DIII Tournament

[Clobber]

Summit - 1, Mariemont - 2, Seven Hills - 3

Should be a great tournament

[cincysoccer2006]

interesting that mariemont and ccs play int he last game of the season as well as in the sectional finals (barring a MAJOR upset).

i find it actually very funny that people are choosing to play against seven hills and chca's or to a lesser extent fenwicks bracket instead of summits or mariemonts. seems like some short-sighted decisions, as that mini-bracket looks to be by far the toughest of the 4, AND the winner goes on to play the other cincinnati bracket in the finals NOT a dayton bracket.

[cincysoccercoach]

cincysoccer, if you were trying to stay away from the #1 and #2 seed that was your only choice. Since cross bracketing the #1's and #2's have always gone after Dayton. It's the smart thing to do especially since Dayton is down this year. That pretty much leaves #3 - #6 to go to the other brackets. No sense playing against Mariemont in the District semi-finals when if you win you have the opportunity to play them in the Regional Semi's. Summit is on the Dayton side all the way to the Regional Finals. It only leaves two mini brackets for the #3 - #6 to play. Plus if I'm the #4 seed why put myself in the #3 seed's bracket. Same with #5. We at #6 wanted a bye and that spot was the only place left. We did that so we could replay the Springfield Catholic game the first week of the tournament - it's a much better warm up than a first round game.

[Clobber]

Well thought out as usual coach - do well!

Any word on the status of the Dayton DIII brackets?

[dutchkeep]

yes, why aren't the D3 Dayton brackets posted yet.

[dubayuw]

yes, why aren't the D3 Dayton brackets posted yet.
they just got them up

[dubayuw]

My Prediction:
7hills, Summit, Mariemont, and Fenwick all advance out of their mini-brackets. Summit and Mariemont take care of their Dayton opponents(1 for mariemont and 2 for summit) and Seven Hills beats Fenwick. I believe that would mean Summit would make state, and 7hills and Mariemont would play for the other place in state. That's it for know.

[cincysoccercoach]

dubayuw that's not how it will go. If the top two seeds out of Cincinnati make it through their groups they would play each other in the Regional Finals. Winner would go to the State Semi's.

Here's how it would look if all higher seeds win and Cincinnati beats Dayton:
District Finals:
Summit vs Franklin Monroe
Lehman Catholic vs Springfield Catholic
Seven Hills vs Fenwick
Mariemont vs Bethel

Regional Semi's:
Summit vs Springfield Catholic
Mariemont vs Seven Hills

Regional Finals:
Summit vs Mariemont

[cincysoccer2006]

i understand what ur saying cincysoccer, but i dont see why anyone would want to play 2 (or in a couple teams that have to go thru u 3) games against top notch opponents than just 1. who would want to play a 6 seed, and then a 3 seed (who in my mind is a 2), and THEN a 4 or 5 seed all to win the district tournament rather than play a 2 seed (or in my mind a 3) and then a terrible dayton team to win the district championship.

id take my chances against 1 team rather than 3.

[dubayuw]

dubayuw that's not how it will go. If the top two seeds out of Cincinnati make it through their groups they would play each other in the Regional Finals. Winner would go to the State Semi's.

Thats what i meant, i just don't know what all the stages of the tournament are called.

[cincysoccer2006]

ok so heres my new question. if seven hills was ranked higher than mariemont in the city poll (which was given to the oscca state voters and i have been told they vote on teams based on how they are ranked in their city), what changed between that and the sectional seeding voting in anyones mind?

[cincyd3soccer]

Question ... is their a cleveland-columbus bracket as well? If so do the winners of dayton-cincinnati play winner of clevland-columbus?

[cincysoccercoach]

cincysoccer2006, I guess everyone feels the #1 & #2 are too much better than them. If you can't beat the 1 team in your bracket then why not play someone else and try to get to the District Finals versus the District Semi's. You really only have to beat one higher seeded team to get to the district finals.

The other factor is that from the #3 seed to the #8 seed you have a chance for someone else to upset them and make the run easier.

So the logic is: If you have a low chance of beating the #1 & #2 seeds go to the other bracket and stay away from higher seeds as long as you can and hope for an upset.

This is ten times better than in previous years. It used to be that the eight seeded teams had to be evenly distributed among the four brackets. If you were the eighth seed like I was one year I had no choice but to go into the #1 seeds mini bracket. Needless to say we didn't get any farther than District Semi's.

By the way your comment about the #3 should be #2 I'm sure is based upon the Summit/Seven Hills game. I was at that game and it was a one sided affair. Seven Hills played great defense, actually outstanding defense, but only registered about 3 shots on goal. Summit tested the keeper all game and I believe McNamara had about 7 saves on about 15 shots. Mariemont played Summit much better than Seven Hills in my opinion but Seven Hills was away and Mariemont was home. It may be just a toss up. The good thing is that we have three Cincinnati teams in the state top ten for the first time in my coaching career.

McNamara is a quality goalkeeper and will definitely help them in their tournament run. Confidence in the backline and GK spot gives the team the energy to work hard up top.

[cincysoccercoach]

cincyd3soccer the Cinti/Dayton Region plays the Columbus/East region. NW Ohio plays NE Ohio.

cincysoccer2006, the answer is the seeding vote was to be completed by Friday @ noon. Many coaches had already voted before the game on Thursday.

[cincysoccer2006]

my argument about sh being a 2 seed is based on the fact that they are finding ways to win and mariemont are finding ways to lose. seven hills players all told me they wanted to play mariemont again in the tournament because they think they can beat them. the state voters obviously think that sh is better. and all im saying is that if i were given the option to play either chca, sh and then dayton christian/fenwick or marimeont, ill take the chance of beating mariemont over the almost impossibility of beating 3 top 6 teams.

i understand what you're saying, but idk i guess i just dont see mariemont and being the juggernaut that for some reason everyone else sees. they must be 20 times the team they were 2 years ago

[cincysoccercoach]

Again cincysoccer2006, assuming we are only talking about seeds #3 - #6 because # 7 & #8 went on those two teams bracket. So those four teams will only have to play at most two higher seeded teams and the second game would be at the district finals before they get to #1 or #2. Your argument works only if #3 went directly at #2 which might have been a good play if I was their coach and thought they could beat them. That would make the getting to the Regionals much easier assuming you beat #2.

Also I think the state pollsters were only looking at the sh win over summit and that's why they went ahead of them. I bet they didn't know Mariemont beat SH.

I'm not taking anything away from SH but coaches make seed decisions based upon their team capabilities and their match ups of opponents.

[cincysoccer2006]

oh, im talking about seeds 9-15 mainly coach. i am not judging your decision whatsoever

[cincysoccer2006]

and if i were sh's coach and i thought i could beat mariemont i would without a doubt go in their bracket, maybe even play them in the first round based on how they chose. in my mind a first round loss is the same as a district final loss, you didn't win districts. and i know this because i lost district finals games 3 times. honestly, i wish they didnt even give medals to second place at districts, whenever i look at them i get pissed off

[cincysoccer2006]

^^ and the reason i might choose to play them in the ifrst round is for shock value. mariemont chooses to play in that game so they dont have a tough first round game and they continue playing (good decision, look at colorado rockies last year in baseball). if a top seeded team chooses to play them early its a totally different mindset going into the game. it would either be a huge motivator for mariemont or you could catch them laying an egg. HUGE risk, but potentially even bigger reward.

[cincysoccercoach]

No and I'm not justifying my decisions either. There is a general consensus and historical precedent that says if you're not below a #8 seed the odds to make to the District Finals are pretty slim. Been there a few times and my goal was to prolong my season as much as I can for the seniors and to get tournament pressure experience for the underclassmen. We all hope for the upset and the chance to move on and nobody understands that more than me but the reality is the end of the season is a few games away.

Generally the higher seeded coaches hate the first round games because of the weaker competition but don't want to sit idle for 7 days. If you play a #15+ seed the game is slower and you play slower and the potential to create bad habits. If you sit idle you get stale and could lose your edge.

Going on top of a higher seed is generally considered bad form! This IS a gentleman's game!!!!

[cincysoccercoach]

By the way cincysoccer, how is the left coast?

[cincysoccer2006]

true about the bad form but teams should be ready to play at any time. if you think that playing a 2 seed in the first round is your best shot at making the district finals then its bad coaching to not choose that (i am in NO WAY saying that sh's decisionw as in any way wrong here im more thinking hypothetically for the future, as the new cross-bracketing has completely changed the way the tournament is)

based on what u said about first round games (and what i agree with more than 100%), you guys got it made playing scc i believe next week.

left coast is very nice. weather starting to cool off a little, getting into the 80's. organizing the intramural soccer team for my fraternity hah. things are good.

[cincysoccer2006]

coach id be interested to get your viewpoint on the statement made by one of the sh parents that 'summit never had a dangerous chance. ian never had to make a save that he wudnt make 9.9 out of 10 times'
i obviously havent been at the games so i only go based off what i hear

[cincysoccercoach]

I would agree that Summit never had any dangerous shots that Ian had to save. There were several balls off corners and crosses that were played around the 6-yard box and to the back post that if Ian had spilled them it would have been a goal. A couple of those balls Ian laid out for and collected. As I had said earlier, Ian had a fantastic game. Best I've seen him play. Summit had the law of averages just about to work in their favor when the game ended. I don't know how much longer SH's defense could have held out. I was a great show of team defense by SH.

Glad to hear everything is good. Have fun be safe.

[cincysoccer2006]

Have fun be safe.

always am, except for on discussion boards

[futbol10]

wouldn't count fenwick out after the mini brackets.. seven hills vs. fenwick has potential for a better game then you might expect.

[Sdad]

I wouldn't count DC out so fast. Who says it won't be DC vs Seven Hills? DC has played well in their last few games and could be a real challenge to Fenwick.

[futbol10]

I wouldn't count DC out so fast. Who says it won't be DC vs Seven Hills? DC has played well in their last few games and could be a real challenge to Fenwick.

I said has potential to be a good game, if, of course, Fenwick gets there.

[cincysoccer2006]

cincysoccer, i was just looking on another website at some previous postings you made, and i couldn't help but be struck by one time when we talked about good teams barely beating poor teams when they shud crush them. you said 'good teams always find a way to win.' do you wish to retract that now, given the fact that sh is ranked below mariemont?

[cincysoccercoach]

Finding a way to win doesn't mean luckily getting the other team to score for you. The own goal was clearly an act of God not the results of finding a way to win. That reference is to creating situations for your team to affect a positive result for your team. Summit had command of the game both in possession and shots. That doesn't always dictate the winner but a lucky goal doesn't mean the better team won and the rankings reflect that.

Actually, Mariemont did find a way to beat SH by converting a scramble in front of the net off a long cross. I guess this is just a case of my opinion. Mariemont beat SH, Summit beat Mariemont, SH was gifted the win over Summit. In my mind that doesn't catapult SH over Mariemont.

It doesn't affect the tournament seeding if one was above the other. Right now Mairemont will play a #2 seed and SH will play a #4 or #5 seed to get to the Regional-Semi"s. But I could be wrong and if both teams win they will meet in the Regional Semi's and it will be decide there.

[cincysoccer2006]

considering marimeont hasnt won a game since they beat sh (approximately) doesnt help your case coach. they are finding ways to lose games. i dont care if theyr better than teams, theyre not beating them. i have some amazing examples of teams like that in recent history that lost in the first round of the tournament if u want me to spout some out.

and i heard that 2 balls were put in the back of the net, one was just called back.

ever heard the saying you make your own luck coach? was the act of god getting the ball all the way to the goal line our the mistouch? or both? because if the act of god wasn't getting the ball all the way to the goal line, then id have to say that sh found a way to win.

and where is the respect for finishing in this whole debate? has it slipped by everyone that putting the ball in the back of the net actually matters? ill give u the ball for 70% of the game if ur shooting at 0% and ill take it for 30% if my team is shooting at 50%. and i bet i'll win.

^^ i think this is our biggest disagreement as you always seem to focus on how well a team plays first and i focus on who is putting the ball in the back of the net. and i willadmit when my team was not as good as another team and beatthem (3-0 win over finneytown my sr year, they were better but we found ways to finish) or when my team was better and lost (2-1 loss to mariemont my soph year in the classic at XU). simple fact of the matter is one team found a way to finish and the other team layed an egg in front of the goal.

possession is way overrated. and everyone ive talked to said that while summit had the ball a lot they never seriously looked like scoring.

soccoach this is no knock on your team, it is just getting tiring that wins and goals are so underrated.

[cincysoccer2006]

reading that post again ti is a little more derogatory-sounding than i intend for it to be. please read the words as if they were written 'respectfully,' as they were, it is just hard ot convey that and convey my ideas at the same time

[cincysoccercoach]

No worries, it is hard to write in a two dimensional system because the reader interprets the emotion even if there isn't any. I know you well enough that the respect for both our opinions is present.

I'm not saying goals are underrated they obviously determine the outcome. Teams that score goals are the key not gifted goals by the other team. I even acknowledge the wayward cross that finds the net as a positive because he was in enough of an attacking position to get a cross off.

Sometimes teams win games against the run of play and you have to say "well done" you took advantage of the limited opportunities that you had. In a nil-nil game who created more chances, how dangerous were the chances and who had the ball the most of the time to prevent the other team from scoring. Possession doesn't win games I agree but it prevents the other team from the time they need to create a goal. It does have a purpose and reward. That is all the information that you have to declare a winner.

[cincysoccer2006]

to end this debate, all im saying is that 2 years ago when we played at their place they scored a goal that was in my mind completely against the run of play and was somewhat lucky. it was one of the only times in my life where i legit felt extremely confident against a team that i didn't see mine as being better than, i just knew that we were outplaying them that half, that night. i thought that we were for sure going to win and it was a matter of time before we put one in the back of the net. then they score. we had chances later, including a free kick saved off the line by a defenders head, but it wasnt enough. it won them the game and the conference championship. this is us paying them back.

[cincysoccercoach]

I think it is totally ironic that the only game Summit loses all season costs them the league championship. There's the "karma" you are looking for to overcome your earlier heartbreak.

[cincysoccer2006]

pretty nuts actually if u think about it.

so who are the tourneys sleeper picks? anyone see another unseeded team shocking the pundits and making it to the district finals?

[cincysoccer2006]

sidenote coach, how do u feel about a counterattacking team?

[Gview]

anyone see another unseeded team shocking the pundits and making it to the district finals?

Actually there are no unseeded teams anymore. They are all seeded.

Counterattacking style team needs to finish their chances.

[cincysoccer2006]

and if they do gview are they considered a successful team even if they dont have the majority of possession and the majority of the game is played in their half?

ok, any teams seeded below #8 that u guys think have a chance?

[Gview]

and if they do gview are they considered a successful team even if they dont have the majority of possession and the majority of the game is played in their half?


Well if you consider 23-0-0 successful then yes. It happened a lot against us in 2005. Numerous games we were out shot, out possessed, but still put the ball in the back of the net when it counted (this includes the Title games were we were out shot 43-11-still won in PK's).

[cincysoccer2006]

only 23-0-0? i dunno if i would consider that successful. then again i have high standards!

obviously kidding! great season coach.

[Gview]

Could have been 24 but we took the 1st round bye. But then again we take the 1st round game, maybe we loose that game.

It was a great season. And a lot of fun. The best part was listening to everyone tell us we were not very good because we couldn't possess the ball against good teams.

Probably the best was the Worthington Christian Coach at the Final Meeting telling the Kidron Central Coach that they watched our game with Fenwick and his scout said that we were not any good, that it must be a down year in the South. Mooney beats Kidron 2-1, we beat WC 2-1.

I told a very good friend that it wasn't pretty soccer, but his come back was it's winning soccer.

To be effective you have to have the players that match that style, and believe that it will work. In 2005 it did work and worked very well.

[dutchkeep]

Gview, that was one of those magical season. Your boys were clutch when they needed to be. Congrats again!

[cincysoccer2006]

so true about it being winning soccer.
and it is by far the best feeling when someone talks you down and you come back to beat them (or show them up). havent had the feeling yet, because my coach has always been unreal. maybe when im the guy barking on the sideline it will happen, we'll see. look forward to the tournament

[Gview]

so true about it being winning soccer.
and it is by far the best feeling when someone talks you down and you come back to beat them (or show them up).

The coach after the game never left the bench. Didn't come out and shake anyone's hand, no good luck, kiss my ---, nothing. Very disappointed in his lack of respect for their opponent.

[anthem]

Could have been 24 but we took the 1st round bye. But then again we take the 1st round game, maybe we loose that game.

It was a great season. And a lot of fun. The best part was listening to everyone tell us we were not very good because we couldn't possess the ball against good teams.

Probably the best was the Worthington Christian Coach at the Final Meeting telling the Kidron Central Coach that they watched our game with Fenwick and his scout said that we were not any good, that it must be a down year in the South. Mooney beats Kidron 2-1, we beat WC 2-1.

I told a very good friend that it wasn't pretty soccer, but his come back was it's winning soccer.

To be effective you have to have the players that match that style, and believe that it will work. In 2005 it did work and worked very well.
That was just your year man. I was happy to see you win though how you won I have no idea. You had good players and luck was on your side. Drove all the way up from Cincy for that game against Fenwick and for your Finals match in Columbus and in Columbus you're boys shined plain and simple. Fenwick game was ridiculous their CB slipping giving your main man a unchallenged breakaway. Your midfield was dominant that game however and that was where the game was won. Your boys were just making their midfield look silly in possession putting those detractors away. Fenwick just looked lethargic and their missed pk was the difference between them winning state and you beating them. I do however remember a very interesting announcer at that game. Absolutely a wonderful wonderful season. It was nothing short of brilliant and few teams outside of the GCL (GO MOELLER!!!!) actually get me as enthused to go watch as Gview.