Southwest District Classic

[Amazin']

The classic psych sheets are up on swimmeet.com.

Event Winners? Predictions?

[Xbomber098]

St. X has shown that even when teams throw on fast suits they can still win. I put my money on x to have a lot of top finishers, and win a bunch of the relays.

[stxbomber999]

I think X should win all 4 relays just because at this meet swimmers are allowed to swim in all of them, so Lawley and Columbus will probably be on all four relays

[Xbomber098]

I think the relays should be good races, the 400 free relay should be very interesting to watch, Moeller and X are going to be battling it out in that relay, and in the 200 free I wouldnt count Oakhills out of the race. As for the overall outcome of the meet, I think X is going to come out on top, due to the depth of the team, and the fact that they are defending their home turf.

[ElksSWIM2010]

dont you think that centerville will come up with some competition on the medley relays especially the 400medley

[stxbomber999]

I think the 200 medley will be closer than the 400 medley, just because guys like Lawley, Columbus, and Lipari are better in the 100s than they are in the 50s, but i do think it will be close, but i still think X will get the win

[ElksSWIM2010]

well on paper centerville is faster and swimmers like gammell litvinov and perkins are better at the 100 than the 50

plus woudnt lawley have to swim back? since there is like no one else meaning he wont have the opportunity to anchor

i think the 400 will be closer

[stxbomber999]

Yes Lawley will have to swim back on the 200, but Schwartz can swim a 100 back just as fast as him, so Lawley will most likely be anchoring the 400 and how is Centerville petter on paper it even between back and breast, fly cville wins, but not by as much as X in free

[White_Men_Cant_Jump7]

I think X should win all 4 relays just because at this meet swimmers are allowed to swim in all of them, so Lawley and Columbus will probably be on all four relays

I think x will not win all of the relays. They definitely have a shot at winning all of them but there are other teams that are probably going to win certain relays. For example i would put my money on Moeller winning the 4 medley and maybe the 4 free. Centerville has a very good shot at winning the 200 medley over x. AS for the 200 free, that one is always up for grabs. X will most likely come out on top in that.

[Xbomber098]

i have to agree. The 400 medley will go to x. all of the guys on that relay are a lot faster at 100's than 50's. It will be a good race though.

[ElksSWIM2010]

how? mark gammell has gone a 53 this year...

and schieman a 51 low compared to columbus a 53high?

and perkins had split a 47 this season

[floaties101]

Alright we know the medlys will be a race between cville and x, and the free btwn x and moeler but what is it going to take to make it back top 8 and who do you think will get those spots?

[stxbomber999]

how? mark gammell has gone a 53 this year...

and schieman a 51 low compared to columbus a 53high?

and perkins had split a 47 this season

When did Gammell go a 53 and when did schiemen go a 51 low, because according to swimmeet.com theyre at 54.3 and 51.6 ( and dont bring in some club team time were they were rested or something, were only comparing what theyve done in the highschool season) and when did perkins split a 47 because the fastest I found him at is a 48, also with Schieman swimming fly cville's breaststroker only goes a 1:00 so what i said about it being even after breast would be wrong X would actually be ahead. (if they have gone faster in the high school season than what swimmeet.com says, i would love to know were i could find out their real time are)


Right now according to the top times from cvilles and Xs websites it Gammel 54.3 and Schwartz 54.6 in back, Lipari 59.4 and Litinov 100.4, schieman at 51.6 and Columbus at 53.8, and freestyle if you go by relay splits its Lawley at 46.3 and Perkins at 48.0 but if you look a flat start Lawley is 47.3 and Perkins either hasn't done one yet or hasn't gone faster than a 50.54 which is 20 in the SW district

so if you look at this its Cville by .3 after back, X by .7 after breast, cville by 1.5 after fly, and X by .2 at the end, so on paper it is X that looks better (these are times from swimmeet.com, and x's and cvilles websites)

[crusader007]

What about Moeller's 400 Medley Relay? It should be just as fast as Cville and St X (Back- Koenig, Breast- Albers, Fly- Sanders, Free- Krone)

Moeller will most likely do very good in every relay because unlike other meets where you cannot swim all relays, in the Classic you can so that would be something to think about...

[BackAgain122]

Are those times from Wyoming right ?

[crusader007]

I was thinking the same thing, times like those usually don't go as unnoticed especially from a DII school. Are they real or are they just trying to get high seeds in the meet for better placement/competition?

[OhioSWIM002]

actually litvinov goes a 59.14

[stxbomber999]

when did he do that, because i didnt see that on swimmeet.com or centervilles website?

[ElksSWIM2010]

makos in early december

[crusader007]

Shaved and tapered...yes he did

[ElksSWIM2010]

rested

[crusader007]

Shaved and rested sorry

[stxbomber999]

Also I thought i mentioned when comparing the 2 teams, that i didnt really care about times they had when they were suited up and rested, only high school times, but if cville is resting and putting on fast suits then i guess that would be important, but other wise its still X 59.4 and cville 100.4

[ElksSWIM2010]

centerville isnt resting so i guess we lost...right

[stxbomber999]

no you just said cville looks better on paper, so i just tried to dispute that, but paper never really ment much to me, so they still have a chance to win, its just i think X will

[crusader007]

Shave or no shave, Taper or no taper, this meet is still going to be a really fast one considering the level of competition, energy in the meet, and the fact that most wear some type of fast suit. This meet still doesn't determine the rest of the year like most might think but it will give a good insight or preview to what people do under pressure/motivation for the first time this year.

[xbomberd08]

Shave or no shave, Taper or no taper, this meet is still going to be a really fast one considering the level of competition, energy in the meet, and the fact that most wear some type of fast suit. This meet still doesn't determine the rest of the year like most might think but it will give a good insight or preview to what people do under pressure/motivation for the first time this year.

'nuff said

[Swimmerman5428]

why are people wearing fast suits for this meet it doesn't matter for districts or states

[stxbomber999]

yeah i never understood that either, but some people always do

[WrongPerson]

why are people wearing fast suits for this meet it doesn't matter for districts or states

because they can?

[OhioSWIM002]

so...what about the other events ...matchups

(besides relays lol)

[Xbomber098]

since all i have to base these remarks off of are the qualifier times in the 400 IM 500 free and 1650 i cant know if these are true. First in the 500 free i think x can go 1, 2 in the 500. Both Miller and Columbus have been training hard all season, and in a race i don't doubt that they will pull through. However, both of them are also swimming the 400 IM that night, so they will be hurting going into the 500. I think the race in the 400 IM is between Albers and Buchannon. They aren't in the same heat, but i expect both of them will be going for the meet record. Finally, in the mile i see it as a battle between Miller, Columbus, and Perkins for the win there. Again it all comes down to who wants it more.

[DiveCoach]

For the diving, for the boys, you are probably talking about Grainger with Meier and Sergeant toss-up for second and third. For the girls, you are probably talking Elkins then Korchinski with a toss-up for third among several others. I would place money on Edwards or Helwagen.

[ElksSWIM2010]

i think that any event that buchanon and abeysang are in...they will win...

Even Andrew in the breastroke events

[xbomberd08]

i think that any event that buchanon and abeysang are in...they will win...

Even Andrew in the breastroke events

So are they going to tie in the events they are both entered in? ;)

[BigSwimFan]

since all i have to base these remarks off of are the qualifier times in the 400 IM 500 free and 1650 i cant know if these are true. First in the 500 free i think x can go 1, 2 in the 500. Both Miller and Columbus have been training hard all season, and in a race i don't doubt that they will pull through. However, both of them are also swimming the 400 IM that night, so they will be hurting going into the 500. I think the race in the 400 IM is between Albers and Buchannon. They aren't in the same heat, but i expect both of them will be going for the meet record. Finally, in the mile i see it as a battle between Miller, Columbus, and Perkins for the win there. Again it all comes down to who wants it more.


With Albers not in that final heat it is going to be very difficult for him to beat Buchannon in the 400 IM. Plus I have not seen a lot of impressive swims from Albers lately to show me that he is ready to win this event.

With Perkins and Vigar not swimming the 400 IM Columbus and Miller are going to have a race if they want to win that. I'm looking forward to those on Saturday night.

Some other races I'm looking forward to is the 200 Fly. I believe Hart from West won that event last year. I think the 200 IM is going to be very competitive just to make finals this year.

Should be some great swims this weekend.

[crusader007]

I agree, not in just those events but by the looks of things this is going to be a really fast meet. Even though some teams entered their swimmers in club times that they shouldn't be entered in determining some good position and some bad positions that some people should be seated higher in. We will see where people are at this weekend not how they will end up in the end of the season but what we will see with actual competition.

[crusader007]

I think the best race of the weekend is going to be the 100 Fly.

- Hart (50.97)
- Sanders (51.79)
- Glaser Garbrick (51.68)
- Schieman (51.03)
- Murphy (51.88)

All these times are from this year already, all really close and will most likely be faster since they are all swimming against each other. It will most likely come down to who has the longer arms to hit the wall first or just overall best finish. Hines from Taylor could also be in there close behind them being a 52.72 this year.

[stxbomber999]

how many of those time are rested or tapered and wearing fast suits? I agree it will be a good race, but i don't know if they will all be faster?

[BigSwimFan]

Should be a great race, but I doubt they will go much faster than that. Most of those times have to be from a rested/shaved meet.

[crusader007]

Yes that is true but if you think about it, if all were done rested or with fast suits, they should all be around the same times and push each other to go faster but yes good point. Another event is the 100 breast. Albers, Lipari, Schieman, Litvinov, Kincaid, and now Abeysinghe. That should be a very good race to watch along with others.

[thedutchman]

Does anyone know if there is a webcast of the meet?

[OhioSWIM002]

200breast should be good as well

[BigSwimFan]

Does anyone know why teams swim at the sites they do? Why does Centerville and St. X get to swim at Miami University when they have other sites that are closer to their high schools. Why does Lakota West go out to Countryside when Mason is clearly closer?

Just a random thought.

I think overall every race at finals is going to be fun to watch. Both consol. and final heats will be very competitive.

[White_Men_Cant_Jump7]

who do you think will win each event? Predictions?

[Amazin']

What about Moeller's 400 Medley Relay? It should be just as fast as Cville and St X (Back- Koenig, Breast- Albers, Fly- Sanders, Free- Krone)

Moeller will most likely do very good in every relay because unlike other meets where you cannot swim all relays, in the Classic you can so that would be something to think about...

there is going to be more than 3 teams to watch in the 4 med relay.
Wyoming, Beavercreak, definately have to be in the same conversation with St. X, Centerville and Moeller.

I don't think there is a team in the city that can keep up with the lead off of Buchanon's back, and Abeysinghe's breast. Plus with decent swims out of the flyer and freestyler, you could see a big win.

As for wyoming, (even though the times seem a little fast) fischer back, profitt's breast, murphy's fly, are going to be up challenging the lead also. It would come down to a young guy trying to hold on

[floaties101]

what about the sprint races? Does x have a sprinter to beat koenig or the oakhills duo? That should be a good race.

Also what are some records that will be taken down?

400 Im
500 free
200 back
200 fly?

[Amazin']

what about the sprint races? Does x have a sprinter to beat koenig or the oakhills duo? That should be a good race.

Also what are some records that will be taken down?

400 Im
500 free
200 back
200 fly?

currently? no. Since lawley is not in the 50. But Will is in the 100 (considering it a sprint)

400 IM - I'd give a 80% chance it is broken by a few seconds by Buchanan
500 free - 0%, doubt it. it would have to be a best time by a lot for the field
200 back - 5% that buchanan will break a possible 3rd record. would need to be another best time, but it will be closer than the 500 would be
200 fly - I'd give a 50% chance. it could be a toss up between Buchanan and Hart.

[ImPartial]

I put my money on x to have a lot of top finishers, and win a bunch of the relays.

I think X should win all 4 relays just because at this meet swimmers are allowed to swim in all of them, so Lawley and Columbus will probably be on all four relays

How much money did you lose betting on the X relays? 3rd, 3rd, 4th, DQ.

Alright we know the medlys will be a race between cville and x, and the free btwn x and moeler

Although, for all the talk, Centerville did not do any better, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th.

Congrats to Moeller on three impressive relay wins plus a close second. And Congrats to Wyoming on 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd.

[xbomberd08]

Moeller had some great relays...should be good GCL, District, and State meets.

[thedutchman]

How good is the SWC at predicting the district finish? This year's top 5 are
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 465
2 Cincinnati Moeller 379
3 Centerville 311
4 Cincinnati Wyoming 253
5 Beavercreek 236

In the recent past, the top 5 finishers at the SWC have been

SWC 08
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 672
2 Centerville 372
3 Cincinnati Moeller 356
4 Mason 291
5 Cincinnati Turpin 213

SWC 07
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 836
2 Beavercreek 266
3 Mason 255
4 Cincinnati Sycamore 224
5 Centerville 201

SWC 06
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 589
2 Cincinnati Turpin 275
3 Lakota East 274
4 Mason 241
5 Cincinnati Moeller 211

SWC 05
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 520
2 Centerville 353
3 Cincinnati Turpin 310
4 Cincinnati Sycamore 236
5 Beavercreek 201

For the same years the following is the district finish:

District 08
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 425
2 Mason 251
3 Cincinnati Moeller 236
4 Centerville 217
5 Cincinnati Sycamore 121

District 07
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 445
2 Centerville 173
3 Mason 162
4 Beavercreek 147
5 Cincinnati Moeller 125

District 06
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 430
2 Mason 175
3 Cincinnati Turpin 158
4 Lakota East 144
5 Cincinnati Moeller 126

District 05
1 Cincinnati St. Xavier 387
2 Centerville 228
3 Cincinnati Turpin 187
4 Cincinnati Sycamore 140
5 Cincinnati Elder 116

So it would seem that other than StX, this meet does not dictate the order of the district meet finish. That's good news to Centerville.

[xbomberd08]

I believe that classic favors the teams with more depth and the district meet favors the teams with faster swimmers at the top because of the more limited entries and number of events for the district meet.

[stxbomber999]

How much money did you lose betting on the X relays? 3rd, 3rd, 4th, DQ.



Although, for all the talk, Centerville did not do any better, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th.

Congrats to Moeller on three impressive relay wins plus a close second. And Congrats to Wyoming on 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd.

haha yeah i didnt really see that coming, i guess i overestimated X in some places, and underestimated moeller, and Wyoming?!? who saw that coming?

[msjega]

I agree too though moeller was rested clearly and all wearing fast suits so putting a rested team up against non rested teams doesn't show how well they do later on.

[crusader007]

I hope you are joking

[ElksSWIM2010]

guess ur right...centerville isnt that good oh well...next year

[Xbomber098]

I agree too though moeller was rested clearly and all wearing fast suits so putting a rested team up against non rested teams doesn't show how well they do later on.

Please!!!!! Moeller was in no way rested for this meet. I know all of the guys on their team, and they had been working hard all last week up until classic. Yes, the fast suits did help, but they were not in any way rested. I give them a huge congrats on how they swam this weekend. They swam like champs, and impressed everyone. They are without a doubt one of the top two teams in the state right now. In my opinion, it is Moeller vs. St. X for the state title.

[Amazin']

haha yeah i didnt really see that coming, i guess i overestimated X in some places, and underestimated moeller, and Wyoming?!? who saw that coming?

i saw it. thank you.. ha

I agree too though moeller was rested clearly and all wearing fast suits so putting a rested team up against non rested teams doesn't show how well they do later on.

but to think that Moeller was rested? really now.
1) Moeller doesn't even practice as a team.
2) Majority of the good swimmers swim for the Marlins, who have not stopped their hard training from break.

[BigSwimFan]

Majority of Moeller's swimmers do swim for the Marlins and I know that some of them didn't practice on Friday. I know it's only one day, but they had to be rested in some way. If they weren't rested then when they do taper and shave I expect to see some ridiculous fast times at District/State.

How about some of those races? The 200 Free was fun to watch. Everybody playing mind games and Vigar just taking over in the 3rd 50. Michael Hart showing he is the best butterfly swimmer around winning the 100 and 200.

The greatest thing all weekend was seeing X not win a single relay. I heard that they had won all 4 relays for the past 7 years and this year they didn't win any. The big reason X won this meet was their depth. That depth isn't going to help them that much at Districts as they won't get that many qualifiers to Districts with other teams being faster. I don't know if Moeller is going to win, but it should be a good race.

[stxbomber999]

I still think theyre going to be okay for Districts, according to swimmeet.com as of Jan 13 X has atleast 4 guys in the top 20 in the SW in most events, (only 1 in the fly and 3 in back) and thats with guys like LAwley Columbus Miller Albers and I'm sure a few others who are in many events that they wont swim

[Amazin']

I still think theyre going to be okay for Districts, according to swimmeet.com as of Jan 13 X has atleast 4 guys in the top 20 in the SW in most events, (only 1 in the fly and 3 in back) and thats with guys like LAwley Columbus Miller Albers and I'm sure a few others who are in many events that they wont swim

Yes, at the smaller meets they will be fine, where they can get 3 or 4 people in every event and just be able to win by numbers. Yet, remember people. We also predicted not just one win in relays at classic, but a clean sweep, winning them all.

The past few years, Moeller tries to sneak up on people, but with the recent results from the Classic, they have taken a front seat with us (St. X) right now for the top spot at Districts, and State.

[xswimmer100]

I still think theyre going to be okay for Districts, according to swimmeet.com as of Jan 13 X has atleast 4 guys in the top 20 in the SW in most events, (only 1 in the fly and 3 in back) and thats with guys like LAwley Columbus Miller Albers and I'm sure a few others who are in many events that they wont swim

Not a chance. St X is not ok for the rest of the season. At this point, edge is given to Moeller at Districts. Their domination in the relays is remarkable, not to mention the 50 and 100 free where they can put up 4 guys in the top 8 at districts. Moeller will lose some ground in 200 free and get pounded by st x in the 500. both teams kind of lack in backstroke. big edge to x in the 100 breast with lipari, schwartz and baumgartner. moeller can only seriously contend with albers. x will take a hit in the 100 fly. moeller's depth with sanders, josephson and foos will outscore st x. 200 im edge is given to x once again. i would take lipari and schwartz scoring more points, despite the fact that albers will win and if koenig swims, he is a strong contender. however, the ground lost on the relays and the 50 and 100 free is way too much for x to overcome. everyone talks about depth for st x. fact of the matter is this, st x's supporting cast is not as good this year as it has been in the past. believe it or not, 5 great swimmers from moeller (krone, koenig, sanders, albers and schwab) will overtake 4 great swimmers from x (lawley, columbus, miller, lipari) and a weak supporting cast of about 5-7 people.

[stxbomber999]

Not a chance. St X is not ok for the rest of the season. At this point, edge is given to Moeller at Districts. Their domination in the relays is remarkable, not to mention the 50 and 100 free where they can put up 4 guys in the top 8 at districts. Moeller will lose some ground in 200 free and get pounded by st x in the 500. both teams kind of lack in backstroke. big edge to x in the 100 breast with lipari, schwartz and baumgartner. moeller can only seriously contend with albers. x will take a hit in the 100 fly. moeller's depth with sanders, josephson and foos will outscore st x. 200 im edge is given to x once again. i would take lipari and schwartz scoring more points, despite the fact that albers will win and if koenig swims, he is a strong contender. however, the ground lost on the relays and the 50 and 100 free is way too much for x to overcome. everyone talks about depth for st x. fact of the matter is this, st x's supporting cast is not as good this year as it has been in the past. believe it or not, 5 great swimmers from moeller (krone, koenig, sanders, albers and schwab) will overtake 4 great swimmers from x (lawley, columbus, miller, lipari) and a weak supporting cast of about 5-7 people.

You make some good points, but I still think X will win districts by a similar score to the Classic.

Event by event i looks like this:
200- Lawle Miller and Columbus are 1,2,3 in the district with Gores in position to score (maybe be in the top 8) vs. Krone who will most likely be top 8 but cant possibly beat all 4 of them, so heavy advantage to X

200 IM- Albers is the best between both teams right now, but Lipari are both top 5 in the disrtict Schwartz with Baumgartner and Drake possibly scoring a few points as well so once again pretty big advantage X

50- Its Sanders Koenig and Schwab vs Louis and Schoenling, obvious advantage Moeller, but not as big as the 200 IM

100 fly- Moeller dominates X over this one, Sanders will score big and Moe has some guys who will score a few points as well, but Moe's advantage in this doesnt come close to Xs advantage in the 500

100 free- You say this is an advantage to Moeller, but its really not. You say its Moe's win because you think of the Classic were Moe had Sanders and Koenig swim this, when in reality they won't swim this at Disrticts (unless they wan't to weaken they're other events) so what it comes down to is Krone vs Lawley, and Louis vs Schwab, with X having more guys likely to score after that, and right now no one in the district has gone a time fast enough to prove to me they can beat Will Lawley when he's got a fast suit on, so really i think this one is advantage X, but only a small one

500- Alex Miller Matt Columbus and now Robert Lawley who had a great classic swim will most likely be in the top 8, so heavy, heavy advantage X ( this alone would make up the difference IF Moeller all 3 relays, and then some)

100 back- It keonig vs no one but keonig still won't break the top 5 so ad Moe but not devistating

100 breast- Right now its probably a battle for first between Albers and Lipari, but Sam has back up from Schwartz who will be in the top 8 and Baumgartner who could be, so ad X

For the relays while Moeller is the favorite in them, unlike classic they cant have the same guys swim in them all, and once X is tapered and also in fast suits there is no garantee Moe will get the win in them all. Right now i think Moe wins the Medley, Oak Hills win the 200 free, and X wins the 400 free.

If you ad it all up it looks like X has the advantage in the 200 free, 200 IM, 100 free, 500 free, and 100 breast so even if Moe gets first in all relays and X gets second that only 18 points. So I dont Moe has enough guys to beat X at districts. State however could be different. Like some one said on another thread Moe will be at thier best when it their best 6 or 7 vs someone elses best 6 or 7, not 20 vs 20.

[stxbomber999]

Also diving goes to X as well

[xbomberd08]

It should make Districts interesting but I say X will win and possibly take a relay as well.

[ElksSWIM2010]

yay St.Xavier will win the medley relay from the fact that this meet isnt classics and moeller can't stack all relays, but they will probebly do the free relays which would have a good chance of performing well...also centervilles medley relay should beat moellers giving X and advantage...assuming moeller doesnt stack it

[Amazin']

yay St.Xavier will win the medley relay from the fact that this meet isn't classics and Moeller can't stack all relays, but they will probebly do the free relays which would have a good chance of performing well...also centervilles medley relay should beat moellers giving X and advantage...assuming moeller doesnt stack it

who knows what they'll do. they just showed everyone they have a lot more possibilities than expected. (from a bunch of freestylers)

[crusader007]

yay St.Xavier will win the medley relay from the fact that this meet isnt classics and moeller can't stack all relays, but they will probebly do the free relays which would have a good chance of performing well...also centervilles medley relay should beat moellers giving X and advantage...assuming moeller doesnt stack it

I guess that means we don't have enough depth to make three really good relays. We will see what happens because Districts is the meet where you can make accurate assumptions on how people do individually or on relays at state time.

[ElksSWIM2010]

just sayin that X has a better chance to win the medley at districts

[Amazin']

just sayin that X has a better chance to win the medley at districts

if they put their main swimmers in it.....

[BigSwimFan]

All those relays depend on which teams try to stack certain relays. But if X and Moeller put their 4 best in the Medley edge goes to Moeller. Something Moeller can do is put their stud Freshman butterfly, Josephson, and have Sanders swim on both Free Relays. I wouldn't be suprsised to see Moeller's relays doing a better job than most people think even if they don't stack them.

[Amazin']

All those relays depend on which teams try to stack certain relays. But if X and Moeller put their 4 best in the Medley edge goes to Moeller. Something Moeller can do is put their stud Freshman butterfly, Josephson, and have Sanders swim on both Free Relays. I wouldn't be suprsised to see Moeller's relays doing a better job than most people think even if they don't stack them.

i wouldn't be suprised to see the relays be the same as when they swam at the Larry Lyons invite. Even though the medaly was not "stacked", it still went fast, then the other free relays were fast, as expected.