Brian Howell

[mgunz26]

I've heard he's been doing pretty good lately but not much more than that, dose anyone know anything about him:shrug:

[ImPartial]

Look for him at www.swimmeet.com. His times are listed in several events in the Southwest District rankings. Also, he is participating in the Southwest Classic meet this weekend and the results will be posted at swimmeet.com.

[ImPartial]

Hmm, if you go by the Enquirer coverage of the SW Classic, Brian Howell must not have done anything worth mentioning. The article was primarly about Jim Barbiere. All Howell did was win two races, including beating Barbiere in the 200 backstroke, plus two second place finishes. He also had three times that were top ten all-time finishes for the meet.

Here is what I come up with for the top point-getters in individual events according to the results at swimmeet.com:

74, Brian Howell; 1st: 200 IM, 200 back, 2nd: 500 free, 400 IM
68, Nathan Butler; 1st: 100 breast 200 breast, 4th: 200 IM, 6th: 100 fly
60, Brent Hitchcock; 1st: 400IM, 500 free, 1650 free

73, Danielle Jansen; 1st: 200 free, 100 fly, 2nd: 200 back, 3rd: 200 IM
70, Margaret Fish; 1st: 400IM, 500 free, 2nd: 200IM, 6th 200 back
66, Sarah Tanner; 2nd: 50 free, 100 fly, 200 fly 4th: 200IM

57, Barbiere

It makes you wonder if it must be Enquirer policy to make their best effort to find something/anything to write about a St X swimmer and ignore the rest of the field when it comes to swimming coverage.

[osuprouddad]

A few additional items ..........Jamie Barrett (Dayton Raiders) scored 70 points - 1st-200IM; 2nd-400IM; 2nd-100back; 3rd-200back. She is the sleeper in Girls D1 this year but will be the queen in 2009.


A few other boys were next to Jimmy B with total points ..... Chambers (56) and Langford (54) ....

Hitchcock and Howell are the class of Ohio swimming - a few others are in the next tier ........

don't forget - Spencer Hewes missed this meet .......

[stxbomber999]

Jimmy is no doubt on the same level as Howell and Hitchcock

It was not mentioned for some reason that while Brian out scored Jimmy 74-57, Brian swam 4 individual events while Jimmy only swam 3. Jimmy was a second place away from tying him, or a firstplace away from out scoring him, and if Jimmy had swum the 200 free like he usually does he would have won that aswell

Oh and on the 400 free relay at classic Jimmy and Brian dove in less than a half second apart and Jimmy beat him

[ImPartial]

Here is an article about the SW Classic with a bit less bias than the Enquirer:

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16758.asp

According to "The World's Leading Independent Resource for Swimming", Brent Hitchcock and Brian Howell are 4-star recruits. Nathan Butler and Jim Barbiere are 3-star recruits. According to this independent source (not on a soapbox for any given alma mater), Jimmy is NOT considered on the same level as Hitchcock and Howell.

[stxbomber999]

I'm just saying, that from watching both of them swim for the past few years, i would put them both on the same level as swimmers.

If someone asked who was better i would have to ask what event, because some events Brian would win hands down and others would have Jimmy as the definate favorite.

Also just a comment about the ratings, that is based on some events in a USA or YMCA meet, such as 400IM and the 200s, which arent in high school. In a high school format Jimmy is faster than Brian in 6 of the 8 events. While on the other hand if you add those longer swims Brian has the advantage, and Brian is probably a better long course swimmer as well. But since this is a high school forum and we're talking about high school swimming saying Jimmy and Brian are on the same level is actually a compliment to Brian.

[osuprouddad]

I agree with all points - but, at the end of the day - Brent Hitchcock is still the TOP DOG .......southwest, northwest, central, or northeast.

Northeast - Tommy Inwood
Northwest - Lincoln Fahrbach
Central - Tim Collins
Southwest - Brent Hitchcock

Howell and Barbiere are a close 2nd/3rd but easily in the top 5 of Ohio.

Bottom line .......NCAA teams come to Ohio to 'fish' for talent. Bigger problem - most of the 'big fish' leave the state - except Lincoln.







++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

I'm just saying, that from watching both of them swim for the past few years, i would put them both on the same level as swimmers.

If someone asked who was better i would have to ask what event, because some events Brian would win hands down and others would have Jimmy as the definate favorite.

Also just a comment about the ratings, that is based on some events in a USA or YMCA meet, such as 400IM and the 200s, which arent in high school. In a high school format Jimmy is faster than Brian in 6 of the 8 events. While on the other hand if you add those longer swims Brian has the advantage, and Brian is probably a better long course swimmer as well. But since this is a high school forum and we're talking about high school swimming saying Jimmy and Brian are on the same level is actually a compliment to Brian.

[echo13]

I'm just saying, that from watching both of them swim for the past few years, i would put them both on the same level as swimmers.

If someone asked who was better i would have to ask what event, because some events Brian would win hands down and others would have Jimmy as the definate favorite.

Also just a comment about the ratings, that is based on some events in a USA or YMCA meet, such as 400IM and the 200s, which arent in high school. In a high school format Jimmy is faster than Brian in 6 of the 8 events. While on the other hand if you add those longer swims Brian has the advantage, and Brian is probably a better long course swimmer as well. But since this is a high school forum and we're talking about high school swimming saying Jimmy and Brian are on the same level is actually a compliment to Brian.


This is one of the few intelligent arguments I've ever heard you make.:)

[stxbomber999]

This is one of the few intelligent arguments I've ever heard you make.:)

stop talking and leave me alone

[BLUEnGOLD08]

On the main topic of Brian Howell, i would not be surprised to see him in the Olympics in 5 years. I know what i'm talking about because my father was in the same boat Brian is in. He had a great career at Fairfield HS and was offered scholarships and a shot at the Olympics. but again, i would say that Brian will win state in atleast one event again, then when he's swimming for the Gators, get his shot in the Olympics

[ImPartial]

But since this is a high school forum and we're talking about high school swimming saying Jimmy and Brian are on the same level is actually a compliment to Brian.

Wrong. They are both top-notch swimmers. But the above would be like saying the Bengals and Patriots are on the same level is a compliment to the Patriots.

Here is the swimmingworld ranking system:
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16614.asp

4-star: Qualifying Mark (Last year's slowest qualifying time per event at DI NCAAs) and/or Multiple B Cuts and/or 1 U.S. Olympic Trials Cut

3-star: B Cut and/or USA Swimming Junior National Cut

Here are a bunch of high school swimmers impartially ranked (meaning based on actual times and not parochial opinion):
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16684.asp

4-star:
Brian Howell Olympic Trials cut in 200IM
Brent Hitchcock Multiple B cuts in 500 and 1650 free

3-star:
Jimmy Barbiere junior cut
Nathan Butler junior cut
Tim Collins junior cut
Lincoln Fahrbach junior cut
Thomas Inwood junior cut

If you want to focus on high school events, it makes sense that an olympic trail cut in the 200IM makes for a higher ranking than a junior or even multiple junior cuts.

If you compare apples to apples, rather than comparing off-events, how about comparing Howell vs Barbiere in the 200 backstroke. I assume backstroke is Barbiere's best stroke. Howell beat Barbiere in the 200 backstroke.

If you want to compare against the best all-time at the Southwest Classic, which is where this thread began, at THIS YEAR'S MEET, Hitchcock had a best time ever in the 400 IM (oh my gosh, better than Mosko), top-2 time in the 1650, and top-4 time in the 500. Howell had a top-3 time in the 200IM (oh my gosh, better than Joe Hudepohl) and a top-7 time in the 400IM. Butler had a top-2 time in the 100 breaststroke and a top-2 time in the 200 breaststroke. Barbiere had one Honor Roll swim, a top-9 time in the 100 backstroke.

osuprouddad said it pretty well. I suppose it is debatable whether an olympic cut is better than multiple B cuts. But it is clear the difference between the 4-star grouping and the 3-star grouping. If someone gets an olympic cut during sectional/district/state, then give them another star.

[echo13]

Wrong. They are both top-notch swimmers. But the above would be like saying the Bengals and Patriots are on the same level is a compliment to the Patriots.

Here is the swimmingworld ranking system:
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16614.asp

4-star: Qualifying Mark (Last year's slowest qualifying time per event at DI NCAAs) and/or Multiple B Cuts and/or 1 U.S. Olympic Trials Cut

3-star: B Cut and/or USA Swimming Junior National Cut

Here are a bunch of high school swimmers impartially ranked (meaning based on actual times and not parochial opinion):
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16684.asp

4-star:
Brian Howell Olympic Trials cut in 200IM
Brent Hitchcock Multiple B cuts in 500 and 1650 free

3-star:
Jimmy Barbiere junior cut
Nathan Butler junior cut
Tim Collins junior cut
Lincoln Fahrbach junior cut
Thomas Inwood junior cut

If you want to focus on high school events, it makes sense that an olympic trail cut in the 200IM makes for a higher ranking than a junior or even multiple junior cuts.

If you compare apples to apples, rather than comparing off-events, how about comparing Howell vs Barbiere in the 200 backstroke. I assume backstroke is Barbiere's best stroke. Howell beat Barbiere in the 200 backstroke.

If you want to compare against the best all-time at the Southwest Classic, which is where this thread began, at THIS YEAR'S MEET, Hitchcock had a best time ever in the 400 IM (oh my gosh, better than Mosko), top-2 time in the 1650, and top-4 time in the 500. Howell had a top-3 time in the 200IM (oh my gosh, better than Joe Hudepohl) and a top-7 time in the 400IM. Butler had a top-2 time in the 100 breaststroke and a top-2 time in the 200 breaststroke. Barbiere had one Honor Roll swim, a top-9 time in the 100 backstroke.

osuprouddad said it pretty well. I suppose it is debatable whether an olympic cut is better than multiple B cuts. But it is clear the difference between the 4-star grouping and the 3-star grouping. If someone gets an olympic cut during sectional/district/state, then give them another star.


Don't contradict yourself so much. You talk about not comparing off events then throw out Joe Hudepohl in the 200 IM what's up with that (heck Mosko in the 400IM is almost a stretch as well)? You also use the 200 Back to try and refute the idea that Howell is the much better high school swimmer, yet the 200 back is not a high school event. I know both Jimmy and Brian very well and wouldn't chose between the two if you asked me to. Brian has a trial cut in the 200 IM, however that was long course, and Jimmy has 2 individual state titles. Who's better is your opinion, but I'd tkae either one.

[stxbomber999]

Impartial, i do agree with many of the points you said, but your last post actually supported what i said earlier.
You said Brian is a 4 star because he has a trial cut, I agree. I said Brian was the better long course swimmer, and is you use events outside of high school Brian looks better
Also you said look at head to head, while Brian did win the 200 back(while were a fast suit jammer and Jimmy wearing his St.X speedo) i also said earlier in the 400 Free relay Jimmy and Brian went in at almost the same time, but Jimmy came out ahead.
Which brings be back to the point that Jimmy is faster than Brian in 6 of the 8 events, and saying Jimmy and Brian are equal high school swimmers actually favors Brian (but just to make it clear i am saying they are equal, not that Jimmy is better)

[ImPartial]

You also use the 200 Back to try and refute the idea that Howell is the much better high school swimmer, yet the 200 back is not a high school event.

These are not my opinions:

Swimmingworld's 4-star recruit rating
is higher than
Swimmingworld's 3-star recruit rating

top time
is higher than
top-2 time
is higher than
top-3 time
is higher than
top-4 time
is higher than
top-7 time
is higher than
top-9 time

1:53.48
is faster than
1:55.35

74 points
is more than
68 points
is more than
60 points
is more than
57 points


I am not trying to state an opinion on whether swimmer-a is a better high school swimmer than swimmer-b. That opinion is being stated by others. The results above are reprints of actual results from an actual meet, not speculations on what-ifs such as...

if Jonny had done this
or
if Jonny hadn't done that
or
if Jonny had worn his fastskin
or
if the sun hadn't got in Jonny's eyes

I suppose we should introduce a measurement device that better represents the intangible element that some would say makes an X swimmer "better" than someone else, say maybe the SXecond. When converting a swimmer's time from seconds to SXeconds, a regular swimmer is SXeconds=1.0 x seconds. But for a StX swimmer, SXeconds=0.95 x seconds.

For example, 1:55.35 seconds for a StX swimmer converts to 1:49.5825 SXeconds. Therefore, when using SXeconds, a 1:55.35 second (=1:49.5825 SXeconds) swim by StX is better than a 1:53.48 second (=1:53.48 SXeconds) swim by someone else. Makes perfect sxense!

Just for reference, I don't have any affiliation with nor attachment to the Marlins, StX, Moeller, Howell, Turpin, Butler, Hitchcock, Dayton Raiders, nor any of their coaches nor Swimmingworld.

[echo13]

These are not my opinions:

Swimmingworld's 4-star recruit rating
is higher than
Swimmingworld's 3-star recruit rating

top time
is higher than
top-2 time
is higher than
top-3 time
is higher than
top-4 time
is higher than
top-7 time
is higher than
top-9 time

1:53.48
is faster than
1:55.35

74 points
is more than
68 points
is more than
60 points
is more than
57 points


I am not trying to state an opinion on whether swimmer-a is a better high school swimmer than swimmer-b. That opinion is being stated by others. The results above are reprints of actual results from an actual meet, not speculations on what-ifs such as...

if Jonny had done this
or
if Jonny hadn't done that
or
if Jonny had worn his fastskin
or
if the sun hadn't got in Jonny's eyes

I suppose we should introduce a measurement device that better represents the intangible element that some would say makes an X swimmer "better" than someone else, say maybe the SXecond. When converting a swimmer's time from seconds to SXeconds, a regular swimmer is SXeconds=1.0 x seconds. But for a StX swimmer, SXeconds=0.95 x seconds.

For example, 1:55.35 seconds for a StX swimmer converts to 1:49.5825 SXeconds. Therefore, when using SXeconds, a 1:55.35 second (=1:49.5825 SXeconds) swim by StX is better than a 1:53.48 second (=1:53.48 SXeconds) swim by someone else. Makes perfect sxense!

Just for reference, I don't have any affiliation with nor attachment to the Marlins, StX, Moeller, Howell, Turpin, Butler, Hitchcock, Dayton Raiders, nor any of their coaches nor Swimmingworld.

I'm not saying either is the better swimmer. They are both extremely accomplished swimmers. I think we were both arguing different things here. Who's the better high school swimmer versus better overall. Both have bright futures ahead of them, and hopefully both do well. (I guess we I'll overlook the fact that they chose IU and Florida).