St. Xavier Swimming 2009

[saintxavierbomber]

can the bombers come back and reclaim the state title?

thoughts/facts about the team

[XdesIDtrans]

Lawley, Columbus, Schwartz, Lipari, and more return from X's state team - they lose Springer and Barbiere, which is huge - but my estimates based on the underclassmen show that X should beat St. Charles at least, I have yet to run the other competitive teams...

[XdesIDtrans]

oh, and mason meier, first X diver to score points since Maggio in 2004 unless I'm missing something...

[bomb1]

oh, and mason meier, first X diver to score points since Maggio in 2004 unless I'm missing something...

Diver Brian Valerio scored in 2005's upset of UA. His points were unexpected and really fired the guys up.

[ElksSWIM2010]

University

UA

Moeller

Centerville

Akron Firestone

Toledo St. John's Jesuit

[Bigmoe22]

Fairly certain X wont win state this year, they didnt have a whole lot of stand out swimmers last year and not any this year. I mean they still have good swimmers like columbus but there not enough of them.

[ImPartial]

Fairly certain X wont win state this year, they didnt have a whole lot of stand out swimmers last year and not any this year. I mean they still have good swimmers like columbus but there not enough of them.

Have you done any comparisons of returning swimmers from the top teams or is your reasoning "jus cuz"?

Comparing the returning state qualifiers plus the near misses from districts last year, both StX and StC should score over 200 points this year, with Columbus/Lawley/Lipari/Schwartz/Meier projecting more points than StC returning qualifiers. A good case can be made for UA scoring around 200 points also. Of course, at this time, you could say every team has the possibility of scoring over 200 pts at state.

How about this question, which duo will score more points at state?

StX, Columbus/Lawley
StC, Mai/Schutinger
UA, Huffman/Kelch
Moe, Albers/Krone

Do any other teams have two guys that, BASED ON LAST YEAR'S RESULTS, would project two top eight finishes each?

[thedutchman]

Fairly certain X wont win state this year, they didnt have a whole lot of stand out swimmers last year and not any this year. I mean they still have good swimmers like columbus but there not enough of them.

I disagree. The 08 team was actually faster than the 07 team. Though it didn't have a national caliber swimmer like Mosko, it was a better team top to bottom. Just compare the relay times of 08 & 07. X is definately the favorite to win the state. SC could dethrone them again if their secondary swimmers improve significantly. UA doesn't have the depth to put together 3 top relays. Neither does anyone else. So get used to it, this year's state meet will be like last year's...a battle between X & SC.

[ImPartial]

With the dilution of two divisions, it won't be as hard for teams like UA and Moeller to place three relays in the top 5. New Albany, Canfield, University, etc won't be there. Even Mason, Centerville, and Oak Hills could put two relays in the top 5. The biggest unknown for StX this year is its relays. Sure, Columbus and Lawley will fill two spots, but who will fill backstroke and fly on the medley, and the other two spots on the free relays? Schoenling looks like a potential, but his times last year were not exceptional. Does StX have some hidden gems with proven times?

[blue2009]

How about this question, which duo will score more points at state?

StX, Columbus/Lawley
StC, Mai/Schutinger
UA, Huffman/Kelch
Moe, Albers/Krone

Do any other teams have two guys that, BASED ON LAST YEAR'S RESULTS, would project two top eight finishes each?[/QUOTE]


Mason, Rice/Kolwyck
Lakota West, Hart/Koch

[xbomberd08]

Fairly certain X wont win state this year, they didnt have a whole lot of stand out swimmers last year and not any this year. I mean they still have good swimmers like columbus but there not enough of them.


but just like last year swimmers will step up. they always do, that is how history is made.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Centerville

Travis Schieman and Ty Perkins

[ImPartial]

Mason, Rice/Kolwyck
Lakota West, Hart/Koch


Centerville, Travis Schieman and Ty Perkins

Most of these guys did not qualify in two events last season. In the 200 free, there are nine returning DI state qualifiers. #8 fastest qualifier was Rice of Mason. Behind Rice in the Southwest district meet were

11 Rice, Zach J JR Mason
14 Perkins, Ty M SO Centerville
16 Kleinhenz, Jonathan JR Walnut Hills
17 Kolwyck, Jared M JR Mason

BASED ON LAST YEAR'S RESULTS, that does not put Kolwyck/Perkins in the top 8.

Hart did not qualify in the 100 free last season. I wonder if he will swim the 100 free this year. The state meet format will be just like the district meet where the 100 free is swam on the same day as the 100 fly and immediately following it. But the 100 free looks like a weak event in DI this year. There are only five returning DI state qualifiers. To fill out the projected top eight, you have to search district results for the next three. There are six other underclassmen with faster 100 free times than Hart from other districts.

[ImPartial]

Schuttinger, Hart and Schieman are among the top returning fly'ers. At Speedo Sectional, their times were:

Hart 57.86
Schuttinger 59.19
Schieman 59.81

At Jr Nationals:

Hart 57.39
Schieman 1:00.51

[blue2009]

Hart did not qualify in the 100 free last season. I wonder if he will swim the 100 free this year. The state meet format will be just like the district meet where the 100 free is swam on the same day as the 100 fly and immediately following it. But the 100 free looks like a weak event in DI this year. There are only five returning DI state qualifiers. To fill out the projected top eight, you have to search district results for the next three. There are six other underclassmen with faster 100 free times than Hart from other districts.

I believe Hart will swim the 200 Free this year. He would easily be top eight. I know this is not based on last years results. He is also ranked 2nd in the fly. Koch is 4th in the IM (accounting for d2) and 7th in
the 500(accounting for d2).

[ImPartial]

Hart's best 200 time in both short and long course is slower than Rice's, who is projected as eigth. Therefore, Hart would not easily be top eight! That is why I keep repeating, BASED ON LAST YEAR'S RESULTS (not based on personal opinion, gut feeling, nor bias).

[ElksSWIM2010]

Well if you want to use LCM times this summer...at Zones people from Centerville went...

Max Litvinov
1:08.94 100 Breast

Dan Glaser-Garbrick
58.71 100 Fly

Mark Gammell
1:01.57 100 Back

Tyler Roberts
1:03.94 100 Back
1:00.50 100 Fly

[xbomberd08]

Well I know in short course meters Johnson went a 23.6 in the 50 free and Gleas went a 54.10 (led off relay) in the 100 free.

[ElksSWIM2010]

do u know who is gonna be on stX's relays?

[xbomberd08]

There's no saying what it will be right now, but there are a few definites.

[ElksSWIM2010]

who is the #1 backstroker for stx now?

[Amazin']

there's no telling. Mr. Brower always has something up his sleeve. (not cheating, he is a great guy) but he has people come out of no where to make a huge impact on the team.

[ElksSWIM2010]

yeah by that u mean...recruiting

[xbomberd08]

yeah by that u mean...recruiting

Yeah that's what he spends all his time doing :rolleyes:

Since when is turning decent to bad swimmers into All-American swimmers called recruiting?

[xbomberd08]

there's no telling. Mr. Brower always has something up his sleeve. (not cheating, he is a great guy) but he has people come out of no where to make a huge impact on the team.


Definately, and that is why year after year St. Xavier has such a great team. You can't win on talent alone, it's teamwork that turns good swimmers into great swimmers.

[ElksSWIM2010]

im sure that if good teamwork was all that it took to win then other teams would win state...

[ImPartial]

:rolleyes:
Since when is turning decent to bad swimmers into All-American swimmers called recruiting?

WOW! Can you make a list of bad swimmers that he has turned into All-Americans in the three months that he trains them during high school? I guess in the other nine months, they sit around eating potato chips and playing video games. Think, if Brower coached them year-round they would be Olympians!

[xbomberd08]

im sure that if good teamwork was all that it took to win then other teams would win state...

You're exactly right. But St. X is just about the only school in the state that trains as a team. All the other schools allow their swimmers to train with their club team and just show up to meets. The reason St. X has kids step up every year is because of the sense of teamwork.

[ElksSWIM2010]

you are being completely BIASED on these statements

[xbomberd08]

WOW! Can you make a list of bad swimmers that he has turned into All-Americans in the three months that he trains them during high school? I guess in the other nine months, they sit around eating potato chips and playing video games. Think, if Brower coached them year-round they would be Olympians!

Kyle Gallagher and Steven Springer were both on this years 200 free relay and both swam the 50 free at state. Both are swimming All-Americans and both were trained by coach Brower. Gallagher swam all 4 years only for St. X, so only for 3 months out of the year. Steven Springer swam for just St. X his sophomore year (didn't swim freshman year) and qualified for state in the 50 free, he then also swam year round but it was Coach Brower who got him to state sophomore year.

[xbomberd08]

you are being completely BIASED on these statements

How? I'm just stating facts and make inferences from them...

[ElksSWIM2010]

Well all the varsity swimmers on centerville are on the sharks except for ty perkins and tyler roberts and the coach is the same for CVILLE and the sharks

[ElksSWIM2010]

So you are assuming St.X Trains harder than and have more improvement then other schools in those three months? about about the LCM season and months leading up to that

[ImPartial]

The 50 free (and to a less extent, the 100 free) is where you find the most swimmers that are not year-round club swimmers. And it doesn't matter how many yards a club swimmer does and how much training, he may never swim 21 high. And yet somehow, a muscular kid can come in and do that on the first day of practice. How good of a coach was Taylor high's when Josh Schneider won the state 50 free? I think calling Springer and Gallagher bad swimmers is underestimating their talent.

[xbomberd08]

The 50 free (and to a less extent, the 100 free) is where you find the most swimmers that are not year-round club swimmers. And it doesn't matter how many yards a club swimmer does and how much training, he may never swim 21 high. And yet somehow, a muscular kid can come in and do that on the first day of practice. How good of a coach was Taylor high's when Josh Schneider won the state 50 free? I think calling Springer and Gallagher bad swimmers is underestimating their talent.

I never said they were bad swimmers, but they weren't great swimmers. They ended up swimming for St. X and became great swimmers. You asked for examples and I gave them to you, and now you're going to try and demean them? It's obviously part talent that got them where they got, but it was also the team as well.

[xbomberd08]

So you are assuming St.X Trains harder than and have more improvement then other schools in those three months? about about the LCM season and months leading up to that

I never said that, I said that the sense of team with St. X helps swimmers step up when they are needed. Swimmers step up year after year for St. X.

[ImPartial]

I never said they were bad swimmers, but they weren't great swimmers. They ended up swimming for St. X and became great swimmers. You asked for examples and I gave them to you, and now you're going to try and demean them? It's obviously part talent that got them where they got, but it was also the team as well.

I said...make a list of BAD swimmers he turned into all-americans. YOU are the one that replied with Springer and Gallagher. Do you need me to repeat the question or do you mean to say he has never turned a bad swimmer into an all-american?

[xbomberd08]

Well Gallagher was definately a BAD swimmer. He swam with our lowest group his first couple years and by senior year was an All-American. Tom Clear also was in the lowest group freshman and by senior year went a 1:44 in the 200 free.

[ImPartial]

Well Gallagher was definately a BAD swimmer. He swam with our lowest group his first couple years and by senior year was an All-American. Tom Clear also was in the lowest group freshman and by senior year went a 1:44 in the 200 free.

Tom Clear...bad example. Not an all-American and his best time wouldn't qualify for state.

Every all-American was at some point...not an all-American. And every all-American improved based on training, motivation and many factors. Brower is not the only coach ever to have trained an all-American.

But you're on a roll. Any other teammates you want to call out as BAD swimmers?

[thedutchman]

I think the point is that Jim Brower is an outstanding coach. More importantly he's an outstanding person. Obviously there are a number of outstanding high school coaches. Whether he takes "bad" swimmers and makes them All Americans really begs the question. Time and time again boys have swam at St. X and improved significantly in and out of season. That's part of the reason that St. X year in and year out has an outstanding team. That has been the case for many many years. Brower and others before him have built a program that is the envy of high school swimming. And sucess breeds sucess. I doubt that St. X recruits, but it does attract outstanding swimmers because of the program. Since it is not confined to a geographic district, then swimmers can legitimately come from all over to swim. While that may seem unfair to other schools there is nothing illegal about it.

[xbomberd08]

Tom Clear...bad example. Not an all-American and his best time wouldn't qualify for state.

Every all-American was at some point...not an all-American. And every all-American improved based on training, motivation and many factors. Brower is not the only coach ever to have trained an all-American.

But you're on a roll. Any other teammates you want to call out as BAD swimmers?

How is that a bad example, it's not everyday that a swimmer throws down a 1:44 in the 2 free and it's obviously Coach Brower and the team that got him there.

I also named Kyle Gallagher and Steven Springer who went from nonthreats to Ohio swimming to all-americans in the nation.

I never said Brower is the only coach to have ever trained an all-american, but he has by far trained the most, along with two national swimmers of the year. The facts are out there, take them as you wish.

[ElksSWIM2010]

brian brasser freshman time 100 breast 1:15...Senior Year 57.91

dan glaser garbrick didnt swim until he was a sophmore for club and went a 58.71 100 fly LCM gettin about .2 seconds from nick schuttinger at the megazone champ meet...

mark gammell went a 59.8 as a freshman backer and went a 1:01.5 LCM this summer

Max litvinov started freshman year 1:09 100 breast this summer 1:08.94 LCM

these are so called "bad" swimmers becoming good...

[xbomberd08]

And you thought my examples were bad?

[Amazin']

it really is horrible that every time there is a comment on St. X getting better, that recruiting gets thrown into the mix..

Mr. Brower is one of the best coaches out there. People love to swim for him because they know that they will get ridiculous fast.

final comment. Elks kid.. If you coach is so good, how many state championships does he have?

[stxbomber999]

Tom Clear...bad example. Not an all-American and his best time wouldn't qualify for state.

Every all-American was at some point...not an all-American. And every all-American improved based on training, motivation and many factors. Brower is not the only coach ever to have trained an all-American.

But you're on a roll. Any other teammates you want to call out as BAD swimmers?

calling Kyle a bad swimmer just a short time ago is not really calling him out, nor does it have any negative meaning towards him. If I were talking to Kyle right now I wouldn't hesitate to say he sucked even at the begining of this year (He went a 24 high at our first meet last year in the 50), and he would completely agree with me. but with just three months of training with X he goes a 21.3. How many other programs could do that

[ElksSWIM2010]

our coach came last year so he is new...he was a coach for pitt

[Amazin']

calling Kyle a bad swimmer just a short time ago is not really calling him out, nor does it have any negative meaning towards him. If I were talking to Kyle right now I wouldn't hesitate to say he sucked even at the begining of this year (He went a 24 high at our first meet last year in the 50), and he would completely agree with me. but with just three months of training with X he goes a 21.3. How many other programs could do that

i totally agree with thiss...

or back to the elks kid.. how many national titles?

[xbomberd08]

calling Kyle a bad swimmer just a short time ago is not really calling him out, nor does it have any negative meaning towards him. If I were talking to Kyle right now I wouldn't hesitate to say he sucked even at the begining of this year (He went a 24 high at our first meet last year in the 50), and he would completely agree with me. but with just three months of training with X he goes a 21.3. How many other programs could do that

Case closed

[ImPartial]

How is that a bad example, it's not everyday that a swimmer throws down a 1:44 in the 2 free and it's obviously Coach Brower and the team that got him there.

I also named Kyle Gallagher and Steven Springer who went from nonthreats to Ohio swimming to all-americans in the nation.

I never said Brower is the only coach to have ever trained an all-american, but he has by far trained the most, along with two national swimmers of the year. The facts are out there, take them as you wish.

My original request was this:

Can you make a list of bad swimmers that he has turned into All-Americans in the three months that he trains them during high school?

So far your list is empty.
1- According to you, Steve Springer was not a BAD swimmer.

2- You say Gallagher was a BAD swimmer. However, he trained with Brower for four seasons. I don't think it is a miracle for a good coach to be able to help a swimmer improve over the course of four years. Just off the top of my head, here are a couple similar cases: Huffman, Josh Schneider, Jason Schnur (a Jr that beat Gallagher at state)

3- Tom Clear is clearly a BAD example because he is not an All-American. And 1:44 is not a miracle. Brandon Evans of Mason is a non-club swimmer that went 1:44.15 in the 200 free last season. Not an All-American time in the 200, but he was an All-American.

I am not trying to diminish Brower's coaching ability. But also, he has not been canonized into Saint Brower. If the church has recognized any miracles, let me know. And you have a huge volume of swimmers go through your program with impressive credentials before Brower sees them wet. Do you give any credit to Countryside Y for Barbiere and Smit, to the Marlins for Columbus and Lawley, to CAC, etc.? I just think your statement that he turns bad swimmers into All-Americans sounds a bit like a fanboy's ravings.

Case closed

Yeah, right. If two guys from the same school agree on something, it must be true :rolleyes: .

[xbomberd08]

My original request was this:

Can you make a list of bad swimmers that he has turned into All-Americans in the three months that he trains them during high school?

So far your list is empty.
1- According to you, Steve Springer was not a BAD swimmer.

2- You say Gallagher was a BAD swimmer. However, he trained with Brower for four seasons. I don't think it is a miracle for a good coach to be able to help a swimmer improve over the course of four years. Just off the top of my head, here are a couple similar cases: Huffman, Josh Schneider, Jason Schnur (a Jr that beat Gallagher at state)

3- Tom Clear is clearly a BAD example because he is not an All-American. And 1:44 is not a miracle. Brandon Evans of Mason is a non-club swimmer that went 1:44.15 in the 200 free last season. Not an All-American time in the 200, but he was an All-American.

I am not trying to diminish Brower's coaching ability. But also, he has not been canonized into Saint Brower. If the church has recognized any miracles, let me know. And you have a huge volume of swimmers go through your program with impressive credentials before Brower sees them wet. Do you give any credit to Countryside Y for Barbiere and Smit, to the Marlins for Columbus and Lawley, to CAC, etc.?


1) I didn't say Springer was a bad swimmer because he DIDN'T SWIM his freshman year. So I guess I would say not swimming=bad swimmer. He then swam for Coach Brower his sophomore year for 3 months and qualified for state.

2) I don't know how you can dismiss Gallagher, he didn't even swim varsity til his senior year and went from a 24 to a 21-flat in the 50 in one year. Gallagher went from a BAD swimmer to an ALL-American.

3) After you refused to admit Springer and Gallagher as good examples, I then threw another example of a St. X swimmer throwing down a 1:44 in the 200 out of no where. Oh and as for Brandon Evans, how do you try and get away with stating that he's not a year round swimmer? He's been swimming for Mason Manta Rays since 2005, therefore he's a club swimmer.

I'm sorry but I don't know how you got onto canonizing saints, but as for giving credit to club coaches, of course I do. Who ever said I didn't? If I didn't give them credit I would have used Barbiere, Smit, Lawley, etc. as my examples.

I just think your statement that he turns bad swimmers into All-Americans sounds a bit like a fanboy's ravings.

Haha, you act as if I came up with this statement myself. Here, I'll quote your directly:

WOW! Can you make a list of bad swimmers that he has turned into All-Americans in the three months that he trains them during high school?

You asked me a question, I answered it. Not one bit of 'fanyboy's ravings' here, I just thought I'd try and help you out.

[Amazin']

:eek: :wallbang: ha ha

[SwimFan23]

HUSH NOW CHILDREN! SILENCE!

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY EXPECT A MAN OF MY STATURE TO SIT AROUND OBSERVING SUCH NONSENSICAL JIBBER JABBER CONCERNING ATHLETIC EVENTS OF INTEREST TO ME!

YOU ARE YOUR LOCAL FATS ASSUME BLINDLY THAT THE RESULTS WILL MERELY OCCUR IN FAVOR OF YOUR RIDICULOUS ASSUMPTIONATIONS! ALLOW ME PLEASE TO EXAMINE AND DISTRIBUTE THE FACTS ACCORDINGLY...

ACCORDING TO THE PREVIOUS LCM SEASON...(RESPECTFULLY...)

YOU CAN'T MERELY ASSUME THAT THE SWIMMERS OF THE ACADEMY (SAINT XAVIER) [water pigs] SHALL DIMINISH THE SKILLS OF CENTERVILLE'S SWIMMERS [elkz] WITHIN THE EVENTS THAT SUCH SPECIALIZED RACES AS :

100 FLY (TRAVIS SCHIEMAN DAN GLASER-GARBRICK TYLER ROBERTS)

100 BACK (MARK GAMMELL SAM MITCHELL TYLER ROBERTS)

100 BREAST( TRAVIS SCHIEMAN MAX LITVINOV NATE FALKNOR)

THE HEAVENS SHOW US THE STRENGTH OF THE ELKS IN THESE EVENTS, UNCOMPARABLE...TIME SHALL TELL....

BUT FIRST....!

ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE MYSELF....THE MARVELOUS...

HAMOLKA....HOERMOERKER HAMOLKA...PRESIDING....


I TRAVEL THE WORLD...WITNESSING SWIMMING...ANALYZING STATISTICS AND DOING GOOD!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Tim_Curry_01.jpg

NOW BUT FIRST....

FARETHEEWELL

[ImPartial]

1)

Haha, you act as if I came up with this statement myself. Here, I'll quote your directly:

You asked me a question, I answered it. Not one bit of 'fanyboy's ravings' here, I just thought I'd try and help you out.

Here are your original fanboy ravings. I'll quote you directly:

Yeah that's what he spends all his time doing :rolleyes:

Since when is turning decent to bad swimmers into All-American swimmers called recruiting?

And you're not really being very helpful. You started with the fanboy statement and I asked you to provide examples to support your statement. And Tom Clear is a bad example of an All-American because he was not an All-American. Gallagher was not a miracle of three months. He trained with Brower for four years. Going 23 as a junior to 21 as a senior is great. But don't pretend that he was 24+ for three years and by the grace of Brower...

[xbomberd08]

Here are your original fanboy ravings. I'll quote you directly:



And you're not really being very helpful. You started with the fanboy statement and I asked you to provide examples to support your statement. And Tom Clear is a bad example of an All-American because he was not an All-American. Gallagher was not a miracle of three months. He trained with Brower for four years. Going 23 as a junior to 21 as a senior is great. But don't pretend that he was 24+ for three years and by the grace of Brower...

I've laid out the facts, take them as you wish.

[Amazin']

HUSH NOW CHILDREN! SILENCE!

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY EXPECT A MAN OF MY STATURE TO SIT AROUND OBSERVING SUCH NONSENSICAL JIBBER JABBER CONCERNING ATHLETIC EVENTS OF INTEREST TO ME!

YOU ARE YOUR LOCAL FATS ASSUME BLINDLY THAT THE RESULTS WILL MERELY OCCUR IN FAVOR OF YOUR RIDICULOUS ASSUMPTIONATIONS! ALLOW ME PLEASE TO EXAMINE AND DISTRIBUTE THE FACTS ACCORDINGLY...

ACCORDING TO THE PREVIOUS LCM SEASON...(RESPECTFULLY...)

YOU CAN'T MERELY ASSUME THAT THE SWIMMERS OF THE ACADEMY (SAINT XAVIER) [water pigs] SHALL DIMINISH THE SKILLS OF CENTERVILLE'S SWIMMERS [elkz] WITHIN THE EVENTS THAT SUCH SPECIALIZED RACES AS :

100 FLY (TRAVIS SCHIEMAN DAN GLASER-GARBRICK TYLER ROBERTS)

100 BACK (MARK GAMMELL SAM MITCHELL TYLER ROBERTS)

100 BREAST( TRAVIS SCHIEMAN MAX LITVINOV NATE FALKNOR)

THE HEAVENS SHOW US THE STRENGTH OF THE ELKS IN THESE EVENTS, UNCOMPARABLE...TIME SHALL TELL....

FARETHEEWELL

He does bring up a very huge point. St. X is still good, but the amount of events that they will be solid in are starting to diminish. LIke he said in Fly, and back. (breast isn't going to be that big because of Schwartz and Lipari.

This really does show how the rest of the teams in the State, and SW District is finally catching with the powerhouse of St. X.

[bomb1]

Swin Fan 23....calling the St X. swimmers "water pigs" ??? To the the St. X guys on here, Coach Brower's record can stand for itself. No need to contradict the negative comments made by the Elks fans. Always realize how lucky you are to be coached by a man like Coach Brower. He would not like the above discussion. Go Bombers.

[ElksSWIM2010]

we are.....public....

[xbomberd08]

yes you are

[ElksSWIM2010]

=) proud of it

[Xbomber098]

He does bring up a very huge point. St. X is still good, but the amount of events that they will be solid in are starting to diminish. LIke he said in Fly, and back. (breast isn't going to be that big because of Schwartz and Lipari.

This really does show how the rest of the teams in the State, and SW District is finally catching with the powerhouse of St. X.
The "powerhouse" of St. X may seem diminished, but this is not the case. Every year X has freshman come into the program who aren't state caliber. Yet, by senior year many of these kids are scoring top 8. I don't think St. X can be caught, not with the coaching staff and facility that X has. The coaches at X are arguably the best in the state, and they are the reason for X always being at the top. Yes, one day when they leave the story might be different. But, with those coaches and the two 25yd pools to train in, X doesn't look like it will get caught.

Last years state meet also can't be looked at as a dent in the "powerhouse". Both St. Charles and St. X swam out of their minds. St. C took more opportunity of the chances they were given, and rightfully won the title. You can't forget St. X won the NISCAA national championchip for the 2nd year in a row. Both teams were phenominal last year, and both will be good in the upcoming year.

[ElksSWIM2010]

and you call just getting an all-american backstroker from new york(frankie dyer) out of nowhere cause u needed one and had no one at that position not recruiting?

[stxbomber999]

oh come on its not like X called this kids family and told them to move just because they needed a backstroker, his family just happened to be moving to cincinnati, and since X is known for being a very good acadmic school maybe his parents wanted him to go there, every years X gets some out of state transfers, and it just so happens that one of them is a good swimmer, dont get upset just because you now realize centerville really has no chance against X


oh and by the way he's the reason why i think X will be better in the 400 free relay. Him and Will can both go 45 mid to low, Matt can go a 46 mid, and then with another guy going a 47 mid they are looking at a 3:05 on that relay

[thedutchman]

and you call just getting an all-american backstroker from new york(frankie dyer) out of nowhere cause u needed one and had no one at that position not recruiting?

If true that's a great addition for St. X. He's a 1:41 mid in the 200 Free; at least a 48 low in the 100; 22.2 in the 50 and 53 high in the 100 back. If the family moved to Cincinnati, St. X would be the logical program for an outstanding swimmer to join. How is that recruiting?...or Elks are you suggesting that some X people arranged for the move. If so, you would think they might look for someone even faster...but then again that might raise suspicions. Success breeds success and it also attracts it! What club team is he on? Wait let me guess, the Marlins.

[stxbomber999]

Yeah, good guess.

[xbomberd08]

and you call just getting an all-american backstroker from new york(frankie dyer) out of nowhere cause u needed one and had no one at that position not recruiting?

Haha yeah, after the Ohio state meet last year Brower knew he needed help so he traveled to New York (of all states) to watch their state meet and saw the perfect recruit: frankie dyer. He figured he could get not one, but two years of swimming out of him. The best part, he could swim backstroke! Brower made sure to make it seem like the family was moving because of a parent switching jobs, but Brower really did all the dirty work in getting them switched...

I mean come on. Get real.

If you look at it rationally. A kid's family has to move to Cincinnati due to a job transfer and they are looking for a school to send their kid. Well their son is quite the swimmer and has more than just chlorine between his ears too. Well when you break it all down, St. X by far has the best swim program in the city...and what do you know, arguably the best academic program as well. So tell me, why SHOULDN'T this kid be at St. X?

[ElksSWIM2010]

Bull---- (also bullcrap, bullplop, horse----, or jocularly bovine deficate) is a common English expletive. It may be shortened to "bull" or the euphemism bs. The term is common in American English. In British English, bollocks is a comparable expletive, although bull---- is now a commonly used expletive in British English as well.

As with many expletives, it can be used as an interjection (or in many other parts of speech) and can carry a wide variety of meanings. Most commonly, it is used in connection with incorrect, misleading, or false language and statements. While the word is generally used in a deprecating sense, it may imply a measure of respect for language skills, or frivolity, among various other benign usages.

Oh and it will take more than a recruited backstroker for X's medley to be faster than centerville...here are the spilts of the breastroker and flyer...last weekend at an exabition meet in a crappy pool just a month after coming off break in the middle of training

2) Litvinov, Maxim 17 27.49
3) Schieman, Travis 16 23.43

http://www.daytonraiders.com/meets_sc_2009/wtrc_fall_results_satpm.htm

see for yourself....

[thedutchman]

Elks, that's a good time. Who will anchor for Centerville? I suspect you will need a 21 split to beat X.

[ElksSWIM2010]

we have two possible people to put in that position one split a 22.4 at the fall invite and the other split a 22.2 at districts last year so either of these people will be enough for a 21 and with the motentum of the fastest 50 flyer in the state....against a mediocre kevin louis...that would be enough...

[stxbomber999]

ok stop crying just because x is better than centerville, it always been this way and it always will. X's relay will be faster than centerville, X has the advantage in back and free, breaststroke is about even, and fly centerville may be better, but its not enough for them to win, and Schieman is hardly the best flyer in the state. Finally, there is no need to call a swimmer mediocre, it only makes you look like an idiot

[ElksSWIM2010]

mediocre compared to schieman who split a 22.8 last year...and he has the fastest 50 split of all returning flyers except for possibly michael hart but his relay is not a contendor so...

[ElksSWIM2010]

Oh and btw...these are stats from the fall invitional just a week ago..exabition meet at the rec center! lol

500Free-
ty perkins 4:41.57

100Back-
Mark Gammell-55.01
Tyler Roberts-55:46

100Breast-
Travis Schieman-1:00.85
Max Litvinov-1:01.59

100Fly-
DAN GLASER-GARBRICK...52.54
Travis Schieman-53.44
Tyler Roberts-55.56

100Free-
Ty Perkins-50.14
Dan Glaser-Garbrick 50.25

200IM-
Dan Glaser-Garbrick...2:00.25
Max Litvinov-2:02.89

http://wtrcsharks.usswim.net/meetinfo/sharksmeets/2008%20Fall%20Meet%20Results.htm

the distance events were every good as well but they dont matter in high school such as 4IM or
2breast/back/fly

[Bearded Man Boy]

What's the difference between a belly smacker and a tummy thwacker?

[stxbomber999]

mediocre compared to schieman who split a 22.8 last year...and he has the fastest 50 split of all returning flyers except for possibly michael hart but his relay is not a contendor so...

who cares, momentum form the fastest flyer in the state really doesnt mean anything, or have you already forgotten last year

[ElksSWIM2010]

it will be alot more than a tenth of a second...and hav u forgotten springer is in college

[stxbomber999]

it will be alot more than a tenth of a second...and hav u forgotten springer is in college

yeah but it wont take someone as fast as springer to beat your freestyler

[thedutchman]

I can see Centerville beating St. X in the district, but not in the state. X's relays always go significantly faster at the state then in the district...last year the medley dropped over 2 seconds while Centerville went up slightly.

[xbomberd08]

I can see Centerville beating St. X in the district, but not in the state. X's relays always go significantly faster at the state then in the district...last year the medley dropped over 2 seconds while Centerville went up slightly.

Seems like an accurate assessment to me.

[stxbomber999]

mediocre compared to schieman who split a 22.8 last year...and he has the fastest 50 split of all returning flyers except for possibly michael hart but his relay is not a contendor so...

oh and have you already forgotten about nick schuttinger, the fastest returning flyer in the state for St. Charles. I'm pretty sure their relay is a contendor.

[Xbomber098]

can we please stop praising centerville. They are good, but it makes no difference. St. X has 2 guys who have scored top 8 at state, and 2 others who have been on relays. How many does centerville have? One, maybe two. Centerville is lacking in experience at the state level, and frankly they haven't performed at the state meet. Their district times are always faster than their state times, and we all know districts isn't state. I am impressed that Centerville is swimming well, and you are confident. I think you should look at you performance from the past state meets though. If you can get all of these guys to state, and have them swim faster there then at districts you have a chance, but so far that has not been the chance. If you can't do that, then you are as good as done.

X is bringing back Lawley and Columbus, both of whom are faster than centerville's guys. Not to mention Frankie Dyer who is also faster than whoever centerville is swimming in the back and 200 free. Schwartz, Lipari, and Alex Miller will also have a big impact in the meet, and centerville might match the breaststroke swims. Miller has the chance to be top 8 in the 500, and could also make it back in either the IM or the 200 free, which ever he swims. Also, centerville's relays may be fast, but I think St. X has the advantage in all 3 of the relays. Dyer will have a fast lead off, and should have the lead going into breast, schwartz can maintain the lead, and maybe even add to it, Louis will be faster than you give him credit, and he may not even swim the fly leg, and Lawley will be back faster than whoever centerville swims, so i really dont think centerville has a shot there. The 200 free goes to X as well. Lawley and Shoenling are both under 22, and it wouldn't surprise me if X was able to put 2 more guys under 22. The 400 free is not even a challenge. With Lawley Columbus and Dyer all being 45 or 46 i dont think they will be challenged. Swim for swim St. X has the advantage over Centerville. I am sorry, thats just the way it stacks up. Centerville is a good team, i just dont think they are good enough.

[ElksSWIM2010]

yeah i guess that says it...

[White_Men_Cant_Jump7]

Since we seem to be comparing teams. How about Moeller vs St.X? good match up. Maybe not at a duel meet. But definitely at state.

[ImPartial]

I agree with almost every point Xbomber098 makes. However, you put Lawley in all three relays...what two would you put him in and then, who do you put in the third instead of Lawley? Also, I think it would make more sense for Miller to swim the IM, since that has a greater chance of taking points away from StC...moving their 2nd/3rd/4th entry down a place.

[stxbomber999]

I agree with almost every point Xbomber098 makes. However, you put Lawley in all three relays...what two would you put him in and then, who do you put in the third instead of Lawley? Also, I think it would make more sense for Miller to swim the IM, since that has a greater chance of taking points away from StC...moving their 2nd/3rd/4th entry down a place.

Will Lawley wont swim the medley, Bret Scheonling will be the freestyler for X

[caswim]

I can see Centerville beating St. X in the district, but not in the state. X's relays always go significantly faster at the state then in the district...last year the medley dropped over 2 seconds while Centerville went up slightly.

Springer's 19.87 has to account for over a second of that. Barbiere dropped .02 Lipari .12 Smit .73 and Springer 1.2

I think it's a generalization to say X always goes significantly faster at the state. In years before they have different swimmers on the district relay than on the state and is tough to compare.

X doesn't generally go much faster from districts to states, at the most 50/50.

[climbingwalls24]

What's the difference between a belly smacker and a tummy thwacker?

where the person who uses it is from. like the difference between a hoedown and a hootenanny.

[ImPartial]

Now let's make a comparison between StX and StC in the medley

In the backstroke, here are best times from last season in the 100 back:

Whitaker 52.91
Dyer 53.01

How about we call that a tie after the backstroke leg?
Breaststroke splits from last year's final:

Mai 26.54
Schwartz 27.56

StC has a one second lead after breaststroke.
100 Fly times from last season:

Schuttinger 50.57
Louis 53.42

Let's be kind and say that Schuttinger only increases the lead by one second.
So after the fly, StC is ahead by two seconds. 50 free times:

StC? 23.95
Schoenling 21.95

And it's a tie!
Oh no. Do you think StC can find anyone that can swim just 1.99 seconds slower than Schoenling? Or to put it another way, can Schoenling swim two seconds faster than the StC freestyler in order to make up that two second gap after the fly leg?

[stxbomber999]

Springer's 19.87 has to account for over a second of that. Barbiere dropped .02 Lipari .12 Smit .73 and Springer 1.2

I think it's a generalization to say X always goes significantly faster at the state. In years before they have different swimmers on the district relay than on the state and is tough to compare.

X doesn't generally go much faster from districts to states, at the most 50/50.

No you're wrong, St.X usually swims the same relay at districts and states. The only time X doesn't swim the same guys is when there is a competition for a spot, like between Schwartz and Lipari last year in breast, but other than that they usually swim the same team so they can get used to doing starts off of each other.

Last year in the medley 3 of the 4 from districts swam at state, aswell as the 200 free, and in the 400 free it was the exact same team. Also X doesnt generally go faster at state than districts, and its not 50/50 St.X Always goes faster at state because they always have guys (like Barbiere, Mosko, ect.) who dont taper for districts and go much faster at state. (Also I'm not saying this is only st.x i'm sure the other top teams, like st.c, ua, university, and others, are the exact same way)


And impartial you're comment about the medley this year, I agree with you. I think X is the underdog in the 200 medley this year.

[thedutchman]

I think it's a generalization to say X always goes significantly faster at the state. In years before they have different swimmers on the district relay than on the state and is tough to compare.

X doesn't generally go much faster from districts to states, at the most 50/50.

Let's just look at recent history and compare X and Centerville's state qualifying times and state times.

2008:
Medley X 135.84 to 133.73 / Center. 136.21 to 136.90
200 X 125.23 to 123.50 / Center. 128.28 to 128.73
400 X 307.75 to 307.34 / Center. 315.98 to 315.55

2007:
Medley X 136.88 to 134.36 / Center. 138.82 to 139.59
200 X 126.79 to 126.27 / Center. 128.63 to 129.67
400 X 310.62 to 307.58 / Center. 315.90 to 318.39

2006:
Medley X 138.85 to 134.28 / Center. 138.30 to 140.44
200 X 127.15 to 126.35 / Center. 130.35 to 130.96
400 X 310.47 to 307.10 / Center. 316.58 to 319.58

2005:
Medley X 137.35 to 133.97 / Center. 134.99 to 137.28 (DQ)
200 X 127.62 to 128.27 / Center. 128.71 to 129.27 (DQ)
400 X 311.94 to 307.65 / Center. 312.36 to 315.61

Shall I go on or are the last 4 years when X's relays have always gone faster at states and over the same period Centerville's relays seldom have gone faster enough to prove my statement. Given this generalization I repeat, Centerville may beat X at the District, but I doubt they will at the state meet.

[Xbomber098]

Dutchman makes a very good point. Very few relays from the district seem to go faster between districts and state. X is one of the few schools who does. And I also agree that X is the underdog in the medley. And I appologize for putting Lawley in three relays, Shoenling will swim the free leg on the medley instead, and he has been 21.95 off a flat start.

[xbomberd08]

Springer's 19.87 has to account for over a second of that. Barbiere dropped .02 Lipari .12 Smit .73 and Springer 1.2

I think it's a generalization to say X always goes significantly faster at the state. In years before they have different swimmers on the district relay than on the state and is tough to compare.

X doesn't generally go much faster from districts to states, at the most 50/50.

As has already been stated X does generally go much faster at state...but I'll also give you a real life example.

In 2005 after districts UA was set to beat St. X at state by 80+ points, which is a pretty decent margin for the state meet. St. X ended up winning, in part because certain swimmers stepped up in the clutch, but mainly because UA's team was fully tapered for districts and didn't have much left at state. On the other hand, some guys for X tapered but a some of the top swimmers (French, Mosko...) were only rested for districts and then shaved and tapered at state.

The point is that St. X drops time at state mainly because that is the meet the swimmers are fully tapered for. Other teams either fully taper at districts in order to get to state or have their top swimmers that don't even fully taper for state because their focus is the championship meet for their club team another few weeks down the road.

[ElksSWIM2010]

i would think that nick would be on both free relays and not the medly since they are in great need to his 50free and 100free there

[stxbomber999]

i dont think so because the medley is their best relay next year, i dont know why they would weaken it

[caswim]

Let's just look at recent history and compare X and Centerville's state qualifying times and state times.

2008:
Medley X 135.84 to 133.73 / Center. 136.21 to 136.90
200 X 125.23 to 123.50 / Center. 128.28 to 128.73
400 X 307.75 to 307.34 / Center. 315.98 to 315.55

2007:
Medley X 136.88 to 134.36 / Center. 138.82 to 139.59
200 X 126.79 to 126.27 / Center. 128.63 to 129.67
400 X 310.62 to 307.58 / Center. 315.90 to 318.39

2006:
Medley X 138.85 to 134.28 / Center. 138.30 to 140.44
200 X 127.15 to 126.35 / Center. 130.35 to 130.96
400 X 310.47 to 307.10 / Center. 316.58 to 319.58

2005:
Medley X 137.35 to 133.97 / Center. 134.99 to 137.28 (DQ)
200 X 127.62 to 128.27 / Center. 128.71 to 129.27 (DQ)
400 X 311.94 to 307.65 / Center. 312.36 to 315.61

Shall I go on or are the last 4 years when X's relays have always gone faster at states and over the same period Centerville's relays seldom have gone faster enough to prove my statement. Given this generalization I repeat, Centerville may beat X at the District, but I doubt they will at the state meet.

It's easy for teams like X to go faster at States in relays. They're not challenged too much at the district level. Safe starts. Plus there are several years with different swimmers on the district and state relay. Also, most years only one or two swimmers have significant drops the other 50% or more swim the same relay split or only a little faster.

Take a look at X's individual times, most of x's team do not drop time from districts to prelims and prelims to finals in individual events. You can count on it every year, they'll be fast, but won't go any faster. They just hold their times and move up spots at states.

[Xbomber098]

Yes a majority of the time that is the case for X. Very few of their swimmers drop time from districts to state, but then again the entire state usually dosn't go any faster from district to state. In most cases the taper meet for most people is districts, state is just the bonus of a good swim at districts. The people who have the biggest impact on the state level are the ones who make it in the state meet without having tapered. That is one of the keys to winning the state meet. If you can get 3-4 guys to state without tapering them, and have the rest of your team hold the same times you are guaranteed to be in the top 3 team race. I think its safe to say that between those three top teams anyone has a shot to win, at that point of the game it comes down to starts, turns, and finishes.

[thedutchman]

The point is that St. X, and perhaps now SC, focus on the state meet, not the district. Caswim is right, swimmers who can hold their district time will move up at the state meet. St. X has done that for years with their secondary swimmers. And their good enough to win the district without a full taper for their top swimmers who do drop time at the state meet. The rise of SC, like UA a few years ago, Firestone before that and St. Francis back in the 90s will make the State Meet more exciting as it is competitive for the team title. Remarkably, St. X continues to sustain its excellence year in and year out as it outlasts its rivals who eventually fade.

[game-youlose]

dont get ahead of of yourselves x. remember what happened last year. you wouldn't want another tear fest

[stxbomber999]

dont get ahead of of yourselves x. remember what happened last year. you wouldn't want another tear fest

who's getting ahead of themselves? no one from x has said we are going to win, without a doubt. Really alls we've been doing is comparing centerville vs x in the medley relay.

[xbomberd08]

dont get ahead of of yourselves x. remember what happened last year. you wouldn't want another tear fest

No one on here was getting ahead of themselves, but maybe you were by making such assumptions?

[crusader007]

and you call just getting an all-american backstroker from new york(frankie dyer) out of nowhere cause u needed one and had no one at that position not recruiting?

I hear Frankie Dyer is going back to New York

[ElksSWIM2010]

yes he is....

who will swim the 100back for them now?

[Amazin']

along with the 100 back. what else will X do?
It really shakes up everything that they could have done for the year. Less possibilities for orders, and relay depth.
But, you have to believe that Mr. Brower will find a way.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Should make things alot closer in the district then between cville and X

[OhioSWIM002]

Elks is right...It appears as if X doesnt have a backstroker meaning these things could lead to Cville upset win...

(200 Medley) Centervilles Medley relay of Gammell-Litvinov-Schieman-(? Freestyle) will win districts

(200IM) Since the Division split things could be closer like the 200IM, if Gammell Litvinov and Glaser-Garbrick get close to Lipari and Schwartz

(200Free) Big advantage for X columbus and Lawly will get 1-2 and ty perkins gets top8

(50 Free) Schoeling places high possibly brian clark and tyler McDaniel getting top16

(100Fly) Glaser-Garbrick and Schieman will get Top3 with Hart in there somewhere while all X has is Kevin Louis...and tyler roberts is sure to place top10

(100Free) no returners either way..idk Sam Mitchell and Brian Clark for Centerville idk bout X

(500Free) ty perkins winning and columbus lawly and miller up there

(200free relay) Cville getting close to St X

(100 Back) i dont even know where X will get any backers while abeysang winning and gammell roberts and mitchell getting 2-3-4 easy

(100breast) Schieman clear leader it is up to Litvinov to beat either lipari or shcwartz or even both

(400Free relay) Cville getting close to X

(Diving) curtis fowler if he places top16....

[xbomberd08]

X isn't going to overlook districts, but I believe they will win.

[crusader007]

Elks is right...It appears as if X doesnt have a backstroker meaning these things could lead to Cville upset win...

(200 Medley) Centervilles Medley relay of Gammell-Litvinov-Schieman-(? Freestyle) will win districts

(200IM) Since the Division split things could be closer like the 200IM, if Gammell Litvinov and Glaser-Garbrick get close to Lipari and Schwartz

(200Free) Big advantage for X columbus and Lawly will get 1-2 and ty perkins gets top8

(50 Free) Schoeling places high possibly brian clark and tyler McDaniel getting top16

(100Fly) Glaser-Garbrick and Schieman will get Top3 with Hart in there somewhere while all X has is Kevin Louis...and tyler roberts is sure to place top10

(100Free) no returners either way..idk Sam Mitchell and Brian Clark for Centerville idk bout X

(500Free) ty perkins winning and columbus lawly and miller up there

(200free relay) Cville getting close to St X

(100 Back) i dont even know where X will get any backers while abeysang winning and gammell roberts and mitchell getting 2-3-4 easy

(100breast) Schieman clear leader it is up to Litvinov to beat either lipari or shcwartz or even both

(400Free relay) Cville getting close to X

(Diving) curtis fowler if he places top16....


somehow everyone overlooks all other teams except cville and x
and no way is lipari going to lose to Litvinov or maybe even schieman

[ImPartial]

somehow everyone overlooks all other teams except cville and x
and no way is lipari going to lose to Litvinov or maybe even schieman

You're right. Why don't you share some opinions on Moeller's chances in the medley relay, IM, 100/200 free, breast, 400 relay?


(500Free) ty perkins winning and ...


I suppose that could happen if Perkins shaves/tapers for district and EVERYbody else tapers for state. But I think there could be at least five guys under 4:40 at district making it an all-out race: Vigar, Perkins, Columbus, Lawley, Miller, Buchanan, Kolwyck, etc.

Is Glaser-Garbrick the fastest flyer on Centerville now? That could mean moving Schieman to the free leg of the medley.

[msjega]

somehow everyone overlooks all other teams except cville and x
and no way is lipari going to lose to Litvinov or maybe even schieman

No Way Schieman can destroy Lipari and Litvinov will beat him to no doubt and Dan Glaser-Garbrick is not the fastest flyer either plus Schiemans 50 fly is incredibly fast.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Moeller?....I see it this way

Relays-How will they use Krone,Albers,Koenig,Schwab,Sanders on all three relays? would they Stack two and throw away another?

200IM-Albers is only one swimmer vs the Centerville 3

200Free-Krone will contend for the top but perkins will still be up there

50Free-Moeller big time

100fly- glaser-garbrick and schieman will outscore sanders easily also tyler roberts will score good points

100free- Krone wins moeller big time

500Free- Perkins top3 maybe wins and moeller no one

100back- cville has potential to go 2-3-4

100breast-regardless if albers wins Litvinov and Schieman combined will outscore him easily

[Amazin']

Moeller?....I see it this way

Relays-How will they use Krone,Albers,Koenig,Schwab,Sanders on all three relays? would they Stack two and throw away another?

200IM-Albers is only one swimmer vs the Centerville 3

50Free-Moeller big time

100free- Krone wins moeller big time

100back- cville has potential to go 2-3-4

100breast-regardless if albers wins Litvinov and Schieman combined will outscore him easily

Alright. Remember Moeller has a good freshman class that will make a difference this year. Josephson will make an immediate impact on the medaly relay, so it wouldn't exactly be "throwing away". Also, even though Moeller is "only 4 seniors and a sophomore", there will be more underclassman that step up and make a difference this year. Plus, Don't relays scored double regular? so it would cancel out some events where moeller is weak. Since no doubt, the 200 free and 400 free relays could easily win.

And, there is also St. X. Even though you have "3" good IMer's, How do you figure that they will conquer anyone else at the meet. X's Lipari, Schwartz, and Conway will but up there as high as any other team. To breast, Lipari is a monster. There is no denying that. I just would like to find someone else who averages 1:01 in practice... But, year in and year out, what kind of St. X class doesn't have freshman that make an immediate impact? There are a ton of unknowns that the District will be waiting to see from the first meets of the season.

Also, would you please elaborate your 200 IM and 100 Back people? sounds fishy.

But yet again, All we ever get out of this chat is that Centerville is the best thing since sliced bread. No matter what happens, they will always win.
So just remember. even though they'll be 3rd in SW Ohio, they are always number one on yappi.

[OhioSWIM002]

i think there backers are Mark Gammell Sam Mitchell and Tyler Roberts

IMers are Dan Glaser-Garbrick Mark Gammell and Maxim Litvinov

and wut is Moellers medley lineup?

[ElksSWIM2010]

Very True about Moellers relays...but centerville also has relays that will be up there...its not like centerville wont score and points on free relays...

[thedutchman]

I expect Centerville to finish as runner up in the District with Moeller 3rd. I also think that Moeller will be closer in score to Centerville, than Centerville will be to St. X.

[stxbomber999]

No Way Schieman can destroy Lipari and Litvinov will beat him to no doubt and Dan Glaser-Garbrick is not the fastest flyer either plus Schiemans 50 fly is incredibly fast.

still think Schieman will destroy Lipari is at 1:00.2, and i'm pretty sure Schieman is only at 1:00.8.

Maybe all of you Centerville fans should settle down and stop saying you're going to be god's gift to swimming this year, and actually let the season play out a little

[ImPartial]

Moeller?....I see it this way

Relays-How will they use Krone,Albers,Koenig,Schwab,Sanders on all three relays? would they Stack two and throw away another?


Alright. Remember Moeller has a good freshman class that will make a difference this year. Josephson will make an immediate impact on the medaly relay, so it wouldn't exactly be "throwing away". Also, even though Moeller is "only 4 seniors and a sophomore", there will be more underclassman that step up and make a difference this year. Plus, Don't relays scored double regular? so it would cancel out some events where moeller is weak. Since no doubt, the 200 free and 400 free relays could easily win.


Here is one way Moeller could swim its relays. These are results from their recent meet at Sycamore:

https://www.vicid.com/~sycamors/user_files/367/0/moemnd12-09.doc


medley
1 CAMO A 1:44.22 8
1) Koenig, Kevin W SR 2) Foos, Patrick R JR
3) Albers, Joe C SR 4) Schwab, Kevin P SO
26.65 30.20 24.80 22.57

200
1 CAMO A 1:32.94 8
1) Koenig, Kevin W SR 2) Krone, Michael F SR
3) Sanders, David V SR 4) Schwab, Kevin P SO
23.71 24.39 25.36 19.48

400
1 CAMO A 3:30.06 8
1) Krone, Michael F SR 2) Sanders, David V SR
3) Foos, Patrick R JR 4) Albers, Joe C SR
25.54 52.04 24.84 52.68
24.76 53.77 24.11 51.57


I have to wonder if that 19.48 split in the 200 free is accurate.

[xbomberd08]

I have to wonder if that 19.48 split in the 200 free is accurate.

I'd think not since Sanders apparently went a 25. I'd say they both probably went 22-mid.

[ElksSWIM2010]

Schieman and Litvinov went their 1:00s in mid october....nonetheless...the sharks and raiders have MAKOs this weekend where they are on some rest so lets see what they go then...also ty perkins is in nashville meet

[ImPartial]

Some rest? Why? Other teams will do regular doubles all week and a morning practice today before Makos this evening. One philosophy is to train hard all season with no mini-tapers, and swim all meets like it's a warmdown from that day's practice...and save the taper for end of season when it means something. How many mini-tapers does your team do during the season?

[mikeruns26.2]

You're exactly right. But St. X is just about the only school in the state that trains as a team. All the other schools allow their swimmers to train with their club team and just show up to meets. The reason St. X has kids step up every year is because of the sense of teamwork.

No. This is completely not true at all. Do you honestly believe this? I swam for Fairmont to help train in the off season for XC and track and we didn't let our club swimmers just show up to meets. Club swimmers swam with us and got no special treatment. And yes I know we were not a very good team but we extremely close knit. And when you say that St. X kids step up because of a sense of team work is not true except in relays. When I competed in individual events in track and swimming I wasn't thinking of my teammates. I was thinking about getting across that line as fast as possible for myself and lowering my personal times. I know that might sound selfish but it's true for 99% of people.

[ElksSWIM2010]

thats the only meet we rest for until districts...

[ImPartial]

At some home high school meets, the club team practices in the extra lanes during the meet. I have seen a club swimmer finish a practice set, walk over a couple lanes, swim his event, then return to the club practice for the next set. Can you imagine that in any other sport?

[ElksSWIM2010]

swimming recuires a lot more devotion than running...

[mikeruns26.2]

swimming recuires a lot more devotion than running...

This is all based on opinion. They both require a huge amount of devotion. I have done both and I think that running is slightly more difficult. That is just my opinion though and I am not saying that is the same for everyone. And I think that they require the same amount of devotion depending on how far one wants to go in the sport. But you statement means nothing unless you have completed atleast one season full of cross country which is from june to november.

[mikeruns26.2]

At some home high school meets, the club team practices in the extra lanes during the meet. I have seen a club swimmer finish a practice set, walk over a couple lanes, swim his event, then return to the club practice for the next set. Can you imagine that in any other sport?

Yea my team did this on a few occasions. But in running there is a lot of the same things. For instance, the first practice of track my junior year we went to the track and ran a two mile time trial. When we crossed the line our coach had no stop watch in his hand. He said good warmup, now get ready for a mile time trial in 5 minutes. When we finished the mile he had a stopwatch so we thought it was over and he again said good warmup, get ready for an 800m time trial in 5. Then after that it was over. But this is the same coach that made us run 4 events in a dual meet. And four is the max in track and dual meets go fast so little rest. And he gave us full workouts after our races were done. So yes, the same happens in running as well.

[stxbomber999]

not that that isnt interesting, but can we stop talking about running on the swimmming forum, and also about your comment on swimming individual races for your self and not your team, thats were st.x differs from most teams. Since X has team goals( state champions) as well as each individuals goals, guys on X's team go into races thinking, how can i help the team, or thinking what they need to do in order to help the team

[Amazin']

Yea. Thanks for Posting this On the St. Xavier SWIMMING page.... :wallbang:

[mikeruns26.2]

Yea sorry. I know I know. It's a big deal. Sorry to all I offended by talking about running on a SWIMMING page. :wallbang:

[xbomberd08]

No. This is completely not true at all. Do you honestly believe this? I swam for Fairmont to help train in the off season for XC and track and we didn't let our club swimmers just show up to meets. Club swimmers swam with us and got no special treatment. And yes I know we were not a very good team but we extremely close knit. And when you say that St. X kids step up because of a sense of team work is not true except in relays. When I competed in individual events in track and swimming I wasn't thinking of my teammates. I was thinking about getting across that line as fast as possible for myself and lowering my personal times. I know that might sound selfish but it's true for 99% of people.

St. X is the only team in Cincinnati that trains as a whole team, club swimmers and all. As for the rest of the state I know people at some other high schools around the state and the general consensus is that club swimmers train with their club, not their high school. I didn't say St. X was the only team, I said just about which means I know there are a few other teams that do, obviously Fairmont is one of them.

Your comment about being extremely close knit proves my point. It seems that St. X is more close knit than most other teams because there's no obvious division or disparity between club swimmers and nonclub swimmers.

And you don't seem to understand what I mean by teamwork. When swimming an individual event you aren't swimming just for yourself, you're swimming for you team as well. Of course you want to do well for yourself but you also want to do well in order to score more points for your team, especially in big meets.

[xswimmer100]

the fact of the matter is this. st x is not good this year. at best, they are a fourth place team in the state of ohio. as far as i see it, they are not even the best team in their own league. while albers may not be that good, koenig, krone, sanders and schwab are all very good swimmers who will carry moeller to the gcl title this year.

[stxbomber999]

i said this on another page but i'm gonna say it again to make sure you see it, stop talking you're only making yourself look stupid, everything you have said you have failed to back up with any sort of credible evidence, it seems like you just have something against st.x, and Joe Albers for some weird reason

[mikeruns26.2]

The fact of the matter is that this forum has turned into the St. X swimmers talking about how good they are and arguing when someone disagrees. This whole topic was just about St. X which seems really dumb to me. But that's just my opinion.

[xswimmer100]

i would like to hear stxbomber999 respect other peoples opinions. this is a forum dedicated to discussion and NOT shooting down everyone elses opinion b/c it does not agree with yours. everybody likes to give st x an automatic championship. all i'm saying is that they are going to have some extremely tough competition in their own GCL league this year. st x should not automatically be "crowned" champions every year. this year, more than last year, they are going to have to work harder to be the best team in cincinnati, let alone in the state of ohio.

[White_Men_Cant_Jump7]

I found something interesting on Cincinnati.com

OH Boys Swimming, Division I: Week 2
Rank Team Points
1 St. Xavier 19 (1)
1 Moeller 19 (1)
3 Oak Hills 14
3 Fairfield 14
5 LaSalle 11
5 Lakota West 11
7 Mason 9
8 Milford 5
9 Lakota East 3
10 Kings 2
10 Sycamore 2
12 Elder 1

Moeller is tied with St.X in rankings. Although it is only week two of swimming i believe that moeller will be a serious contender at GCL's and State. X will probably have to put their top line up in at GCL. You also have to consider that some swimmers from lasalle will take away point from X and Moeller too. X and Moeller should be a good match up this year.

[stxbomber999]

i would like to hear stxbomber999 respect other peoples opinions. this is a forum dedicated to discussion and NOT shooting down everyone elses opinion b/c it does not agree with yours. everybody likes to give st x an automatic championship. all i'm saying is that they are going to have some extremely tough competition in their own GCL league this year. st x should not automatically be "crowned" champions every year. this year, more than last year, they are going to have to work harder to be the best team in cincinnati, let alone in the state of ohio.

i would like to hear respect other people in general. what kind of person get on a messaga board and starts trashing other people for no reason. i dont really care that you said st.x isnt that good, its nothing that hasnt been said before. My only problem with you is that you singled out one swimmer, and said he wasnt good, when he is clearly on of the best swimmers in the state. Believe me i know how good moeller is, i know most of the guys you listed personally, including Joe, and when you start saying theyre trash, that pisses me off.

[xswimmer100]

stxbomber999, i am sorry to have offended you if i criticized one of your friends. however, this is a forum of discussion. if you happen to know many swimmers on other teams, you should perhaps abstain from talking in these threads. i fear that unlike other persons opinions, yours will be biased. i personally do not know these swimmers. i am only going off of my memory at seeing them swim in meets and looking at results with their high school and year round clubs. you are way too involved. please, remember this is a friendly discussion - NOT a discussion aimed at standing up for your friends.

[floaties101]

I found something interesting on Cincinnati.com

OH Boys Swimming, Division I: Week 2
Rank Team Points
1 St. Xavier 19 (1)
1 Moeller 19 (1)
3 Oak Hills 14
3 Fairfield 14
5 LaSalle 11
5 Lakota West 11
7 Mason 9
8 Milford 5
9 Lakota East 3
10 Kings 2
10 Sycamore 2
12 Elder 1

Moeller is tied with St.X in rankings. Although it is only week two of swimming i believe that moeller will be a serious contender at GCL's and State. X will probably have to put their top line up in at GCL. You also have to consider that some swimmers from lasalle will take away point from X and Moeller too. X and Moeller should be a good match up this year.

what are these based on?
tell me how west is worse then oak hills and fairfield
and mason worse then all of them
I think we may have to question the credibility of this poll

[xswimmer100]

that poll is a great find. yes, the validity must be questioned. but at least they got the poll correct in having moeller and st x as the top two teams in cincinnati - because they definitely are.

[stxbomber999]

Oak Hills could be pretty good. They return their entire 200 free relay that got third last year, and between st.x and st.c only one of eight swimmers comes back, so they could do very well in the sprint events

[White_Men_Cant_Jump7]

the fact of the matter is this. st x is not good this year. at best, they are a fourth place team in the state of ohio. as far as i see it, they are not even the best team in their own league. while albers may not be that good, koenig, krone, sanders and schwab are all very good swimmers who will carry moeller to the gcl title this year.

I would like to say that to win GCL you need more than 4 freestylers. Yes koenig, krone, sanders and schwab are very good, they can only swim free. Albers offers a variety of events on the other hand. Albers will win the 200 IM and 100 Breast this year at GCL and with out those wins tell me how Moeller would have a shot at winning GCL? To say albers is not a good swimmer is probably one of the best jokes i have heard all year. He is just as good as the other 4 freestyle swimmers in all of their events. Moeller needs albers to win. Albers is good.

[floaties101]

But sprinting is it for them
thats what ... 3 events
that won't be able to carry a whole team
and does anyone know who fairfield has this year after losing Stewart?

[stxbomber999]

Yeah I dont know a thing about Fairfield

[Amazin']

Tyler Nuss - possibly 2 IM, 500 free or 100 breast.
Andrew Adams - 200 free and 500 free
Carter Adams - a freshman that can do many different events. Notable times are 56 in 100 fly and 50 in 100 free
John Carter - good freshman for 100 back

Those are just some headliners

[thedutchman]

X dominated the Big 8. Centerville had a good meet finishing 3. But for those who think Centerville's going to topple X this year, check out the results:
http://www.firestoneswimming.org/results/2008_2009/Big%208.pdf

[ElksSWIM2010]

yes good job to st x...i underestimated their backstroke abilities especially will lawley in the 50bk...a 24...

a lot closer than last year at least....the meet was in terms of centerville vs X

[Amazin']

you can't deny it.. X is looking good for this year. all the question marks. starting to be answered

[floaties101]

putting lawley on the medly relay takes him off a free relay though
which one 2 or 4
that might open the door for other teams
(even with lawley i dont think they can beat ST. charels)

[xbomberd08]

The fact of the matter is that this forum has turned into the St. X swimmers talking about how good they are and arguing when someone disagrees. This whole topic was just about St. X which seems really dumb to me. But that's just my opinion.


Well this does seem to be a thread entitled 'St. Xavier Swimming 2009' so it shouldn't be surprising that the topic of discussion has a bit to do with St. X. And if you don't like the topic, don't click on the thread.

[ImPartial]

X put Lawley and Columbus both on the medley and 400 relays at the Big Eight, but then put both on the 200 free relay at the Canton invite Saturday. The result was best times Friday and then much slower on Saturday

Medley
1:37.89 Lawley Lipari Columbus Louis (Friday)
24.98 27.54 23.62 21.75
1:40.85 Knight Lipari Dennis Lawley (Saturday)
26.61 27.82 24.78 21.64

400
3:11.39 Miller Louis Columbus Lawley
49.42 48.08 47.59 46.30
3:17.99 Columbus Miller Schoenling Louis
48.78 48.84 50.78 49.59

Friday, that left them with a weaker line-up in the 200 free relay at 1:31 which placed 4th, behind StC and Centerville. Putting Columbus/Lawley in the 200 free on Saturday resulted in a 1:28.96, but that allowed Firestone to win the Medley. As of today, it looks like X can put together two top relays, but will struggle in the third.

StC seems to have the same problem. At the Big Eight, the 200 medley and 200 free had 2 second place finishes, while the 400 was weaker and finished fifth (0.16 sec ahead of Centerville's B team).

[ElksSWIM2010]

Nick Schuttinger was not swimming and he would have been on the relays
so St .Chalres deserves more credit

[ImPartial]

IF Schuttinger becomes eligible before the end of season, then obviously, StC relays would improve. Who knows if he will become eligible or not? Is it possible mid-semester or only after end of semester? And exactly when is end of semester for StC?

[DiveCoach]

St. X is the only team in Cincinnati that trains as a whole team, club swimmers and all. As for the rest of the state I know people at some other high schools around the state and the general consensus is that club swimmers train with their club, not their high school. I didn't say St. X was the only team,

I doubt this seriously, swimmers nor divers. I have been involved with high school swimming and diving for over 25 years, and I know of no high school that has this, gets this, etc. There are always ways to get around this technically. However, in actual practice, St. X is probably just like all the other schools, the club swimmers swim with their clubs until they have to swim with their high school teams per OHSAA requirements.

[thedutchman]

St. X is the only team in Cincinnati that trains as a whole team, club swimmers and all. As for the rest of the state I know people at some other high schools around the state and the general consensus is that club swimmers train with their club, not their high school. I didn't say St. X was the only team,
I doubt this seriously, swimmers nor divers. I have been involved with high school swimming and diving for over 25 years, and I know of no high school that has this, gets this, etc. There are always ways to get around this technically. However, in actual practice, St. X is probably just like all the other schools, the club swimmers swim with their clubs until they have to swim with their high school teams per OHSAA requirements.

UA's high school team and club team are one in the same. When UA club swimmers reach high school they must change clubs if they don't go to UA. The high school coaches are also the senior club coaches.

I think that xbomber is correct that St. X is pretty much unique in that other than a situation like UA no other team has their club swimmers swimming in during the high school season.

I don't quite understand DiveCoach's comment. OHSAA requires that club swimmers swim high school meets only after they swim in their first high school meet of the season. They must stop swimming club meets a certain number of days before the sectional meets. Otherwise, swimmers may train anywhere they wish and swim anywhere they wish. Margo Geer is a good example of that. Sometimes a swimmer can get permission to swim in a USA meet after he has swam in high school meets. But those are special situations that the swimmer must petition the OHSAA in advance for permission.

[WrongPerson]

I doubt this seriously, swimmers nor divers. I have been involved with high school swimming and diving for over 25 years, and I know of no high school that has this, gets this, etc. There are always ways to get around this technically. However, in actual practice, St. X is probably just like all the other schools, the club swimmers swim with their clubs until they have to swim with their high school teams per OHSAA requirements.

Unless something has happened the last couple of years, '08s comment is true. Everyone at X from the bottom to the top trains with with the team everyday the OHSAA allows for practice.

[xbomberd08]

I doubt this seriously, swimmers nor divers. I have been involved with high school swimming and diving for over 25 years, and I know of no high school that has this, gets this, etc. There are always ways to get around this technically. However, in actual practice, St. X is probably just like all the other schools, the club swimmers swim with their clubs until they have to swim with their high school teams per OHSAA requirements.


There is no OHSAA requirement that says you have to swim with your high school, so most swimmers continue training with their club team and just swim high school meets. There are no OHSAA rules when it comes to who you have to practice with during the high school season. St. X is unique in that, unlike other high schools, the club swimmers do train with their high school during the high school season and not with their club.