but don't have the event winners they need to beat them.

[BigSwimFan]

I'm gonna have to go with Mason because they will have enough scoring in multiple events to win the meet. I don't think Fairfield will be much to worry about. I don't think that coach knows how to train his swimmers and I am not impressed by what the boys are doing. The only reason they were anything last year was because of Cory Stewart.

Once all these teams get to Districts West will be ahead of all them followed by Oak Hills and then maybe Mason.

[fast4you]

High School coaches don't matter. Any swimmer worth anything practices with a club team not the high school.

[thedutchman]

High School coaches don't matter. Any swimmer worth anything practices with a club team not the high school.

Tell that to the X guys and Jim Brower.

[fast4you]

I guess that would be the one exception.

[ThrashMetal666]

Yeh, I wouldn't thow stones at someone or jump to any conclusions about people who practice with their HS clubs, or go as far as to think that they all aren't good; because that isn't true..there are some pretty good ones that only swim for their high schools...

[fast4you]

That is true but they are the exception. I don't mean to degrade anyone who doesn't swim for a club team.

[ImPartial]

This lack of depth thing is disappointing becase in large meets like clasic west can get sixth, beating even mason, but then will be close to getting 3rd in conference.


How big is the team trophy for sixth place at the classic?

[Bomber1990]

I'm gonna have to go with Mason because they will have enough scoring in multiple events to win the meet. I don't think Fairfield will be much to worry about. I don't think that coach knows how to train his swimmers and I am not impressed by what the boys are doing. The only reason they were anything last year was because of Cory Stewart.

Once all these teams get to Districts West will be ahead of all them followed by Oak Hills and then maybe Mason.

Wow... what a tool.

[floaties101]

How big is the team trophy for sixth place at the classic?

Bigger then the eighth place one mason got!

[ImPartial]

Bigger then the eighth place one mason got!

Actually, Mason gets a first place team trophy. It has been years since anyone other than Ursuline and Centerville have done that on the girls' side.

Lakota's trophy was the same size that Franklin got for 44th place. I guess in your mind, you just think it is bigger! How much space in Lakota's trophy case will it occupy :rolleyes: ...more than in Franklin's?

[floaties101]

That is not the point. The point is that the west guys beat mason and as a matter of fact every other GMC team. I am not saying that west will win GMCs, but think about who is going to score more at districts and state.

[BigSwimFan]

Phsych sheet comes out tomorrow for this meet and once that does I believe we will all know that Mason will win this meet on both the boys and girls side. I saw the results from the a meet on Friday where Fairfield lost to Mason. Looking at some of those times I don't see how Fairfield is going to be any competition for Mason, Oak Hills or Sycamore. Also Relays are a big thing and Mason and Lakota West relay teams are going to be way faster and Fairfield will be lucky to get top 3 in any relay.

[Swimmerman5428]

GMC psych sheets keeps on getting delayed

Should be out today

[ImPartial]

According to the meet info, the format has changed from previous seasons. Now they are allowing four swimmers per team in each event and they are scoring 16 places instead of 12. Comparing scoring to last season:

place / 2009 points / 2008 points
1 20 16
2 17 13
3 16 12
4 15 11
5 14 10
6 13 9
7 12 7
8 11 5
9 9 4
10 7 3
11 6 2
12 5 1
13 4 0
14 3 0
15 2 0
16 1 0

Most places receive four more points than last year. But an eighth place finish this year is worth six more points than last year. Seventh and ninth get five more points.

Relays are worth double, so last place (tenth) gets 14 points compared to 6 points last year. With a couple last place relay finishes, Colerain and Hamilton should be able to double their best ever point totals!

[fast4you]

Why is there still no psych sheet posted? ANYONE know?

[BigSwimFan]

psych sheet finally up. looks like Mason is going to run away with this meet. they might not win a single event, but they are going to win solely on depth. when did they change the format of the meet so that they score 16 and 4 per event. west is going to win quite a few events, but does not have the depth to beat mason. hopefully there will be some good races to watch.

[ImPartial]

This lack of depth thing is disappointing becase in large meets like clasic west can get sixth, beating even mason, but then will be close to getting 3rd in conference.

I think that Fairfield has more depth then oakhills and west but don't have the event winners they need to beat them.

Based on the psych sheet, Lakota West should do much better than at the classic. They should be fighting it out with Oak Hills for fourth place, maybe even third depending on how all the second tier swimmers perform. Rough scoring projected by the psych sheets is:

Mason 400
Sycamore/Fairfield 300
Lakota West/Oak Hills 250

Athlete of the year probably comes down to who wins the 50 free. Oak Hills should be close to beating the league record in the 200 medley and 200 free relays. And Rhodenbaugh is projected to win the breast and 50 free. But if Rhodenbaugh does not win the 50 and Schnur does, that opens the door for Hart or Schnur to score top points.

[floaties101]

Suprised at any of the results?

[Amazin']

Suprised at any of the results?

How about the Oak Hills guys. Schnur's 50 free on the individual and fly and anchor splits were fast. Also, Rhodenbaugh in breast? maybe thats his second event instead of the 100 free? Finally Yeggy. the third for the 200 free relay is dropping time.. this makes them very dangerous come state time

[fast4you]

Rhodenbaugh and some kid i have never heard of had a great race in breast. Rhodenbaugh won the medley for them with a 26 split in the breast leg. Everyone on this site seems to forget about them in the relays at state. The times at GMC were on par if not faster than GCL's which was good to see. However I understand that X didn't swim all its A guys in A events. Koch's 500 looked extremely easy I expect him to be under 4:40 at districts and then who knows.

[Swimmerman5428]

that kid was Dereck Harmon from fairfield. Ya it was a great race Luke's pullouts got him ahead every time but Dereck was so quick on top of the water, but in the end Dereck couldnt catch him.

[ImPartial]

Athlete of the year probably comes down to who wins the 50 free. Oak Hills should be close to beating the league record in the 200 medley and 200 free relays. And Rhodenbaugh is projected to win the breast and 50 free. But if Rhodenbaugh does not win the 50 and Schnur does, that opens the door for Hart or Schnur to score top points.

Wow, like I predicted, the top point scoring came down to the 50 free where Schnur beat Rhodenbaugh.

From the GMC meet info:

http://www.swimmeet.com/meets/gmc09/meet_information.pdf

GMC SWIMMER OF THE YEAR AWARD:
will be awarded to the individual earning the most points in the GMC championship swim meet. Swimmers earning points in relay events will receive 1/4 of the team points earned as a member of the relay.

Here are the top scorers:

60 points: Jason Schnur: 1st 50 free (league record, pool record), 1st 100 free, 1st 200 free relay (league record, pool record), 1st 200 medley relay (pool record)

57 points: Luke Rhodenbaugh: 2nd 50 free (also broke league record), 1st breaststroke, 1st 200 free relay, 1st 200 medley relay

tie 55.5 points
Michael Hart: 1st 200 free, 1st 100 fly, 3rd medley relay, 4th 400 free relay
Stephen Koch: 1st 200 IM, 1st 500 free, 3rd medley, 4th 400


Schnur gets four first place finishes and sets five records. Athlete award goes to Michael Hart. I think they must have brought in some French figure skating judges from the olympics to compute the final scoring. Schnur did not mount the advertising campaign that Hart did, so that might have made the difference:

www.MikeHartSwims.com

The only race they were in the water at the same time was on the medley relay, where Schnur had a faster split on the fly leg.

[ImPartial]

Suprised at any of the results?

One of the surprises is the constant underestimation of Mason (and Sycamore and Fairfield and Oak Hills) from a certain poster :)


They may have a decent showing on the top 20 but like the previous guy said it is not compleatly accurate. They might not even win GMCs let alone come in 4th at districts. Remember their relays are not going to be as good this year.


Well mason is worse than last year and so are their relays. With teams like Fairfield and Oakhills taking points away from the non-club team swimmers, which they have a ton of, West could pull the upset.


It will be a good battle for second between West and Oak Hills who are in two similar situations, 4 good people and two good relays.

After all the talk talk talk, the results were:

415 Mason
341 Sycamore
284 Fairfield
273 Oak Hills
260 Lakota West
211 Lakota East

West was not battling for second, but rather fourth or fifth. Oak Hills certainly has two good relays, taking two firsts. Sycamore's top 2 were 1st/2nd, Mason 2nd/3rd, Fairfield 3rd/4th, West 3rd/4th.


Yes if all stays the same mason should win but you give them too much credit. 9-10 people that will score is a little bit of a strech. They don't really have any big scoreing threat besides Supronos who might not even win.


Mason had 22 different people score at the meet. If you add just Mason's top six scorers together with their relays they outscore West 263-260:

Supronas (32), Kolwyck (31), Freds (28), Rice (28), Hanson (25), Torbet (25), medley (28), 200 (32), 400 (34)

One of the surprises happened before the meet started. For some reason, the Fairfield coach used Adams time from the GMC meet last year as his seed time this year in the 500 (4:46.56). That gave him the top seed in lane 4. And he looked good for the first half of the race, but fell off after that for a fifth place finish at 4:54.

[*swim_observe_love*]

I'm gonna have to go with Mason because they will have enough scoring in multiple events to win the meet. I don't think Fairfield will be much to worry about. I don't think that coach knows how to train his swimmers and I am not impressed by what the boys are doing. The only reason they were anything last year was because of Cory Stewart.

Once all these teams get to Districts West will be ahead of all them followed by Oak Hills and then maybe Mason.

you are extremely wrong... the coach is only there for so much. you cant go out there and make them swim thier hearts out...they have to want to adn i think they are doing quite fantastic. they have all this young talent and in the years to come, they will showcase those talents to an even bigger level than they already are....besides Cory Stewart can't swim an entire relay by himself....Carter and Andrew Adams are absolutely sweet boys and AMAZING swimmers and talent can only take you so far...they work extremly hard for what they have

[*swim_observe_love*]

i think that the fact that mason has so many swimmers and host the GMCs adn a lot of other meets is why they keep getting swimmers of the year...Matt McKee,(middletown) an excellent swimmer is totally overlooked as well as Dereck Harmon (fairfield) because they don't come from a school that is as largely known for their swimming....

[Aviator]

what about sycamore!? nobody has talked about them all year and they beat fairfield, oak hills and lakota easily. sycamore beat mason and lakota in all the relays!!! better watch out for sycamore at district and state or your going to be sorry. hancher had some great races and so did keefe.

[stxbomber999]

a 3:18, 1:32, and 1:40 doesnt make you a top contendor at State

[fast4you]

Sycamore scored with depth not with State caliber talent. Their relays did swim well. But the two individuals you talk about didn't even swim well enough to make state so I wouldn't hype them all that much.

[floaties101]

With all this hype about confernce I think we need to focus on the real reason why mason won. They have the depth that no one else has, and especilly with that new entry and scoring rule. Four entries and scoring down to sixteen only widened the gap between the teams with lots of people and the teams with just a few really good swimmers. I mean it is just not right that mason won and did not win a single event and sycamore came in second with only one event champion. What about oakhills?!?! They dominate two relays win three individual events, one of which they took 1 2 3, and come in a distant third. That is an impressive performance that should carry over to sectionals and even districts. All the other "high" scores for mason will not score nearly as well at those meets because it takes more than just decent swimmers to score well. I am not saying that supronos, kolwick, and maybe rice won't do well at districts, but it won't compare to the damage oakhills can do. That 2 free relay could maybe win state which is more then any one else in the gmc could do.

Btw that swimmer of the meet was an interesting choice. What put hart past than schnur and luke and even Koch who swam an identical meet? And I looked at the website, it was funny but I think it was for recruiting not advertising hahaha.

[Aviator]

a TEAM is more than 2 INDIVIDUALS. a TEAM is everyone that swims including those that dont score. INDIVIDUALs win events but a TEAM wins the meet. if you were more TEAM oriented maybe you would have a bigger happier TEAM. all you talk about is how good two INDIVIDUALS are and how the rest of your TEAM sucks at the league meet. WAH WAH WAH, sycamore and mason won because they have a bigger TEAM. you cant wait to get rid of all the slow kids on your TEAM so the focus can be on a couple INDIVIDUALS at district and state. wresting and track and all the other INDIVIDUAL sports are like that too. two wrestling state champions dont bring home the TEAM trophy at league sectional district state because its about the TEAM. figure that out and maybe your TEAM will grow over the years.

[ZfishInMason]

With all this hype about confernce I think we need to focus on the real reason why mason won. They have the depth that no one else has, and especilly with that new entry and scoring rule. Four entries and scoring down to sixteen only widened the gap between the teams with lots of people and the teams with just a few really good swimmers. I mean it is just not right that mason won and did not win a single event and sycamore came in second with only one event champion. What about oakhills?!?! They dominate two relays win three individual events, one of which they took 1 2 3, and come in a distant third. That is an impressive performance that should carry over to sectionals and even districts. All the other "high" scores for mason will not score nearly as well at those meets because it takes more than just decent swimmers to score well. I am not saying that supronos, kolwick, and maybe rice won't do well at districts, but it won't compare to the damage oakhills can do. That 2 free relay could maybe win state which is more then any one else in the gmc could do.

Btw that swimmer of the meet was an interesting choice. What put hart past than schnur and luke and even Koch who swam an identical meet? And I looked at the website, it was funny but I think it was for recruiting not advertising hahaha.

Don't worry about it... in 4 or 5 years, when Mason's grass roots swim PROGRAM gets the swimmers who started out with their club team at 6yrs old to the HS level, there won't be an argument at all. Mason will have both the depth and the individual talent to make this year's GMC scoring look like a nailbiter. The future of Mason swimming is extremely bright.

[*swim_observe_love*]

boy dont u lecture me about team adn individuals i know more than u will ever know about TEAMS and individuals ur sorry butt will never know any true talent and will never be good at team or individual sports adn we have a lot of talent on OUR team but i was just mentioning a few as an example...

[*swim_observe_love*]

a TEAM is more than 2 INDIVIDUALS. a TEAM is everyone that swims including those that dont score. INDIVIDUALs win events but a TEAM wins the meet. if you were more TEAM oriented maybe you would have a bigger happier TEAM. all you talk about is how good two INDIVIDUALS are and how the rest of your TEAM sucks at the league meet. WAH WAH WAH, sycamore and mason won because they have a bigger TEAM. you cant wait to get rid of all the slow kids on your TEAM so the focus can be on a couple INDIVIDUALS at district and state. wresting and track and all the other INDIVIDUAL sports are like that too. two wrestling state champions dont bring home the TEAM trophy at league sectional district state because its about the TEAM. figure that out and maybe your TEAM will grow over the years.

placing third is not sucking...u would know all about sucking now wouldn't u?????????

[*swim_observe_love*]

what about sycamore!? nobody has talked about them all year and they beat fairfield, oak hills and lakota easily. sycamore beat mason and lakota in all the relays!!! better watch out for sycamore at district and state or your going to be sorry. hancher had some great races and so did keefe.

but its not the relays that just matter...its everything combined..

[Aviator]

placing third is not sucking...u would know all about sucking now wouldn't u?????????

floaties101 has been posting for months about how good lakota will be at district/state. he thought lakota/oak would be 2/3 at gmc and they end up fifth. third at gmc is pretty good...much better than 4/5. floaties101 cant wait til the spotlight is on their top-2. fairfield did a great job at gmc and should beat lakota again this week at sectional.

[*swim_observe_love*]

all i ask for is some respect for fairfield and recognition for the people that are exceptional, and work hard.... and not to mention the so called "little people" (middletown :D)

[floaties101]

Swimmer of the meet was decides by NSCA power points from the individual events, no relays. Hart must of won with better times.

These so called 2 man teams have more than just 2 good people. Oakhills took 123 int the 50 and you don't break records in two relays with 2 people. West took 1 3 in the 500 and hart's younger brother should swim well at districts.

So Aviator have fun with your "happier" team while oak hills and west pass you up at districts and state, which you can ask anyone is more important. And the predictions of GMCs were before the anouncement of the new scoring, which greatly helped the deep teams and hurts the not so deep teams. I could see you preaching TEAM for soccer or football but swimming. In big meets to score in the top 10 you need four to five good people. Ex. Beavercreek, west, oakhills. Where will your "happier" team place?

[Aviator]

Swimmer of the meet was decides by NSCA power points from the individual events, no relays. Hart must of won with better times.

These so called 2 man teams have more than just 2 good people. Oakhills took 123 int the 50 and you don't break records in two relays with 2 people. West took 1 3 in the 500 and hart's younger brother should swim well at districts.

So Aviator have fun with your "happier" team while oak hills and west pass you up at districts and state, which you can ask anyone is more important. And the predictions of GMCs were before the anouncement of the new scoring, which greatly helped the deep teams and hurts the not so deep teams. I could see you preaching TEAM for soccer or football but swimming. In big meets to score in the top 10 you need four to five good people. Ex. Beavercreek, west, oakhills. Where will your "happier" team place?

you are still thinking as an INDIVIDUAL and not as a TEAM. since you have never won a big meet like gmc, you don't get to stand on deck with 60 boy/girl swimmers and celebrate. ive done that a couple years back. IF you come in 4th at district, how many people will be jumping up and down on deck getting pictures taken with a trophy????

when you get to state, how many of your 30 TEAMmates will be cheering you???? but look at stx, they have 60 TEAMmates cheering them on. they know what its like to be a TEAM. in big meets its only important to the 4 guys that are there. i bet your TEAMmates dont care about you cause they will be sitting at home playing videogames during district and state. for 50 out of the 60 people, being league champ is much more important than what the other 10 people do when they get to state.

[ImPartial]

And the predictions of GMCs were before the anouncement of the new scoring, which greatly helped the deep teams and hurts the not so deep teams.


You guys are funny. A month ago, projected scoring based on the old system and the times on gmcsports.com were:

230 Mason
200 Oak Hills
190 Lakota West
180 Sycamore
180 Fairfield

If you use that 12-place scoring with the meet results this year, this is how it would have scored:

256 Mason
224 Sycamore
201 Oak Hills
184 Fairfield
181 Lakota West

So you can see that Mason would still be in first place and Lakota West would still finish fifth no matter what scoring was used. It does appear to have made a difference with Oak Hills’ placement.

Sycamore made the biggest jump compared to where they were a month ago. Some of that was in relay finishes, but they just had a lot of improvement in their swim times across the board. Lakota West was the only team that scored fewer points than projected from January.

[floaties101]

you are still thinking as an INDIVIDUAL and not as a TEAM. since you have never won a big meet like gmc, you don't get to stand on deck with 60 boy/girl swimmers and celebrate. ive done that a couple years back. IF you come in 4th at district, how many people will be jumping up and down on deck getting pictures taken with a trophy????

when you get to state, how many of your 30 TEAMmates will be cheering you???? but look at stx, they have 60 TEAMmates cheering them on. they know what its like to be a TEAM. in big meets its only important to the 4 guys that are there. i bet your TEAMmates dont care about you cause they will be sitting at home playing videogames during district and state. for 50 out of the 60 people, being league champ is much more important than what the other 10 people do when they get to state.

There you go about that team thing again. Since when do you need 50-60 people cheering for you at districts. I'm sure you had fun winning that trophy two years ago but swimming is really just an individual thing, with the exception of relays. If you want to worry about team scores go to x or moeler.


Those scores show that no matter how you slice it west had no real chance. I guess I just had false confidence in the production of the lower tier of swimmers. There is nothing a team atmosphere would have done to stop that. The team amosphere between west and east is pretty good though, but they can't swim together in the meet. Btw watch out for east in the upcoming years they have a lot of young talent.